CNN News about terrorism Attack in London

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by The Lithium)

Come on man! We all know that shit ain't never gonna happen. The more you fight them, the more they'll fight back. But the risk if you let them be is that they will see their chance and terror will grow bigger than ever. But you Americans who still believe that what Bush does is the right thing have to realize that you can't win over terrorists. Suuure, Bush can bomb half the earth and kill 'em all so you can watch cable-TV and go safely to bed. But they will recover and after that they will be even MORE pissed.

None of this would have happened if Bush hadn't gone into Iraq. THAT was terror! Bush is terror! Killing innocent people for what? Usama? Naah, he has nothing to do with Iraq. Saddam? Yeah, well, maybe, but why won't they just send an elite group to take him out and no innocent people will be killed? But if I remember this right Bush's reason for going into Iraq was because they had Weapons Of Massdestroction. Tourned out later they hadn't. Bush was then pretty confused... Then he realized he could say to the media that he was there to save the people of Iraq. Yeah, that sounds good. Only that he had already KILLED the people of Iraq. And the once still alive... They didn't want any help from the man who had killed their familys and friends. I can't help thinking that maybe Bush wanted oil from Iraq...

Anyway... They sould've catched Usama, bad move Bush... Bad move...

See, this is what's wrong with Europe. They would rather sit and blame the innocent victims instead of the attackers. What about all of the embassy attacks that happened before the War in Iraq? You make it sound like terrorism is a newly developed tactic that came into play to combat Americans in Iraq! This has happened far before the War in Iraq. Stop trying to justify this barbaric attack on innocent civilians. At least America and Britain actually stand up to Islamo fascism. I hate to break it to you, but you're just as much of a target because of Sweden and Europe's rapid increase of secularism. You want to talk about Iraq? Well, let's talk about Iraq.

Tell me, why was it alright for Saddam Hussein to gas thousands of innocent Kurds and Shia? Why was it alright for Saddam Hussein for fund Palestinian terror organizations? Why was it alright for Saddam Hussein to rip off the UN's Oil for Food program to fund his lavish lifestyle? Why was it alright for Saddam's sons to order innocent people into gas chambers and little girls into rape/torture chambers? Why was it alright for Saddam's sons to torture innocent unsuccessful Olympic athletes? Why was it alright for Saddam Hussein to repeatedly BREAK UN resolutions towards his weapons programs. Not once, not twice, but about sixteen of those resolutions were broken. If you had your way, Saddam Hussein would still be doing all of these things. It's a proven FACT that Saddam Hussein funded terrorism and had ties to Yasser Arafat's terror groups. Since day 1, Bush has asserted the Saddam's crimes against humanity and I find it despicable that Europe would rather see the Iraqis be deprived of freedom just to see the United States be unsuccessful. You think this is a lost cause? Well, look at what good it has done. 60% of Iraqis went to vote for their government despite the threats of terrorists. We don't consistently get that percentage here in the U.S. Since then, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Georgia, Lebanon, and Egypt have all advoted democracy along the lines of the Iraqis. These were former Soviet and Islamo fascist regimes who were deprived the freedoms that we, as human beings are entitled to. You think Bush is a liar? Well then, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, the leaders of Russia, Great Britain, Australia, Italy, Spain, Japan, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, South Korea, the Philippines, and countless other nations must be liars because they ALL believed that Saddam Hussein was at least a threat to stability in the Middle East. We don't want Iraq's oil. We can get oil in our own country. Following the first Gulf War, we had access to ALL of Kuwait's oil and we could've easily controlled all of that oil. Who controls that oil? It sure as hell isn't the United States. It's the Kuwaitis who control their own oil. Democracy is the anti venom to terrorism. We're still on the hunt for Osama Bin Laden... and in time, he will be brought to justice. At least my countrymen are actually doing something to try and thwart these terrorists. That's a lot more than anyone can say about Sweden, France, Germany, and the rest of Europe (with the exception of Great Britain, Italy, Spain, and Russia). These Islamic terrorists are sick and they love the fact that they have been able to warped European minds into thinking that everything is America's fault. The truth is that they want to attack every non Arab nation they can. The United States has nothing to do with their agression against the Hindus of India. The United States has nothing to do with their agression against the Catholics of the Philippines. They would like the world to sit there and believe them when they claim that the U.S. and Israel are the reason why they blow up and behead innocent men, women, and children. The United States has saved Europe from the Nazis, the world from the spead of Communism, and they sure as hell will save the world (by themselves if they must) from Islamic terrorists. It's sad when you call Bush a terrorist for taking outa brutal, mass murdering, tyrant. It's sad when you can't even condemn Al Qaeda for blowing up innocent Londoners who were still celebrating their confirmation of being the city to host the 2012 Olympics. Utterly sad.

[JulieCitySlicker]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

Look, people, let's not turn this into a political debate, OK? There's been enough fighting and bloodshed in the world today. Can we just leave the politics out of it for now and send some healing vibes and prayers or however you want to help in your way over to England? Thanks.

Alright,sorry Kerri

[aussiecreeder]

I agree with Kerri enough of turning this into a political discussion. These issues can be discussed at a later date. Fathers have lost wives, mothers have lost sons, and well you get the picture. How 'bout thinking of the human toll before starting Debating 101? I'll answer Hayley's query however because its not political and its someone wanting to really know. This is a very difficult topic and I could discuss this area of theology for a long time. You don't believe and thats fine but I'll give my opinion on the matter.

If God could not stop these terrorists from taking innocent life then he would cease to be God by definition. That means he/she/it (whatever one believes) had to allow this to happen. Why perhaps we will never know. Assuming there is a God ( I think there has to be otherwise life itself makes no sense. Fate doesn't really make sense to me because who controls the fate?) then this being must have infinite intelligence, power and be outside the forces of time, matter and space. This for me leaves three possiblities. This being either somehow brought us into being and just left us here to our own devices which is known as Deism.

Or perhaps this being ( maybe more than one but for this topic I'll stick to the basic idea of the Christian/Judaism/Islamic God) is some sort of sadistic monster who enjoys watching mankind stuff up century after century. The third possiblity and the one I believe is that God is a completely good being and wants the best for mankind. However we are not robots and then the element of free will comes into it. In times like this its very hard to trust that God is even there, I'm not disputing that for a single second. However our minds must be tiny in comparison and we don't know the full picuture. Perhaps its worth remembering the good that is lavished upon mankind day after day. God is largely neglected by mankind yet the sun never ceases to warm the earth. You live in a first world country so 99% of people in NZ never have to worry about where their next meal is coming from and most have us have family and friends that make our lives so much better.

I'll be completely honest and say I REALLY struggle with some of these areas but the above is my belief. Perhaps we'll always think differently on these areas and that is completely cool. You wanted to know so I hope my explantation wasen't too technical.

[Ana4Stapp]

Ok Terri, I understand the moment and all the sadness involved in it, even though we have also to understand that politic is present all the time in our lives...and its definitely guiding our terrible present time.

[The Lithium]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Tell me, why was it alright for Saddam Hussein to gas thousands of innocent Kurds and Shia? Why was it alright for Saddam Hussein for fund Palestinian terror organizations? Why was it alright for Saddam Hussein to rip off the UN's Oil for Food program to fund his lavish lifestyle? Why was it alright for Saddam's sons to order innocent people into gas chambers and little girls into rape/torture chambers? Why was it alright for Saddam's sons to torture innocent unsuccessful Olympic athletes? Why was it alright for Saddam Hussein to repeatedly BREAK UN resolutions towards his weapons programs.

My favorit "political band" is by far System Of A Down. I'll quote pretty many of their lyrics in this post, 'cause they stand for what I stand for. I wanted to start with this.

"You and me will all go down in history with a sad statue of liberty and a generation that didn't agree" --System Of A Down

I'm not saying it was alright. But you tell me why it was right for America to go into Iraq and kill innocent people, just like Saddam already did? Why was it alright for US to torture innocent people of Iraq, just like Saddam already did? Why was it alright for the US to go into Iraq without UN's permission and break the "laws" of UN, just like Saddam did?

I'm just saying that if they wanted to take Saddam out they should've sent an elite group instead of sending poor Americans.

"Why don't presidents fight the war, why do they always send the poor?" --System Of A Down

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Since day 1, Bush has asserted the Saddam's crimes against humanity and I find it despicable that Europe would rather see the Iraqis be deprived of freedom just to see the United States be unsuccessful.

Please, this is not about wanting US to be unsesuccessful, this is about that Bush is so full of crap that he's drowning in it!

"You depend on our protection, yet you feed us lies from the table cloth" --System Of A Down

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

You think Bush is a liar?

Well, yeah... Sorta... But the word I'm looking for is more like asshole!

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

We're still on the hunt for Osama Bin Laden... and in time, he will be brought to justice. At least my countrymen are actually doing something to try and thwart these terrorists. That's a lot more than anyone can say about Sweden, France, Germany, and the rest of Europe
(with the exception of Great Britain, Italy, Spain, and Russia).

You have such a romantic point of view of all this. Haven't you seen the news? Horrible, horrible pictures! You should go down there and fight as a soldier yourself, maybe you'd change your mind.

Actually Denmark have soilders in Iraq too. But you shouldn't be fooled by that. Denmark is the "Bush-friendliest" country in Europe. Still 9 out of 10 hates him. And I've never met a single person from Sweden who thinks Bush does a good job. Don't be fooled by what the "leaders" decide. Doesn't have to mean the people likes it.

"4000 hungry children, leave us per hour from starvation, while billions are spent on bombs, creating death showers" --System Of A Down

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

The United States has saved Europe from the Nazis, the world from the spead of Communism, and they sure as hell will save the world (by themselves if they must) from Islamic terrorists.

Killing in the name of bullshit!! Yes, you saved our asses from Nazis and Communism, thanks for that. I'm actually truely glad you did that. But Israeli for example. Did you ever ask if they wanted to be "saved"? Or did you just want it your way? Well, most of us Europeans believes you just want things do be your way... When your acting like some kind of Jesus.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

It's sad when you call Bush a terrorist for taking outa brutal, mass murdering, tyrant. It's sad when you can't even condemn Al Qaeda for blowing up innocent Londoners who were still celebrating their confirmation of being the city to host the 2012 Olympics. Utterly sad.

Hey, I suffer with the people of London! I have friends who lives there! I'm not a cold blooded terrorist just because I dislike Bush! I love London and personally I feel a little attacked myself 'cause I've been to Lonodon so much and as I said have friends in London and middle England.

"The remainder is an unjustifiable, egotistical power struggle
At the expense of the American dream, of the American dream
Of the American...

We don't give a fuck about your world
With all your global profits
And all your jeweled pearls
We don't give a fuck about your world
Right now

There is no flag that is large enough
To hide the shame of a man in cuffs" --System Of A Down

[The Lithium]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

I hate Bush too! After Bush invaded Iraq, terrorism is increasing all over the world... and he still continues to poses being the Great good guy...

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

No its not funny, cause no one here its pointing fingers to an innocent, it just the opposite, cause no one can deny that Bush foreign policy is an error: US and others countries like England and Spain supported war in Iraq, so their action is provoking a reaction...a bad reaction, of course it is WRONG AND TERRIBLE ... but its the true.
And of course terrorism is stupid and coward, made by groups that are full of ignorant extremists using barbarous methods of cruelty in the name of faith?!!

Thank you!!

[Chase]

Wow, and you still refrain from putting any blame on the people that did this. Perhaps the most disgraceful thing you did was copy and paste lines from a sadly misguided, anti-American band's (System of a Down) current single. C'mon, think for yourself now and stop following the trend. The United States went into Iraq with one thing on their mind: Getting Saddam Hussein out of power. We weren't at war with the Iraqi people, we were at war with Saddam Hussein and his atrocities. The United States has not intentionally attacked innocent people, unlike Saddam. Our military offensives in that country have been aimed at former Saddam loyalists and terrorists. Think before you accuse my nation of killing thousand of innocent civilians intentionally. People die in war... and the enemy is the one who is beheading innocent Iraqis (and foreigners) and detonating car bombs. Like I said, if you and the majority of Europe had their way... Saddam Hussein would still be living in his palaces grooming his equally sadistic sons to take over the nation of Iraq. The United Nations doesn't run any nation's foreign policy. The United States created the damn United Nations for crying out loud. We don't ask for the permission of Kofi Anan to protect ourselves. I have friends who are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. The only reason why I'm not there is because I'm a college student who is studying to become involved in the government. We couldn't take out Saddam Hussein by only using elite forces because that nation would be in even more chaos than it already is in. You need a lot of military presence to quell those who are against freedom for the innocent Iraqis. Bush didn't send only the "poor" Americans to fight. Many Americans (like many of my friends) joined the military AFTER 9/11 because they wanted to protect their country. The majority of the men and women in the military are passionate about protecting the U.S. and the rest of the world from terrorism. So, Bush is a "liar" and an "asshole" for taking out a tyrannical, genocidal, dictator? Wow, and to think that United States did that 60 years ago in Europe... go figure. It's just odd how Europeans went from proud people during World War II to a bunch of nations that are intimidated by Islamic terrorists in the present. I love Europe and I love Europeans. My family immigrated to America from Sicily and Germany. However, I don't understand how and why European-Americans are so different from their European counterparts. The United States will still shed it's blood to protect Europe, it's just sad that Europeans wouldn't do the same. God bless Great Britain.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by The Lithium)

Thank you!!

You're welcome!

But i think some people just need to learn more about History here...

Quote:

And of course The United States has not intentionally attacked innocent people

...

No way...never....

But USA governor (not the american people or soldiers) protecting countries after the 2ndWW ?!!!! Fighting for freedom???!!!
How about invading others and supporting dictatorship governments ???!!!

[JulieCitySlicker]

I think this thread should be close,before it gets out of hand

[Dogstar]

I'm keeping an eye on it, Julie ...

[Chase]

Shut the thread if you want... but I'm going to keep defending my country as long as people keep attacking it on here with nonsense.

[Ana4Stapp]

Just to clarify things here: Im not ofending anyone here, not ofending americans--cause i have friends who are americans, by the way I made a good friend from USA,here on CreedFeed and also have relatives that live in USA. So this is not my point.

All that started when Lithium --and I agreed with that and posted a reply to it--said that terrorism in London is an answer to Bush's and Blair foreign policy.Period. This is our opinion. We have the right to say it. Of course, the other member have the samer right to disagree with that. We disagreed, argued, but not ofended or used name-callings.

Also this is totally different from insulting american people or any member here. We are not doing that. This is our opinion and we wanted to express it. Politics are present in our lives all the time.We have to face it and not avoid it like it was a distant thing , cause it certainly is defining our day- after -day but if some members just prefer to ignore this, fine..

Quote:

Shut the thread if you want... but I'm going to keep defending my country as long as people keep attacking it on here with nonsense.

-We are not attacking your country--guy, we are expressing our opinions about US government. ok? and i'll keep defending the right to say it.


If someone want to close the thread...

[Chase]

Well it is offensive when someone sits there and calls our President a "liar" and an "asshole" for taking out the "Butcher of Baghad." Look, I understand that it's the cool thing to hate the President and not know why you hate him. If you think Bush is a "liar" for believing that Saddam Hussein was a threat... then the leaders of Russia, Britain, Italy, Spain, the Philippines, South Korea, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, the Honduras, Denmark, and Australia are also "liars" because they believed they believed the same thing as Bush. My point is, that you guys won't condemn the people that actually did this attack... instead... it's "Bush is an asshole, it's his fault!" That is offensive. How are you advocating free speech by wanting this thread closed? Look, I don't sit there and make fun of Brazil's rampant crime rate or Sweden's inability to accomplish anything on the international level. If you're going to criticize the United States aimlessly, then you can expect a rebuttal from me everytime. That's how I roll. Lith and Ana... I love you both... but c'mon... you have to understand that I'm a history major with a minor in political science. I love to debate.

[Dogstar]

Well, there are plenty of political threads in which to debate. This was a thread that was started to let us know what happened from someone who lives there and to let us know that she was OK.

These *debates* always degenerate into people pretty much resorting to name-calling, and that is not tolerated here, OK? People are very passionate about their political beliefs and they don't really seem to tolerate anything they disagree with. Instead, they typically resort to insulting the people who disagree with them along with those people's beliefs.

There's a reason people avoid subjects such as politics and religion IRL. It's probably a good idea to keep the politics to the political threads here as well. Thank you.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Well it is offensive when someone sits there and calls our President a "liar" and an "asshole" for taking out the "Butcher of Baghad." Look, I understand that it's the cool thing to hate the President and not know why you hate him. If you think Bush is a "liar" for believing that Saddam Hussein was a threat... then the leaders of Russia, Britain, Italy, Spain, the Philippines, South Korea, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, the Honduras, Denmark, and Australia are also "liars" because they believed they believed the same thing as Bush. My point is, that you guys won't condemn the people that actually did this attack... instead... it's "Bush is an asshole, it's his fault!" That is offensive. How are you advocating free speech by wanting this thread closed? Look, I don't sit there and make fun of Brazil's rampant crime rate or Sweden's inability to accomplish anything on the international level. If you're going to criticize the United States aimlessly, then you can expect a rebuttal from me everytime. That's how I roll. Lith and Ana... I love you both... but c'mon... you have to understand that I'm a history major with a minor in political science. I love to debate.

I do condemn the terrorists...

Quote:

And of course terrorism is stupid and coward, made by groups that are full of ignorant extremists using barbarous methods of cruelty in the name of faith?!!

I will defend the right of express my opinion--also your opinion to do the same-- in any case, but if some mod wants to close the thread, what can I do? -I mean, they are the mods...

I think all the problem is related to people that dont "understand" politics like some natural and a matter that makes part of our quotidian. A great number of people use to act like the " political analphabet" , ignoring the importance of it.

Of course, my country,your country,Lith's country--all of them are full of mistakes made by bad politicians, I'm not denying it.

I could say I hate my own president--(wich is not he case, but I hated a lot of them--)Im not ofending--Im voicing my opinion saying I hate Bush or Blair or Putin...cause I hate their governments--not their countries...not the people...

I'm a History teacher, so it's easy to understand that I love to talk about politics and to debate it...


And Chase--I love you too.