Do you let Religion dictate political views? - Page 3

Lunar Shadow · 09-02-2005, 12:54 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) You just said drugs aren't a problem if used responsibly. Drugs aren't a problem if used responsibly? USING them is irresponsible! They aren't illegal for no reason at all! They are illegal becasue they are HARMFUL, and if you give me a stupid web page that "proves" it otherwise it will do nothing but prove the rest of your sources unreliable, because as you probably know, anyone can make anything look proven on the internet, and it is a freakign fact that illegal drugs such as heroine and cocaine are harmful. Nor granted this has LITTLE to do with the debate but COME ON man.

You see it is not my business if people use them responsbly, I'd say thats what I would prefer. other than that its like I said if people are stupid enough to use thme then they deserve to die (hence the stupid people will weed themselves out). my position on this is perfectly rashtional and falls perfectly within my party lines.

Lunar Shadow · 09-02-2005, 01:00 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) just because i believe my morality is superior to yours does not make your morality entirely invalid, if that's what you're accusing me of doing.

That is a very Vain and subjective statment. I don't sit here and say that my morals are better than yours. I say this for 2 reasons

1. I am not you
2. It would be stupid of me to just dismiss your moral base and background

Like I have said a million times my moral base has nothing to do with my political views.

Lunar Shadow · 09-02-2005, 01:04 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) i guess i should qualify the extent to which i allow my religious beliefs to influence my voting behavior. for me, two of the main moral issues facing this country today are gay marriage & abortion. it is my belief that both are wrong & sinful.

but accoording to your book (the bible) All sin is equal in the eyes of God. that mean your lie that is a bad as being and acting Gay or havign anabortion or killing some one .... you get my point?

it is not your place to condemn sin (as you see it) when you yourself sin on a daily basis

Ana4Stapp · 09-02-2005, 05:35 AM

People who uses drugs-are not only stupid ones to use them and then deserve die - "so let them use, this is their problem"- they are also contributing to others people death- because the use of illegal drugs definitely means the increase of the violence.People that never thought about consuming drugs are killed because them eveyday.
So no one can use drugs in a responsible way.

Ana4Stapp · 09-02-2005, 05:49 AM

double post- sorry

uncertaindrumer · 09-02-2005, 09:38 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist) What county do you live in??? cuz if you live in Canada then this question makes sense otherwise you just felt like filling a little more space in your post.

It doesn't matter what country I live in. I am curious as to what your answer would be.

uncertaindrumer · 09-02-2005, 09:40 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist) but accoording to your book (the bible) All sin is equal in the eyes of God.

As usual you are completely wrong on matters of the Bible. NOT all sin is equal in the eyes of God. Although granted I'm nto sure what this has to do with the thread.

Quote: that mean your lie that is a bad as being and acting Gay or havign anabortion or killing some one .... you get my point?

Oh that's the point. Well sorry. No dice. Lying about something is not nearly as bad as killing someone.

Quote: it is not your place to condemn sin (as you see it) when you yourself sin on a daily basis

Sure it is. It isn't our palce to condemn PEOPLE who sin, but it sure as heck is our place to condemn sin

uncertaindrumer · 09-02-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) yeahhh... he's not really the sharpest knife in the drawer

Thanks. I can handle high level calculus but im not a sharp knife in the drawer, eh?

If someone's screename was "Murderer" I still would not then think "Oh, he wants everyone to murder everyone!".

Lunar Shadow · 09-02-2005, 05:22 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) Why on Earth would I want to do that? The day I see you open up a discussion about how you believe the Bible is fraudulent and God doesn't exist here, is the day I come to be overwhelmed by the sheer quantity if not quality of accusations from your ex-Christian buddies who I really have no desire to associate with. Unlike you, I don't charge into forums bashing other's beliefs OR non-beliefs.

2 things Uncertain

1 You are chosing ignorace of the otherside in not wanting to engage with people who think different than you. You are just hiding in your little corner of the web safe from anything that might call in to question your fragile little world (not that I blame you).

2 I just joined your little board over there at Envoymag

uncertaindrumer · 09-02-2005, 06:56 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist) 2 things Uncertain

1 You are chosing ignorace of the otherside in not wanting to engage with people who think different than you. You are just hiding in your little corner of the web safe from anything that might call in to question your fragile little world (not that I blame you).

2 I just joined your little board over there at Envoymag

Not wanting to engage peopel who think differently than me? What are you, a mindreader? I am first of all, busy, and second of all, I go to plenty of message boards--including THIS one--where people think "differently" than me. In fact the envoy magazine board is the only Catholic board I visit, so shut up on matters in which you are entirely ignorant.

You think I don't dialogue with atheists? I do. In fact I have had lots of discussion and debates with them at other forums. Almsot without fail their argumetns are better than your and often they are a lot less obnoxious as well.

So, I am goign to take your advice and leave this board where people "agree" with me, because I am sick and tired of you.

metalanus · 09-02-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist) I think you should be able to differ between religion and politics. Contrary to popular belief this is not a Christian nation, in fact most of the founding fathers where deists (Washington, Jefferson, and many more) the thing I keep in mind is that this is a country founded with freedom and liberty in mind Remember just because it is legal doesn't mean you have to do (I.E. Abortion, smoking, drinking, premarital sex.) yes these may be moral issues for you but when it comes to politics these should be non issues. These types of things are our freedoms you don't have to use them just don't condemn others for exercising their FREEDOMS! *steps off of soap box*

America is a Christian Nation. Well used to be. Ragrdless if the founding fathers were christian or not they based alot of thought around biblical principles. There is no such thing as seperation of church and state. Thomas Jefferson mentioned it in a letter. However he was writing that Government should not run the churches.

Lunar Shadow · 09-03-2005, 01:17 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by metalanus) America is a Christian Nation. Well used to be. Ragrdless if the founding fathers were christian or not they based alot of thought around biblical principles. There is no such thing as seperation of church and state. Thomas Jefferson mentioned it in a letter. However he was writing that Government should not run the churches.

rrrriiiighhhhtttt
here are a few more quotes from Jefferson

Quote: "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity."

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Quote: "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

Quote: "I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

Quote: "They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."

Quote: -Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

did he just say that? well I guess you are out of luck there metalanus

Quote: "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

Quote: "As you say of yourself, I too am an Epicurian. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greece and Rome have left us."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, Oct. 31, 1819

Quote: "Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

A Christian nation indeed

Where is your proof? Can you even half-assly back up your claim??

Just because the majority believes in a god or in the Christian model of god doesn’t mean that they are right. A majority doesn’t mean anything except that they are more of you than them doesn't mean you are right.

Mulletman · 09-05-2005, 01:52 PM

America was founded on christian values, not as a religious state. I was brought up a strick Catholic (if it feels good, stop) so I let religion guide my political views -- to a certain extent.

I dont believe in abortion, for me a child is a gift not a choice. If the case dealt with rape, incest, or severe endangerment towards the mother then maybe I'd be open to it. But just because the dumb bitch couldnt keep her legs closed is no excuse. Do the crime do the time. If you have an abortion, thats all fun and good for you but I will look down and judge you. But as long as my tax dollars do not go into supporting this, I am happy. I am a hipocrate, I am against abortion but I strongly support the death penalty. Why? Because an unborn child is not capable, mentally and physically, of committing three counts of capital murder.

Drugs, alcohol, and tabacco is all fun and good for you. If you want to destroy your life so be it, just dont destroy mine. You have the right to do whatever you want, until it interferes with someone else. I would support legalizing recreational drugs under the conditions that they would be taxed, stricter penalties for harder drugs, and the penalties for a DUI/DWI would increase in severity. First offenses should result in time at a "federal pounding-in-the-ass prison", no chance of parole.

Premarital sex and birth control. I dont think that everyone should engage in premarital sex but no one should have the right to regulate it. I am a manwhore and love to fuck, if it were not for birth control I'd have 20 kids by now.

I am Catholic and I believe in God and the whole she-bang. If you do not believe in a higher power, so be it, but dont cry like a little girl over someone who does. I will never debate over religion because frankly, arguing abour religion is like arguing about whose imaginary friend is better. Its beyond pointless and no matter how hard one tries nothing will change. I have enough respect to not question your motives or mentality the only thing I ask in return is the same respect. Its fine if you cant comprehend why I believe in God (vice-versa), just keep it to damn yourself. Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one.

JulieCitySlicker · 09-05-2005, 06:20 PM

Mullet, your post was awesome man

Your the bomb!

uncertaindrumer · 09-05-2005, 10:14 PM

Nice post, Mullet, although I can see your Catholic up-bringing has not lasted entirely, lol

View Poll Results: Do you let your religion dictate your political view and vote?
Yes	3	21.43%
No	8	57.14%
Some times	3	21.43%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

09-02-2005, 12:54 AM	#31
Lunar Shadow USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,244 Joined: Jun 2005 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) You just said drugs aren't a problem if used responsibly. Drugs aren't a problem if used responsibly? USING them is irresponsible! They aren't illegal for no reason at all! They are illegal becasue they are HARMFUL, and if you give me a stupid web page that "proves" it otherwise it will do nothing but prove the rest of your sources unreliable, because as you probably know, anyone can make anything look proven on the internet, and it is a freakign fact that illegal drugs such as heroine and cocaine are harmful. Nor granted this has LITTLE to do with the debate but COME ON man. You see it is not my business if people use them responsbly, I'd say thats what I would prefer. other than that its like I said if people are stupid enough to use thme then they deserve to die (hence the stupid people will weed themselves out). my position on this is perfectly rashtional and falls perfectly within my party lines. __________________ Lunar Shadow

09-02-2005, 01:00 AM	#32
Lunar Shadow USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,244 Joined: Jun 2005 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) just because i believe my morality is superior to yours does not make your morality entirely invalid, if that's what you're accusing me of doing. That is a very Vain and subjective statment. I don't sit here and say that my morals are better than yours. I say this for 2 reasons 1. I am not you 2. It would be stupid of me to just dismiss your moral base and background Like I have said a million times my moral base has nothing to do with my political views. __________________ Lunar Shadow

09-02-2005, 01:04 AM	#33
Lunar Shadow USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,244 Joined: Jun 2005 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) i guess i should qualify the extent to which i allow my religious beliefs to influence my voting behavior. for me, two of the main moral issues facing this country today are gay marriage & abortion. it is my belief that both are wrong & sinful. but accoording to your book (the bible) All sin is equal in the eyes of God. that mean your lie that is a bad as being and acting Gay or havign anabortion or killing some one .... you get my point? it is not your place to condemn sin (as you see it) when you yourself sin on a daily basis __________________ Lunar Shadow

09-02-2005, 09:38 AM	#36
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist) What county do you live in??? cuz if you live in Canada then this question makes sense otherwise you just felt like filling a little more space in your post. It doesn't matter what country I live in. I am curious as to what your answer would be. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

09-02-2005, 09:40 AM	#37
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist) but accoording to your book (the bible) All sin is equal in the eyes of God. As usual you are completely wrong on matters of the Bible. NOT all sin is equal in the eyes of God. Although granted I'm nto sure what this has to do with the thread. Quote: that mean your lie that is a bad as being and acting Gay or havign anabortion or killing some one .... you get my point? Oh that's the point. Well sorry. No dice. Lying about something is not nearly as bad as killing someone. Quote: it is not your place to condemn sin (as you see it) when you yourself sin on a daily basis Sure it is. It isn't our palce to condemn PEOPLE who sin, but it sure as heck is our place to condemn sin __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

09-02-2005, 09:41 AM	#38
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) yeahhh... he's not really the sharpest knife in the drawer Thanks. I can handle high level calculus but im not a sharp knife in the drawer, eh? If someone's screename was "Murderer" I still would not then think "Oh, he wants everyone to murder everyone!". __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

09-02-2005, 05:22 PM	#39
Lunar Shadow USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,244 Joined: Jun 2005 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) Why on Earth would I want to do that? The day I see you open up a discussion about how you believe the Bible is fraudulent and God doesn't exist here, is the day I come to be overwhelmed by the sheer quantity if not quality of accusations from your ex-Christian buddies who I really have no desire to associate with. Unlike you, I don't charge into forums bashing other's beliefs OR non-beliefs. 2 things Uncertain 1 You are chosing ignorace of the otherside in not wanting to engage with people who think different than you. You are just hiding in your little corner of the web safe from anything that might call in to question your fragile little world (not that I blame you). 2 I just joined your little board over there at Envoymag __________________ Lunar Shadow

09-02-2005, 06:56 PM	#40
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist) 2 things Uncertain 1 You are chosing ignorace of the otherside in not wanting to engage with people who think different than you. You are just hiding in your little corner of the web safe from anything that might call in to question your fragile little world (not that I blame you). 2 I just joined your little board over there at Envoymag Not wanting to engage peopel who think differently than me? What are you, a mindreader? I am first of all, busy, and second of all, I go to plenty of message boards--including THIS one--where people think "differently" than me. In fact the envoy magazine board is the only Catholic board I visit, so shut up on matters in which you are entirely ignorant. You think I don't dialogue with atheists? I do. In fact I have had lots of discussion and debates with them at other forums. Almsot without fail their argumetns are better than your and often they are a lot less obnoxious as well. So, I am goign to take your advice and leave this board where people "agree" with me, because I am sick and tired of you. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

09-02-2005, 09:27 PM	#41
metalanus USER INFO » Status: Broken Dream Posts: 168 Joined: Aug 2005 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist) I think you should be able to differ between religion and politics. Contrary to popular belief this is not a Christian nation, in fact most of the founding fathers where deists (Washington, Jefferson, and many more) the thing I keep in mind is that this is a country founded with freedom and liberty in mind Remember just because it is legal doesn't mean you have to do (I.E. Abortion, smoking, drinking, premarital sex.) yes these may be moral issues for you but when it comes to politics these should be non issues. These types of things are our freedoms you don't have to use them just don't condemn others for exercising their FREEDOMS! steps off of soap box America is a Christian Nation. Well used to be. Ragrdless if the founding fathers were christian or not they based alot of thought around biblical principles. There is no such thing as seperation of church and state. Thomas Jefferson mentioned it in a letter. However he was writing that Government should not run the churches.

09-03-2005, 01:17 PM	#42
Lunar Shadow USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,244 Joined: Jun 2005 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by metalanus) America is a Christian Nation. Well used to be. Ragrdless if the founding fathers were christian or not they based alot of thought around biblical principles. There is no such thing as seperation of church and state. Thomas Jefferson mentioned it in a letter. However he was writing that Government should not run the churches. rrrriiiighhhhtttt here are a few more quotes from Jefferson Quote: "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782 Quote: "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787 Quote: "I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789 Quote: "They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion." Quote: -Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800 "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814 did he just say that? well I guess you are out of luck there metalanus Quote: "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814 Quote: "As you say of yourself, I too am an Epicurian. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greece and Rome have left us." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, Oct. 31, 1819 Quote: "Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820 A Christian nation indeed Where is your proof? Can you even half-assly back up your claim?? Just because the majority believes in a god or in the Christian model of god doesn’t mean that they are right. A majority doesn’t mean anything except that they are more of you than them doesn't mean you are right. __________________ Lunar Shadow

09-05-2005, 01:52 PM	#43
Mulletman Forum Diplomat USER INFO » Status: Rising Sun Posts: 4,161 Joined: Sep 2002 Currently: Offline	America was founded on christian values, not as a religious state. I was brought up a strick Catholic (if it feels good, stop) so I let religion guide my political views -- to a certain extent. I dont believe in abortion, for me a child is a gift not a choice. If the case dealt with rape, incest, or severe endangerment towards the mother then maybe I'd be open to it. But just because the dumb bitch couldnt keep her legs closed is no excuse. Do the crime do the time. If you have an abortion, thats all fun and good for you but I will look down and judge you. But as long as my tax dollars do not go into supporting this, I am happy. I am a hipocrate, I am against abortion but I strongly support the death penalty. Why? Because an unborn child is not capable, mentally and physically, of committing three counts of capital murder. Drugs, alcohol, and tabacco is all fun and good for you. If you want to destroy your life so be it, just dont destroy mine. You have the right to do whatever you want, until it interferes with someone else. I would support legalizing recreational drugs under the conditions that they would be taxed, stricter penalties for harder drugs, and the penalties for a DUI/DWI would increase in severity. First offenses should result in time at a "federal pounding-in-the-ass prison", no chance of parole. Premarital sex and birth control. I dont think that everyone should engage in premarital sex but no one should have the right to regulate it. I am a manwhore and love to fuck, if it were not for birth control I'd have 20 kids by now. I am Catholic and I believe in God and the whole she-bang. If you do not believe in a higher power, so be it, but dont cry like a little girl over someone who does. I will never debate over religion because frankly, arguing abour religion is like arguing about whose imaginary friend is better. Its beyond pointless and no matter how hard one tries nothing will change. I have enough respect to not question your motives or mentality the only thing I ask in return is the same respect. Its fine if you cant comprehend why I believe in God (vice-versa), just keep it to damn yourself. Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one. __________________ Intellectial Giant (Social Outcast) Quote: (Originally Posted by JenRN) Maybe it's time for some Mullet magic! He can do his Hoffa thing again! Quote: (Originally Posted by Harvey) Women must adore you.

09-05-2005, 06:20 PM	#44
JulieCitySlicker USER INFO » Status: Taken Higher Posts: 15,310 Joined: Oct 2002 Currently: Offline	Mullet, your post was awesome man Your the bomb! __________________ Oh I'm a wandering soul I'm still walking the line that leads me home alone All I know I still got mountains to climb on my own Enough To Let Me Go-Switchfoot

09-05-2005, 10:14 PM	#45
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Nice post, Mullet, although I can see your Catholic up-bringing has not lasted entirely, lol __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

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