Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words

[Ana4Stapp]

[quote=uncertaindrumer]

Quote:

Actually, Ana, you have no clue what I do since I have never told anyone online.

Thanks for remember me this.

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But the DEFINITION of history is things already gone by. If you want to disagree with facts, go ahead and do it. But sticking your own ideas about what "history" is (in contradiction to what it ACTUALLY is, though at the moment that is unimportant), is precisely what we are talking about. You telling me your opinions on what history REALLY is, is acceptable. But trying to tell your students that history is not the things gone past is ludicrous. That is simply untrue. If history included the present, it would no longer be "history".

I find amazing that you arent discussing about the teacher attitude , voicing your opinion about it--but giving your concept of History as it was the TRUTH. What was your college? What were the authors did you study ? Researches please???

Quote: (Originally Posted by eusebio)

Thanks for pointing out the fault in our "uneducated" opinion.

No..thank YOU for posting your always educated opinion !!!!

[eusebioCBR]

GOOD TIMES at political banter

[uncertaindrumer]

Uh, HELLO, Ana, go look up history in a DICTIONARY please. If one wants to change what the word means, one must be prepared to explain why one is changing the meaning. I'm just going by the definition I have known for some time; history is a chronology of events that have already happened.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Uh, HELLO, Ana, go look up history in a DICTIONARY please. If one wants to change what the word means, one must be prepared to explain why one is changing the meaning. I'm just going by the definition I have known for some time; history is a chronology of events that have already happened.

I really dont know why Im answering this...maybe it s because you arent disagreeing about the teachers attitude in voicing his opinion about Bush or abour History as a science of the past ( ) like the other people here --but now you are TEACHING me waht is the meaning of History!!!!! And thats AWESOME!!!!

Go look for a definition of History in a dictionary??????!!!!!!

WOW !!!!! your 'knowledge' based in definitions of dictionaries is ...AMAZING!!!!!!

I think me and other people who studied or are still studying History .. for 4 years at least...simply wasted our precious time in attending at college.-- and instead of it we could just follow your example and READ dictionaries...Oh Im sorry I cant follow your example because I m already a graduated person ..but ...maybe Chase can do that...

btw are the dictionaries virtual or 'real' ones? I'm curious...


HELLO, Stephen go look for books and authors in History to validate your comments or its better to go back to your ...Maths ...

[Ana4Stapp]

Anyway since im uncertains friend I'll HELP him:

History: What is it?
"The popular conception of history as simply a record of past events seems to have as an obvious corollary history's basic unchangeability. History is often seen as a a vast array of facts, arranged more or less chronologically, unalterable except for the occasional unearthing of a lost city of the discovery of a trunk full of letters in an attic. At its best, it is an exciting and vivid costume drama; at its worst it becomes a tedious, turgid catalog of facts and names designed to torment the young. . . . The problem lies in presenting history as a story with a fixed plot and cast of characters. It is true that this approach is natural and to some extent unavoidable, particularly with students receiving their first systematic exposure to history. But it is also possible, indeed critically important, to offer at least a glimpse of a very different concept: history as a dynamic process. By this I mean a rich, varied, evolving intellectual system that allows us to achieve a deeper and better understanding of our world, indeed of ourselves. In this vein history still deals with the past, but it conceptualizes a past in constant dialog with an ever-advancing present, one that responds to new questions and reveals fresh insights into the human condition. This is history as it is understood (and enjoyed) by professional historians, and it is high time that others were let in on the secret." [Anthony Brundage, Going to the Sources, 1997, pp. 1-2]

[uncertaindrumer]

I don't know exactly what we are arguing about here. There is a definiton of history, and then there is what people MEAN when they say history. The first is objective, the second is not. If you have an opinion on what history means to YOU, that is one thing, but using that as a definition in a public school is just wrong.

I mean, if I told someone math was the defining science of life and we can learn everything about the universe from it, that would be an opinion (a stupid one, but that is besides the point). Holding that opinion is one thing, impressing it upon a bunch of students is wrong.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I don't know exactly what we are arguing about here. There is a definiton of history, and then there is what people MEAN when they say history. The first is objective, the second is not. If you have an opinion on what history means to YOU, that is one thing, but using that as a definition in a public school is just wrong.

I mean, if I told someone math was the defining science of life and we can learn everything about the universe from it, that would be an opinion (a stupid one, but that is besides the point). Holding that opinion is one thing, impressing it upon a bunch of students is wrong.

Are you a teacher????

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Are you a teacher????

I'm starting to think this whole discussion is just a ploy you formulated to discover my profession/occupation.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I'm starting to think this whole discussion is just a ploy you formulated to discover my profession/occupation.

Actually I have more interesting things to do in my free time ... anyway I asked you it in a ironic way just to know if you have enough knowledge to make those comments about teaching Hiistory...but seems you dont...

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Actually I have more interesting things to do in my free time ... anyway I asked you it in a ironic way just to know if you have enough knowledge to make those comments about teaching Hiistory...but seems you dont...

Teaching history should be no different than any other discipline in terms of objectivity. Teachers should try to remain aloof. I understand mistakes can be made. But mistakes versus agenda is totally different.

[RalphyS]

Quote: (Originally Posted by eusebioCBR)

unfortunatly in this situation truth is relative to the deliverer. ... but comparing Bush to Hitler is a reckless display of the teachers political opinion.

Actually the teacher remarked that 'some people' compare Bush to Adolf Hitler, which is a correct statement.

There are those who consider Dubya, a dictator, and make this comparison. I would not mind a teacher bringing up that other make that comparison, and after that spark a debate/discussion as too how far that comparison is true and as too how far it is ridiculous.

If you want young people interested in your classes, it sometimes helps to incorporate modern culture in history, bands like Incubus, Disturbed, Green Day and others make comparisons between dictators in Bush in their songs. I would welcome teachers bringing up this subject, not saying that the statements of the bands are true, but discussing these things they claim are true and with which young fans are being indoctinated in another way.

It is easy to portray Hitler as the ultimate evil and to not discuss any of his policies, but you would learn nothing than, we especially need to learn about the things that went wrong in history to learn from our mistakes.

History is not about teaching that Germany started the second world war, the important part of history is the events and things done or not done that caused Germany to start WWII.

And I do feel that current history is also an important part of history, how can one understand anything about how this gulf war came to be, without knowing the events that happened surrounding operation desert storm?

I'm not saying that teachers should form students opinion, but they should be involved in helping them to form some sort of opinion by instigating discussion and by making them think about issues.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

Actually the teacher remarked that 'some people' compare Bush to Adolf Hitler, which is a correct statement.

There are those who consider Dubya, a dictator, and make this comparison. I would not mind a teacher bringing up that other make that comparison, and after that spark a debate/discussion as too how far that comparison is true and as too how far it is ridiculous.

If you want young people interested in your classes, it sometimes helps to incorporate modern culture in history, bands like Incubus, Disturbed, Green Day and others make comparisons between dictators in Bush in their songs. I would welcome teachers bringing up this subject, not saying that the statements of the bands are true, but discussing these things they claim are true and with which young fans are being indoctinated in another way.

It is easy to portray Hitler as the ultimate evil and to not discuss any of his policies, but you would learn nothing than, we especially need to learn about the things that went wrong in history to learn from our mistakes.

History is not about teaching that Germany started the second world war, the important part of history is the events and things done or not done that caused Germany to start WWII.

And I do feel that current history is also an important part of history, how can one understand anything about how this gulf war came to be, without knowing the events that happened surrounding operation desert storm?

I'm not saying that teachers should form students opinion, but they should be involved in helping them to form some sort of opinion by instigating discussion and by making them think about issues.

Like always , the best words here.!

[uncertaindrumer]

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I'm not saying that teachers should form students opinion,

Then why do you conradict yourself?

Quote:

but they should be involved in helping them to form some sort of opinion by instigating discussion and by making them think about issues.

Let's put those two quotes together:

Quote:

I'm not saying that teachers should form students opinion but they should be involved in helping them to form some sort of opinion

Helping to form is different from forming? It is amazing that you can simultaneously not what any of your rights violated and yet also want all our kids rights violated. Teachers should not form (or "help to form" which is just a euphemism) their students opinions on things, period.

[RalphyS]

Instead of arguing the matter, you want to play wordgames. English isn't my first language, and obviously it isn't always flawless, but I thought it was obvious what I meant.

So next time you want to criticize my language contradictions, please reply in Dutch, so I can have a good laugh.

I do not wish any teacher to mold students opinions into that of the teacher, but I do think it is admirable in a teacher to stimulate students to form an opinion, any opinion, based on discussion/debate of the pro's and cons on different subjects (as opposed to some absolute nonsense that is being indoctrinated into children).

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

Actually the teacher remarked that 'some people' compare Bush to Adolf Hitler, which is a correct statement.

There are those who consider Dubya, a dictator, and make this comparison. I would not mind a teacher bringing up that other make that comparison, and after that spark a debate/discussion as too how far that comparison is true and as too how far it is ridiculous.

If you want young people interested in your classes, it sometimes helps to incorporate modern culture in history, bands like Incubus, Disturbed, Green Day and others make comparisons between dictators in Bush in their songs. I would welcome teachers bringing up this subject, not saying that the statements of the bands are true, but discussing these things they claim are true and with which young fans are being indoctinated in another way.

It is easy to portray Hitler as the ultimate evil and to not discuss any of his policies, but you would learn nothing than, we especially need to learn about the things that went wrong in history to learn from our mistakes.

History is not about teaching that Germany started the second world war, the important part of history is the events and things done or not done that caused Germany to start WWII.

And I do feel that current history is also an important part of history, how can one understand anything about how this gulf war came to be, without knowing the events that happened surrounding operation desert storm?

I'm not saying that teachers should form students opinion, but they should be involved in helping them to form some sort of opinion by instigating discussion and by making them think about issues.

Sorry, I still believe EVERYBODY has an agenda. This teacher didn't make much of an effort in presenting the pro war view.