My point exactly. This board's been around almost two years in some form or another, so you've had plenty of time to voice your opinions before now.


So by *things happening* you only mean negative things? There was plenty going on that was mostly positive over the last couple of years: When the tour was happening, when Weathered came out, all the support when Scott got into the accident, sympathy for when Mark's mother died, when Mark got married, when Flip became a father...Odd, didn't see you around then.
And just because there was no controversy does not mean we all sat around here *professing* our love for the band. :rolleyes:

Yeah, OK, cite the interviews and the performances where you perceived his bad vibes or nasty character. I saw them four times on the Weathered tour and also on TV interviews and print interviews. I guess we just perceive things differently. I'm not one of those who looks at things through rose-colored glasses.


You're missing the point. If people are going to bash, they should at least have facts to back up their statements. That's all I'm asking.

[quote=multifast1]My negative impressions of Stapp did only form over the last couple years since that when I think he started changing in his attitude. QUOTE]

Well, I think some change would be seen in any band after awhile. When a band first starts out, they aren't well known, they grow a fan base over the years, have more demand on them, are more noticed publicly, have more responsibilities, more stressful tours, etc. Not to mention the decreasing privacy they have. It has to be hard to not be able to go alot of places without someone recognizing you, wanting autographs, following you...hell, there are people claiming they would move to Florida just to be closer to some members. I don't know, to me, that's a bit over the line. Just my opinon though on that. My point to this is that after you get more and more fame, I would think you might put up a bit of an invisable shield around you to protect yourself from some of that. Kind of like a more distant persona at times. Alot about fame is great but for those of us who haven't had to deal with it, I bet it has alot of drawbacks too.

Just my thoughts. Have a great day everyone. :)

Jimi Hendrix
 

I skimmed through a bio of him yesterday at B&N...thinking about the pressures on rock stars...and my love for Stapp...and Creed...and the sober feelings I have now, watching them change....maybe for the better, but I can't easily believe that, how can you be better than their first three cds?

I think it's kind of like that Prometheus legend, someone has extra "vision" and flies up high to find Strength for us dimmer bulbs, lol....and we are transfixed by the beauty/strength...and cannot separate it really from the one who risked so much to bring it...

But heroes come and heroes go...the truth endures forever...

I don't give Stapp all the credit...it was a mixture of things in him that drove him to stardom, not something he was really in control of...just as now I don't think he has all that much choice...he has to respond to what is inside of him.

I think at first when the artist has not seen how UGLY the "mob" is....it's love of people that drives the great artists...but when you become a "star", the people start to act like animals...when the artist believes in the people, he can do anything, he can sacrifice himself.

But then it just gets to be too much. And I don't think the pressure is the same for the rest of the band..they may be just as important to the success of the band, but it is the lead singer that all the pressure is on..

So the artist can just go all cynical...and learn to put up a hard exterior...maybe stay alive deep inside, I don't know...or he can just sink into despair, into unreality...thinkng of Layne Staley...and drug abuse so common for so many celebs...when you rise so high you are cut off from real human fellowship, everyone "wants something".

I'm glad Stapp is alive. Creed was real. As Hendrix said, every cd is really like a personal diary of the soul of the artist...they are opening up themselves to the whole world...it's incredibly daring, you cannot hide anymore once you have done it...if you are VERY STRONG, maybe you can continue, but I think it is pretty hard...even the poets and writers of previous generations...alcoholics who died young, lots of them.

I don't know. I have loved them. I'm kind of old, but they were addressing issues that were so important to me, I got into Creed because of my children...and talking with other Creed fans at the old Creednet changed me permanently...a place where people who really did not agree came together to talk about what meant most to them...it was the FaithForum...you had to learn to "love your enemy".

I don't know what fansites ought to do for the stars they love...in the end, the star has to "save himself"...but it's kind of hard, like Jesus, yep the one they tease Stapp about for his "christ poses", when he was on the cross, "he saved others himself he cannot save", I think every artist is a bit like that.

They save us with their vision, but their vision destroys them.

But I hope to God Stapp can save himself...maybe going in a slightly different direction will bring him some kind of renewal....and I hope that all the band members will be able to stretch as much as necessary to remain respectful/appreciative of each other. Each of them has to think about their own life..and career...but...well they were brothers...

shunammite, AWESOME post in my humble opinion. It might not mean much coming from me, but thank you for taking the time to put your thoughts down so eliquently. That is partly what I was trying to say but never really got to that because of all the other crap I got caught up in discussing (my own dang fault!).

I just think some of the vices and pressure of it all started to get to him and has changed him in a negative way. That's only from my perception from what I've seen from the outside looking in. Obviously some haven't seen it that way, but I can tell you from what I've seen at other boards and at concerts (not just Creed concerts either) that there's just as many people that have similar impressions of Stapp's change as who don't think so.

Dogstar, I certain can't speak for the others who've "bashed" Stapp... but I for one have been on various Creed-related boards for over three years now posting on occasion.. on all sorts of subjects to do with Creed. Sorry, I haven't been at this board but give me a break. In retrospect, posted to this thread as my first post here wasn't an Einstein idea, but it happened to be the first I read and felt I had something to contribute on. Btw, I have written letters to the band in the past thanking them for all the songs and inspiration they've provided over the years and written one to Mark with condolensences on his mother's death.. I'm not some johnny-come-lately.

You and others keep asking for "proof" as to why I think Stapp has changed for the worst in his attitude.. there is no smoking gun that you're looking for. If it was fact, there would be no debate. It's an opinion I've formed from lots of different things. No one thing by itself would make me think that way, but put them together and I have a pretty strong impression of him. I'm not talking about weight gain either.. If you want a couple that come to mind, I'd say the Chicago concert made the biggest impression (yes, I was there), the Celebrity Poker event, and the multiple news articles of the fights he has gotten into over the years. Like I said, those coupled with the various other little things I've picked up on from interviews and seeing him on TV have just given me bad vibes. Do I hate him? No. Do I hope he has continued success musically? YES. Do I want him to get his act together (imho) and make Creed an even better band? Hell f'in YES!

One thing about Hendrix, his band had a string of lackluster performances before he crashed...I give Stapp credit for all the good performances he gave, when he was surely in hell...it was just one that he bottomed out...I'm glad I wasn't there, it was bad enough reading about it.

I was there opening night for Weathered in Atlanta and saw them two other times also. It was awesome, at the end of the center catwalk.

I hope they come back, but I know they gave the best they had, every time.

If you look, I don't gush over any particular band member either. And like I said, save one thread where I took bashing at one band members expense and turned it around to send it back to another...I don't take any shots at any one else either. Some of us are just damn tired of shit like "The Stapp Problem", etc. If the only thing people want to discuss is what is "wrong" with a particular band member, why not take it somewhere else, rather than continue to start thread after thread.....is that sharing information? Dude, we've been told over, and over, and over again what Stapp's problems are. Unless you have some earthshaking new information about another vice, or another way in which he's f**cked up, how about just talking about the band itself. Google using the words....I hate Scott Stapp......there are plenty of hate sites out there they would love to hear any opinions you have about the man. Some of the people here are just freaking tired of hearing the same opinions over and over again, in thread after thread. Have a negative opinion of the man if you prefer...that's your right. But its also the right of others here to be so sick of hearing the same comments over and over....to tell people who only dwell on what's wrong with a person.....to SHUT THE HELL UP.

You also have the right to ignore the thread and not read it if you are sick of hearing or reading about it :D ... yet you don't. Maybe you just get kicks outta telling people to shut the hell up. whatever.

I have just a couple questions for all of you people who are attacking Scott.

1- Do you know him personally, and know what he's going through in his life at this time?
2- Who are you to judge and form opinions when you don't know any of the reasons of why the band is going off in their own directions except for what has been said by Scott, or other memebers of Creed (like they're not breaking up, it's a hiatus? anyone remember that)?

Well......
 

The title of this thread was "will Creed ever make another album....in actuality it was.....no....they never will and this is why....insert how much you blame Stapp for that, and tell us just how much you dislike him.

If I didn't read threads that eventually turned in some way into a Stapp bashing thread.....there wouldn't be much of anything to read....you feel it your right to voice your opinion as often as you like......and I'll do the same. You don't care for Stapp.....I do. So you can voice your opinions, but I'm not making sense if I voice mine. Actually I'd love talking about something else for a change....but the topics seem to always lead back to the same subject.

Jooji, I'm not the one telling people "to shut the hell up" ... or others I've seen like "DIE" in response to someone's opinions. You're more than welcome to voice your opinion as far as I'm concerned, but don't be mad when others with opposing views do the same. That was my point.

I guess we'll just have to disagree in our opinions of Scott. Nothing wrong with that, or is there???

I don't know what people saw in the Celebrity Poker show. I watched it a couple of times, and I thought he was fine. He was trying to make things interesting, and if you notice, almost all of the celebrities had a bit of swagger. My impression was it was part of the schtick of the show. I can't imagine that watching people play cards would be compelling television, which is why I think they all tried to be funny, brash, whatever. Just my two cents. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

I agree Dogstar. They were suppose to act cocky...it was part of the show. He at least tried to make watching poker interesting. He was fine.
There were a few others on the show I didn't care for...but Stappy did a
nice job of making things fun. He should however, takes some leasons on how to play the game, before next years tournament. :D

Sure...I can agree to disagree. But don't expect to voice your opinion without receiving dissenting opinions in return......and you will get some....and not just from me.

:lurking:

Cool. Speaking of Celb Poker show... was anyone else shocked at how mellow Tom Green was? I mean he was the one I expected to be outgoing and silly. Instead he turned out to be the most "normal" of them all. lol.

(sorry this thread has gotten so far off topic!)

ditto

I thought the same thing about Tom Green. When I heard that Scott was going to be on with him, I thought "Oh no, he's going to steal the show" (I'm sure we've all seen Tom Green look like an idiot - but he IS funny). It turned out that Scott was the one that was making me laugh. I thought it was fun to watch him. That's what it's all about right? Fun!


:offtopic: - But this topic was silly to begin with.

I knew it was going to happen. It was for the reasons I said as well. The final straw was Chicago. :(

To all of you who said get over it(Chicago) didn't understand how big that show was. That show ended my favorite band of all time. Had Stapp not gotten in to dugs and alcohol our favorite band would probably be touring right now and have a fourth album already out.

I had a bad feeling when I was there, I could sense that was it, Creed was done. He let down Mark, Flip, and Brett as well as thousands of fans. :(

There are two sides to every story. Chicago was definitely a turning point, no doubt, but there seems to be more to it than just that.

Yeah, it was every thing up to that point and that was just the final straw. This sux. :( :mad:

It does indeed. But at least they both will still be making music. I'm happy about that :).

I understand what you mean about thinking something wasn't right. I saw them in Tampa in November of 02, Scott seemed really drunk or something. He messed up some words and just didn't act the way he had the times I had previously seen them.I blew it off as him having a bad night or something but it stayed in the back of my mind and not long after that I started hearing rumors about trouble so I think there were probably a lot of us afraid it might come to this.

Yeah I know. But Creed was something special. They put on better live shows than ANYONE! I am glad I got to see them though. Every concert I went to they were amazing except the last one. I wish wind-up would do a live DVD or something. Or a live album.