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Old 05-19-2005, 02:17 PM   #46
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I do not need to reply to your attack on Jesus' birth because there WAS no attack. You NEVER furnished a passage in the Gospels where it EVER states what year Jesus was born in, much less two DIFFERING Gospels. Once you start bringing forth evidence, THEN maybe I will reply.
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Old 05-19-2005, 02:51 PM   #47
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Old 05-19-2005, 11:00 PM   #48
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These couple of arguments I have read are just purile Jester. Youre looking for reasons to hate Christians more so I shouldnt have said that, but these arguments are just silly!

I dont mean to be frank, but please give me something decent to research, cos this crap about how long before the ascention is worthless!

And their presentation of Him at the Temple? I dont understand why it isnt accepted here that they fled after His dedication. What bit of accurate information am I missing out on here that would make that idea unacceptable?

Unfortunately, proving points will not work with U cos U dont really want it to, cos as I said, this is not a theology / historical issue, it is a personal issue with Jesus that U R grappling with. But do go on...
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Old 05-20-2005, 12:34 AM   #49
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Old 05-20-2005, 08:57 AM   #50
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No, the world was not created in seven days and the Earth is not 40,000 years old, although I have heard some protestants claim the world is only 10,000 years old...

Anyway, the Census is when they went to Bethlehem, but you are forgetting something; first, the dates are not necessarily reliable that you put forward, and second, Herod's successor was another Herod! So there is no discrepancy there. By the way, most historians tend to believe that Jesus was born around 4 B.C., although I don't think there has been any proof one way or the other.

And you say you have looked OUTSIDE of the box on this subject? Have you looked around, near, or INSIDE the box? At ALL? Because if not, you are guilty of the opposite crime you claim we have made. I encourage you to read Founding of Christendom by Warren Carrol, as I have said before. He is an incredibly unique historian and he knows what he is talking about. At least read the chapters (in volume 1) pertaining to the validity of the Gospels.
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Old 05-20-2005, 11:26 AM   #51
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:29 PM   #52
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Actually, Matthew never specifies which Herod it is. Your jumping to conclusions and broad generalizations just continue to prove how much you want to prove Christianity wrong. In reality, you have no proof. Your "research" has not held up at all, your Biblical knowledge is clearly lacking--the only thing you have is a prfound and misplaced emnity for Christianty, so much so that you started a pointless thread jsut to attack it.

My prayers go out to you; not necessarily that you will become a Christian, but just that your mind will be opened and you will actually consider facts instead of faulty, secular, prejudiced, atheistic "history" which is no more true than the Da Vinci Code.

Cheers, I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for.
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Old 05-20-2005, 03:58 PM   #53
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Old 05-20-2005, 07:32 PM   #54
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Hey Jester, I must say you have some very strong arguements against Christianity, or at least the basis of it. You seem to have a lot of resources at your disposal and so it would be very hard to debate with you because I don't have those resources. I am actually in the process of moving, but reading your statements, I've decided to wait on packing the computer. I would love to start talking with you about this subject, but I am leaving to Cleveland for the weekend. So hopefully the discussion will still be going on by the time I get back. By the way, from reading your statements I don't believe you are out to prove everyone wrong. I understand where you are coming from and I believe everyone should step outside of the box. But I believe that when seeking the truth, it should be an honest search, not an attempt at disproving something. If you go into the search completely honest with your intentions then you will find what you were looking for. Even the Bible says this. Seek and you shall find.
Anyway, just to let you know, I've been a Christian for 11 years and not once, waivered in my belief. This is not an attempt at saying, "Ha, I'm so holy," but rather just giving you a basis of where I am at. I have thought a lot about what I believe in and why I believe it. I've never went off and studied the Koran or other religious books, just because I didn't need to. I have a strong foundation in God, and it's not the bible. It's my faith. God has worked wonders in my life both good and bad. I wouldn't know how to begin debating with you, just because I don't have as many resources as you. I have the Bible, which is all I need. I do have other books written by Christian authors, such as "The Case For Faith" and "More than a Carpenter." You might say that these authors are biased because they are Christians, but these authors are people who, once, were atheists and then, through their studies, realized the truth and became Christ followers.
I don't want to be here to try to re-convert you back or to prove to you that Christianity is the right way. I want to encourage you to seek the truth with honesty. I follow Christ and believe that He is the Way, not because of what the Bible says, but because of what He has done in my life. Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see. To me Christ is love and hope. Why wouldn't I want to follow that? Ok, with that said I'm out, but I promise I will be back.

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Old 05-20-2005, 11:55 PM   #55
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Old 05-21-2005, 12:34 AM   #56
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Man that was out to figure out bro My Reply Would Be its not meant to know all of these things but one scripture could help you start JESUS said i,am the truth the way in the light and also i have placed before ya and open door knock and shall it be open also I,AM THE GOD WHO SEARCHS AND KNOWETH ALL THINGS FOR HE IS NOT A STRANGE. but therefore is the ruin of all man And Created Man Liken To His Own image Dude My Question Is Or Is Not MAN MADE UP OF ALL THINGS YOU LISTED ABOVE THEREFORE HE IS THE GOD HIGHER THAN ALL OF THESE THINGS By Death Did He Overcome The World...With Of Course Bringing All Should Ever Know In To The Light Forgive theme for they know what they do which should have been made easy for all christians to to see and follow >>St.Luke 27.37. BUT I SAY UNTO YOU WHICH HEAR LOVE YOUR ENEMIES DO GOOD TO THEME WHICH HATE YOU Bless Theme Which Cures You And Pray For Those Who hate You And Use You And Take Advantage And Unto Him That Smiteth You On One Check ofer also the other and him that taketh away a cloak forbid not to take thy coat also give to every man that asketh of thee and him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again do unto others as you would have theme unto you for if ye love only theme which love you what thank have ye for sinners know how to love each other and if ye do good theme which only do good to you what thank we have for sinners do the same ...And So Forth LOVE ONE ANOTHER THE WAY I HAVE LOVED YOU
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Old 05-21-2005, 01:50 AM   #57
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Old 05-21-2005, 05:03 PM   #58
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Jester) here is one to think about just a thought mind you

Paul writes on love

1 corinthians 13:4-5 "Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up. v5 It is not rude it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered or resentful.

ok so here is my question All christians say that God is love right? but what about this?......


Job 40:6-14 God sits there and boasts (brags) about how great he is does he not?

Love does not brag?

Exodus 34:14: “Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.”

Love is not Envious (Jealous)?


there are more I just don't have the time to reference them right now

See this is what leads me to believe you jsut have a chip on your shoulder. Anyone can clearly see through the difficulties you are having.

Jealousy is a sin. The writers of the Old Testament knew that, and are clearly not meaning to say "God is a terrible sinner, only love HIM", they are showing how God is the ONLY God, and as such DESERVES that love and He ALONE deserves it.

In regards to your attempts at using dates to "disprove" the Gospels:

We do not have complete records from the period in question and there were several different callendars in use at the time all of which used "fudge factors" making precise dating almost impossible.

There were censuses taken by Roman officials every 8 years or so. Sometimes the censuses themsleves took several years to complete. We have reasonably established a census MAY have occurred ~6 AD. The previous one would have been ~3BC (there was no year 0). New evidence seems to indicate that Herod the Great may have died in 1 BC instead of 4 BC as most scholars had previously thought. So all of the dates do seem to add up.

Granted ,this isn't PROOF of anything, but you definitely cannot DISPROVE it either.
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Old 05-21-2005, 06:36 PM   #59
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Old 05-21-2005, 06:38 PM   #60
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Jester) I am just trying to get people here to think cuz it you don't ever question your faith (in my opinion) it isn't worth dick. I would put forth that God would want people who cross reference and scrutinize rath than blind faith Just my


I would have to agree with that thought JESTER
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