Proof that Christianity is the Way

[Rocketqueen]

Anarkist Blah Blah i can see when that sometimes is needed the precious Donna he works on my nerves too at times but you must patient and understanding to the need of the others , as hard as it is sometimes i think i made his ignore list HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Opion Is Good dont let him work your nerves shortcake da Anarkist working Donna Hugs

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr)

You really hate that people have their own opinions dont you! Well too bad, cos we believe in God and He made us to HAVE a mind to make up our own opinions.

I notice you say you BELIEVE that god exists well I can tell you that the FACTS say otherwise shit I can Believe that my daughter is a boy but it doesn't make it so. I run with belief when you can run with more factual and realistic things??

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr)

Plus he has revealed Himself to us, whether U respect that or not! And I hope He reveals Himself to you so U will leave us the hell alone!

Oh but he did reveal himself to me so I charged him with indecent exposure and they threw him in jail

How is it that I live in a bubble Sincirr? I have lived on both sides of the fence here if you look back in to the history of this board you will see my early posts as JESTER they are stupid and naive. Then I actually decided to get some education and learn about church history and science and what have you. Now I am an Atheist I have good reason to be and until one walks the path that I have walked they can not tell me that I live in a bubble nor can they tell me that god (in any way shape or form) exists.

[Rocketqueen]

well Anarkist who do you think created all these Agurments so we could go figure in the first place ,

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rocketqueen)

well Anarkist who do you think created all these Agurments so we could go figure in the first place ,

that makes no sence please restate

[SecretWeapon]

Quote:

How is it that I live in a bubble Sincirr? I have lived on both sides of the fence here if you look back in to the history of this board you will see my early posts as JESTER they are stupid and naive. Then I actually decided to get some education and learn about church history and science and what have you. Now I am an Atheist I have good reason to be and until one walks the path that I have walked they can not tell me that I live in a bubble nor can they tell me that god (in any way shape or form) exists.

Well then , i guess you've thought that , in the rare ,all but impossibility
of there actually being a creator of the universe , and that somehow,
someway by some chance , He is who the bible says He is , what excuse would you have when He judges your soul in the end?
"Well God , I asked some people who dont beleve in you , and dont give a rats ass about me , if you existed and they said no , so i believed them.
But I really am a good person and i dont deserve to be punished for my doubt, in light of your perfect proof for the X years i was on the earth,
so please dont kill me . *puppy face* "

Well , good luck with that. He gave you Love , and suffered and was brutally murdered naked for all to see so that you could have a chance to be with Him, but you spat in His face , so i dont imagine that^ excuse will be a very good one . But He still loves you and will take you back if you only admit you were wrong and ask for Him back , and live your life for Him.

[Rocketqueen]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist)

that makes no sence please restate

i will later, i,ll shout at ya but i wont drop you HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

Well then , i guess you've thought that , in the rare ,all but impossibility
of there actually being a creator of the universe , and that somehow,
someway by some chance , He is who the bible says He is , what excuse would you have when He judges your soul in the end?
"Well God , I asked some people who dont beleve in you , and dont give a rats ass about me , if you existed and they said no , so i believed them.
But I really am a good person and i dont deserve to be punished for my doubt, in light of your perfect proof for the X years i was on the earth,
so please dont kill me . *puppy face* "

Well , good luck with that. He gave you Love , and suffered and was brutally murdered naked for all to see so that you could have a chance to be with Him, but you spat in His face , so i dont imagine that^ excuse will be a very good one . But He still loves you and will take you back if you only admit you were wrong and ask for Him back , and live your life for Him.

I love how Xtianity uses fear to keep people in line

"You should believe in Jesus"

"why?"

"Because if you don't then you are gonna burn in hell"

But seriously there is more evidence for a historical Santa than there is for a historical Jesus. The one thing that I can not stand from the Xtians is the fact that they claim that I was never a Xtian to begin with..... Really that’s funny because according to your book I was. They find it absolutely impossible that some one could actually reject the faith and do something they desperately fear THINK. I have noticed that many here trump faith over fact and that is a sad state. I could have faith that I will fly to work tomorrow with out the assistance of any machine but we all know that that would be foolish because we know it to be scientifically impossible for some one to fly. But when it comes to your gods no one wants to hear what science has to say about it which IMHO is hypocrisy.

So please give me some argument I have yet to hear no the same old hum-drum shit that the church spews every day and twice on sunday.

[RalphyS]

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

Well then , i guess you've thought that , in the rare ,all but impossibility
of there actually being a creator of the universe , and that somehow,
someway by some chance , He is who the bible says He is , what excuse would you have when He judges your soul in the end?
"Well God , I asked some people who dont beleve in you , and dont give a rats ass about me , if you existed and they said no , so i believed them.
But I really am a good person and i dont deserve to be punished for my doubt, in light of your perfect proof for the X years i was on the earth,
so please dont kill me . *puppy face* "

Well , good luck with that. He gave you Love , and suffered and was brutally murdered naked for all to see so that you could have a chance to be with Him, but you spat in His face , so i dont imagine that^ excuse will be a very good one . But He still loves you and will take you back if you only admit you were wrong and ask for Him back , and live your life for Him.

But maybe your unproven God's test is harder than you think, and hell is waiting for you: The End of Pascal's Wager: Only Nontheists Go to Heaven

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

But maybe your unproven God's test is harder than you think, and hell is waiting for you: The End of Pascal's Wager: Only Nontheists Go to Heaven

Nice one Ralphy


I had totally forgoten about this article from the great Richard Carrier. that site is a great resource

[SecretWeapon]

Don't be a fool. You don't think I've seen the "evidence"
against God's existance? I grew up in the public school , where
evolution is preached with a passion. I know the "evidence"
well . As a very curious child ,I've heard almost all the theories
and ideas about dinosaurs ,and space , life , earth , etc ...
I have seen and studied much of the misinformation that you
evolutionist shove down the public's throat. I DO know that
evolution lacks the evidence to hold it up as a theory. The
hypothosis of evolution (aka theory of evolution) is a highly improbable
idea , a naive attemp of man which says that time+chance can create
the world we live in , and even catagorizes humans with apes ,
an unproved connection which is taught as though it's fact to our children.
There has been NO evidence of the precious "missing link".
As if there's ONE missing link! According to you guys , there are
several links , none of which have been found or proven. There
have been instances in which evolutionist tried to convince the
world that they'd found proof of "the" missing link- one man confessed that the
tooth belonged to an extinct pig , another time the scientist admitted
that his "find" (a bone) belonged to a local ape. Not to mention ,
whenever there is possible evidence against evolution , what happens?
Some people show up and destroy the evidence. Who? Why , none
other than evolutionists. It seems that , instead of being open-minded,
serious scientists, interested in learning the truth about our world,
they turn out to be tyrannic , flawed people who revere evolution
as the ultimate religion. Yes , I said it , evolution is a RELIGION.
Why else would so many people die for it , murder for it , steal for it ,
and cheat for it , destroying the possible evidence of the truth? That's
not science , my friends , that's RELIGION. Moving away from evolution,
I'd like to talk about the origin of existance. Either

A) The world was created by an all powerful God.

B) The entire universe was once contained in an impossibly dense
sphere the size of the head of a pen ,and suddenly burst open ,
spreading all matter across existance ,and the universe we know today
are the reprocusions of this magnificent burst. (The Big Bang)

or

C)The universe has always existed

Well , considering , the VERY VERY HIGH improbability of all matter
being held in a very dense body (which still does NOT explain how
the tiny body of matter was created in the first place) ,and ,also
considering Newtons laws of movement , ie , an object in motion
tends to stay in motion ,unless acted upon by an outside force,
and AN OBJECT WITHOUT MOTION TENDS TO STAY WITHOUT
MOTION UNLESS ACTED UPON BY AN OUTSIDE FORCE ,
we must conclude that this idea is completely and utterly wrong,
until proof is provided that says otherwise , until man makes
a universe in a test tube , we cannot accept this idea.

Also , according to the vast majority of scientists , everything
in the universe is in a process , which they were all put in
at the creation of the universe. Everything in the universe is changing,
and the universe is expanding , clearly this could not have been the case
an ENFINITY back into the past ... No , the universe had to have been
created at some time , by something or Someone.


There , now that I've done my best to denounce the notion of
there being no God , I have yet to show that our God is indeed
a personal loving God. Which is easy , we were created by Him,
we were created with the capacity to love , therefore , our
Creator must understand love. We were created with the
ability to communicate with each other , even without
speaking the same language , we can communicate the most
important things . Therefore , our Creator must understand
communication , after all , He gave us that gift.

And now , it has been tried for centuries , but has been proven
impossible - to seperate the physical Jesus from the spiritual Jesus.
Men have tried since before the Reformation to seperate "the two" .
Anyone you've met on the internet or in real life who says they have
proof are lying. As said in the book of Proverbs , "they are lying in wait
to snare your soul".

There are dozens and dozens of prophecies in the old testament
of the messiah , who would become sin , and die so that the sin
that all mankind was cursed with at his fall could be forgiven.
And that , once the sin was gone , God would raise Him from the
dead , all power in heaven and earth would be given to Him ,
and it is He who will judge everyone's soul , after they've had
their whole lifetime to come to Him ,accepting His sacrifice.
The odds that EVEN 10 OF THESE PROPHECIES TO BE FULFILLED
IN ONE HUMAN BEING ARE EXTREMELY , EXTREMELY SLIM.
Jesus fulfilled EVERY SINGLE ONE.

He was God's gift of Love , of forgiveness. Jesus is our passionate,
loving God , come to save us . Jesus said Himself that He was the
Messiah ,to deny Him that is to call Him insane. By reading
His words , we can easily see the he was perfectly sane .

We have found much proof in archeology , especially in Egypt
that many of the miracles (especially of Moses' time) were true.
And that the Bible is history , we have found many places that
the Bible talks about , we have evidence that would suggest a
worldwide flood , talked about in Genisis.

All in all , there is NOT enough proof , in all the world
that could convince me that all existance can be brought down to
Time+Chance. According to your logic , if we placed a can of
Campbells chicken noodle soup on the floor , and watched for long
enough , even billions of years , that life , eventually human life,
would spring from that can of soup. After all, it has all the
nessasary amino acids , protiens , not to mention water , in order
for life to form. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Even if life is created
from scratch in a test tube , that STILL does not prove that life
can be created without intellegent life . I mean , duh , that's just
commom sense ...


Thus I am left with one conclusion-

That there is a God who exists , He is everything the Bible
says He is , the Bible is the ultimate book of truth ,
there is no room for evolution , big bang theories ,
or chicked noodle soup human civilizations.

GOD IS TRUE AND HE IS WHO THE BIBLE SAYS HE IS .

If you say no , then I do very much pity you , my brother .
You are mentioned in the Bible ,too ,actually. It says,
"He will give them over to their reprobate minds" And so
you have proven the Bible as truth , even in your disbelief.

Last , but certainly not least , I know God to be true
from personal experience . Had you lived my life ,and seen the
unexplainable (and ,trust me , I don't say "unexplainable" lightly)
things which I have seen , had you felt the amazing Grace and Peace that
I have felt , then you would have NO DOUBT either. I am very sorry
for your decision to reject Him.

I think that covers just about everything.

With love ,
your still potential brother in Christ,
Ryan

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

Don't be a fool. You don't think I've seen the "evidence"
against God's existance? I grew up in the public school , where
evolution is preached with a passion. I know the "evidence"
well . As a very curious child ,I've heard almost all the theories
and ideas about dinosaurs ,and space , life , earth , etc ...
I have seen and studied much of the misinformation that you
evolutionist shove down the public's throat. I DO know that
evolution lacks the evidence to hold it up as a theory. The
hypothosis of evolution (aka theory of evolution) is a highly improbable
idea , a naive attemp of man which says that time+chance can create
the world we live in , and even catagorizes humans with apes ,
an unproved connection which is taught as though it's fact to our children.
There has been NO evidence of the precious "missing link".
As if there's ONE missing link! According to you guys , there are
several links , none of which have been found or proven. There
have been instances in which evolutionist tried to convince the
world that they'd found proof of "the" missing link- one man confessed that the
tooth belonged to an extinct pig , another time the scientist admitted
that his "find" (a bone) belonged to a local ape. Not to mention ,
whenever there is possible evidence against evolution , what happens?
Some people show up and destroy the evidence. Who? Why , none
other than evolutionists. It seems that , instead of being open-minded,
serious scientists, interested in learning the truth about our world,
they turn out to be tyrannic , flawed people who revere evolution
as the ultimate religion. Yes , I said it , evolution is a RELIGION.
Why else would so many people die for it , murder for it , steal for it ,
and cheat for it , destroying the possible evidence of the truth? That's
not science , my friends , that's RELIGION. Moving away from evolution,
I'd like to talk about the origin of existance. Either

Who said that you cannot have Evolution with god?? I mean did you ever consider that your god used evolution as a tool.

Regardless There have been plenty of as you put it "missing links" that have been produced when you ask for just one but when one is produced you ask for another and an other and so on.... your camp just keeps moving the goal posts because every time a fossil is produced it creates another gap that your camp wants filled nothing is good enough for you people there in lies the problem with you people.

Evolution is a theory there is evidence for it we see species adapt before our very eyes (the Finch comes to mind) and you to deny it even to be a theory is laughable considering that you are a creationist (which is a hypothesis at best). Check out talkorigins.com is you want to actually get the facts on Evolution.

Quote:

A) The world was created by an all powerful God.

B) The entire universe was once contained in an impossibly dense
sphere the size of the head of a pen ,and suddenly burst open ,
spreading all matter across existance ,and the universe we know today
are the reprocusions of this magnificent burst. (The Big Bang)

or

C)The universe has always existed

You are commitng fallacy here the "either or fallacy" did you consider that maybe there is a possibility that there might be another option??

Matter can neither be created nor destroyed (the laws of thermodynamics) laws that your camp loves to trump (only when they work in your favor mind you). Which again is cherry picking which is also fallacy. Getting back to the point the fact of the matter is that matter always was and always will be... there for the solid state universe is a very plausible theory.

Quote:

Well , considering , the VERY VERY HIGH improbability of all matter
being held in a very dense body (which still does NOT explain how
the tiny body of matter was created in the first place) ,and ,also
considering Newtons laws of movement , ie , an object in motion
tends to stay in motion ,unless acted upon by an outside force,
and AN OBJECT WITHOUT MOTION TENDS TO STAY WITHOUT
MOTION UNLESS ACTED UPON BY AN OUTSIDE FORCE ,
we must conclude that this idea is completely and utterly wrong,
until proof is provided that says otherwise , until man makes
a universe in a test tube , we cannot accept this idea.

I hate to break it to you but the big bang is being thrown by the wayside they find the red shift to be unreliable they have for that the universe isn't moving at all another point for the solid state universe.

Quote:

Also , according to the vast majority of scientists , everything
in the universe is in a process , which they were all put in
at the creation of the universe. Everything in the universe is changing,
and the universe is expanding , clearly this could not have been the case
an ENFINITY back into the past ... No , the universe had to have been
created at some time , by something or Someone.

Do tell me your sources I would be interested

Quote:

.......more mindless dribble

There are dozens and dozens of prophecies in the old testament
of the messiah , who would become sin , and die so that the sin
that all mankind was cursed with at his fall could be forgiven.
And that , once the sin was gone , God would raise Him from the
dead , all power in heaven and earth would be given to Him ,
and it is He who will judge everyone's soul , after they've had
their whole lifetime to come to Him ,accepting His sacrifice.
The odds that EVEN 10 OF THESE PROPHECIES TO BE FULFILLED
IN ONE HUMAN BEING ARE EXTREMELY , EXTREMELY SLIM.
Jesus fulfilled EVERY SINGLE ONE.

please give some biblical referance rather than just your say so

Quote:

.....more dribble we have heard over 10000 times

We have found much proof in archeology , especially in Egypt
that many of the miracles (especially of Moses' time) were true.
And that the Bible is history , we have found many places that
the Bible talks about , we have evidence that would suggest a
worldwide flood , talked about in Genisis.

There is not archeological proof that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt or for the account of Exodus. There is no evidence for a world wide flood and anyone who says different is fooling themselves or trying to sell you something.

Quote:

All in all , there is NOT enough proof , in all the world
that could convince me that all existance can be brought down to
Time+Chance. According to your logic , if we placed a can of
Campbells chicken noodle soup on the floor , and watched for long
enough , even billions of years , that life , eventually human life,
would spring from that can of soup. After all, it has all the
nessasary amino acids , protiens , not to mention water , in order
for life to form. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Even if life is created
from scratch in a test tube , that STILL does not prove that life
can be created without intellegent life . I mean , duh , that's just
commom sense ...

This obviously shows that you have no understanding of the theory of Evolution which is funny since you say you have a good understanding of it.

Quote:

Thus I am left with one conclusion-

That there is a God who exists , He is everything the Bible
says He is , the Bible is the ultimate book of truth ,
there is no room for evolution , big bang theories ,
or chicked noodle soup human civilizations.

GOD IS TRUE AND HE IS WHO THE BIBLE SAYS HE IS .

If you say no , then I do very much pity you , my brother .
You are mentioned in the Bible ,too ,actually. It says,
"He will give them over to their reprobate minds" And so
you have proven the Bible as truth , even in your disbelief.

Last , but certainly not least , I know God to be true
from personal experience . Had you lived my life ,and seen the
unexplainable (and ,trust me , I don't say "unexplainable" lightly)
things which I have seen , had you felt the amazing Grace and Peace that
I have felt , then you would have NO DOUBT either. I am very sorry
for your decision to reject Him.

I think that covers just about everything.

With love ,
your still potential brother in Christ,
Ryan

And your conclusion is that of nothing but refusing to examine any evidence from the other side.

[Lunar Shadow]

oops double post

[RalphyS]

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

Don't be a fool. You don't think I've seen the "evidence"
against God's existance? I grew up in the public school , where
evolution is preached with a passion. I know the "evidence"
well . As a very curious child ,I've heard almost all the theories
and ideas about dinosaurs ,and space , life , earth , etc ...
I have seen and studied much of the misinformation that you
evolutionist shove down the public's throat. I DO know that
evolution lacks the evidence to hold it up as a theory. The
hypothosis of evolution (aka theory of evolution) is a highly improbable
idea , a naive attemp of man which says that time+chance can create
the world we live in , and even catagorizes humans with apes ,
an unproved connection which is taught as though it's fact to our children.
There has been NO evidence of the precious "missing link".
As if there's ONE missing link! According to you guys , there are
several links , none of which have been found or proven. There
have been instances in which evolutionist tried to convince the
world that they'd found proof of "the" missing link- one man confessed that the
tooth belonged to an extinct pig , another time the scientist admitted
that his "find" (a bone) belonged to a local ape. Not to mention ,
whenever there is possible evidence against evolution , what happens?
Some people show up and destroy the evidence. Who? Why , none
other than evolutionists. It seems that , instead of being open-minded,
serious scientists, interested in learning the truth about our world,
they turn out to be tyrannic , flawed people who revere evolution
as the ultimate religion. Yes , I said it , evolution is a RELIGION.
Why else would so many people die for it , murder for it , steal for it ,
and cheat for it , destroying the possible evidence of the truth? That's
not science , my friends , that's RELIGION.

Wow, what a lot of rambling nonsense.
The definition of religion is "a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny"". In evolution there is no such thing as a supernatural power, in fact that is the whole explanation, there is a natural development of species, they evolve through natural selection based on selective pressures in the environment.

Also there is no such thing as a missing link. This is a centuries old analogy based on a "chain" metaphor. This metaphor should be abandoned because it implies a sequential stepwise progression of evolution. It also implies that there are "certain links" in the chain that are missing and must be found. The idea that adaptations are sequential in progression is a misconception. It ain't necessarily so, that somehow we evolve in a ladder of increasing complexity. Mutations occur randomly throughout nature's past. It is only by random mutation that new traits allow species to survive. Some misconstrue this adaptation concept to mean that living species somehow pass on genetic material to alter their offspring. This is not true. It is random changes that produce differences and these randomly acquired new traits determine whether the descendants will survive or become extinct.

Another problem with the the chain metaphor is that it implies that species are distinct, unique, fixed entities with identical traits. But, species lines are often blurred with adaptation and change occurring within a given species. When considering this, don't limit yourself to human evolution. For example, there are mutations and adaptation that occur within species of plants and viruses. Instead of the link and chain analogy, we should instead use the metaphor of a tree of evolution. It is fact that many competing varieties of species did not survive. Their branch of the tree went extinct. It is not imperative that their branch survived to continue the evolutionary process.

On the idea of the "theory of evolution", gravity is also only a "theory", but, is anyone still debating this?! Gravity can be readily observed by anyone on Earth. It's been proven many times by the compilation of facts. We've even experienced differences in gravity between sea level, high mountains and low-earth orbits. Gravity is defined by mathematical equation, yet it still a theory. Next, we have the theory that the "Planets Revolve Around the Sun". Again, this is still a theory. But, nobody is debating it. It is accepted as fact today even though it's original proponents were punished by the Church. In fact, religious believers are often the last to accept a scientific theory as truth, especially when the theory conflicts with their religious beliefs. This is currently true with the "Theory of Evolution". Scientists know that "evolution is indeed a theory, yet it's a theory with a lot of evidence on its side, and with more explanatory power than any competing theory in biology".

Evolution, or natural selection, does not simply apply to humans. It is evident throughout biological history. It can even be individually witnessed in present day with plants, viruses, etc. So, the problems with the theory of evolution are more easily described as a misuse of terminology by religious or uneducated groups instead of a problem with the observed facts.

"Evolution is a fact in the respect that we have hard data – an ever-expanding fossil record – proving that species have changed over time; dinosaurs, early mammals, Trilobites, and other forms no longer exist as living species. The exact mechanism by which these changes occurred (e.g. natural selection and environmental pressures) is the realm of evolutionary theory and is based on interpretation of that fossil record and other available data."

I am not saying that I am an expert on evolution, but it has obviously much more foundation than just saying 'goddidit' and even if there is a god that did it, who says he didn't use evolution to do it.

[RalphyS]

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

Moving away from evolution,
I'd like to talk about the origin of existance. Either

A) The world was created by an all powerful God.

B) The entire universe was once contained in an impossibly dense
sphere the size of the head of a pen ,and suddenly burst open ,
spreading all matter across existance ,and the universe we know today
are the reprocusions of this magnificent burst. (The Big Bang)

or

C)The universe has always existed

Well , considering , the VERY VERY HIGH improbability of all matter
being held in a very dense body (which still does NOT explain how
the tiny body of matter was created in the first place) ,and ,also
considering Newtons laws of movement , ie , an object in motion
tends to stay in motion ,unless acted upon by an outside force,
and AN OBJECT WITHOUT MOTION TENDS TO STAY WITHOUT
MOTION UNLESS ACTED UPON BY AN OUTSIDE FORCE ,
we must conclude that this idea is completely and utterly wrong,
until proof is provided that says otherwise , until man makes
a universe in a test tube , we cannot accept this idea.

Also , according to the vast majority of scientists , everything
in the universe is in a process , which they were all put in
at the creation of the universe. Everything in the universe is changing,
and the universe is expanding , clearly this could not have been the case
an ENFINITY back into the past ... No , the universe had to have been
created at some time , by something or Someone.

First of all, why is it more improbable that all matter was held in a very dense body, after which the big bang happened than that there was some sort of being (who came from where?) that created everything. From all that science can explore about the universe it seems to be expanding, and an expansion had to start at one point. But science does not claim to know why or how or even if the big bang occurred, but it once again seems more likely than saying, well there is this thing in the sky that did it all, without any substantiation for that 'theory'. Still the believers of that 'theory' are absolutely sure that it happened that way, without any proof.

We can agree that the universe as we now know it started at some point, but most scientista take an open-minded view to that starting point and say, we do not yet know, how and/or what started it, and as long as there is no proof for a God who supposedly did it, I take the same view.

[RalphyS]

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

There, now that I've done my best to denounce the notion of
there being no God.

Well you've done your best, but that best wasn't nearly good enough.

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

I have yet to show that our God is indeed a personal loving God. Which is easy , we were created by Him, we were created with the capacity to love , therefore , our Creator must understand love. We were created with the ability to communicate with each other , even without
speaking the same language , we can communicate the most
important things . Therefore , our Creator must understand
communication , after all , He gave us that gift..

Let's say for theory sake, there is a 'creator'. There is no evidence of him being loving. Let's take the bible, the god of the O.T. is a mass murderer, who destroys entire cities, even kills almost all people on earth in a flood, terrorizes someone (Job) and reeks havok on that person's family just because he has a bet going with satan. If I go back to you story, we were created with the capacity to hate, kill and destroy and many more 'evil' things. Who even says that creation was on purpose, maybe it was an experiment gone bad, that has long been abandoned.

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

And now , it has been tried for centuries , but has been proven
impossible - to seperate the physical Jesus from the spiritual Jesus.
Men have tried since before the Reformation to seperate "the two" .
Anyone you've met on the internet or in real life who says they have
proof are lying. As said in the book of Proverbs , "they are lying in wait
to snare your soul".

There are dozens and dozens of prophecies in the old testament
of the messiah , who would become sin , and die so that the sin
that all mankind was cursed with at his fall could be forgiven.
And that , once the sin was gone , God would raise Him from the
dead , all power in heaven and earth would be given to Him ,
and it is He who will judge everyone's soul , after they've had
their whole lifetime to come to Him ,accepting His sacrifice.
The odds that EVEN 10 OF THESE PROPHECIES TO BE FULFILLED
IN ONE HUMAN BEING ARE EXTREMELY , EXTREMELY SLIM.
Jesus fulfilled EVERY SINGLE ONE.

I don't know what you are babbling about 'trying to seperate the physical Jesus from the spiritual Jesus'. There is factually no evidence that a physical Jesus ever existed and even if he existed, there is no evidence for him being a 'son of God' or being 'resurrected'.

Also the O.T. is just a collection of old stories, why would I give any credential to any prophecies described in them (even if they were fulfilled, for which there isn't any proof) or even more credibility than any other 'holy book'

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

He was God's gift of Love , of forgiveness. Jesus is our passionate,
loving God , come to save us . Jesus said Himself that He was the
Messiah ,to deny Him that is to call Him insane. By reading
His words , we can easily see the he was perfectly sane .

We have found much proof in archeology , especially in Egypt
that many of the miracles (especially of Moses' time) were true.
And that the Bible is history , we have found many places that
the Bible talks about , we have evidence that would suggest a
worldwide flood , talked about in Genisis.

Hey Mohammed himself said that he was the prophet of God/Allah. to deny him is to call him insane. By reading his words, we can easily see that he was perfectly sane, NOT, and the same applies to your Jesus. If he existed, Jesus was probably just another Jewish preacher, who never claimed to be the messiah, only in the last written, probably highly embellished gospel of John, claims like that are being made.

As a history book the bible fails miserably, as already stated by anarkist there is no proof for the supposition that the jews were ever slaves of the Egyptians and that there was a big exodus. The city of Nazareth probably didn't even exist at the assumed life-span of Jesus. There is no corroborating evidence for a worldwide flood. The process of Jesus's process and crucifixion is entirely different from all we know about the roman's ways in those matters. The bible is just a collection of fantasies and oral traditions, that have been embellished and modified throughout history by men and not a God.

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

All in all , there is NOT enough proof , in all the world
that could convince me that all existance can be brought down to
Time+Chance. According to your logic , if we placed a can of
Campbells chicken noodle soup on the floor , and watched for long
enough , even billions of years , that life , eventually human life,
would spring from that can of soup. After all, it has all the
nessasary amino acids , protiens , not to mention water , in order
for life to form. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Even if life is created
from scratch in a test tube , that STILL does not prove that life
can be created without intellegent life . I mean , duh , that's just
commom sense ...

You just don't get it, do you? Life wasn't created, it evolved !!
Stupid examples won't help your side, let's open up a can of soup and wait until Jesus breaks the soup in two sides, so an army of ants can march on through, even after a billion times billion years it won't happen.

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

Thus I am left with one conclusion-

That there is a God who exists , He is everything the Bible
says He is , the Bible is the ultimate book of truth ,
there is no room for evolution , big bang theories ,
or chicked noodle soup human civilizations...

You mean just like the church stated that there used to be no room for the theory that the earth moved around the sun in earlier stages of history?
The bible is contradicting itself constantly, not such a strange thing, if you know that it changed a lot over time, and was written by people who described events that supposedly happened decades if not much more earlier.

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

GOD IS TRUE AND HE IS WHO THE BIBLE SAYS HE IS .

If you say no , then I do very much pity you , my brother .
You are mentioned in the Bible ,too ,actually. It says,
"He will give them over to their reprobate minds" And so
you have proven the Bible as truth , even in your disbelief....

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
Lenin

"Religion is the opium for the masses"
Karl Marx

You have proven the founders of communism right.

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

Last , but certainly not least , I know God to be true
from personal experience . Had you lived my life ,and seen the
unexplainable (and ,trust me , I don't say "unexplainable" lightly)
things which I have seen , had you felt the amazing Grace and Peace that
I have felt , then you would have NO DOUBT either. I am very sorry
for your decision to reject Him.

I think that covers just about everything.

With love ,
your still potential brother in Christ,
Ryan

Well I do not which to deconvert you and maybe you've had some sort of 'personal experience' as are mentioned by countless people of all kinds of differing religions. There are also countless people who still see Elvis on a daily basis, untill they provide proof for him still being alive, I won't believe them either. But if the fantasy joy ride of Christ makes you happy, so be it, as long as you let others have the freedom to 'reject' your version of the truth.

With compassion,
your friend in reason,
Ralph