some countries not giving enough to tsunami fund?

[aussiecreeder]

yes a bit of a poltical thread but this topic is preddy important. as much i like discussing what soft drink should be called lol sometimes there are more important things. the following nations or groups have given the following thus far;

Arab Govt: $30m
Arab public: $80m
Qatar: $25m
UAE: $20m
Kuwait: $10m
Israel: 100,000 for every affected country

This is just not good enough particulary as many of the countries are all of these country's (except israel) muslim brothers and sisters in indonesia particulary. its particulary bad when one considers the german government alone has donated close to 700 million dollars and australia via its government (not including donations from private citizens) has given 1 billion dollars. sure there political reasons for that (give money=hopefully stop terrorism=less wars to fight=less money to spend=money well spent.....yes i am a cynical soul lol).

[TeriB19]

Well since we're on this topic, I should tell you that while I do agree every country should do what it can to help, I also think that the problems of ones' own country should not be swept to the side for the benefit of aiding other countries. I sent a letter to the editor of our newspaper about this very topic. This is what it said:

I'd like to start by saying I'm not a cold-hearted person. I feel for and pray for all the victims of the Dec. 26 tsunami. I am truly sorry for the losses, the devastation, the hell those people went through and still continue to go through. But I must say that I cannot agree with our country sending $350 million in aid when our senior citizens do not have a proper prescription plan and must scrimp and save to make ends meet. My 66 year old mother cannot afford to retire from her job in the casino industry because Medicare alone does not fully cover the cost of her monthly prescriptions, any doctor visits and testing. She also cannot afford the additional premiums required to ensure that she continues to have 100% medical and hospitalization. I understand that this country wants to set the tone for other countries, but what about the big corporations? What about those countries who refused to help us in the war in Iraq? Now is the time for them to step up to the plate and do their part. I just don't think that the entire struggle for humanitarian aid to that region should fall entirely on the United States when we've got our own problems that continue to remain unaddressed because there's always another country whose needs are greater than our own. My husband is currently in Kuwait serving in the U.S. Navy Reserves and has been away from his family for almost 5 months. When will the attentions of our government be focused on the problems we have here in our own country? When will it be our turn?
Theresa Biebel

[Anna1011]

My Family Have Bin Giving As Much As We Can To Oxfam My Nieces And Nephew Who Are 7,6, And 4 Gave Half Their Money They Got For Christmas And I Gave Half Of Last Months Wages.

[Higher_Desire]

Just remember... countries give what they can. It depends how much people are willing to give. 25 million may not sound like a lot to you, but it sure as hell does to me. Besides, who's to say what the proper amount is?


H-D :pimp:

[Xterminator27]

yes a bit of a poltical thread but this topic is preddy important. as much i like discussing what soft drink should be called lol sometimes there are more important things. the following nations or groups have given the following thus far;

Arab Govt: $30m
Arab public: $80m
Qatar: $25m
UAE: $20m
Kuwait: $10m
Israel: 100,000 for every affected country

This is just not good enough particulary as many of the countries are all of these country's (except israel) muslim brothers and sisters in indonesia particulary. its particulary bad when one considers the german government alone has donated close to 700 million dollars and australia via its government (not including donations from private citizens) has given 1 billion dollars. sure there political reasons for that (give money=hopefully stop terrorism=less wars to fight=less money to spend=money well spent.....yes i am a cynical soul lol).

This is made up but gives you an idea of what im talking about

K so Qatar makes like 5 bil a year and gives 25 mil
- they give 0.005 of their money to that place

America makes 150 trillion a year and gives 350 million
- They give 0.00002% of their money to that place


See what I mean?

[aussiecreeder]

This is made up but gives you an idea of what im talking about

K so Qatar makes like 5 bil a year and gives 25 mil
- they give 0.005 of their money to that place

America makes 150 trillion a year and gives 350 million
- They give 0.00002% of their money to that place


See what I mean?

yeah but compare that to Australia which has given more than any other nation on earth to this fund or Germany or the EU. Teri you have a point but surely the wealthiest countries on earth have a moral obligation to help these countries. i think its a tragedy your mother cannot afford to retire and that is an indicement on the u.s. however not being able to afford to retire and not having anything to eat, or clean water or a roof over one's head is a completely different story.

X Saudi Arabia is a very big economy and the world's largest supplier of oil so I think they can afford to give more. This is probably the biggest natural disaster we will see in our lifetimes. The death toll is up around 200,000 which makes other recent events tiny in comparison.

[Xterminator27]

if australia makes 1/30th of americas income and can donate over 2x more money, then we know somethings not right.

And i agree with aussie, having no food and starving to death is a different story then not having a good retirement fund

[fluttergirl]

i think that the second that this turns into a who-gave-how-much thing, its ridiculous. people are helping. people are giving more than just money- sorely needed items, hands, hearts and prayers are being sent as well, its impossible to add everything up fairly, not to mention private donations and such. this isnt something that money is going to fix anyways.

[aussiecreeder]

i think that the second that this turns into a who-gave-how-much thing, its ridiculous. people are helping. people are giving more than just money- sorely needed items, hands, hearts and prayers are being sent as well, its impossible to add everything up fairly, not to mention private donations and such. this isnt something that money is going to fix anyways.

your right its not a competition and money won't fix all problems. money is what is needed though for aid agencies to help these people with their physical problems. i just find it strange that indonesia's muslim brothers are not helping them more. israel's economy is fairly big and they can probably afford to give more.

[fluttergirl]

well, i think competition is a good motivater in fund raising, just not finger pointing....

[aussiecreeder]

Away from who has given what there is another interesting issue here and that is who is getting the money. I don't know about fellow "coalition of the willing" members but Australia is refusing to give money to the U.N because the government believes too much wastage occurs. This is but another example of the U.N becoming irrevelant.

[DekWannaBFlea]

Well since we're on this topic, I should tell you that while I do agree every country should do what it can to help, I also think that the problems of ones' own country should not be swept to the side for the benefit of aiding other countries. I sent a letter to the editor of our newspaper about this very topic. This is what it said:

I'd like to start by saying I'm not a cold-hearted person. I feel for and pray for all the victims of the Dec. 26 tsunami. I am truly sorry for the losses, the devastation, the hell those people went through and still continue to go through. But I must say that I cannot agree with our country sending $350 million in aid when our senior citizens do not have a proper prescription plan and must scrimp and save to make ends meet. My 66 year old mother cannot afford to retire from her job in the casino industry because Medicare alone does not fully cover the cost of her monthly prescriptions, any doctor visits and testing. She also cannot afford the additional premiums required to ensure that she continues to have 100% medical and hospitalization. I understand that this country wants to set the tone for other countries, but what about the big corporations? What about those countries who refused to help us in the war in Iraq? Now is the time for them to step up to the plate and do their part. I just don't think that the entire struggle for humanitarian aid to that region should fall entirely on the United States when we've got our own problems that continue to remain unaddressed because there's always another country whose needs are greater than our own. My husband is currently in Kuwait serving in the U.S. Navy Reserves and has been away from his family for almost 5 months. When will the attentions of our government be focused on the problems we have here in our own country? When will it be our turn?
Theresa Biebel

Sorry but i disagree on some levels, when a 100,00 people in an instant, and almost entire countries are devestated, i think that aid is need by all that can afford it.
The U.S. has definately stepped up, but more is needed. Also, who says that we can't fix those problems in our country and this one at the same time? What exactly is Congress for? Who says we can't start private donations and help this people; peoples whose entires lives are destroyed, no homes, no food, no water, family members gone. We are privilaged in the U.S. we have those BASIC needs (for the most part). Those people have NOTHING.

When over 100,000 peoples lives are taken, you don't ask others "why don't you give more money?" , "If have given enough money, who don't you step up?". You just do do it with out question.

Think of the parable of the good samaritan in the bible. Think how that applies.

I don't mean to sound condecesending or like i know it all, but in this instances i think we should just help and help somemore.

[TeriB19]

Also, who says that we can't fix those problems in our country and this one at the same time? What exactly is Congress for? Who says we can't start private donations and help this people; peoples whose entires lives are destroyed, no homes, no food, no water, family members gone. We are privilaged in the U.S. we have those BASIC needs (for the most part). Those people have NOTHING.

I don't mean to sound condecesending or like i know it all, but in this instances i think we should just help and help somemore.

I don't feel at all as if you're being condescending, and I do understand the need to give. My point is, while we do have Congress and we do have the power to change the problems we've got in this country, no one is doing it. Congress just got back into session after a month off. A MONTH OFF. If I stopped working for a month I'd be in the welfare line looking for public assistance to get my kids milk and bread. If my mother took a month off work she would not have the medicine she needs to keep her healthy.

As I stated in my letter, I'm not an uncaring person, and I do feel that we all need to give and give more, but I also think that this government needs to not forget about the needs of its own people.

[Mulletman]

Countries should only give what they can afford to give without hurt themselves. Sending obsurd amounts of money does not solve much. People complain that the U.S. only offered a meager 35 million to start and refuse to count the monetary value that military ads. Look sending money does not solve anything. You can sell a kidney to donate money, but its not going to value much if there is nothing to make the money work. X or King - UAE, Saudia Arabia, and Kuwait are the richest countries in the world. I understand that the U.S. makes more money, but when you factor in the amount of money it consumes, whats left over isnt as grand.

[DekWannaBFlea]

I don't feel at all as if you're being condescending, and I do understand the need to give. My point is, while we do have Congress and we do have the power to change the problems we've got in this country, no one is doing it. Congress just got back into session after a month off. A MONTH OFF. If I stopped working for a month I'd be in the welfare line looking for public assistance to get my kids milk and bread. If my mother took a month off work she would not have the medicine she needs to keep her healthy.

As I stated in my letter, I'm not an uncaring person, and I do feel that we all need to give and give more, but I also think that this government needs to not forget about the needs of its own people.


Ok, i understand better, but it is politics, and when you have two sides to politics not all the issues are worked out. And sometimes help isn't possible. But yeah, the U.S. ain't perfect.

[DekWannaBFlea]

Countries should only give what they can afford to give without hurt themselves. Sending obsurd amounts of money does not solve much. People complain that the U.S. only offered a meager 35 million to start and refuse to count the monetary value that military ads. Look sending money does not solve anything. You can sell a kidney to donate money, but its not going to value much if there is nothing to make the money work. X or King - UAE, Saudia Arabia, and Kuwait are the richest countries in the world. I understand that the U.S. makes more money, but when you factor in the amount of money it consumes, whats left over isnt as grand.


Sending money helps because the money is used to buy supplies for various projects, so i don't think there could be too much money, and as i said before we shouldn't point fingers, we should just give.

Word

[HigherGirl]

Teri,
I totally agree with your letter 100%..You hit the nail right on the head!! :clap:

[RMadd]

This is made up but gives you an idea of what im talking about

K so Qatar makes like 5 bil a year and gives 25 mil
- they give 0.005 of their money to that place

America makes 150 trillion a year and gives 350 million
- They give 0.00002% of their money to that place
ok... if i'm not mistaken, we're talking about the government itself giving money that was (presumably) "raised" through taxation, and not about the GDP as a whole. thus, we'll use the number $1.782 trillion, as culled from the CIA World Factbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html#Econ) (you also might notice that the GDP for the US is not even 1/10 of what X claims it to be: it is actually just under $11 trillion).
Thus, for the US 100(350,000,000/11,000,000,000,000)=0.00318%
Qatar's (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/qa.html#Econ) actual gov't revenues, in '04, were estimated at $8.202 billion.
Thus, 100(25,000,000/8,202,000,000)=0.304%
Thus, though a disparity still exists, it is not quite so grotesque as your statistics would indicate. Get a job with CBS. I hear they've got 4 positions that just opened up in the past couple of days.
I must also point out that your calculations were incorrect, as you did not adjust the numbers (by multiplying by 100) for percentage form. F.

[Xterminator27]

Thus, though a disparity still exists, it is not quite so grotesque as your statistics would indicate..

of course, thats why i said in the first place that i made the numbers up as im giving you as an example of what I was talking about.
and EXAMPLE, saying i made it 100% off the top of my head and didnt bother to caculate a dime.


- Id also like to point out that mulletman called me king,

STEP ONE OF WORLD DOMINATION COMPLETE

[RMadd]

if australia makes 1/30th of americas income and can donate over 2x more money, then we know somethings not right.additionally, Australia's (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/as.html#Econ) per capita GDP is $29,000, as compared to $37,800 in the US (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html#Econ). furthermore, with a GDP of $574.1 billion, Australia's overall GDP is roughly 1/20th (5%) of that of the US (as was mentioned in my pvs post, just a hair under $11 trillion).
I know you've got this incessant need and desire to hate the United States whenever possible (and even sometimes when it's not), and I respect your right to do so, so long as you get your facts straight. (is it just me who's got this feeling I need to make another Dan Rather/CBS wisecrack?)

[RMadd]

of course, thats why i said in the first place that i made the numbers up as im giving you as an example of what I was talking about.
and EXAMPLE, saying i made it 100% off the top of my head and didnt bother to caculate a dime.well i thank thee for showing all thy loyal subjects how truly honest and thorough though art.

[Xterminator27]

I know you've got this incessant need and desire to hate the United States whenever possible (and even sometimes when it's not), and I respect your right to do so, so long as you get your facts straight. (is it just me who's got this feeling I need to make another Dan Rather/CBS wisecrack?)

Might have something to do with the fact that america is the key to the appocolipse and the permenant end of the human race

[aussiecreeder]

additionally, Australia's (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/as.html#Econ) per capita GDP is $29,000, as compared to $37,800 in the US (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html#Econ). furthermore, with a GDP of $574.1 billion, Australia's overall GDP is roughly 1/20th (5%) of that of the US (as was mentioned in my pvs post, just a hair under $11 trillion).
I know you've got this incessant need and desire to hate the United States whenever possible (and even sometimes when it's not), and I respect your right to do so, so long as you get your facts straight. (is it just me who's got this feeling I need to make another Dan Rather/CBS wisecrack?)

Well you haven't destroyed his case because the U.S GDP is 20 times and yet they've given less. again this is not a competition and the u.s is obviously funding two wars at the moment but for the sake of a fair discussion. i think the u.s has given as much as can be expected. its some of the countries that i listed in the first post that i think can give more.

[fluttergirl]

does a country exist that america isnt soley monetarily responsible for?

[Mulletman]

Well you haven't destroyed his case because the U.S GDP is 20 times and yet they've given less. again this is not a competition and the u.s is obviously funding two wars at the moment but for the sake of a fair discussion. i think the u.s has given as much as can be expected. its some of the countries that i listed in the first post that i think can give more.
We have a medical hospital ship in the area and thats only part of a fleet thats there. Those ships cost the American tax payer 350 million in a matter of hours. But those ships, and thier crew can do things that the 350 million cannot.

Flutter - No, there is not. You'd shit yourself if you knew how much money the US gave to other coutries on a daily basis. But it has too, if payment where to cease on any of theses countries thier economy would collapse in a matter of hours and cause a domino effect in the worlds economy.

[RMadd]

Well you haven't destroyed his case because the U.S GDP is 20 times and yet they've given less. again this is not a competition and the u.s is obviously funding two wars at the moment but for the sake of a fair discussion. i think the u.s has given as much as can be expected. its some of the countries that i listed in the first post that i think can give more.i hear ya.
in my intergovernmental relations class today we were discussing almost these very points. and the point about the US being involved in a couple of wars was brought up. we are providing assistance in other methods. we have no obligation to be helping (unless you consider an ethical/moral pov); and yet we've provided $350 million, not to mention assistance through air support and military personnel coming ashore to assist with distribution. so that's a little more than $350 in net worth. and just a thought/question: how much aid did Floridians receive from other nations late this summer and early fall?

[aussiecreeder]

i hear ya.
in my intergovernmental relations class today we were discussing almost these very points. and the point about the US being involved in a couple of wars was brought up. we are providing assistance in other methods. we have no obligation to be helping (unless you consider an ethical/moral pov); and yet we've provided $350 million, not to mention assistance through air support and military personnel coming ashore to assist with distribution. so that's a little more than $350 in net worth. and just a thought/question: how much aid did Floridians receive from other nations late this summer and early fall?

fair point in your closing question but the u.s can help itself. countries like sri lanka and indonesia just don't have the means to help themselves after such an event. about what fluttergirl said flutter are you saying that if the u.s ceased to exist all countries would fall apart including all the first world countries? i think it would be devestating but the world would recover in time. the u.s has an empire of sorts but like all empires before it, it will go and will be replaced. besides there are many countries in this world where their citizens have a better standard of living than the average american.

[RMadd]

fair point in your closing question but the u.s can help itself.oh, really? then why are we expected to help others so much? with a war going on & gov't spending being over-budget, using millions of dollars to help with relief at home, then be expected to give over 1/3 of a billion of dollars, and get our asses reamed for 'not giving enough'? give me a break. i know it's a nice thing to do. but hey, how much is the pvt sector here giving? i heard it was, when combined w/ gov't giving, already upwards of a billion. ahhh, yes, the evil empire is quite stingy.

[aussiecreeder]

oh, really? then why are we expected to help others so much? with a war going on & gov't spending being over-budget, using millions of dollars to help with relief at home, then be expected to give over 1/3 of a billion of dollars, and get our asses reamed for 'not giving enough'? give me a break. i know it's a nice thing to do. but hey, how much is the pvt sector here giving? i heard it was, when combined w/ gov't giving, already upwards of a billion. ahhh, yes, the evil empire is quite stingy.

what occured in florida was terrible but are you honestly comparing that to the horror of the tsunamis that ravaged asia and northern africa? i never said the u.s wasen't giving enough, but i did say that the oil rich countries should give more as should israel. what you described at the start shows was has happened to the republican party IMO. its not conserative econmically under Bush and the neo conseratives.

[RMadd]

its not conserative econmically under Bush and the neo conseratives.you're telling me... it's a disgrace to real conservatism
sorry aussie... i'm not saying you called the US stingy; most of my remarks are aimed at those (such as X, whom I criticized in my first post in here) who do.

[aussiecreeder]

you're telling me... it's a disgrace to real conservatism
sorry aussie... i'm not saying you called the US stingy; most of my remarks are aimed at those (such as X, whom I criticized in my first post in here) who do.

next election you've got to get someone like colin powell running IMO. someone fairly moderate and conserative who isn't a neo-con.

[RMadd]

man, someone like Ronald Reagan. we need us more fellas like him up in herre.

[aussiecreeder]

lol "i don't think so tim".

[fluttergirl]

id post the statistic, but i honestly dont remember where i heard it, it was in the presidential debates-
america is one member of tens in the UN, yet provide roughly 1/3 or 1/4 the money.....

i hate it when people say America is self absorbed and crap, its untrue and ignorant...

[aussiecreeder]

the UN looks like going the way of the league of nations. the U.S gives that much money but that money buys influence does it not? call me cynical.....

[fluttergirl]

like the kind of influence that would get us help in iraq?
oh
wait
that never happened....

[aussiecreeder]

well the iraq discussion is a whole other thread.....i'll keep quiet on my opinion on that invasion.

[fluttergirl]

no, its not. if youre going to imply that america gains influence with the money that it provides to the UN, then do so. better yet, just say it. america is not as cut-throat as everyone makes us out to be, and im sick of the attitude that i get online from everyone just because of where i live.

[Xterminator27]

america is not as cut-throat as everyone makes us out to be.

lol keep dreaming

[aussiecreeder]

flutter instead of being so sensitive and defensive why not think about why so much of the world is hostile to what the u.s does? look australia is one of your closest allies and there are certainly many in this country who think the iraq invasion was unjustified. in fact when the war started the majority here were against it (i'm sure the same applied in spain, poland etc) yet our government went in for a war that should have never have happened. there i said it......

[fluttergirl]

lol keep dreaming
do you live here? no.
i hate to break it to you, but all those SNL skits and such? hyperboles, exagerations. yes, were capitalist. doesnt mean we're communist.
america DID give 350 million dollars....real cut throat there....

and aussie, i have no qualms with you not liking the war, thats wasnt what had upset me....though i like the bluntness, lol...

[aussiecreeder]

well if you're capitalist obviously not you're not commonist lol. capitalism is a great system but i think the u.s is too free-market oriented perhaps. i like the australian system of capitalism but there are some controls and we have a great standard of living as a result. healthcare is certainly in better shape then what i hear about the u.s system although a smaller population would help i guess. you want blunt? how bout this? if john howard was any closer to george bush he'ld be having his kids lol......

[Xterminator27]

capitalism is a great system ..

depends on which side of capitalism your on

yes your having a dandy time with your cheap and sexy running shoes, but it took the hours of nine broke poor children and people who were working in unimaginable conditions, for 18 hours straight, and getting paid 45c a hour.

Capitalism is a double edges sword, for every person who gains from it (all of us here) two people had to suffer for their whole lives.
Which is also why capitalism is dangerous because in todays society, people dont give a fuck if starving people have to work 18 hour shifts with no breaks for a dollar, as long as it makes your own puchas cost less.

[aussiecreeder]

depends on which side of capitalism your on

yes your having a dandy time with your cheap and sexy running shoes, but it took the hours of nine broke poor children and people who were working in unimaginable conditions, for 18 hours straight, and getting paid 45c a hour.

Capitalism is a double edges sword, for every person who gains from it (all of us here) two people had to suffer for their whole lives.
Which is also why capitalism is dangerous because in todays society, people dont give a fuck if starving people have to work 18 hour shifts with no breaks for a dollar, as long as it makes your own puchas cost less.

i disagree with you although you have a fair point about sweatshops. a more capitalist structure in china and india for example has seen econmic conditions improve for the average person although it could obviously be better. capitalism isn't perfect but what is the alternative? remember the soviet union?

[RMadd]

the soviet union, technically, wasn't communist. what i mean is, they weren't particularly marxist communist. they're known for stalin's interpretation & authoritarianism. i will agree w/ both y'all (X & Aussie) that capitalism is good, but it has its pitfalls. but to paraphrase what winston churchill said about democracy: it's the best thing that's been tried to date (well, for systems w/ gov'ts, anyway).

[aussiecreeder]

the soviet union, technically, wasn't communist. what i mean is, they weren't particularly marxist communist. they're known for stalin's interpretation & authoritarianism. i will agree w/ both y'all (X & Aussie) that capitalism is good, but it has its pitfalls. but to paraphrase what winston churchill said about democracy: it's the best thing that's been tried to date (well, for systems w/ gov'ts, anyway).

for sure i don't think a theocracy is a good idea for the simple fact that you alienate such a large percentage of the population. a democratic society with a relatively free market is the best system we have even though its far from perfect.

[fluttergirl]

i wasnt comparing the two, poltically, merely the connotation of communism/capitalism as both being these evil governments...

[The Lithium]

Haha :D

[Mulletman]

flutter instead of being so sensitive and defensive why not think about why so much of the world is hostile to what the u.s does? look australia is one of your closest allies and there are certainly many in this country who think the iraq invasion was unjustified. in fact when the war started the majority here were against it (i'm sure the same applied in spain, poland etc) yet our government went in for a war that should have never have happened. there i said it......
Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get the fuck over it....

[aussiecreeder]

Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get the fuck over it....

Oh really? Umm I should just get over the fact that Australian citizens were sent into a battle that should have never happened. Perhaps I should just cry a river over the fact that Mr.Habib an Australian citizen was just released after spending 3 years in Guantanmo Bay and declared innocent. He spent 3 years in prison without charge and after 3 years is released declared innocent of all wrongdoing. But you're right I should just build a bridge.......

[Mulletman]

Habib is far from innocent, hes an enemy combatant that is not being released, but sent into Australian custody.

[aussiecreeder]

Habib is far from innocent, hes an enemy combatant that is not being released, but sent into Australian custody.

far from innocent? so what is he guilty of? why hasen't he being charged of a crime if he is guilty? isn't someone at least entitled to a fair trial before being placed in jail for 3 YEARS! david hicks has also spent about the same amount of time there and these two men are both citizens of basically your closest friend.

[TeriB19]

My letter to the editor was published today! And I did feel a little better when I saw that they also published another letter under mine pretty much saying the same thing my letter said.

[Bridge of Clay]

I agree with Teri. Do your own homework first before helping others.

(not saying that towards US, I'm saying to countries in general)

[aussiecreeder]

I'm not disagreeing with her, I'm am merely saying the two objectives are not mutually exclusive. The U.S and Australia for that matter are lands of plenty in comparison to the Aceh provience of Indonesia for example.