Baptism for the dead - Page 2

Higher_Desire · 02-27-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Alter Shredder) OK I understand that in the Church of LDS you baptize the dead by someone standing in and representing the person. is this a correct understanding?

Yes, that's a more correct understanding. The person is standing as a proxy. The prayer for the baptism of the dead is exactly like the prayer for the living (as used in many churches including the LDS), but includes "I baptize you for and in behalf of ___ who is dead" after calling your name and ending with "in the name of the father, the son and the holy ghost, amen."

Quote: (Originally Posted by Alter Shredder) If so the other people are making the choice not the individual themselves, otherwise they would have done so while living. They had their time on earth and if they die suddenly so be it. They had the choice before...they chose not to. We cannot baptize someone who is dead, did not make the choice for themselves, however we can hope God shows his mercy, but it is clearly stated that you have to be baptized.

As for those who truly have not heard about Christ or God, well we have to hope there as well, but then again, it says go and make disciples of all nations, so it is our duty to make sure they have heard and have the chance to make that choice.

So it all comes down to the individuals choice to accept christ. No one else can do that for you.

That last sentence is right. After you die, you still have your free agency to act however you want. We can still make choices. The gift of choice can never be taken away from us. We will always be able to think for ourselves. If someone has not had the oppurtunity to hear of Christ, but must to be saved, we believe that they are taught in heaven. Afterwards, they have the choice to make of whether to accept it or not. If they choose to accept it and are baptized for on earth, they can progress through the kingdoms of heaven (Celestial = top, Terrestrial = middle, Telestial = lower). Now, I know you're going to challenge that statement, but think about it, if you were absolutely perfect in your life and did everything right, would you want to live with someone who could barely sqeek by into heaven? or vice versa? Because we still have the agency to choose, people will still choose not to believe, just as people still don't believe here on earth. And, before you ask, you're not taught by God or Jesus. You're taught by the faithful who believed on earth and are asked to become teachers.

There's a lot more I could write about that, but let me sum it up by saying this: when you die, you don't automatically go to Heaven or Hell. You go to a type of "holding ground" per se, where you wait to be judged. This is where you are taught. God and Jesus are not physically here. Then, you are judged, and go to either heaven or hell, depending on how you are judged. If you accept, you have to have all the proper work done on earth before you can go all the way to the highest tier. That is why we do work for dead.

H-D

creedsister · 03-01-2005, 09:43 PM

i agree with some of what your saying but it all depends on the person what ever floats their boat This Topic Could Just Go On I Still Agree With My First Opion But

I Always Love To Put In My 2 cents Everyone Must Work Out Their Own Salvation Paths And God Deals With Every Person In His Own Way For His Reasons to every creature and every living thing as a purpose under heaven Not Changing The Subject But I For One BELIEVE ALL DOGS Go To Heaven And Haaaaaaaa I believe they Do And I Also Believe In I Cant Spell It Re~In~Car~Nation That Depends On The Person As Well Im Sure If Some One Died And For What Ever Reason GOD Would Want Him To Come Back As A Dog Like Like In The Movie Fluke And Yes Im Serious

Sincirr · 03-05-2005, 02:10 AM

HD and FM, why do U insist on defending such crap!

Read these verses!

Hebrews 9:27
just as man is destined to die once, AND AFTER THAT, to recieve judgement.

NOPE! baptism of the dead does nothing! Too late!!!!

It even says in Hebrews 4 that those that have even had the gospel preached to them will not necessarily make it so whats with this baptism crap!
it's between U and God. Thats all.

Yet another gimmick to get numbers! Makes me sick. False hope, false gospel. False religion.

Sincirr · 03-05-2005, 03:04 AM

Tried to stay away from this thread but after seeing the abused word of God, I had to intervene.

I hope people that read those verses read this!

Quote: (Originally Posted by Higher_Desire) Again, very wrong. No one gets their own planet. There is nothing that says anyone can or has. See, you think you know things about the LDS church, but you don't.

I did not ask U this time about the planet thing, I asked FM, who is now an elder and should have been told. And I know mormons and practicing mormons at that so please dont tell me that what your own brothers have told me is not true.

Obviously U didnt ask your officials like I asked you to. Please do HD. Theres no harm in it. Just ask.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Facelessman's verses on baptizing the dead) John 5:25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."

The word for dead, nekrosthat is used here is used figuratively man. It can be used that way and its pretty obvious that it is! Look at the verses before this one, particularly the one JUST before!

v 24: I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned;he has crossed over from death to life
They arent dead, just dead figuratively. Just like the eyes of the blind being opened. Yours are still blind so U wont get that one.

Oh and what about this one that U quoted, and conveniently left out the rest of:
[b]v 28: Do not be amazed at this for a time will come when alll who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out-those who have done good will rise to live and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.[/B]

So if they did evil whilst being alive, is a dead-baptism gonna help em? No me thinks.

Quote: (Originally Posted by FM) 1 peter 3:19 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison"

NONONONO!!! That is so sneaky and horrible!

the prison refered to here is HELL, where the people of Noah's time that did not listen are now;

And he is not saying that he preached to them in hell, he is saying that those guys, while living, had a chance as God sent the spirit of Jesus that "preached" to them but they ignored Him.

The word preached is being used in a past tense that U are taking advantage of to prove your point. A deceptive point at that. But that is pretty characteristic of your religion.

Higher_Desire · 03-05-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) HD and FM, why do U insist on defending such crap!

Read these verses!

Hebrews 9:27
just as man is destined to die once, AND AFTER THAT, to recieve judgement.

NOPE! baptism of the dead does nothing! Too late!!!!

It even says in Hebrews 4 that those that have even had the gospel preached to them will not necessarily make it so whats with this baptism crap!
it's between U and God. Thats all.

Yet another gimmick to get numbers! Makes me sick. False hope, false gospel. False religion.

So once you're dead God is not willing to forgive and give second chances? Death is the end-all?

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr's BS) I did not ask U this time about the planet thing, I asked FM, who is now an elder and should have been told. And I know mormons and practicing mormons at that so please dont tell me that what your own brothers have told me is not true.

Obviously U didnt ask your officials like I asked you to. Please do HD. Theres no harm in it. Just ask.

If practicing members told you that, then they don't know their religion. I have read about it, I have asked leadership, and I know what I'm talking about. This is the basis of the foundation of that belief: we believe that (as it says in the Bible) we can become gods (Gen. 3:5, Ps. 82:6). We become LIKE God in every way, yet are still followers of him and are subject to his rule. ALL rightous can become as God. Even you. Any person judged as worthy of entering into heaven CAN become gods. Now don't get me wrong with what I'm saying. One can NEVER become THE God. There is only one God. We can have the power to create worlds, but UNDER DIRECTION OF THE FATHER. This is how it's been explained in the past: A forman has a construction crew. They need to build a house. The builders can do it themselves, but must ask the forman and use his direction. This is the same thing. Don't just talk to people you know. Take your own advice, and ask high ranking church officials (ie, Bishop, Stake President, Patriarch, etc.)

Just a question to you now. Who is more likely to go to hell: The Christian who works to please God, spread his word, and bring people to him, OR someone who doesn't tolerate freedom of religion and tells people that they are wrong, full of crap, false, and sets judgement upon them when they don't even know all the answers?

H-D

aussiecreeder · 03-05-2005, 11:53 PM

We have this life to choose the path we take so yes after death according to scripture there is no second chance. Baptism for the dead is right up there with the Catholic doctrine of giving money for family members to escape purgatory (or have sentences reduced) IMO.

creedsister · 03-06-2005, 10:45 AM

Sincirr · 03-07-2005, 06:01 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Higher_Desire) So once you're dead God is not willing to forgive and give second chances? Death is the end-all?

Read my bible quotes. Start facing up to the truth.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Higher_Desire) we believe that (as it says in the Bible) we can become gods

Just like satan, your downfall is that you believe U can be like God, knowing good and evil" (as it says in the bible, Genesis 3:5). You're still under the curse. Get free. Get Jesus.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Higher_Desire) We can have the power to create worlds, but UNDER DIRECTION OF THE FATHER.

The power to create worlds...sounds like U get your own planet to me!

Quote: (Originally Posted by Higher_Desire) Don't just talk to people you know. Take your own advice, and ask high ranking church officials (ie, Bishop, Stake President, Patriarch, etc.)?

I did talk to a Mormon bishop. Youre being lied to. And your church approved books wont tell U the truth because they are altered.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Higher_Desire) Just a question to you now. Who is more likely to go to hell: The Christian who works to please God, spread his word, and bring people to him, OR someone who doesn't tolerate freedom of religion and tells people that they are wrong, full of crap, false, and sets judgement upon them when they don't even know all the answers?

Youre saying I am basically going to hell. Nice judgement there. You're no better off than I

Though your refer to my comments as "BS" and wont bother to take them in, in answer to your question:

Just cos U work to serve God does NOT mean anything if U dont know the true Christ. Jesus said that some will come and say "hang on! I cast out DEMONS in your name! What do U mean I am going to hell???" and still he will reply, "I never knew you".

I cant believe U took a freedom of religion tollerance stab at me when basically you Mormons think that you have the answers and every other religion doesnt! Why do your brothers come to my door and still try to convert me if it is otherwise!

And I WILL defend the word of God because it is truth and as the Pharisees, you will find out when U die, that U have been defending a lie. Man it sux!

Facelessman! What did your leaders tell you! Speak up!

facelessman · 03-07-2005, 08:23 AM

sorry sincirr, thee gospel is the gospel, and youre trying to pervert it. we gave you countless of proofs of the nessesity of baptism. a true believer, after he gains faith in the Lord, will be baptised, why? because its a commandment, and if you love him, youll keep his commandments. theres not end to it, ok. if so, the apostles wouldnt have continued to preach it. if so, they wouldnt have baptised people. lets take for example, when Paul was imprisoned in acts 16, and converted the guards. a guard asked him what he has to do to be saved, and paul to them to believe and youll be saved. then what did paul do 2 verses later? he baptised them. why, becuase baptism is the next step after you believe, and a requirment to enter into the kingdom of heaven. but thanks to ppl perverting the gospel, we now have false teachings in the world. now, thanks to modern revelation that the only true church recieves from the Lord himself, we know the importance of baptism. and i know these things are true and theres nothing you can do to change that. and since im running out of time, and ill be back to continue add more scriptures. thank you.

Sincirr · 03-07-2005, 08:37 AM

I NEVER SAID BAPTISM WAS WRONG!

I said that baptism of the dead was pointless.

About the planet thing. While U R online: Tell us what they have told you about getting your own planet. I know they have told U.

Higher_Desire · 03-07-2005, 08:58 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) Read my bible quotes. Start facing up to the truth.

I did read your quotes. Let's look at the verse 28 for example. The good will live and the evil will be condemned. That comes after the final judgement and the resurrection. In the resurrection, the spirit will rejoin the body. Just like what happened to Jesus when he was resurrected. There's a big long space between death and there. Maybe you need to learn the background of verses.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) Just like satan, your downfall is that you believe U can be like God, knowing good and evil" (as it says in the bible, Genesis 3:5). You're still under the curse. Get free. Get Jesus.

I am free. I got Jesus.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) The power to create worlds...sounds like U get your own planet to me!

Sounds like you didn't read my example.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) I did talk to a Mormon bishop. Youre being lied to. And your church approved books wont tell U the truth because they are altered.

Well I don't know what to tell you. Maybe talk to another one. Not all of them know the same amount and understand doctrine in the same way. Plus, it seems you twist words around anyway. You probably twisted his.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) Youre saying I am basically going to hell. Nice judgement there. You're no better off than I

I never said that. I told you to make the judgement.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) Though your refer to my comments as "BS" and wont bother to take them in, in answer to your question:

Just cos U work to serve God does NOT mean anything if U dont know the true Christ. Jesus said that some will come and say "hang on! I cast out DEMONS in your name! What do U mean I am going to hell???" and still he will reply, "I never knew you".

Read the passage again. He's talking to the people who did it for show and/or money.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) I cant believe U took a freedom of religion tollerance stab at me when basically you Mormons think that you have the answers and every other religion doesnt! Why do your brothers come to my door and still try to convert me if it is otherwise!

Everyone has the right to choose their path. We don't have ALL the answers, and never claim to. We say we have MOST of the answers. God has not made all of his secrets known. We're told that in the Bible. We believe we have MORE of the truth than other churches. The elders still try to convert you because it's what they've been called to do. They dedicate two years of their lives to converting people to Christ. Maybe, one day, you should actually talk to them.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) And I WILL defend the word of God because it is truth and as the Pharisees, you will find out when U die, that U have been defending a lie. Man it sux!

Well, if I am going down, at least I know I'm not alone 12 Million+ will be going down with me. And, if heaven is filled with people like you, I'm glad I'm not there.

Quote: (Originally Posted by facelessman) sorry sincirr, thee gospel is the gospel, and youre trying to pervert it. we gave you countless of proofs of the nessesity of baptism. a true believer, after he gains faith in the Lord, will be baptised, why? because its a commandment, and if you love him, youll keep his commandments. theres not end to it, ok. if so, the apostles wouldnt have continued to preach it. if so, they wouldnt have baptised people. lets take for example, when Paul was imprisoned in acts 16, and converted the guards. a guard asked him what he has to do to be saved, and paul to them to believe and youll be saved. then what did paul do 2 verses later? he baptised them. why, becuase baptism is the next step after you believe, and a requirment to enter into the kingdom of heaven. but thanks to ppl perverting the gospel, we now have false teachings in the world. now, thanks to modern revelation that the only true church recieves from the Lord himself, we know the importance of baptism. and i know these things are true and theres nothing you can do to change that. and since im running out of time, and ill be back to continue add more scriptures. thank you.

Well said, my friend.

H-D

aussiecreeder · 03-07-2005, 09:08 PM

what is the point of getting in a theological arguement (one that i believe that sincirr is right in btw) if both sides are going to argue like a couple of spoilt politicans?

creedsister · 03-08-2005, 09:16 AM

haaaaaaaaaa its cool i very much like reading their opions

Sincirr · 03-10-2005, 07:43 AM

There is so much that I could reply to but I wont. I will say though, that I do not have an issue with baptism, except for the dead. That is all.

I also believe that God IS here on earth, via the Holy Spirit, which Jesus refers to as The Comforter. I also believe that THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES TEACH US!, God does speak today, And God is at work on the earth. I am not alone by any means.

I also need to say that I am not your enemy FM and HD. Use your brains! The fight is not against flesh and blood. I dont hate U. I never will. Sorry if you got hurt, but U R not the ones my arrows were aimed at.

But in truth, all I have heard is deception from almost every single mormon I have spoken to. Only 2 have answered my questions truthfully and taken me seriously enough not to lie to my face or try to manipulate me into converting.

aussiecreeder is right. No point in arguing theology cos all it does is make people say that they would rather be in hell than be in a place if you are in it, so I will stop cos its not helping. Thank you AC.

But I hope it helped someone out there that is wondering about mormonism, that is not trapped yet. It is a cult. Any belief system that makes you state, "...and I cut off all ties with Jesus Christ" when you leave the so called religion, is a cult. It is based on control, not grace. Please be careful.

Higher_Desire · 03-10-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) There is so much that I could reply to but I wont. I will say though, that I do not have an issue with baptism, except for the dead. That is all.

I also believe that God IS here on earth, via the Holy Spirit, which Jesus refers to as The Comforter. I also believe that THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES TEACH US!, God does speak today, And God is at work on the earth. I am not alone by any means.

I also need to say that I am not your enemy FM and HD. Use your brains! The fight is not against flesh and blood. I dont hate U. I never will. Sorry if you got hurt, but U R not the ones my arrows were aimed at.

But in truth, all I have heard is deception from almost every single mormon I have spoken to. Only 2 have answered my questions truthfully and taken me seriously enough not to lie to my face or try to manipulate me into converting.

aussiecreeder is right. No point in arguing theology cos all it does is make people say that they would rather be in hell than be in a place if you are in it, so I will stop cos its not helping. Thank you AC.

But I hope it helped someone out there that is wondering about mormonism, that is not trapped yet. It is a cult. Any belief system that makes you state, "...and I cut off all ties with Jesus Christ" when you leave the so called religion, is a cult. It is based on control, not grace. Please be careful.

Thank you for that, Sincirr. I agree with everything you said except for the last paragraph. Mormonism is NOT a cult. Honestly, I have never heard of the quote you posted for when people leave. One person I recently met is a former mormon, and he is now a Baptist minister. I have also heard of others who are still religious. I'm just going to leave it at that. It's just something I haven't heard.

This is my personal, overall belief: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are very alive and their work happens all over the world because of men and women who believe in their existence. There are many religions and they all differ from each other. When all is said and done, the most important thing is not what church you've dedicated your life to, but what you did to better yourself, to better others, and how your life was dedicated to the genuine love of others and the work of God. I believe you do not have to be Mormon to go to heaven. I know many people who are not mormon who are some of the greatest people one can know. I am Mormon because of what the church has taught me about God, life, and service. The world only knows such a small sliver of the secrets of God, and nobody anywhere has all of the answers. Find what works for you. The bottom line, in my opinion, is how dedicated your life was to Jesus Christ and following his example and his teachings.

H-D

02-27-2005, 02:34 PM	#16
Higher_Desire USER INFO » Status: Found Peace Posts: 8,631 Joined: Apr 2003 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Alter Shredder) OK I understand that in the Church of LDS you baptize the dead by someone standing in and representing the person. is this a correct understanding? Yes, that's a more correct understanding. The person is standing as a proxy. The prayer for the baptism of the dead is exactly like the prayer for the living (as used in many churches including the LDS), but includes "I baptize you for and in behalf of ___ who is dead" after calling your name and ending with "in the name of the father, the son and the holy ghost, amen." Quote: (Originally Posted by Alter Shredder) If so the other people are making the choice not the individual themselves, otherwise they would have done so while living. They had their time on earth and if they die suddenly so be it. They had the choice before...they chose not to. We cannot baptize someone who is dead, did not make the choice for themselves, however we can hope God shows his mercy, but it is clearly stated that you have to be baptized. As for those who truly have not heard about Christ or God, well we have to hope there as well, but then again, it says go and make disciples of all nations, so it is our duty to make sure they have heard and have the chance to make that choice. So it all comes down to the individuals choice to accept christ. No one else can do that for you. That last sentence is right. After you die, you still have your free agency to act however you want. We can still make choices. The gift of choice can never be taken away from us. We will always be able to think for ourselves. If someone has not had the oppurtunity to hear of Christ, but must to be saved, we believe that they are taught in heaven. Afterwards, they have the choice to make of whether to accept it or not. If they choose to accept it and are baptized for on earth, they can progress through the kingdoms of heaven (Celestial = top, Terrestrial = middle, Telestial = lower). Now, I know you're going to challenge that statement, but think about it, if you were absolutely perfect in your life and did everything right, would you want to live with someone who could barely sqeek by into heaven? or vice versa? Because we still have the agency to choose, people will still choose not to believe, just as people still don't believe here on earth. And, before you ask, you're not taught by God or Jesus. You're taught by the faithful who believed on earth and are asked to become teachers. There's a lot more I could write about that, but let me sum it up by saying this: when you die, you don't automatically go to Heaven or Hell. You go to a type of "holding ground" per se, where you wait to be judged. This is where you are taught. God and Jesus are not physically here. Then, you are judged, and go to either heaven or hell, depending on how you are judged. If you accept, you have to have all the proper work done on earth before you can go all the way to the highest tier. That is why we do work for dead. H-D __________________ Today I'm gonna try a little harder Gonna make every minute last longer Gonna learn to forgive and forget 'Cause we don't have long Gonna make the most of it Today I'm gonna love my enemies Reach out to somebody who needs me Make a change, make the world a better place 'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late --lyrics from "One Day Too Late" by Skillet from their new album "Awake"

03-01-2005, 09:43 PM	#17
creedsister USER INFO » Status: Tree of Wisdom Posts: 8,290 Joined: Oct 2003 Currently: Offline	i agree with some of what your saying but it all depends on the person what ever floats their boat This Topic Could Just Go On I Still Agree With My First Opion But I Always Love To Put In My 2 cents Everyone Must Work Out Their Own Salvation Paths And God Deals With Every Person In His Own Way For His Reasons to every creature and every living thing as a purpose under heaven Not Changing The Subject But I For One BELIEVE ALL DOGS Go To Heaven And Haaaaaaaa I believe they Do And I Also Believe In I Cant Spell It Re~In~Car~Nation That Depends On The Person As Well Im Sure If Some One Died And For What Ever Reason GOD Would Want Him To Come Back As A Dog Like Like In The Movie Fluke And Yes Im Serious __________________ Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything

03-05-2005, 06:12 PM	#20
Higher_Desire USER INFO » Status: Found Peace Posts: 8,631 Joined: Apr 2003 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) HD and FM, why do U insist on defending such crap! Read these verses! Hebrews 9:27 just as man is destined to die once, AND AFTER THAT, to recieve judgement. NOPE! baptism of the dead does nothing! Too late!!!! It even says in Hebrews 4 that those that have even had the gospel preached to them will not necessarily make it so whats with this baptism crap! it's between U and God. Thats all. Yet another gimmick to get numbers! Makes me sick. False hope, false gospel. False religion. So once you're dead God is not willing to forgive and give second chances? Death is the end-all? Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr's BS) I did not ask U this time about the planet thing, I asked FM, who is now an elder and should have been told. And I know mormons and practicing mormons at that so please dont tell me that what your own brothers have told me is not true. Obviously U didnt ask your officials like I asked you to. Please do HD. Theres no harm in it. Just ask. If practicing members told you that, then they don't know their religion. I have read about it, I have asked leadership, and I know what I'm talking about. This is the basis of the foundation of that belief: we believe that (as it says in the Bible) we can become gods (Gen. 3:5, Ps. 82:6). We become LIKE God in every way, yet are still followers of him and are subject to his rule. ALL rightous can become as God. Even you. Any person judged as worthy of entering into heaven CAN become gods. Now don't get me wrong with what I'm saying. One can NEVER become THE God. There is only one God. We can have the power to create worlds, but UNDER DIRECTION OF THE FATHER. This is how it's been explained in the past: A forman has a construction crew. They need to build a house. The builders can do it themselves, but must ask the forman and use his direction. This is the same thing. Don't just talk to people you know. Take your own advice, and ask high ranking church officials (ie, Bishop, Stake President, Patriarch, etc.) Just a question to you now. Who is more likely to go to hell: The Christian who works to please God, spread his word, and bring people to him, OR someone who doesn't tolerate freedom of religion and tells people that they are wrong, full of crap, false, and sets judgement upon them when they don't even know all the answers? H-D __________________ Today I'm gonna try a little harder Gonna make every minute last longer Gonna learn to forgive and forget 'Cause we don't have long Gonna make the most of it Today I'm gonna love my enemies Reach out to somebody who needs me Make a change, make the world a better place 'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late --lyrics from "One Day Too Late" by Skillet from their new album "Awake"

03-06-2005, 10:45 AM	#22
creedsister USER INFO » Status: Tree of Wisdom Posts: 8,290 Joined: Oct 2003 Currently: Offline	:d __________________ Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything

03-07-2005, 08:58 PM	#26
Higher_Desire USER INFO » Status: Found Peace Posts: 8,631 Joined: Apr 2003 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) Read my bible quotes. Start facing up to the truth. I did read your quotes. Let's look at the verse 28 for example. The good will live and the evil will be condemned. That comes after the final judgement and the resurrection. In the resurrection, the spirit will rejoin the body. Just like what happened to Jesus when he was resurrected. There's a big long space between death and there. Maybe you need to learn the background of verses. Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) Just like satan, your downfall is that you believe U can be like God, knowing good and evil" (as it says in the bible, Genesis 3:5). You're still under the curse. Get free. Get Jesus. I am free. I got Jesus. Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) The power to create worlds...sounds like U get your own planet to me! Sounds like you didn't read my example. Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) I did talk to a Mormon bishop. Youre being lied to. And your church approved books wont tell U the truth because they are altered. Well I don't know what to tell you. Maybe talk to another one. Not all of them know the same amount and understand doctrine in the same way. Plus, it seems you twist words around anyway. You probably twisted his. Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) Youre saying I am basically going to hell. Nice judgement there. You're no better off than I I never said that. I told you to make the judgement. Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) Though your refer to my comments as "BS" and wont bother to take them in, in answer to your question: Just cos U work to serve God does NOT mean anything if U dont know the true Christ. Jesus said that some will come and say "hang on! I cast out DEMONS in your name! What do U mean I am going to hell???" and still he will reply, "I never knew you". Read the passage again. He's talking to the people who did it for show and/or money. Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) I cant believe U took a freedom of religion tollerance stab at me when basically you Mormons think that you have the answers and every other religion doesnt! Why do your brothers come to my door and still try to convert me if it is otherwise! Everyone has the right to choose their path. We don't have ALL the answers, and never claim to. We say we have MOST of the answers. God has not made all of his secrets known. We're told that in the Bible. We believe we have MORE of the truth than other churches. The elders still try to convert you because it's what they've been called to do. They dedicate two years of their lives to converting people to Christ. Maybe, one day, you should actually talk to them. Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) And I WILL defend the word of God because it is truth and as the Pharisees, you will find out when U die, that U have been defending a lie. Man it sux! Well, if I am going down, at least I know I'm not alone 12 Million+ will be going down with me. And, if heaven is filled with people like you, I'm glad I'm not there. Quote: (Originally Posted by facelessman) sorry sincirr, thee gospel is the gospel, and youre trying to pervert it. we gave you countless of proofs of the nessesity of baptism. a true believer, after he gains faith in the Lord, will be baptised, why? because its a commandment, and if you love him, youll keep his commandments. theres not end to it, ok. if so, the apostles wouldnt have continued to preach it. if so, they wouldnt have baptised people. lets take for example, when Paul was imprisoned in acts 16, and converted the guards. a guard asked him what he has to do to be saved, and paul to them to believe and youll be saved. then what did paul do 2 verses later? he baptised them. why, becuase baptism is the next step after you believe, and a requirment to enter into the kingdom of heaven. but thanks to ppl perverting the gospel, we now have false teachings in the world. now, thanks to modern revelation that the only true church recieves from the Lord himself, we know the importance of baptism. and i know these things are true and theres nothing you can do to change that. and since im running out of time, and ill be back to continue add more scriptures. thank you. Well said, my friend. H-D __________________ Today I'm gonna try a little harder Gonna make every minute last longer Gonna learn to forgive and forget 'Cause we don't have long Gonna make the most of it Today I'm gonna love my enemies Reach out to somebody who needs me Make a change, make the world a better place 'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late --lyrics from "One Day Too Late" by Skillet from their new album "Awake"

03-08-2005, 09:16 AM	#28
creedsister USER INFO » Status: Tree of Wisdom Posts: 8,290 Joined: Oct 2003 Currently: Offline	haaaaaaaaaa its cool i very much like reading their opions __________________ Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything

03-10-2005, 10:49 AM	#30
Higher_Desire USER INFO » Status: Found Peace Posts: 8,631 Joined: Apr 2003 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr) There is so much that I could reply to but I wont. I will say though, that I do not have an issue with baptism, except for the dead. That is all. I also believe that God IS here on earth, via the Holy Spirit, which Jesus refers to as The Comforter. I also believe that THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES TEACH US!, God does speak today, And God is at work on the earth. I am not alone by any means. I also need to say that I am not your enemy FM and HD. Use your brains! The fight is not against flesh and blood. I dont hate U. I never will. Sorry if you got hurt, but U R not the ones my arrows were aimed at. But in truth, all I have heard is deception from almost every single mormon I have spoken to. Only 2 have answered my questions truthfully and taken me seriously enough not to lie to my face or try to manipulate me into converting. aussiecreeder is right. No point in arguing theology cos all it does is make people say that they would rather be in hell than be in a place if you are in it, so I will stop cos its not helping. Thank you AC. But I hope it helped someone out there that is wondering about mormonism, that is not trapped yet. It is a cult. Any belief system that makes you state, "...and I cut off all ties with Jesus Christ" when you leave the so called religion, is a cult. It is based on control, not grace. Please be careful. Thank you for that, Sincirr. I agree with everything you said except for the last paragraph. Mormonism is NOT a cult. Honestly, I have never heard of the quote you posted for when people leave. One person I recently met is a former mormon, and he is now a Baptist minister. I have also heard of others who are still religious. I'm just going to leave it at that. It's just something I haven't heard. This is my personal, overall belief: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are very alive and their work happens all over the world because of men and women who believe in their existence. There are many religions and they all differ from each other. When all is said and done, the most important thing is not what church you've dedicated your life to, but what you did to better yourself, to better others, and how your life was dedicated to the genuine love of others and the work of God. I believe you do not have to be Mormon to go to heaven. I know many people who are not mormon who are some of the greatest people one can know. I am Mormon because of what the church has taught me about God, life, and service. The world only knows such a small sliver of the secrets of God, and nobody anywhere has all of the answers. Find what works for you. The bottom line, in my opinion, is how dedicated your life was to Jesus Christ and following his example and his teachings. H-D __________________ Today I'm gonna try a little harder Gonna make every minute last longer Gonna learn to forgive and forget 'Cause we don't have long Gonna make the most of it Today I'm gonna love my enemies Reach out to somebody who needs me Make a change, make the world a better place 'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late --lyrics from "One Day Too Late" by Skillet from their new album "Awake"

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