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that mas not my quote, obviously, but yes, you are right, bgivens. God new everything that would happen. he planed it. he is sovereign and that means he is omnipotents and in complete and utter control, but i think you alrady knew that. but yeah, God planned and new eveything that was gonna happen.
i don't understand how people can say other wise. the bible is so clear on matters like these. |
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The things people have said on this thread against this theory are good! Give them a listen, with a humble mindset. Oh and AB$, I thought I would let this slide, but dont you ever blatantly say that my theology is messed up again thanks! Cos there are verses to back up pro or con on this matter! You have ignored all of these! If U said that to anyone else here you'd get your butt kicked! You are so young! U are quite intelligent, I will give U that, but U still have alot to learn! Stay humble concerning the word, cos I recon you have NO RIGHT to say that the other side of things is not scripturally valid! Perhaps U brought up some interesting points, but this is one of those mysteries of the word of God that theologians have and will be arguing over till we see Him face to face. And I wont be posting here again unless I'm replying to someone elses thoughts, or if someone gets really hurt and angry concerning your comments! Please be careful that U dont hurt people! |
sorry if i hurt you "feelings" but the same thing has been said to me here.
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Ok, I think I'm starting to see where you are coming from now. There is still just one more thing that you posted that just doesn't make sense.
that He had Jesus in mind if they did There is no "if" with God. He already knew. He knew they were going to sin. Why?? Because he created them. Jesus was not part of the "back up" plan... he was part of the plan. I personally believe that free will(artificial intelligence) is a concept made up by man. Given a creator... it can NOT exsist. |
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YES!! I do agree with you on every point. But this is just something to0 clear my mind up or whatever. Christinas have "free will" in the sense that they can choose what they are going to do now (sin or do what is right) because they have the Holy Spirit residing in them. Right? |
That's a little more tricky. I would like to think yes, they do have a limited amount of choice. But even then, if I give into sin, and another person doesn't... what makes them able to do that? It's a grey area really. I make my decisions based on a choice analasys... i.e., if I do this, what will then happen. If for some reason, I make the wrong choice... what made me make that choice? And more importantly, am I able to fully control the reasons of why I made that choice? So really.... I don't know. Glad to have cleared that one up for you :)
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yeah, i understand where you are coming from. But i mean like i have the choice to, lets say, look at porn on the internet. Or, i have the choice not to, because i know that it is wrong. i am talking about that kind of free will. i think that christinas, when in a situation like that, have the free will to choose to do what is right, and wrong. cause we are christians now. we can choose to do what is right because the holy spirit is helping us. and we choose to do what is wrong because we are still human and one of satan's main jobs is to make the believer fall.
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Or perhaps there exists free will, he trusted they would follow his rules, they didn't. It seems to me that, in saying this, you are essentially calling God malicious and a sometimes-trickster. You know, that he intended for people to screw up. Doesn't say anything about that in the Bible. Just b/c you know something's going to happen doesn't mean you plan it. I might be the CEO of a car manufacturer, I might know that all my union workers are going to strike, but does that mean I plan it? No.
That's a good analogy, but it didn't work that way. when a sovereign God knows something is going to happen, be planned it because he is in control of everything. I am not calling God a trickster. Free will does not exist before one is a christian. Everyone is born a sinner and destined to hell from birth. Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." are you saying that, by double election, you mean that all Christians go to Heaven and everyone else goes to hell? If that's the case, then I agree with you. But I don't agree with the fact that "oh, this Buddhist can never be converted b/c God has damned him from birth" I mean by double election that those whome God didn't choose to go to heaven, all the rest, he chose for hell. Romans 9:17, "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." everyone who is born is destined to die. it is only through christ's sacrifice on the cross that some will be saved. Easy: free will. Like I said in a previous post, laws of science dictate that "for every action, there exists an equal and opposite reaction"; thus, evil and sin inherently oppose good. Therefore, it was necessary for the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil to exist. Because Christ was not part of God's plan at the time, Adam and Eve were given only one chance to screw up. Once they blew it the first time (as any of us would have done), simply killing Satan would not wipe out sin. Sin is inherent. the tree did have to exist because it was Gods plan that man would fall, and that he would send his son to die on the cross. the whole point of the creation of the universe was for the death of christ on the cross. why do you think that the ground shaked, the sky was darkened, and people were miraculously risen from the dead when christ died? the focus point of all creation was for christ to die. jesus said, "the stones will cry out." everything recognized that he was the point of everything. True, but I've heard stories in church of people who have either stopped going to church or did not go in the first place b/c of lack of hospitality and/or no invitation to join. Wouldn't you say it's nearly impossible for someone to know Christ if he/she is not exposed to him in the first place? It is our job as Christians to spread the Word of God to nonbelievers, not sit idly by, assuming they are all damned to burn in hell. That's why, in my opinion, I think it's great that bands like P.O.D. play OzzFest and tour with secular bands. Reaching out to those who have not yet been saved.[/quote] yeah, stuff like that happens. but your original statement was that "christians send people to hell". and that isn't true. have i left out anything, i hope not. |
Way to go American Bad @s,
You believe in the doctrines of grace i take it? I do too. |
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