I am not saying that I do not believe that there is a devil, I believe there is a dark force, satan the devil whatever you call it, but I believe God gave us "free will" and we are only lead to evil when we let ourselves be...

Creedfan...so you believe in God but not in heaven or what?? May I ask??

What if God will be in a bad mood on judgment day, and will decide to send everyone to hell just for the fuck of it? I mean he's god, he can do whatever he wants, and dont tell me he wount do it. Dont you, mortals, say what god (ALLmighty by the way) can and cannot do
hahahaha

I don't think that will happen Lech;) That would just defeat the whole purpose of Jesus dying on the cross for us:angel:

No, God is always in a good mood! He´s Love! :)

So if God is always in a good mood, why did he flood the world after Noah built the Ark??

Hello..he was pissed off....

Please please dont tell god what will and what will not happen. If he wants to throw you in hell, he sure will, regardless of your bible and how you lived yoru life. Come on he is allmighty after all.

coz He thought you wouldn´t enter the ark! :lol: I´m just joking!

Seriously, get your Bible. Open it in Genesis 5 and 6. You´ll see why. The whole world was corrupted, evil and wicked and people, except for Noah and his family, were far away from God.

People´s behavior was self-destructive (sp???).

And how do we know that this is true? Because bible tells us that this is the way it was?
Yeah I heard that they found remains of some ship on some mountain.. but lets face it -- there are several million different species of animals (almost million different species of insects), and no way in hell did Noah collected 2 of each. I mean how did he get 2 penguins?!
And dont tell me they evolved from what he collected. Evolutions is kinda slow.

I don´t think he collected insects...

Lol, Lechium! About penguins... don´t tell me you´re expecting Noah to put a whale in the ark too?! I mean, a pair of each kind of whale...and sharks...and dolphins...and marlins!!! boy, that was a huge boat! :lol: Not to mention the water they need to survive!

2N30°14'?.7 W84°: I think fish can survive flood pretty well, so he needed only ground animals.
And if he did not put penguins in the arc, how did they appear? Dont tell me that some random bird evolved into penguin in few thousand years, cuz that's impossible.

doh... it´s the same thing. I think the penguins stayed in Antartica and giant icebergs... details like this aren´t relevant to our salvation. The Bible put only the necessairy.

Ok, what about animals native to America's? Like Buffalo and stuff? How did they survive teh great flood?

Detaisl are important, cuz details like this show where Bible stops showing historical facts, and starts telling myths.

I beg to differ. You´re trying to put words in my mouth and you know that´s not what I meant.

Anyway, I believe the buffalos were in the ark too

hmmm....my point was that the arc was an example of God being pissed off...which you confirmed he was..that's all...

Lech-you can be logical till you wear yourself out...again..Faith is not logical, we feel our lives are fuller because of our faith and nothing you argue is going to change that...faith is a powerful and incrediable thing and how are we hurting you by having it??

I dont mind you having faith.
A lot of people say that things Bible says are all true, and their proof of that is that Bible does mention few historically correct facts.
However sometimes Bible turns into collection of folklore, like whoel Arc thing. Few dozen Titanics wouldnt hold 2 of each species. And even if you build arc that big, and collect all millions of these species, they will die out, because of severe inbreeding. In other words -- story of Noah and his arc cannot be true, but rather is a legend.
Bottomline: have faith all you want. But be sure that it doesnt hinder yoru ability to see things clearly and soberly.

Fair enough, Lech you have a point. I personally do not feel like my faith hinders my ability to see things clearly. Of course I am not a big follower of the bible..I have heard that the bible was re-written and some of the things that people take as the word of God in actuality is the fabrication of a few men..I do believe there is alot of truth to be found in the bible but like anything else in life to be taken with a grain of salt so to speak.

God wasn´t pissed when He sent the flood.

He did for love of those who who were just and for love of the wicked, coz they were miserable.

Anyway, I saw a Washingnton Post article on the guy who found out where Titanic was and he said there are lots of proofs on Noah´s ark and flood.

So he killed lots of people as an act of love? Killing newborn babies is an act of love? Holy shit, you Christians crack me up.

:rolleyes:

why do you think not everybody is going to Heaven? Do you think that people who do evil will be happy up there???

I wasnt talking about going to heaven... where did you read that?!

You said that flooding and killing hunderds of thousands of people was an act of love. All I said that that was too fucked up act to be an act of love.

Dude, are you THAT slow???

It´s the same thing. After the saints go to Heaven, the Earth will be destroyed by Fire and God will re-do it again to the saved ones.

now THAT sounds like a fairy tale

you´re really boring :goodnight:

Because "the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. . . . The earth became filled with violence" (Genesis 6:5, 11).

God commissioned Noah to warn the wicked people that destruction was coming. He did this for 120 years - that's how long the people had to turn back from their bad ways.

One of God's dominant qualities is justice. It would not have been just of him to allow the wicked to continue on as they were. He gave them ample warning of the judgment to come, and most of them ignored it.

Even though God is love, it does not mean he turns his back on wickedness. He shows anger, always in a controlled manner, but is always ready to show mercy to those who repent.

Yes, you may ask. I believe in God, and I also believe in heaven, but I'm not going there when I die. I don't believe that heaven is a reward for anyone who is "good". I also don't believe that when bad people die, they go to hell to suffer for eternity.

2creedfan47a: you seem to know bible pretty well, maybe you can tell me how Nah has fit several million animals on his arc?

I agree with Bec!

First, it was Noah, not Nah. ;) How are the logisitics of all the animals on the Ark important to me? The facts that we need to know (ie, why the Flood came, etc) were given to us, and that is fine by me. I don't need to know all the minute details to believe. I suppose you now want to start a debate about exactly how Jesus fed thousands with only a few loaves and fishes?

That's not minute detail at all.
If bible says that Noah had 2 of EACH animal, and in actuality he'd have hard time getting (and feeding) more than few hundred, doesnt it mean that there's something wrong in the book?
Come on use some logic.

If you're going to be condescending, then I won't continue this with you. I'm fine if we're having a civilised debate, but you don't have to get like that.

I am trying to have civilized debate.
I ask you "how he fit all animals there?" and you tell me "not important, minute detail"...
answer my question, please

Okay, I DON'T KNOW HOW ALL THE ANIMALS GOT IN THE ARK. But it is not important to ME. What is important to me is the significance of the Flood. If you want to nitpick over all the details that are left out of the Bible, then that's up to you.

That's not nitpicking.
That's looking at something peopel hold for a fact and going "hey that is just outrageous, and makes no sence".
It can mean to you anything.
Trash can behing K-Mart can be an alien spaceship in someone's mind, but that doesnt make it so.

Well, you asked that question, I gave you my answer. Sorry if it is not to your liking.

So your answer actually is "there are things in the bible that hardly make any sence, but I still choose to follow it, just because it means so much to me".
Well alright.

My answer is "God gave us in the Bible everything we need to know. Considering God created the heavens and the earth, I hardly think it is past his abilities to get some animals in a box. I believe that the Bible is the truth, and I don't need to know every single thing that has happened since the beginning of time to believe that."

you are perfect example of person with blind faith.
well at least it seems to work for you.

p.s. if someone ever asks you if you're follower or a leader, just say "follower", ok?

p.p.s. i'm neither btw

p.p.p.s. hope i havet afended you or something. if i did -- oh well sorry

On the contrary, I have my eyes wide open. ;) It's working great for me, thanks. :D

Yes, I am a follower. A follower of Jesus. ;) Seems to me like you are a follower of sorts too.

Humm and what do I follow?