CNN News about terrorism Attack in London

[JulieCitySlicker]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Shut the thread if you want... but I'm going to keep defending my country as long as people keep attacking it on here with nonsense.

I'm not against defending our country I was just afraid of an all out verbal war starting

[uncertaindrumer]

Geez... So political.

First, Chase, no one is attacking the U.S. Most people outside of the U.S. KNOW that the majority of people disagree with the war, and disagree with Bush (and they do--that's a fact). They are disagreeing with his foreign policy, not the country itself.

Second, no one is doubting that sick extremist Islamic Jihadists (if that is even a word) did the killing. The argument is that this war in the middle east--like all wars--BREEDS stuff like this. NOTHING good comes out of wars. They create hate, destruction, terrorism, the whole shebang. But it was still sick Islamic terrorists who did this. No one denies that.

Third, has the world beceome so polarized, and so disunited, that we can't even give a heartfelt "We're with you" to England without an argument about politics? If the world is that shattered, the terrorists are going to have a huge advantage, because not only does terrorism feed on war and conflict, but it feeds on disunion and confusion.

Finally: Good luck England. I hope you rebuild faster than possible and I hope you hunt down the phsycopaths quickly. Don't lose heart. We are all on your side.

[Anna1011]

shit i just realised some guys we met at download live down london and i dont have any way to contact them i so hope they are all ok.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Geez... So political.

First, Chase, no one is attacking the U.S. Most people outside of the U.S. KNOW that the majority of people disagree with the war, and disagree with Bush (and they do--that's a fact). They are disagreeing with his foreign policy, not the country itself.

Second, no one is doubting that sick extremist Islamic Jihadists (if that is even a word) did the killing. The argument is that this war in the middle east--like all wars--BREEDS stuff like this. NOTHING good comes out of wars. They create hate, destruction, terrorism, the whole shebang. But it was still sick Islamic terrorists who did this. No one denies that.
.

Thank you, Stephen! You got my point!

[Chase]

Everyone in this thread has given their support to the British people. However, my point is when someone would rather sit there and blame Bush for these cold blooded murders. Whether you like him or not, that is absurd in every way. Great Britain CHOSE to support the United States. The United States never forced them to do anything. America has enough military strength to fight 5 wars at once if it came to that. I understand that people don't agree with the foreign policy of Great Britain and the United States. I understand that people think the world is better with Saddam Hussein gassing his own people. But what I DO NOT understand is why the same nations that were threatened by men like Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussoulini, and Josef Stalin have such a tolerant positions regarding modern genocidal dictators (who ARE threats to their regions). Then, to top it off, the pretend like the United States has never done anything to benefit the world... when in reality the United States helped Europe from the brutality of these monsters twice within the last 60 years. My grandfather, like so many others, fought to SAVE Europe. And when the U.S. needs European support, they face such harsh criticism of morons who equate Bush to Hitler, the U.S. to Nazis. We have been there to support Europe wholeheartedly since World War I... and like I said, we will always be there for them. Hell, we'd even protect Chirac's France. I'm debating these tainted opinions because it's obvious how bad the European press portrays the United States. You guys think Bush is a man who thinks he's enlightened by God to conquer the world and it's oil supplies. That's what you guys sound like. Instead, Bush has liberated Afghanistan and Iraq... and influence a bunch of other former dictatorships to actually provide common freedoms to their people. It's just hilarious to hear the European opinions of our government. The majority of this country chose Bush to continue to lead us... and for good reason to. We don't want to be pacifists when it comes to handeling terrorism, we don't want to ask for France's permission to defend ourselves, and we WANT a leader who is straight to the point. We had Mr. Politician Bill Clinton for 8 years... too much politics allows terrorists to operate easier. England invited tons of extreme Muslims into their country and Spain did the same. The United States did that prior to 9/11. Enough of being politically correct and understand that the United States and Britain have an offensive foreign policy for a reason. We don't want to keep dealing with these attacks in our countries... we want to take care of business in the Middle East.

[Dogstar]

Get over it. Not everyone is going to be a rah-rah flag-waving Bush supporter. Understand that people have their opinions and shouldn't be friggin insulted for them just because you disagree with them. You're repeating yourself. We all got where you stand.

[Trimontana]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

England invited tons of extreme Muslims into their country and Spain did the same. The United States did that prior to 9/11. Enough of being politically correct and understand that the United States and Britain have an offensive foreign policy for a reason. We don't want to keep dealing with these attacks in our countries... we want to take care of business in the Middle East.

Chase wait a second in here. I am not gonna say anything about what you have mentioned in your post cause i think you got a point in here. I dunno about American history cause first of all i am not American and secondly i have never studied American History. I am gonna tell ya something, as a good Spanish i know my country and about its history. Spain NEVER and i repeat never invited any Muslim into our country. I invite you to read this link
History of Spain: Catholic Kings.The Catholic Kings expelled every single person that weren't catholic and we never had Muslim people like a part of the Spanish society; all the way around we conquered whole countries to make the Spanish Kingdom even bigger cause once Spain was the Big Kingdom in the whole world. And please you never forget that America was discovered by Spain, and if today America is as strong as it is its cause Spain gave you a independence.
Spain as an old country with a lot of History has been very protected with what it though it was its. In Spain, and i know this is gonna sounds racist, for a long long time we never knew what it was to have a black, morrocans, indian etc... like part of the society like for example England or America, or maybe France that have loads of Morrocans living there. And even now its very weird.
So dont take like a critic or something against you Chase. I just wanted to leave it clear enough.
Thanks
Gabixxx

[uncertaindrumer]

Chase, Saddam Hussein was NOT a threat to any of us. Bush tried to say that and he has obviously been shown to have been lying.

You say you can't understand why people think Saddam Hussein gassing his own people was a good thing. Well, I also don't think China denying religious freedom is a good thing, or North Korea being communist, or Iran being oppressive. Have we invaded THOSE countries yet?

Next, let's invade France, because French people are all-around jerks. They don't like us and we don't like them. LET'S KILL EM ALL!

In case you were wondering, this is other what people think of when they think of Bush. Bordering-on-insane warmongering.

As a final point; Hussein was evil indeed. But does that gives us a right to invade and kill the people of Iraq? Because that is what we did.

[Chase]

Saddam Hussein was a definate threat to stability in the Middle East. His meddling in the Palestine/Israel affair was a major reason as to why so many suicide bombers blew up innocent Israelis. His sons were going to take over Iraq. It is a proven fact that his sons were just as bad as Saddam. You can't sit there and tell me that Uday and Qusay were going to take Iraq, turn it into paradise, and put a peace sign on their flag. Saddam had plenty of time to expel his weapons prior to the U.S. led invasion. He's not a stupid man. He's not going to put giant signs that say "WMDs HERE!" Since the first Gulf War, he broke 16 U.N. resolutions regarding his weapons program. He also committed crimes against humanity on numerous occasions. Saddam Hussein was a weapon of mass destruction... he showed that. Since you obviously have a problem with the United States taking out this murderer... you must've been so distraught when Bill Clinton sent troops into Kosovo to oust Slobadan Milosevic, into Somalia, into Haiti, and air raids on Baghdad. Bill Clinton's foreign policy was on the same page as Bush. John Kerry said that Saddam's weapons were a threat, so did Ted Kennedy, and Bill Clinton. So Bush uses diplomacy with North Korea, China, and Iran... and you have a problem with that? Don't speak so soon about us not having a military conflict with Iran... especially after the man they just elected was a captor in the Iran Hostage Crisis.

We didn't invade "to kill the people of Iraq." We invaded Saddam's Iraq to take out the Baath Party fascist regime. Plain and simple. No one has invented weapons that magically avoid civilians yet. There's only one group in Iraq who is there to kill Iraqis and that's Al-Zarqawi's terror gang. The people the coalition forces have ever targeted in Iraq have been Baath Party officials, Saddam's military, Al Qaeda in Iraq (and other minor insurgent groups), and Al Sadr's militia.

Trimontana... I believe everything you said regarding the history of Spain and it's royalty. However, I believe the only mistake that Spaniards made recently was electing a socialist, anti-American (war) government to lead them following the Madrid train bombings. I don't care that the government is socialist or anti-American... but the fact that the government they elected has a tolerant stance on terror... especially after they were attacked.

And if Bush is a "liar" for thinking that Saddam is a threat according to uncertaindrummer... then so is John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, John Edwards, Vladimir Putin, Tony Blair, Silvio Berlusconi of Italy, John Howard of Australia... and the leaders of Poland, Bulgaria, Spain, South Korea, Japan, Denmark, the Philippines, Hungary, Israel, Lebanon, and Romania because all of these governments had information that backed up Bush.

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

Get over it. Not everyone is going to be a rah-rah flag-waving Bush supporter. Understand that people have their opinions and shouldn't be friggin insulted for them just because you disagree with them. You're repeating yourself. We all got where you stand.

I never said I was a big Bush supporter, first of all. So, it's okay for people on here to insult the American people by saying that we elected a "lying killer." But when it comes to Chase expressing his opinions... look out... he's a "rah-rah flag-waving Bush supporter" whose "insulting" other members for rebutting their aimless claims about how Bush is a "liar" out "for oil." I have the right to my opinion just as they have the right to say that America invaded Iraq just to kill innocent people.

I've been respectful to their opinions, but by posting this... you're trying to stir up trouble by accusing me of "insulting" other people's opinions. You might want to close this thread before people start thinking that this country called America isn't out to imperialize the world. Hurry before it's too late.

[Trimontana]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Trimontana... I believe everything you said regarding the history of Spain and it's royalty. However, I believe the only mistake that Spaniards made recently was electing a socialist, anti-American (war) government to lead them following the Madrid train bombings. I don't care that the government is socialist or anti-American... but the fact that the government they elected has a tolerant stance on terror... especially after they were attacked.

I'm actually very happy with the actual Spanish President,Mr Zapatero, i voted for him on the Spanish elections by post from London. I'm a socialist (PSOE in Spain) and i dont think being one means to be anti-American. I believe being anti-American (anti-something else) is just think in individual or particular needs. If a president just think in that way its bad for the nation and Mr Zapatero did and is doing great things for Spain. The best thing Mr Zapatero did when he was elected was take all the militars Spain had in Iraq. The previous president, Mr Aznar, was just a bastard who put Spain in a difficult situation sending Spanish navy/militars to Iraq when Spain didnt had anything to do with that business. And in my opinion, and thousand of Spanish people, the terrorism attack last year in Madrid couldnt have been happen if Mr Aznar had taken another decision about it. So its very easy talk about politic from another country you dont even know about it. I cant actually say anything about that kind of stuff about America cause its out of my knowledge.

[The Lithium]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Wow, and you still refrain from putting any blame on the people that did this. Perhaps the most disgraceful thing you did was copy and paste lines from a sadly misguided, anti-American band's (System of a Down) current single. C'mon, think for yourself now and stop following the trend.

I don't know if you're just stupid or if you can't pay attention to what people say. Did you MISS this part?

Quote: (Originally Posted by The Lithium)

My favorit "political band" is by far System Of A Down. I'll quote pretty many of their lyrics in this post, 'cause they stand for what I stand for. I wanted to start with this.

And if you've ever listened through any of System Of A Down's album you'd notice that I've quoted VERY unknown and pretty old songs too.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

The United States went into Iraq with one thing on their mind: Getting Saddam Hussein out of power. We weren't at war with the Iraqi people, we were at war with Saddam Hussein and his atrocities. The United States has not intentionally attacked innocent people, unlike Saddam. Our military offensives in that country have been aimed at former Saddam loyalists and terrorists. Think before you accuse my nation of killing thousand of innocent civilians intentionally. People die in war... and the enemy is the one who is beheading innocent Iraqis (and foreigners) and detonating car bombs.

I don't know, maybe you forgot that it was America who first gave Saddam the power! Good going boys, keep "saving" the world!

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Like I said, if you and the majority of Europe had their way... Saddam Hussein would still be living in his palaces grooming his equally sadistic sons to take over the nation of Iraq. The United Nations doesn't run any nation's foreign policy.

No, if Europe would have had it OUR way from the start, Saddam wouldn't even have been in charge of Iraq.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

The United States created the damn United Nations for crying out loud. We don't ask for the permission of Kofi Anan to protect ourselves.

Well, you may have created them, but you sure as hell don't give a fuck about them. You don't even pay them enough money each year! And just so you know. You're breaking a law when you don't ask for permission of UN to start war.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Bush didn't send only the "poor" Americans to fight. Many Americans (like many of my friends) joined the military AFTER 9/11 because they wanted to protect their country. The majority of the men and women in the military are passionate about protecting the U.S. and the rest of the world from terrorism.

You know... If you look at American history you'll easily see that you guys have always had big problems with uniting your nation. But then you figured. "Hey man, it's much easier to unite a nation if you have an enemy everyone's afraid of! Yeah, let's do that!!". What about the Killing Bees? Why would they JUST come to US? Your goverment has scared you so bad that you're afraid for everything! And right now your global enemy is terrorists. Hell, it should be yourselvs!

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

The United States will still shed it's blood to protect Europe, it's just sad that Europeans wouldn't do the same.

Because we don't like your way your thinking! And here's some of your country men whos got my back!

Besides from System Of A Down, (who has an American drummer and was formed in Californa), check this out:

-Here's a picture of System Of A Down's lead singer; Serj Tankian and Audioslave's/(Rage Against The Machine's) lead guitarist Tom Morello. Picture. They've formed a political organization for justice and against war. You can tell they're not too crazy about Bush. The site is called [http://www.axisofjustice.org/]AxisOfJustice.org[/url]

-Here's a picture of Tim Commerford and Tom Morello from Audioslave/(Rage Against The Machine) doing something against Bush, I've done many times! Click here

-Rock Stars Against Bush, (features Dave Matthews Band and Bruce Springsteen). Click here. Here's two albums they've made: Vol 1. Vol 2

- Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, R.E.M., Pearl Jam and a deep roster of other rock stars will unite for politically minded concerts this fall that will give voice to dissatisfaction with the Bush administration.

-Or why don't read the lyrics to Wind-Up band Atomship songs? Here's one of them called Agent Orange:

Quote: (Originally Posted by Atomship - Agent Orange)

This is how you hold your American flag.
This is how you hold your American flag.
So this is how you hold your patri-fucking-otic flag.
We’re all a bunch of fucking disgraces!

Well, that'll do it for now, I could go on forever doing this... But hey, at least you got Britney Spears on your side!

[Anna1011]

you know you lots arguing aint gonna stop all thats happening, it aint gonna change whats happened and it aint gonna bring back all those that have died and stop all the families and friends hurting, so whats the point to it all?

[Ana4Stapp]

The London’s tragedy is one episode of the new face of the islamic terrorism which is determinade for a process including "democratization" and "decentralization" of their activities, what is a new challenge to the authorities all over the world.Its the “post-jihadism”.

If the Great Powers really want to stop the terrorism, so they need to rethink their foreign policy ans also the domestic policy, to weaken the radicalism’s appeal, because it’s certainly an attractive option to the excludent ones...

Look: People who were oppressed in the past became the oppressor at their fisrt opportunity in the future...

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anna1011)

you know you lots arguing aint gonna stop all thats happening, it aint gonna change whats happened and it aint gonna bring back all those that have died and stop all the families and friends hurting, so whats the point to it all?

And Anna, you are right about the dead ones in London and I'm sorry for them, but the point is maybe arguing about politcs we--citizen-- can finally understand the reaosn for what happened and also find a way to avoid more death and suffering in the future...