"Americans kill dozens of prisoners"

[Tremontixriffs]

Uncertain does make a few valid points, even though we totally disagree on alot of things. I think as a human race we are destined to destroy ourselves. The good will be saved while the bad rot in hell for the atrocities they committ. I dont know if any of you guys have read the predictions that nostradamus fortold but to be honest Im getting a little concerned with the direction the world is going. Its been five years since 9/11 and you got to believe that Osama is up to something big and I really hope we get that fuck before he comes up with any more killing sprees.

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by bilal)

I ll be glad if u can present ANY facts to authenticate ur statement my freind............ Just blaming my religion for all the tention muslim countries have today is rediculous.............. its true religions have always been at war with each other .............. but here ur just being pointless and obsured............... and i hate to say...... a little biased too

Give me a break. When you have Islamo-fascists executing innocent men in women while chanting "God is great" you can't tell me that religion doesn't play a part in that. What about these people are promised a bunch of virgins in Heaven if they go blow up a shopping mall, killing themselves and dozens of innocent people in the process? Islam is exporting violent extremists who target innocent people. There's nothing but hatred, violence, intolerance, and human rights violence being spewed out of the Middle East and what's most disturbing is that this has been the story since the 14 Century.

They are obviously unable to coexist with non-Muslims... or even Muslims of different religious sects for that matter... and that is a result of Islam.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I never said Bush is God. That is so absurd. I think Bush is in the wrong religion, I think he is often a nut head. I never said Islam is evil either. But would it surprise anyone I think they are responsible for a LOT of problems? I think the religion is totally false and built off a lie, it focuses on the degredation of women, the defeat of the infidels, war war war. Someone please show me where this HASN'T been a major thing Islam has focused on. When have they been peaceful? Im not saying every individual is a warmonger, but the religion as a whole seems to breed violence. You can say it doesn't mean to if you really want (I have never read much of the koran, or however you spell it) but regardless of what it means to do it DOES cause a lot of problems.

I can agree that islam is a religion still in the 14 century spreading violence...but still its our opinion...our western opinion...that of course is biased...but I cant say their religion is false...

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

B]When Christianity was expanding rapidly at the beginning of the calendar, it did so by conversion and peaceful means.[/b] Islam just conquered everyone

I think you miss you history classes...

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

You think I think America represents goodness? Ummm... hello? We murder millions a year and basically created the morally corrupt and depraved generation we now live in. Rampant sexuality, pornography, abortion, lack of morals, etc. etc. Are all children of America. America is the anti-Islam. Islam is what happens when you use a religious idea to make war. America is what happens when you get rid of all Religious ideals period. Islam isn't responsible for all the world's problems. America has plenty to do with that, as does Germany, Russia, Britain etc. etc.

I can see good points in here...and Im glad you at least recognize the (bad) part of your country in this situation...

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

But I'm not gonna sit here and say "Oh yeah, Islam has been a quiet peaceful state for all time and a few extremists are ruining its name" because that just is not true.

Did you ever sit and notice that they think the same about your America...its too much a biased and naive opinion to put all the blame just in Islamism ...and completely ignoring the enormous problem WE have...

[uncertaindrumer]

I don't care what they think. I didn't go kill three thousand of them did I?

And yeah, Christianity DID initially spread through conversion. It ALWAYS spreads mthrough conversion. Some people TRY to force it on others but it has never and most likely will never work. You can't force someone to be a Christian.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Give me a break. When you have Islamo-fascists executing innocent men in women while chanting "God is great" you can't tell me that religion doesn't play a part in that. What about these people are promised a bunch of virgins in Heaven if they go blow up a shopping mall, killing themselves and dozens of innocent people in the process? Islam is exporting violent extremists who target innocent people. There's nothing but hatred, violence, intolerance, and human rights violence being spewed out of the Middle East and what's most disturbing is that this has been the story since the 14 Century.

They are obviously unable to coexist with non-Muslims... or even Muslims of different religious sects for that matter... and that is a result of Islam.

Again...my point is...religion is being used by governements and fake leaders...to control people and keep them ignorant...what its necessary in my opinion is a revolution in islamic world to put the people aware of their social rights and consequently to take this kind of extremists off the power...

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote:

and completely ignoring the enormous problem WE have...

And the enormous problem we have is...?

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote:

and what's most disturbing is that this has been the story since the 14 Century.

Since the 8th century.

Quote:

aware of their social rights

They don't really have any. And don't tell me they have intrinsic social rights either. Only a religion could ever logically claim such a thing and that's what you are blaming.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I don't care what they think. I didn't go kill three thousand of them did I?
.

WOW!!!!!! Now you will help me to put my point....America (West) simply doenst CARE about others people...countries.. social probelms ...dictaorships ...abuses...whatever...you just care NOW...because you were attacked in your 'happy way of life'...and now you noticed that Islamic world exists...

Its a very christian position btw...

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Since the 8th century.



They don't really have any. And don't tell me they have intrinsic social rights either. Only a religion could ever logically claim such a thing and that's what you are blaming.

Hey...when you quote someone...put the name...right? --I thought you were quoting Chase...anyway...I didnt understand why you quote me ..I said they dont have rights...but that they need to realize the importance of it...

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

And the enormous problem we have is...?

INTOLERANCE...in every possible kind of this ...

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

WOW!!!!!! Now you will help me to put my point....America (West) simply doenst CARE about others people...countries.. social probelms ...dictaorships ...abuses...whatever...you just care NOW...because you were attacked in your 'happy way of life'...and now you noticed that Islamic world exists...

Its a very christian position btw...

Besides suggesting we rely on the UN to solve all the worlds problems with resolutions and treaties that always end up ignored, what's the solution? Education?, sure if it can be delivered without an anti anybody bias.
I suppose western forces could've stayed out of the middle east, but did the middle eastern conflicts stay out of the western world?(Isreal)
I do tend to approach things sort of one sided. My way of life is under attack and I can't summon the "wisdom" of neutrality.

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

WOW!!!!!! Now you will help me to put my point....America (West) simply doenst CARE about others people...countries.. social probelms ...dictaorships ...abuses...whatever...you just care NOW...because you were attacked in your 'happy way of life'...and now you noticed that Islamic world exists...

Its a very christian position btw...

What are you talking about? Hitler never sent a bomb to North America, but we still shed American blood over the Old World (Europe)... twice in fact.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

What are you talking about? Hitler never sent a bomb to North America, but we still shed American blood over the Old World (Europe)... twice in fact.

Chase...im curious....what did you study besides WWII?

[RalphyS]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RoffeDH)

Ralphys! Were in sweden are you going? I live here... Not the best of times to visit us thuogh...

I visited the towns of Karlsbäck and Bjurholm and the city of Umio. I had an excellent time, with beautiful weather, outstanding food, great partying, meeting very exceptional people and a winning icehockey-team.

At a later time, I will put some photo's up on our website www.aowekino.nl .

[RalphyS]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I never said Bush is God. That is so absurd. I think Bush is in the wrong religion, I think he is often a nut head. I never said Islam is evil either. But would it surprise anyone I think they are responsible for a LOT of problems? I think the religion is totally false and built off a lie, it focuses on the degredation of women, the defeat of the infidels, war war war. Someone please show me where this HASN'T been a major thing Islam has focused on. When have they been peaceful? Im not saying every individual is a warmonger, but the religion as a whole seems to breed violence. You can say it doesn't mean to if you really want (I have never read much of the koran, or however you spell it) but regardless of what it means to do it DOES cause a lot of problems.

There is no true religion, all religions are false and there are extremists or a better word maybe fundamentalists of all religions over the world, who prove it on a day to day basis..., but that's just my humble opinion on the matter.

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Someone wants proof? Islam took over half the world in a matter of years. there have been religious wars between Islam and... everyone... ever since. Don't try to tell me that isn't Islam's fault. When Christianity was expanding rapidly at the beginning of the calendar, it did so by conversion and peaceful means. Islam just conquered everyone.

You might think this is all lacking in tact but the gist is true. I am not saying, either, that "Christians" haven't used their own God for ridiculous purposes. But usually they do it in spite of their God, not because of their God.

The islam has been a religion, that depended on war to increase itself for a long time. But the Christian crusaders were maybe even more cruel and relentless, also Christianity has forced itself on the people of Africa and America with its missionaries, accompanied by soldiers, who forced natives to become Christian or be killed. Anyway I do believe Christianity has become more moderate and that Islam has a long way to go in that, but I don't think Christianity deserves any praise for that. The enlightenment and the increase in liberal-humanistic values and the separation of church and state and the freedom of expression, media and even the freedom to mock things c.q. institutions is what has made the west more moderate and less tolerant to the radical religious. In other words education about the atrocities made in the name of religion and the lies spread in the name of God has made the West less susceptible to being lied to about things happening in the name of God. This lesson still needs to be learned in most islam nations. And the most frightening thing to the radical islam is that the learning of lesson in the end will be inevitable, this is why they strike out so hard against anything that will open doors to do so.

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

You think I think America represents goodness? Ummm... hello? We murder millions a year and basically created the morally corrupt and depraved generation we now live in. Rampant sexuality, pornography, abortion, lack of morals, etc. etc. Are all children of America. America is the anti-Islam. Islam is what happens when you use a religious idea to make war. America is what happens when you get rid of all Religious ideals period. Islam isn't responsible for all the world's problems. America has plenty to do with that, as does Germany, Russia, Britain etc. etc. But I'm not gonna sit here and say "Oh yeah, Islam has been a quiet peaceful state for all time and a few extremists are ruining its name" because that just is not true.

The American dream used to be what many in the world aspired, but as the saying goes: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. As long as the USA had a counterpart in the communist East, there seemed to be a worldwide system of checks and balances, ofcourse everyone in the free world, was on the side of the USA at that time. But as the iron curtain fell and the USA became the only superpower, its tendencies also became more dictatorial instead of based on cooperation. Statements like 'you are either for us or against us' leave no room for a third opinion. It is no longer allowed to disagree without being treated as an enemy. Laws are being fascillitated to invade friendly countries.

I both fear islam, because it is an unenlightened absolute religion, and the state to which conservatism has led the USA, I hope in both cases education is the answer and that in the end reason will prevail.