Baptism for the dead
 

is this ordinance necessary? if not, then why did they do it in the primative church of Jesus Christ? "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
1 cor. 15:29
i know of only one church that does baptisms for the dead. which do you think it is?

what are your thoughts on this subject?

I DIE DALIY My Thoughts, Good Subject :jam:

Affirms in me that there is all the more reason for there to be someone or a few, overseeing churches, or they start doing stupid things.

Paul was saying that the practice of the Corinthian church was wrong.

There was a line in the mormon church that did it, so it wasnt just the primitive church of Christ.

And also even praying for the dead, the catholic practice, is not too biblical! There is some crazy stuff out there!

now, if you read tht passage carefully, you would see that some of the saints in corinth were doubting the resurrection. hence, the apostle Paul asking them if the dead dont rise, why do they do the baptism...meaning that the dead would someday rise. remember what Jesus Christ did between the time he was crucified and resurrected...He went to preach to the spirits in priosn. why? theat they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. remember: if a man isnt born of water and the spirit, then he cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven. what about those who have died without having a chance to even hear about the Gospel? im here and africa right now, andi have met tons of ppl who have not even hear about Jesus Christ. so how can they be help accountable for not being baptised if they didnt have a chance to be baptised, or even have faith? hence the original church of Jesus Christ, and the restored church of Jesus Christ does baptisms for the dead.

The restored...dont even get me started.

So lemme and everyone else here get this straight....
The Church of Jesus Chirst of the Latter-day Saints believes that people can be saved after they die by having them baptized.
Correct? After they die?


Wha??? Man, wheres that from??? Show me. Gimme a verse, elder.

The corinthian church were told that they were wrong and I am telling you that you are as well. A sprinkling on a babys head or dunking a corpse in water is not going to save someone. It is their decision. Nothing the perfect Latter-day saints can do to change that! Point is, they will meet Him, say that their dead body was baptised and He will say, "I never Knew you", even to some who think that they rebuked demons in His name.

You can dig up every grave and dunk dead folks in water, but it wont do a thing; U can read other books but the Holy Bible, and that wont do U any good as well...

Oh and now that U R an elder they must have confided in you about getting your own planet. Right? So what do U think of that? We never heard back from U.

Sincirr is right the christian walk is all about a personal relationship and every ordiance can be practised whether commanded by christ (eg communion) or an unbiblical one such as this and it will do you no good whatsoever. in fact someone can be a true christian and not be baptised although if they refuse to obey the command for that ordiance then questions perhaps need to be asked.

whatcha got?


congrats, youre learning




John 5:25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."
John 5:28 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice"
1 peter 3:19 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison"

any questions?

nope, try again

sorry, we dont baptise babies, and we do baptism by immersion.
now lets review the nessecity of baptism:
John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"
Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be [/b] baptized [/b]
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:48 "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and [/b]
be baptized[/b], and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
Titus 3:5 "Not by works of arighteousness which we have done, but according to his bmercy he saved us, by the [/b]
washing[/b] of regeneration, and drenewing of the Holy Ghost;
1 peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto [/b] even baptism doth also now save us [/b] (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

I think thats enough for now
oh yeah, we dont dig up bodies, but through the restored priesthood, we are baptised for them.
anyway, continuing on those who dont think baptism is necessary(sp?) anymore:
Galatians 1:6-7 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ."
2 timothy 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.





thats right "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

those two verses you quoted there don't even talk about baptism yet alone mention the word.

Shows how much you know right there. Baptism for the dead doesn't involve dunking a corpse. You're so far off it's not even funny.

Again, very wrong. No one gets their own planet. There is nothing that says anyone can or has. See, you think you know things about the LDS church, but you don't.


On a side note, I can't remember the verse offhand, but it says that you must be baptized to be saved. Is it rational to think that if one dies without being baptized, they cannot be saved? Jesus said that everyone would have the oppurtuninty, but not everyone who has died has. So is there no hope for them? Wouldn't God have compassion and continue his work?


H-D :pimp:

maybe because i wasnt talking about baptism. i was talking about apostasy.

OK I understand that in the Church of LDS you baptize the dead by someone standing in and representing the person. is this a correct understanding?

If so the other people are making the choice not the individual themselves, otherwise they would have done so while living. They had their time on earth and if they die suddenly so be it. They had the choice before...they chose not to. We cannot baptize someone who is dead, did not make the choice for themselves, however we can hope God shows his mercy, but it is clearly stated that you have to be baptized.

As for those who truly have not heard about Christ or God, well we have to hope there as well, but then again, it says go and make disciples of all nations, so it is our duty to make sure they have heard and have the chance to make that choice.

So it all comes down to the individuals choice to accept christ. No one else can do that for you.

The first part is referring back to the resurrection of Christ...."if the dead rise not at all?". Paul is making a case for the resurrection of Christ...because he was dead and rose again. It is for the doubters basically in modern terms- Why else would you partake in this practice unless you truly believed Jesus rose and that you or your friends/family could rise (eternal life)?'

make sense? He is not telling them to do this or that it is correct, he is simply saying well you must believe in it if you are doing these actions.

IF you read the next versus...he says "And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? I die every day- I mean that brothers- just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, " Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die." 1 Corinthians 30-32

See here Paul is continuing his thought and saying, If we do not raise from the dead when we die, if we do not recieve eternal life, if christ had not risen then why do we risk our lives every day. He is saying believe in christ and believe in the resurrection and you can be raised and have eternal life.

Furthermore go back to the classic John 3:16 but lets look at the whole paragraph so John 3: 16-21
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the lifght for the fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plaingly that what he has done has been done through God."

Highlighted in bold, I have the key ingredients. To have eternal life we must accept Jesus as the Savior. If we do not, we die and do not recieve eternal life. Therefore how can the dead make this choice...they cannot. Nor can any person stand in and make this choice for them. They had to make the choice while living.

Now as in special cases such as children....Jesus said to make ourselves like children for the kingdom of heaven, meaning innocent...i believe a child who does not know right and wrong yet will be shown mercy...but obviously God holds the key. As to an adult who dies suddenly in an unexpected car crash...well too bad they had years to make the decision...they didnt. That was their choice...If it was up to others to make that choice...well then why not do it while that person is still alive? Because we know it doesnt work. We have to choose Christ as our savior, and thats how we get to heaven. No other way.

I would comment to all of this but im noy smart enough here to back all the scriptures I agree With You Alter S. On Somethings But I Also Agree More With Dan In Other Matters But The Babtizm Its Self Is Sacrafice Of Ourself To Be Closer To God And You Must Be Ready Take The Example Of Christ He Was Also Babtized So Yes I Believe The Babtism Is A Must And Works Out Different For Everyone On Their Salvations Path One Faith One Lord One Babtism Nobody Is Above It It Is A Must Have It All Depends I believe When That Person Is Ready To Take That Step Matt.13,17 Then Cometeth Jesus From Galilee To Jordan Unto John To Be Babtized Of Him But John Forbad Him SAY I HAVE NEED TO BE BABTIZED And Comest Thou To Me And Jesus Anwsering Said Unto Him SUFFER IT TO BE SO NOW FOR THUS BECOMETH US TO FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUNESS Ok If You Will Notice After The Babtism Jesus Was Prepared For The Temptation In The Wilderness I believe The Babtizm Was A Must Have To Overcome TRIALS The Spirt Is Willing But The Flesh Is Weak Our Flesh Dies Daliy With The Babtizm It Is A Must Have For Your Own Good, THERE COMETH ONE MIGHTIER THAN I AFTER ME THE LATCHET OF WHOSE SHOES i,AM NOT WORTHY TO STOOP DOWN AND UNLOOSE I INDEED HAVE BABTIZED YOU WITH WATER :) BUT HE SHALL BABTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST :jam: :jam: The Time Is Fulfilled And The Kingdom Of God Is At Hand Repent Ye And Believe The Gospel :jam: :jam: :jam:

i agree 100% that we must be baptized, i never said otherwise. I just know that we have to choose to be baptized ourselves. I cannot make that choice for you creedsister, just as you cannot for me. That is why baptism of the dead does not work. It has to be a personal choice for salvation.

as you can imagine, i have met alot of ppl who have never heard of christ. if thats the case, imagine the millions of ppl that have died without ever hearing the gospel. how can they be held accountable? how can the Almighty Judge refuse them on grounds of them not having faith or being baptised? thats why the gospel is preached to the spirits in prison "for this cause is the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit" 1 peter 4:6. now when a person that is dead has baptism done for them by someone on the earth, they still have a chance to accept or reject it. its still up to them.

Yes, that's a more correct understanding. The person is standing as a proxy. The prayer for the baptism of the dead is exactly like the prayer for the living (as used in many churches including the LDS), but includes "I baptize you for and in behalf of ___ who is dead" after calling your name and ending with "in the name of the father, the son and the holy ghost, amen."
That last sentence is right. After you die, you still have your free agency to act however you want. We can still make choices. The gift of choice can never be taken away from us. We will always be able to think for ourselves. If someone has not had the oppurtunity to hear of Christ, but must to be saved, we believe that they are taught in heaven. Afterwards, they have the choice to make of whether to accept it or not. If they choose to accept it and are baptized for on earth, they can progress through the kingdoms of heaven (Celestial = top, Terrestrial = middle, Telestial = lower). Now, I know you're going to challenge that statement, but think about it, if you were absolutely perfect in your life and did everything right, would you want to live with someone who could barely sqeek by into heaven? or vice versa? Because we still have the agency to choose, people will still choose not to believe, just as people still don't believe here on earth. And, before you ask, you're not taught by God or Jesus. You're taught by the faithful who believed on earth and are asked to become teachers.

There's a lot more I could write about that, but let me sum it up by saying this: when you die, you don't automatically go to Heaven or Hell. You go to a type of "holding ground" per se, where you wait to be judged. This is where you are taught. God and Jesus are not physically here. Then, you are judged, and go to either heaven or hell, depending on how you are judged. If you accept, you have to have all the proper work done on earth before you can go all the way to the highest tier. That is why we do work for dead.


H-D :pimp:

i agree with some of what your saying but it all depends on the person what ever floats their boat This Topic Could Just Go On I Still Agree With My First Opion But :) I Always Love To Put In My 2 cents Everyone Must Work Out Their Own Salvation Paths And God Deals With Every Person In His Own Way For His Reasons to every creature and every living thing as a purpose under heaven Not Changing The Subject But I For One BELIEVE ALL DOGS Go To Heaven And Haaaaaaaa I believe they Do And I Also Believe In I Cant Spell It Re~In~Car~Nation That Depends On The Person As Well Im Sure If Some One Died And For What Ever Reason GOD Would Want Him To Come Back As A Dog Like Like In The Movie Fluke And Yes Im Serious :smokin:

HD and FM, why do U insist on defending such crap!

Read these verses!

Hebrews 9:27
just as man is destined to die once, AND AFTER THAT, to recieve judgement.

NOPE! baptism of the dead does nothing! Too late!!!!

It even says in Hebrews 4 that those that have even had the gospel preached to them will not necessarily make it so whats with this baptism crap!
it's between U and God. Thats all.

Yet another gimmick to get numbers! Makes me sick. False hope, false gospel. False religion.

Tried to stay away from this thread but after seeing the abused word of God, I had to intervene. :mad1: I hope people that read those verses read this!

I did not ask U this time about the planet thing, I asked FM, who is now an elder and should have been told. And I know mormons and practicing mormons at that so please dont tell me that what your own brothers have told me is not true.

Obviously U didnt ask your officials like I asked you to. Please do HD. Theres no harm in it. Just ask.
The word for dead, nekrosthat is used here is used figuratively man. It can be used that way and its pretty obvious that it is! Look at the verses before this one, particularly the one JUST before!

v 24: I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned;he has crossed over from death to life
They arent dead, just dead figuratively. Just like the eyes of the blind being opened. Yours are still blind so U wont get that one.

Oh and what about this one that U quoted, and conveniently left out the rest of:
[b]v 28: Do not be amazed at this for a time will come when alll who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out-those who have done good will rise to live and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.[/B]

So if they did evil whilst being alive, is a dead-baptism gonna help em? No me thinks.


NONONONO!!! That is so sneaky and horrible!

the prison refered to here is HELL, where the people of Noah's time that did not listen are now;

And he is not saying that he preached to them in hell, he is saying that those guys, while living, had a chance as God sent the spirit of Jesus that "preached" to them but they ignored Him.

The word preached is being used in a past tense that U are taking advantage of to prove your point. A deceptive point at that. But that is pretty characteristic of your religion.

So once you're dead God is not willing to forgive and give second chances? Death is the end-all?

If practicing members told you that, then they don't know their religion. I have read about it, I have asked leadership, and I know what I'm talking about. This is the basis of the foundation of that belief: we believe that (as it says in the Bible) we can become gods (Gen. 3:5, Ps. 82:6). We become LIKE God in every way, yet are still followers of him and are subject to his rule. ALL rightous can become as God. Even you. Any person judged as worthy of entering into heaven CAN become gods. Now don't get me wrong with what I'm saying. One can NEVER become THE God. There is only one God. We can have the power to create worlds, but UNDER DIRECTION OF THE FATHER. This is how it's been explained in the past: A forman has a construction crew. They need to build a house. The builders can do it themselves, but must ask the forman and use his direction. This is the same thing. Don't just talk to people you know. Take your own advice, and ask high ranking church officials (ie, Bishop, Stake President, Patriarch, etc.)


Just a question to you now. Who is more likely to go to hell: The Christian who works to please God, spread his word, and bring people to him, OR someone who doesn't tolerate freedom of religion and tells people that they are wrong, full of crap, false, and sets judgement upon them when they don't even know all the answers?


H-D :pimp:

We have this life to choose the path we take so yes after death according to scripture there is no second chance. Baptism for the dead is right up there with the Catholic doctrine of giving money for family members to escape purgatory (or have sentences reduced) IMO.

:d

Read my bible quotes. Start facing up to the truth.
Just like satan, your downfall is that you believe U can be like God, knowing good and evil" (as it says in the bible, Genesis 3:5). You're still under the curse. Get free. Get Jesus.
The power to create worlds...sounds like U get your own planet to me!
I did talk to a Mormon bishop. Youre being lied to. And your church approved books wont tell U the truth because they are altered.

Youre saying I am basically going to hell. Nice judgement there. You're no better off than I :D

Though your refer to my comments as "BS" and wont bother to take them in, in answer to your question:

Just cos U work to serve God does NOT mean anything if U dont know the true Christ. Jesus said that some will come and say "hang on! I cast out DEMONS in your name! What do U mean I am going to hell???" and still he will reply, "I never knew you".

I cant believe U took a freedom of religion tollerance stab at me when basically you Mormons think that you have the answers and every other religion doesnt! Why do your brothers come to my door and still try to convert me if it is otherwise!

And I WILL defend the word of God because it is truth and as the Pharisees, you will find out when U die, that U have been defending a lie. Man it sux!

Facelessman! What did your leaders tell you! Speak up!

sorry sincirr, thee gospel is the gospel, and youre trying to pervert it. we gave you countless of proofs of the nessesity of baptism. a true believer, after he gains faith in the Lord, will be baptised, why? because its a commandment, and if you love him, youll keep his commandments. theres not end to it, ok. if so, the apostles wouldnt have continued to preach it. if so, they wouldnt have baptised people. lets take for example, when Paul was imprisoned in acts 16, and converted the guards. a guard asked him what he has to do to be saved, and paul to them to believe and youll be saved. then what did paul do 2 verses later? he baptised them. why, becuase baptism is the next step after you believe, and a requirment to enter into the kingdom of heaven. but thanks to ppl perverting the gospel, we now have false teachings in the world. now, thanks to modern revelation that the only true church recieves from the Lord himself, we know the importance of baptism. and i know these things are true and theres nothing you can do to change that. and since im running out of time, and ill be back to continue add more scriptures. thank you.

I NEVER SAID BAPTISM WAS WRONG!

I said that baptism of the dead was pointless.

About the planet thing. While U R online: Tell us what they have told you about getting your own planet. I know they have told U.

I did read your quotes. Let's look at the verse 28 for example. The good will live and the evil will be condemned. That comes after the final judgement and the resurrection. In the resurrection, the spirit will rejoin the body. Just like what happened to Jesus when he was resurrected. There's a big long space between death and there. Maybe you need to learn the background of verses.
I am free. I got Jesus.
Sounds like you didn't read my example.
Well I don't know what to tell you. Maybe talk to another one. Not all of them know the same amount and understand doctrine in the same way. Plus, it seems you twist words around anyway. You probably twisted his.

I never said that. I told you to make the judgement.
Read the passage again. He's talking to the people who did it for show and/or money.
Everyone has the right to choose their path. We don't have ALL the answers, and never claim to. We say we have MOST of the answers. God has not made all of his secrets known. We're told that in the Bible. We believe we have MORE of the truth than other churches. The elders still try to convert you because it's what they've been called to do. They dedicate two years of their lives to converting people to Christ. Maybe, one day, you should actually talk to them.
Well, if I am going down, at least I know I'm not alone 12 Million+ will be going down with me. And, if heaven is filled with people like you, I'm glad I'm not there.


Well said, my friend. :clap:


H-D :pimp:

what is the point of getting in a theological arguement (one that i believe that sincirr is right in btw) if both sides are going to argue like a couple of spoilt politicans?

haaaaaaaaaa its cool i very much like reading their opions :)

There is so much that I could reply to but I wont. I will say though, that I do not have an issue with baptism, except for the dead. That is all.

I also believe that God IS here on earth, via the Holy Spirit, which Jesus refers to as The Comforter. I also believe that THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES TEACH US!, God does speak today, And God is at work on the earth. I am not alone by any means.

I also need to say that I am not your enemy FM and HD. Use your brains! The fight is not against flesh and blood. I dont hate U. I never will. Sorry if you got hurt, but U R not the ones my arrows were aimed at.

But in truth, all I have heard is deception from almost every single mormon I have spoken to. Only 2 have answered my questions truthfully and taken me seriously enough not to lie to my face or try to manipulate me into converting.

aussiecreeder is right. No point in arguing theology cos all it does is make people say that they would rather be in hell than be in a place if you are in it, so I will stop cos its not helping. Thank you AC.

But I hope it helped someone out there that is wondering about mormonism, that is not trapped yet. It is a cult. Any belief system that makes you state, "...and I cut off all ties with Jesus Christ" when you leave the so called religion, is a cult. It is based on control, not grace. Please be careful.

Thank you for that, Sincirr. I agree with everything you said except for the last paragraph. Mormonism is NOT a cult. Honestly, I have never heard of the quote you posted for when people leave. One person I recently met is a former mormon, and he is now a Baptist minister. I have also heard of others who are still religious. I'm just going to leave it at that. It's just something I haven't heard.

This is my personal, overall belief: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are very alive and their work happens all over the world because of men and women who believe in their existence. There are many religions and they all differ from each other. When all is said and done, the most important thing is not what church you've dedicated your life to, but what you did to better yourself, to better others, and how your life was dedicated to the genuine love of others and the work of God. I believe you do not have to be Mormon to go to heaven. I know many people who are not mormon who are some of the greatest people one can know. I am Mormon because of what the church has taught me about God, life, and service. The world only knows such a small sliver of the secrets of God, and nobody anywhere has all of the answers. Find what works for you. The bottom line, in my opinion, is how dedicated your life was to Jesus Christ and following his example and his teachings.


H-D :pimp:

what about them?
 

by the way.. this is hannah. not dan. here's a thought...

so some of you say this life is it... when we die thats it. no second chance. thats what you say. do you realize not everyone is mentally stable? do you realize not everyone lives life like a normal child, grows up, grows old, and then dies. it doest work like that for everyone. not even for most people. what about special needs people? you could be 54 years old and still not be able to count to ten, or know the difference between your fmaily and a stranger. what about those that die in car accidents when they are 18? what about people that have heart attacks? what about someone who on their way to being baptized gets hit by a car and dies? now thats far fetched, but im not saying it isnt impossible. God gives second chances. He doesnt jsut say.. oops sry you have a birth defect, but if you dont get baptized you're going to hell. God doesnt say, sorry you got hit by a drunk driver and died, but you have to be baptized to go to heaven and your not.... so it looks like hell for you. God loves us and wants the best for us so he gives us a chance after death.

.. also. i dont belive you can yell at someone and then say, im not yelling at you. i dont belive you can bash someone and say, im not bashing you. i dont belive you can hate someone and say, i dont hate you.... think about it. now share your opinion.

thats all. --hannah

I base my posts with Ephesians 6:12 in mind, not with Higher Desire or your boyfriend in mind. If you wish to take a stab at me personally again, be sure to PM me.

well the accountablity for someone who is mentally impaired would be very different to the average person. i'm of the view such a person doesn't really have the chance to accept or deny so they would not be judged. what has that got to do with baptism after death? that is clutching for straws........

how about basing your posts on the bible as a whole, not on just one verse. stab at that. "...except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"
stop making up excuses, and keep that commandment. you say that youre christian, what does that mean? that you follow Christ. Christ was baptised. why? "...to fulfill all righteousness" if youre not baptised, youre not fulfilling righteousness, nor are you christian, nor have you repented of your sins "John did baptise in the wilderness, and preached the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. "...Bring forth fruits worthy of repentance"


any questions?

you dont understand the scriptures nor the power of God. if youre not baptised, you cant go to heaven. case closed. what about those who never even heard about Christ? as we have stated so truthfully, they will have a chance in the spirit world to accept or reject a baptism that a member of the true church of Jesus Christ did in their behalf. what more can you want? mercy and justice have been fulfilled, and throught the grace of God, He has given us a second chance to prove ourselves that we would do all the things that our God has commanded us. and its true. i know it for a fact. and there is no way anyone can argue against that.

thank you. we dont hate you either, we just gotta stand our ground, ya know? one thing chrstianity is about, is love. so no, we dont hate you.
sorry its not a cult, but in fact its the true church of Jesus Christ. as Peter said in his 2nd general epistle, "...the way of truth shall be evil spoken of." we have the truth. please, speak more evil of it, and fulfill this prophecy. as john put it,"it was given unto him to make war with the saints..." all the false things going around about the LDS church, all the anti-stuff, and all those who fight against her, are only fulfilling it. the devil fights against the true church of Jesus Christ, The Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints , the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.

any questions?

Proverbs 3:5-8
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
"In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
"Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil.
"It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones."


H-D :pimp:

in other words
god wants the easily manipulated and the uneducated. Cuz it says right there god does not want you to think

Not sure what's going on in the discussion but I have to point out the fallacy here. First, no where in the Bible does it say to not pray for the dead, and second, in the Deuterocanonical book 2 Macabees, it is AFFIRMED that praying for the dead is good and pleasing to the Lord.

You may not accept the Septuagint, but it certainly is historically valid, and to this day Jews pray for the dead. Did Jesus ever tell them to STOP doing that? No, and if it was bad He would have, wouldn't He? Also, read 1 Cor 3: 10-15, I'm sure you will be surprised by what you find.