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Old 06-08-2005, 09:30 PM   #1
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Truth Part 1

Love for the truth has been a favorite theme of Pope John Paul II. “Let us seek the truth about Christ and about his Church!...Let us love the Truth, proclaim the Truth! O Christ, show us the Truth! Be the only Truth for us!” Agenda for the Third Millennium Pope John Paul II

The Holy Father’s enthusiasm for the truth however is not shared by the secular world. In fact, its citizens, in general, harbor a distinct fear of the truth. This fear may be analyzed on three different levels:

1) that the truth would impose unwanted moral responsibilities on them;
2) that any association with the truth would occasion an air of pretentiousness;
3) that any claim to the truth might expose them to being wrong.

They prefer freedom from moral responsibility, absence of any “holier than thou” attitude and exemption from the possible embarrassment of being in error. Their fears, however, take them from the very light and meaning they long for, and plunge them into a dark void were they are trapped by a misery of their own making. Their flight from the truth is also an entrance into a world of gloom.

These three fears are ill fated, as well as ill founded. First of all, truth is our only avenue to real freedom. “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” John 8:32

Ignorance may at times be blissful, but it is never illuminating. St. Augustine once remarked that he had met many people who had been deceived, but never met anyone who wanted to be deceived.

We have a natural hunger for the truth of things. No one ever asks for the wrong time. It is always the “right” time and the truth about things we want to learn.

Untruth is not helpful, but truth is like a beacon that shows us the way. This is why the Pope titled his great encyclical on the freeing function of truth as Veritas Splendor (Truth’s Splendor).

When we are lost we want to lean the truth about our situation so that we can be liberated from our confusion. The truth makes us free; untruth binds us to bewilderment.
The truth about ourselves awakens us to our moral responsibilities, but we need this awakening in order to become whom we truly are, to advance toward our destiny, to build a meaningful life.

We should welcome the truth that illuminates our moral responsibilities with the same enthusiasm that a person who is lost in the woods and welcomes a compass and a map.

Secondly, the fear that any discovery of truth would make us pretentious is also counterproductive. Truth is not of our own making. Even Christ proclaimed that the truth He illuminated did not spring from Him alone. “My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me” (John 17:6)

Truth is not subjective. It represents the objective order of things. The person who comes to know something of the truth, then should experience humility, not vanity, for he discovers something that is not his.

Christ was emphatic in his denunciation of the Pharisees who claimed to know something of the truth but behaved with a pretentious snobbery. Truth is not he cause of Pharisaism, vanity is.

And both Christ and his Church are unrelenting in their advocacy of humility and in their condemnation of vanity. In fact, it may be far less tolerant of Pharisaism than the secular world. Consider, for example, the comment, “I hate anything fake,” made by Britney Spears, a veritable icon of artificiality and pretense. The secular world awards this kind of duplicity with celebrity.


con't...
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“There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing.”

Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Old 06-08-2005, 09:38 PM   #2
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Quote: (Originally Posted by no_fixd_address) Love for the truth has been a favorite theme of Pope John Paul II. “Let us seek the truth about Christ and about his Church!...Let us love the Truth, proclaim the Truth! O Christ, show us the Truth! Be the only Truth for us!” Agenda for the Third Millennium Pope John Paul II

The Holy Father’s enthusiasm for the truth however is not shared by the secular world. In fact, its citizens, in general, harbor a distinct fear of the truth. This fear may be analyzed on three different levels:

1) that the truth would impose unwanted moral responsibilities on them;
2) that any association with the truth would occasion an air of pretentiousness;
3) that any claim to the truth might expose them to being wrong.



Well let’s see here

1. Sense And Goodness Without God: A Defense of Metaphysical Naturalism- by Richard Carrier book that states that there is a natural moral base with out god

2. No

3. No I am fine with someone proving me wrong like I said truth fact not propaganda
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Old 06-08-2005, 10:25 PM   #3
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Metaphysical naturalism has nothing to do with the topic. If you would like to debate morality, lets talk about contraception and abortion, and all the atheistic principles of Planned Parenthood. They even go around to Girl Guides and Brownies to teach little girls how to put on condoms, not to mention the cirriclum of every public school.

If you reject Christianity because of alleged hypocracy and still take your daughters to church, what will become of your daughters faith? Kids aren't stupid, they know hypocracy when they see it. Kids don't learn faith by going to church and indoctrination, they learn it by example and assimilation. Wow, you must really hate yourself! Does your father read what you post?

I can prove mathematically,empirically,using several repeatable statistics from various independent sources, with comprehensive medical and sociological data, that the end results of behavioural wrecklessness promoted by birth control advances the spread of sexual transmitted diseases and abortion. But you will go switch from philosophy to morality to science and everything in between, to avoid the truth. Discussion with you is pointless.

I'm afraid your atheist guru Richard Carrier has no interest in the truth, but HIS propaganda. He re-writes historical facts of the early church to suit is atheistic doctrines. He discredits people of the highest calibre and integrity who have no reason to lie. He is a revisionist and a vain pharisaical atheist.
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“There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing.”

Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Old 06-08-2005, 11:28 PM   #4
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you are sighting "Christian only" sources where is the cross reference or the affirmation from another source outside of Christianity, oh wait there is none this is the same problem I have run in to with EVERY Christian they can't site supporting evidence because there is none.

Bigotry? No I am not a bigot
Arrogant? Yes I would say I am a little but I wouldn’t say I am on some high-horse here

Where do I contradict myself here?

My car accident? Nothing to do with anything said here hell if anything it has given me more time to catch up on my reading.

I have nothing but respect for you (as a person) I just happen do disagree with you when it comes to theology and the existence of god that’s all


Look at your sources here I do not see anything other than Christian/Catholic sources

By Dr. Donald DeMarco, Professor of Philosophy, St. Jerome’s College at U. of Waterloo, he is married with 5 children.

Taken from the Bread of Life Magazine, July / Aug. Volume 26 Number 3, with minor editing by me.

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Old 06-09-2005, 12:58 AM   #5
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Truth Part 2 of 2

Thirdly, there is the rather spineless fear that in perusing the truth, we might fall into the embarrassing predicament of being wrong. Again, there is nothing wrong that can reasonably justify this anxiety. We all make mistakes. Not to try something for fear of making a mistake is akin to a paralyzing neurosis that would discourage one from trying anything.

Some people avoid marriage because they fear divorce. Others avoid friendship because they fear rejection. The pursuit of truth presupposes a certain amount of courage. If nothing is ventured, as the maxim goes, nothing is gained.

The fact that truth is indispensable for a meaningful life does not mean that it is always agreeable. Mounting the bathroom scale can be a breathless ascent, because the anxious weight-watcher knows that this simple piece of machinery tells the truth.

But he disconcerting truth that one is overweight may be exactly what one needs if exercising and dieting are to follow. The freedom that health offers may need to be preceded by the disagreeable truth that one is too fat.

Truth is as natural to our minds as oxygen is to our lungs and food is to our digestive system. It is a great mistake to regard the teaching of truth as an imposition. The Church does not, nor can she, “impose” truth.

Rather, she endeavors to propose truths to those who are disposed to receive them. The Vatican’s Declaration of Religious Liberty states that, “The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it wins over the mind with gentleness and power.

The Church as Guardian of the Truth and Teacher of the Word provides food for hungry minds. She does not impose the truth; no more than do Christians impose food on hungry bodies when they practice this corporeal act of mercy.

She guards it because it needs to be protected against the contamination of error. She teaches it because it is more nourishing than error. Moreover, the truth enables her to teach realistically about the truth of Christ, the truth of the Catholic Church, and the truth of man. Apostles are ministers of love, but they are also servants of the truth.


THE SPLENDOR OF TRUTH
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...lendor_en.html

DECLARATION ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM DIGNITATIS HUMANAE ON THE RIGHT OF THE PERSON AND OF COMMUNITIES TO SOCIAL AND CIVIL FREEDOM IN MATTERS RELIGIOUS http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_c...umanae_en.html


By Dr. Donald DeMarco, Professor of Philosophy, St. Jerome’s College at U. of Waterloo, he is married with 5 children.
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“There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing.”

Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Old 06-09-2005, 01:55 PM   #6
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HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I Loved The Title Of This Thread
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Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:17 PM   #7
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.
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“There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing.”

Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
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Old 06-15-2005, 01:12 AM   #8
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cant argue*** Heb.ch 11 Now Faith Is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen for by it the elders obtained good report through faith we understand THAT THE WORLDS WERE FRAMED BY THE WORD OF GOD So That Things which are seen were not made of things which do appear
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Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything
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Old 06-18-2005, 06:02 PM   #9
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Futhermore

James Ch.5 1.6 We Trust In God To Him Alone Belongs To Glory The Miseries of the rich ...haaaaaaa it sounds good to the unrich..but what im trying to point out those who really trust in riches and put their faith in theme OTHER THAN GOD, is on a path to miseries ..our precious amazing writer in the poem section here at the feed ANN ALLUSION , wrote something called...i cant recall but anyways , she wrote something about ,What was it it dose,nt matter any away what ever we do to protect ourselves with money our food our shelters and so forth ANN i hope you do mind me using your beautiful potery for example THE WAY what should we study the science of self realizing love is the only WEALTH mankinds a puzzle with 2 selves you see which one are you who could you be the higherself flies while the lower self dies let go of the CARNALeyes inside reach for the heavens as one purtiy paves way for the love taught by the son relight the spark once burning insde let go of the illusions the lower self hides as david did goliath will fall breath in the one breath that saves us all reach for the heavens breathing as one purtiy paves the way for the son , Thanks ANN, I will proceed Futhermore
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Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything
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Old 06-18-2005, 06:06 PM   #10
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Go To Now Ye Rich Men WEEP, nd Howl For Your Miseries that shall come upon you your riches are corrupted and your garments are mothheaten your gold and silver is cankered and the rust of theme shall be a witness against you and shall eat your flesh as it were fire ye have heaped treasure together for the last days .
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Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything
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Old 06-18-2005, 06:12 PM   #11
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Futhermore

Behold the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your Fields which is of you kept back by fraud..crieth and the cries of theme which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord Of sabaoth Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth and been wanton ye have nourished your hearts as in the days of the slaughter ye have condemnded and killed the just and he doth not resist you
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Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything
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Old 06-18-2005, 06:19 PM   #12
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Futhermore !!The BASIS Of True Knowlege

Wherefore I will Not Be Negligent to put you always in Remembrance of these things though ye know theme and be established in present truth yea i think it meet as long as i,am in the tabernacle even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shown me moreover i will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance ..
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Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything
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Old 06-18-2005, 06:24 PM   #13
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for we have not followed cunningly devised fables when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ but were eyewitness of his Majestu For he Received From God The Father Honour And Glory When There Came Such A Voice To Him From The Excellent Glory This Is My Beloved Son In Whom I,am Well Pleased
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Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything
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Old 06-18-2005, 06:36 PM   #14
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2 peter 1.18.21

and this voice which came from heaven we heared when we were with him in the holy mount we have also more more sure word of prophecy whereunto ye do well that ye take heed as unto a light that shineth in a dark place untill the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts knowing this first that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man but holy men of god spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost
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Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything
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Old 06-18-2005, 06:44 PM   #15
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Futhermore!!! The Test Of Love ~1 john ch.2

Brethren i write no new new comandment unto you but an old commandment which ye have heared from the beginning again A NEW commandment i write unto you which thing is truein him and in you ; because the darkness is past and the true light now shines he that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darkness even until;l now he that loves his brother abideth in the light and there is none occasion of stumbling in him but he that hateth his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness and knows not whither he goeth because that darkness hasd blinded his eyes i write unto you lit children b/c..your sins are forgiven for his name,s sake
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Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything
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