But God created sin and Satan... if he truly wanted everyone in, he would not have created all that stuff. It's like test for us to pass, some of us were created equiped to pass it.. and some of us weren't.

what's your proof?

Romans 9:17 - 23, "For the Scripture says to pharaoh, "For this very purpose, I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My Name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth. So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, 'why does He still find fault, for who resists His will?' But on the contrary, who are you, oh man, to answer back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, 'why did you make me like this?' will it? Or does not the potter have the right over the clay to make from the same lump, one velles for honorable use, and another for common use? What is God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known endured with much patience veeeles of wrath prepared for destruction? And he did so in order that He might make known the righes of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory."

Ephesians 1:4, "Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him."

The ones that God "chose" in this instance, are those how will be saved. What happenes to those who He did not choose? Are they left to wander around on the earth with no hope? Yes and no. Common sense tells us that if God chooses some people to go to heaven, then those that He did not choose to go to heaven, He chose them to go to hell.

He Also Made the Day Of evil For Himself~Whatch proof that satan has no power but Evil Is evil Demons Walks amoung Us everyday As well As Angels But Im going in to a diffrent Topic Here It seems im deeper the most Read Revlation Ch 22~~Verse 11 >!15 My friend Is this that Final Election Your Talking About!!!!! COME ON COME ON!!!!!! its really not an election Its Called The HARVEST And The tares Shall Be Cut Down And so fourth and so fourth~~I better hush Now!!!!! PEACE AABA do you have a name son?

So those of you who support these views are essentially against the existence of "free will" with regard to man's fate. Sure God created all in the heavens and the earth, but that does not mean he intends for certain people to go to hell. After all, if he did have full command of this world, then he wouldn't have needed Christ to die to defeat sin and save the people of the earth, past, present, and future. He could've said "satan, die" and that would've been that. And God didn't create evil. After all, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Sin and the devil is not God's means of weeding out the weak ones on the face of this earth. He tries to plant the seed of his Holy Spirit in all, in various ways, and some people hearts are hardened by Satan. It says God hardens whomever he wants; that's not to say he damns whomever he wants. You are damned if, at death, you have not accepted Christ into your heart and life. But up until then, God's Spirit works in you to "turn from the dark side", so to speak.

Are you saying that god doesn't have absolute control? cause he does. he didn't need to do anything. he does them for the glorification of himself.

your right aab$ :)

Man has always had their own choices though. The fact that God stood by and allowed a&e to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil proves that. Cos if He had the right to determine the fate of everybody he wouldnt have let that happen, cos it screwed everything up. They obviously had a choice and God doesnt change and couldnt stop that. Just like the trees back then, we still have the same choice now, Jesus or the world. Like there was back then, there is God on the earth, and satan tempting people. We still have to make a decision.

Bearfan had some good stuff to say.

God so loved the WORLD! Not, God so loved to move us around like pawns...

If a non-Christian is driving U nuts, do U just shrug them off as being damned and get on with your life? I think it's not Jesus, but Christians that send some people straight to hell!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: COULD NOT SAID IT BETTER MY SELF!!!!!!! ROCK ON!!!!!!

dang, you have some screwed up theology.

God let adam and eve eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for a reason. he could have stopped them and done something else, but He didn't. God let them eat because the end would glorify Him. and that end is when the world ends, satan is destroyed and sentanced to the lake of fire forever, and all the christinas go to heaven. god is sovereign. he knew that tadam and eve were going to eat of the tree. and if he knew it was gonna happen, he planned it.

man has a choice. you are right. but the only option in that choice is to sin. Romans says, no one chooses to do good. only christians can choose to do good because they are christinas have have the holy spirit indwelling them and therefore, they can make the right decisions.

God is sovereign, he is not hindered by anything. he can do anything, cause anything and stop anything. i don't understand how you can say that god couldn't stop adam and eve from eating from the tree.

christians dob't send people to hell. God. does. Luke 12:5, "fear the one who has authority to cast into hell..." that is God. Christians do not send people to hell. it is their job to witness to the people that are going to hell. jesus said, "i did not come to call the righteous, but the sinners."

no, i don't shug of a nonbeliever cause he is aggrivating me. i talk to him about the truth, and pray for him.

does this not make any sense to you?

I gotta agree with aba$... Adam and Eve eating from the tree was planned. Without that happening, why is there a need for Jesus?? Them eating from that tree is what separates us from animals. We now know right and wrong and are capable of morals ect. It was planned.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :

God said that they must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Read it in Genesis 2:16-17.

There was a need for Jesus because of the choice that Adam and Eve made. God never intended man to wear clothes for example, but because of the introduction to the "knowledge of good and evil" thing, God worked with what He had cos yes, He will still be glorified through everything in the end.

Before that they had no issue being naked. BUT because of their choice to eat the fruit, the rest is history.

Adam and Eve were superior to the animals not because they ate from the tree, but cos of Genesis 1:28;..fill the earth and subdue it, Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground. This account is before the tree!

I just see stuff here on this board, and in the discussions that we had on this in my theology classes, that makes me think that your theory has megga holes! Guess I will never be satisfied. Nice try though! ;)

Now heres the bottom line god always knows the future before it becomes the past but he started with adam and eve!!!!HE Did Say dont Eat It`but they did!!!IF WE KNEW EVERYTHING WE WOULD BE GOD} SEEK And shall find!!!!In him is many hidden Secrets} people!!!

my theology?

adam and eve were superior to the animals. all humans are. but there are those left wingist who think that the human race is a plague and that the animals are what the world is all about. they think that the earth was infected with a disease - mankind.

but we are not talking about that. adam and eve had a choice - like i said. and that choice was already known by god. he planned it. he didn't create sin, that was satan. and satan was not evil to begin with. he was the highest and most holy of angels. i don't know where you are coming from, i think your post is :offtopic: help me understand where you are coming from

So you are saying an omnicient and omnipotent God didn't know that Adam and Eve would eat from a tree and then had to improvise via Jesus?? Hmmmmm..... there's your major plot hole.