"Americans kill dozens of prisoners" - Page 9

RalphyS · 03-03-2006, 04:12 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) no, that is most definitely not a Christian view. if that's the way you see Christianity, I am deeply sorry for whatever you have experienced that has made it such. Political Christianity, as used by Bush and crusaders, is not truly Christianity. I won't get into it too much in this forum, but loving one another is at the heart of the religion. So, it is very un-Christian to be secluded in your "happy way of life" and to not care if something doesn't directly affect you. Yes, that might be how states that are historically Christian might act, but the fact that the U.S. doesn't act unless acted upon doesn't stem from its Christian roots. Instead, our country was isolationist, really, up until the Cold War, so we have a good 200-300 years (including the colonial period) of not caring entirely too much what was going on in the Eastern Hemisphere.

All religions claim to be about peace and love, but history and current news time and time again show us the atrocities committed by 'true believers'. Most Christians in the USA consider the islam a terrorist religion, I believe. I think the part that Uncertain Drummer claims as being his backbone, the absolutism of religion, is just the thing that is the most terrifying about religion. How can you be tolerant towards other views, if your religion teaches you that your view is right and that other views are absolutely wrong. But still I don't begrudge anyone his absolute belief as long as they do not impose it upon me or others, who do not share it. And this is were religion mostly goes wrong, because God's law should be imposed onto everyone. Muslims will not allow non-muslims to draw cartoons about Mohammed, Christians will not allow non-Christians to have an abortion or marry someone of their own gender, the list goes on and on. This is also the problem I have with religion. Do not tell me about the laws of your Christian God or of Allah, to me they hold no ground, unless they have proven themselves to be beneficial for the society I live in. There should be no absolute laws, every law is up for change in certain situations or if circumstances change.

RalphyS · 03-03-2006, 04:28 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) this isn't exactly a new concept. all throughout the Cold War, the US used operatives in Latin America and Asia to bring about democratic change in certain countries, to "save" them from having a socialist or communist regime. we even supported corrupt bastards like Chiang (RoC/Taiwan) in an effort to prevent the spread of communism.

Well I do think the 'spread of democracy'-concept is a new one. Sure the US was very busy involved with governments in Latin America and Asia during and even after the cold war, but it had nothing to do with spreading democracy. They didn't care if the countries were democratic or led dictatorialy as long as they were not under communistic or even socialistic influence. I think the support of the military coup by Pinochet in Chili and the opposition to the democratically elected Allende is the perfect example for it. Another good example is the support that the oppressing apartheid-regime in South Africa got from the US. It might not be always out in the open, but the US backed those governments, which were all but democratic.

So involvement of the US in other nation's governments surely isn't a new concept, but calling it 'the spreading of democracy' is, but in fact I think it's just another slogan for the same game. We see how democracy has triumped in Palestine and how the USA is now standing on the barriers to support the democratically elected government there

The same thing applies to Iraq, in totally free elections there would probably come a very islamist government that might even adopt sharia-law, I do not think that is what the US wants. They want influence and a government that is friendly to the US, whether it is democratic or placed in any other way. And in these cases I even agree, democracy isn't always the answer, because not only in the USA, as Uncertain Drummer stated, but all over the world the majority seem to be d.mb f.cks, pardon my French.

Chase · 03-03-2006, 04:36 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) Okay...but forget the WWII for one moment and try to put some recent examples...

The Kosovo war in 1999 ousted Slobadan Milosevic.

RalphyS · 03-03-2006, 04:38 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) I disagree. I think the elecetion of Bush again came from a total lack of a countering candidate (Kerry? please.), and the thought that Bush would never be able to marshall support for another war, and the fact that Kerry supported this war to begin with too! So I think Bush getting elected again was not the result of people's happiness with the war but with a lack of a better candidate.

I never understood what was so wrong about Kerry, ofcourse I considered him to moderate and not liberal enough, but nonetheless. But the major thing is in this case, I wouldn't have needed a better candidate, less worse than Bush was enough, which comes down to anyone but Bush. And I do blame the American public for his re-election, especially the red(neck) states ofcourse. There were very few times that I was more disappointed than after Dubya's re-election.

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) Well if one believes, abortion, contraception, engaging in homosexuality etc. etc. are wrong, certainly one could think that the U.S.A. is too tolerant? The world for that matter.

I advice you to not engage in things that you think/belief are wrong and let others make their own decision about these things (unless their decision would be harmfull to you as a person, and I don't mean psychologically). That would be the tolerant position, in my opinion.

RalphyS · 03-03-2006, 04:46 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase) I honestly think the Republicans will wrap up the '08 election if John McCain runs... I don't think someone like Hillary Clinton stands a chance against him.

I wished McCain would have beaten Bush as a Republican nominee, I could have lived with him and many Europeans with me, I think.

He isn't a bad candidate, he could maybe lessen the democratic-republican rift that's driving the US apart at this time, if, and I do think it's a big if, he can resist the urge to play nice for the right wing of the republican party.

However I would still support any democratic candidate more, but at least it wouldn't be a choice between good and evil.

RalphyS · 03-03-2006, 04:55 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase) The Kosovo war in 1999 ousted Slobadan Milosevic.

Actually Milosevic is another example of how democracy can fail, as he was democratically elected.

And in this case he is also an example of how a democratic revolution can triumph, as he was ousted by the Servian people after he tried to corrupt a new election.

So he wasn't exactly removed by the USA, although the Kosovo-war surely was of influence.

uncertaindrumer · 03-03-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) evidently we can't use our knowledge of history to draw our own conclusions

but, seriously, when European states (Britain, Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands) moved into Africa, it's really no secret that Christianity was basically forced upon the "pagan" natives. Religious organizations from those colonizing states played a key role in setting up colonial governments and, more importantly, education systems. Because of these rigid controls, the vast majority of Africans living under the various colonial administrations had Christianity forced upon them. Even today, the "brand" of Christianity practiced in most parts of Africa is blended with various rituals culled from the African Traditional Religions (the general name for the multitude of local and tribal religions), such that African Christianity differs a great deal from that practiced in the U.S. and Europe.

Which Christians did this exactly? I know it must not have been a majorly Catholic problem. If it was, I'd hear about all the time...

uncertaindrumer · 03-03-2006, 08:19 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) I never understood what was so wrong about Kerry, ofcourse I considered him to moderate and not liberal enough, but nonetheless. But the major thing is in this case, I wouldn't have needed a better candidate, less worse than Bush was enough, which comes down to anyone but Bush. And I do blame the American public for his re-election, especially the red(neck) states ofcourse. There were very few times that I was more disappointed than after Dubya's re-election.

Well I think Kerry was worse than Bush, so we disagree there. But either way, I agree on Bush's total incompetance.

Quote: I advice you to not engage in things that you think/belief are wrong and let others make their own decision about these things (unless their decision would be harmfull to you as a person, and I don't mean psychologically). That would be the tolerant position, in my opinion.

And this is the opinion of a self proclaimed atheist. No offense but seeing as you believe in nothing, your opinion carries very little weight. But nonetheless I wsa talking about what is socially acceptable, not necessarily what is legal. I would not ban contraception even though I think it is a great evil that has contributed to many of the problems of the last century. I just find it deperessing that it is now not only socially acceptable but socially expected.

On other issues, such as abortion, I certainly WOULD outlaw it if given the chance, since many lives are at stake.

But yeah, anyway I was talking more along the lines of what is seen as acceptable/unacceptable. I mean, just the way people dress these days is disgusting, but is seen as usual and desirable.

uncertaindrumer · 03-03-2006, 08:21 AM

Quote: Actually Milosevic is another example of how democracy can fail, as he was democratically elected.

I think the modern obsession with the idea that democracy is perfect and incorruptible and always works is one of the most ridiculously pathetic and incorrect notions of all time...

Ana4Stapp · 03-03-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase) The Kosovo war in 1999 ousted Slobadan Milosevic.

Sorry my friend..but did U.S. take Slobodan Milosevic away from the power ALONE ? The U.S. was involved in the Kosovo War...but its different from removing Milosevic from the power...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War

Quote: March 24, 1999: NATO sees its first broad-scale military engagement in the Kosovo War, where it wages an 11-week bombing campaign against what was then the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The United States has opposed efforts to require the U.N. Security Council to approve NATO military strikes, such as the ongoing action against Yugoslavia. France and some other NATO countries have said the alliance needs U.N. approval. American officials say that would undermine the authority of the alliance, and they note that Russia and China would have exercised their Security Council vetoes to block the strike on Yugoslavia. Conflict ends on June 11, 1999, when Yugoslavian leader Slobodan Milošević agrees to NATO's demands. Currently, NATO operates the military peacekeeping mission in Kosovo as part of the 18,000 personnel KFOR force.

And Ralphy is right, his downfall was the result of a popular revolution ...
see this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_Revolution

facelessmike · 03-03-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) Well I think Kerry was worse than Bush, so we disagree there. But either way, I agree on Bush's total incompetance.

How true!

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) All religions claim to be about peace and love, but history and current news time and time again show us the atrocities committed by 'true believers'. Most Christians in the USA consider the islam a terrorist religion, I believe.

It is important to make a distinction between the terrorists and the religion itself. Most Americans, Christians or not, do this. Islam is not considered a terrorist religion; most Muslims are not terrorists, but peace-loving people. Islam does not teach or encourage terrorism. Its just that the terrorists happen to be Muslim and have a distorted peprception of a supposedly religious agenda. This isnt a holy war against the religion of Islam; its a fight against terrorism.

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) But nonetheless I wsa talking about what is socially acceptable, not necessarily what is legal. I would not ban contraception even though I think it is a great evil that has contributed to many of the problems of the last century. I just find it deperessing that it is now not only socially acceptable but socially expected.

You wont find many disagree that the moral position of society has greatly declined over the last century. However, contraception is vital to modern society by preventing more serious problems on a great scale.

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) So involvement of the US in other nation's governments surely isn't a new concept They want influence and a government that is friendly to the US.

Bingo!

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase) What? Like fighting for Cuba's freedom from Spain, like liberating the Chinese, Koreans, and Filipinos from Imperial Japan? Like ending Hitler's rampage through Europe? If it wasn't for war... the political landscape of Europe and Asia would be very different. War sucks... but at times is necessary.

It's sad but true. Democracy may not be perfect, but is not evil.

uncertaindrumer · 03-03-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

No, you are wrong... they certainly have a plan: keep people ignorant...its their plan...here or there..its the same plan .

Not really. Politicians are just as dumb as everyone else, lol

Quote: We all live in society...our families live and learn obviously trhough the others genereations...do you want to me to answer "God"? Im confused...you confused me ...

You are evading the question. You can't just say they "learn". First off, whatever they "learned" is not working, and second, where did they "learn" it from?

Quote: There should be no absolute laws, every law is up for change in certain situations or if circumstances change.

This is despicable. That whole post was the definiton of why we as a people are in such deep poop. If every law can change, there are no real laws. They don't DO anything, since they can "change" at will. By your logic, there is absolutely nothing wrong with me taking a gun and killing you. Nothing. After all, laws are subject to change, and if I want to change them I can.

And you say how can we be tolerant when we claim someone else is wrong? First off, that is ludicrous, and second off, who says we should be tolerant? As usual people throw out these words as if they are just known to be good. You have no idea why we should be tolerant. You just assume that.

Ana4Stapp · 03-03-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) I think the modern obsession with the idea that democracy is perfect and incorruptible and always works is one of the most ridiculously pathetic and incorrect notions of all time...

Looking through this perspective, democracy is very far from perfection...even in Athens democracy wasnt for everybody...there were restrictions to certain groups :women, children, slaves, foreigners and resident aliens had no rights to participate in the assembly. The Citizenship rights were limited strictly to male, adult, non-slave Athenians of citizen descent. So, this concept of democracy as something 'perfect and incorruptible' is very recent and obviously wrong...

Ana4Stapp · 03-03-2006, 11:43 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) Not really. Politicians are just as dumb as everyone else, lol

Not sure...this is a very naive conclusion...

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) You are evading the question. You can't just say they "learn". First off, whatever they "learned" is not working, and second, where did they "learn" it from?

So YOU in your extreme wisdom and tolerance could explain your points to me...

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) who says we should be tolerant? As usual people throw out these words as if they are just known to be good. You have no idea why we should be tolerant. You just assume that.

Religions should advocate tolerance...right?

uncertaindrumer · 03-03-2006, 11:47 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) Not sure...this is a very naive conclusion...

Nah. I'm just not being serious.

Quote: So YOU in your extreme wisdom and tolerance could explain your points to me...

?? You can't come up with a basis for your thoughts on social rights at all?

Quote: Religions should advocate tolerance...right?

Uh... maybe? Who knows? I'm playing dumb here but that is often necessary to show people the massive, MASSIVE assumptions they make.

03-03-2006, 04:12 AM	#121
RalphyS USER INFO » Status: A Melody Posts: 340 Joined: Nov 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) no, that is most definitely not a Christian view. if that's the way you see Christianity, I am deeply sorry for whatever you have experienced that has made it such. Political Christianity, as used by Bush and crusaders, is not truly Christianity. I won't get into it too much in this forum, but loving one another is at the heart of the religion. So, it is very un-Christian to be secluded in your "happy way of life" and to not care if something doesn't directly affect you. Yes, that might be how states that are historically Christian might act, but the fact that the U.S. doesn't act unless acted upon doesn't stem from its Christian roots. Instead, our country was isolationist, really, up until the Cold War, so we have a good 200-300 years (including the colonial period) of not caring entirely too much what was going on in the Eastern Hemisphere. All religions claim to be about peace and love, but history and current news time and time again show us the atrocities committed by 'true believers'. Most Christians in the USA consider the islam a terrorist religion, I believe. I think the part that Uncertain Drummer claims as being his backbone, the absolutism of religion, is just the thing that is the most terrifying about religion. How can you be tolerant towards other views, if your religion teaches you that your view is right and that other views are absolutely wrong. But still I don't begrudge anyone his absolute belief as long as they do not impose it upon me or others, who do not share it. And this is were religion mostly goes wrong, because God's law should be imposed onto everyone. Muslims will not allow non-muslims to draw cartoons about Mohammed, Christians will not allow non-Christians to have an abortion or marry someone of their own gender, the list goes on and on. This is also the problem I have with religion. Do not tell me about the laws of your Christian God or of Allah, to me they hold no ground, unless they have proven themselves to be beneficial for the society I live in. There should be no absolute laws, every law is up for change in certain situations or if circumstances change. __________________ And if you want my address, it's number 1 at the end of the bar Ralphy's Cool Music Site www.aowekino.nl

03-03-2006, 04:28 AM	#122
RalphyS USER INFO » Status: A Melody Posts: 340 Joined: Nov 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) this isn't exactly a new concept. all throughout the Cold War, the US used operatives in Latin America and Asia to bring about democratic change in certain countries, to "save" them from having a socialist or communist regime. we even supported corrupt bastards like Chiang (RoC/Taiwan) in an effort to prevent the spread of communism. Well I do think the 'spread of democracy'-concept is a new one. Sure the US was very busy involved with governments in Latin America and Asia during and even after the cold war, but it had nothing to do with spreading democracy. They didn't care if the countries were democratic or led dictatorialy as long as they were not under communistic or even socialistic influence. I think the support of the military coup by Pinochet in Chili and the opposition to the democratically elected Allende is the perfect example for it. Another good example is the support that the oppressing apartheid-regime in South Africa got from the US. It might not be always out in the open, but the US backed those governments, which were all but democratic. So involvement of the US in other nation's governments surely isn't a new concept, but calling it 'the spreading of democracy' is, but in fact I think it's just another slogan for the same game. We see how democracy has triumped in Palestine and how the USA is now standing on the barriers to support the democratically elected government there The same thing applies to Iraq, in totally free elections there would probably come a very islamist government that might even adopt sharia-law, I do not think that is what the US wants. They want influence and a government that is friendly to the US, whether it is democratic or placed in any other way. And in these cases I even agree, democracy isn't always the answer, because not only in the USA, as Uncertain Drummer stated, but all over the world the majority seem to be d.mb f.cks, pardon my French. __________________ And if you want my address, it's number 1 at the end of the bar Ralphy's Cool Music Site www.aowekino.nl

03-03-2006, 04:36 AM	#123
Chase USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,160 Joined: Oct 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) Okay...but forget the WWII for one moment and try to put some recent examples... The Kosovo war in 1999 ousted Slobadan Milosevic.

03-03-2006, 04:38 AM	#124
RalphyS USER INFO » Status: A Melody Posts: 340 Joined: Nov 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) I disagree. I think the elecetion of Bush again came from a total lack of a countering candidate (Kerry? please.), and the thought that Bush would never be able to marshall support for another war, and the fact that Kerry supported this war to begin with too! So I think Bush getting elected again was not the result of people's happiness with the war but with a lack of a better candidate. I never understood what was so wrong about Kerry, ofcourse I considered him to moderate and not liberal enough, but nonetheless. But the major thing is in this case, I wouldn't have needed a better candidate, less worse than Bush was enough, which comes down to anyone but Bush. And I do blame the American public for his re-election, especially the red(neck) states ofcourse. There were very few times that I was more disappointed than after Dubya's re-election. Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) Well if one believes, abortion, contraception, engaging in homosexuality etc. etc. are wrong, certainly one could think that the U.S.A. is too tolerant? The world for that matter. I advice you to not engage in things that you think/belief are wrong and let others make their own decision about these things (unless their decision would be harmfull to you as a person, and I don't mean psychologically). That would be the tolerant position, in my opinion. __________________ And if you want my address, it's number 1 at the end of the bar Ralphy's Cool Music Site www.aowekino.nl

03-03-2006, 04:46 AM	#125
RalphyS USER INFO » Status: A Melody Posts: 340 Joined: Nov 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase) I honestly think the Republicans will wrap up the '08 election if John McCain runs... I don't think someone like Hillary Clinton stands a chance against him. I wished McCain would have beaten Bush as a Republican nominee, I could have lived with him and many Europeans with me, I think. He isn't a bad candidate, he could maybe lessen the democratic-republican rift that's driving the US apart at this time, if, and I do think it's a big if, he can resist the urge to play nice for the right wing of the republican party. However I would still support any democratic candidate more, but at least it wouldn't be a choice between good and evil. __________________ And if you want my address, it's number 1 at the end of the bar Ralphy's Cool Music Site www.aowekino.nl

03-03-2006, 04:55 AM	#126
RalphyS USER INFO » Status: A Melody Posts: 340 Joined: Nov 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase) The Kosovo war in 1999 ousted Slobadan Milosevic. Actually Milosevic is another example of how democracy can fail, as he was democratically elected. And in this case he is also an example of how a democratic revolution can triumph, as he was ousted by the Servian people after he tried to corrupt a new election. So he wasn't exactly removed by the USA, although the Kosovo-war surely was of influence. __________________ And if you want my address, it's number 1 at the end of the bar Ralphy's Cool Music Site www.aowekino.nl

03-03-2006, 08:12 AM	#127
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) evidently we can't use our knowledge of history to draw our own conclusions but, seriously, when European states (Britain, Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands) moved into Africa, it's really no secret that Christianity was basically forced upon the "pagan" natives. Religious organizations from those colonizing states played a key role in setting up colonial governments and, more importantly, education systems. Because of these rigid controls, the vast majority of Africans living under the various colonial administrations had Christianity forced upon them. Even today, the "brand" of Christianity practiced in most parts of Africa is blended with various rituals culled from the African Traditional Religions (the general name for the multitude of local and tribal religions), such that African Christianity differs a great deal from that practiced in the U.S. and Europe. Which Christians did this exactly? I know it must not have been a majorly Catholic problem. If it was, I'd hear about all the time... __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

03-03-2006, 08:19 AM	#128
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) I never understood what was so wrong about Kerry, ofcourse I considered him to moderate and not liberal enough, but nonetheless. But the major thing is in this case, I wouldn't have needed a better candidate, less worse than Bush was enough, which comes down to anyone but Bush. And I do blame the American public for his re-election, especially the red(neck) states ofcourse. There were very few times that I was more disappointed than after Dubya's re-election. Well I think Kerry was worse than Bush, so we disagree there. But either way, I agree on Bush's total incompetance. Quote: I advice you to not engage in things that you think/belief are wrong and let others make their own decision about these things (unless their decision would be harmfull to you as a person, and I don't mean psychologically). That would be the tolerant position, in my opinion. And this is the opinion of a self proclaimed atheist. No offense but seeing as you believe in nothing, your opinion carries very little weight. But nonetheless I wsa talking about what is socially acceptable, not necessarily what is legal. I would not ban contraception even though I think it is a great evil that has contributed to many of the problems of the last century. I just find it deperessing that it is now not only socially acceptable but socially expected. On other issues, such as abortion, I certainly WOULD outlaw it if given the chance, since many lives are at stake. But yeah, anyway I was talking more along the lines of what is seen as acceptable/unacceptable. I mean, just the way people dress these days is disgusting, but is seen as usual and desirable. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

03-03-2006, 08:21 AM	#129
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: Actually Milosevic is another example of how democracy can fail, as he was democratically elected. I think the modern obsession with the idea that democracy is perfect and incorruptible and always works is one of the most ridiculously pathetic and incorrect notions of all time... __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

03-03-2006, 11:30 AM	#132
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) No, you are wrong... they certainly have a plan: keep people ignorant...its their plan...here or there..its the same plan . Not really. Politicians are just as dumb as everyone else, lol Quote: We all live in society...our families live and learn obviously trhough the others genereations...do you want to me to answer "God"? Im confused...you confused me ... You are evading the question. You can't just say they "learn". First off, whatever they "learned" is not working, and second, where did they "learn" it from? Quote: There should be no absolute laws, every law is up for change in certain situations or if circumstances change. This is despicable. That whole post was the definiton of why we as a people are in such deep poop. If every law can change, there are no real laws. They don't DO anything, since they can "change" at will. By your logic, there is absolutely nothing wrong with me taking a gun and killing you. Nothing. After all, laws are subject to change, and if I want to change them I can. And you say how can we be tolerant when we claim someone else is wrong? First off, that is ludicrous, and second off, who says we should be tolerant? As usual people throw out these words as if they are just known to be good. You have no idea why we should be tolerant. You just assume that. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

03-03-2006, 11:47 PM	#135
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners" Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) Not sure...this is a very naive conclusion... Nah. I'm just not being serious. Quote: So YOU in your extreme wisdom and tolerance could explain your points to me... ?? You can't come up with a basis for your thoughts on social rights at all? Quote: Religions should advocate tolerance...right? Uh... maybe? Who knows? I'm playing dumb here but that is often necessary to show people the massive, MASSIVE assumptions they make. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

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