From a musician's point-of-view: Where Stapp Went Wrong

[revisfoot]

The fact of the matter is, is that Stapp is simply not delivering. When you don't deliver to your fans, they become antsy, restless, and soon get tired of waiting. Yes, we've heard "rumours" of a solo record, which was originally set for release in NOVEMBER, then pushed back to, what we HOPE, is now March 2005. But, if he's truly in the studio right now, and if he wants to keep his fans interested, give them some news! Some video clips! Some music snippets! Something! The last thing we heard was "Relearn Love," and then a remixed version. And, yes, I know, we've all seen him on television, doing "Higher" with the guys from Goneblind. But, where's the new stuff? Like I said, if you don't deliver, then there's no ending to hint at.

[aussiecreeder]

In his defense there are artists to take 5 or 6 years to produce a record and they are considered masterpieces (Tool or Nine Inch Nails anyone). On the other hand Stapp isn't going to produce anything like that, lets be honest. I think he needs to plead with Jeff Martin (The Tea Party) to come back and write with him.

[Ann Allusion]

:laugh: everyone has an opinion...luv it.... ;)

you've made a few valid points in general, revisfoot...but you have to remember there is nothing "conventional" in how ALL of the former members of Creed have approached their separate endeavours. Stapp will come through, and that is the bottom line...at least how i see it...and i think a lot of people will be surprised with what they get... :D

[EvenStream]

I think it's wrong that he's doing Creed songs, we call them CREED songs for a reason!

[titan9]

As I've said before, I think once his solo album is out, he'll only perform those songs and ignore the Creed songs. At the moment, the Creed Greatest Hits CD is out. 3/4 of Creed won't perform those songs and won't promote the CD. Stapp is the only one even willing to promote the CD. In order to keep his name out there(so people still know him when he releases the solo album) he's occasionally performing Creed songs. As I have said before, I am against Scott performing the Creed songs, but I think I understand why he is doing it:to promote the Creed GH album and to keep his name out there.

And I agree, we need to hear more about this solo album. Wind Up needs to get off their lazy butts and create that full site. If the Relearn Love music video was ever made, release that. Give us a new interview with Scott on his web site, discussing his solo career. If he's got some of his solo songs done, give us some 30 sec clips to listen to. Heck, why not get Scott to write a weekly newsletter/diary? It would keep people interested in his solo career. I personally will support him musically whenever he releases the solo album, whether it's 2005 or 2007. He has my support musically because I loved what he did in Creed. I think when Scott does release his solo album, people are going to like what they hear.

[aussiecreeder]

Can't you guys see that many have got to a little cynical with what he'll produce. Axl Rose may have not produced a lot thus far but at least he has had some of the best musicians on the planet working with him like Buckethead, Robin Finck, Josh Freese and the like. Stapp had the Tea Party (very good band) and now he's got what...Goneblind. :rolleyes:

[DekWannaBFlea]

Can't you guys see that many have got to a little cynical with what he'll produce. Axl Rose may have not produced a lot thus far but at least he has had some of the best musicians on the planet working with him like Buckethead, Robin Finck, Josh Freese and the like. Stapp had the Tea Party (very good band) and now he's got what...Goneblind. :rolleyes:

Buckethead isn't with him anymore.

[Dogstar]

Key phrase *has* had...:D...anyway, I have some skepticism, but I hope I'm wrong.

[Unforgiven Fan]

scott may have made some bad choices musically...but the fact of the matter is that he is a source of a lot of jokes and critizism about how he acts...the media hates him and it is hard to rise above that to become commerical...

[aussiecreeder]

Buckethead isn't with him anymore.

Yes this is true! :) But at least they had studio time and actually recorded some music including Magdascar which is an amazing song. When Scott gets a drummer the calibre of Josh Freese in his studio then I will salivate but until then........

[titan9]

scott may have made some bad choices musically...but the fact of the matter is that he is a source of a lot of jokes and critizism about how he acts...the media hates him and it is hard to rise above that to become commerical...

Quite true. It was, I guess, popular to hate Creed and, more specifically, Stapp. I remember watching The Best Week Ever on VH1 right after Creed broke up, and all those people on there being happy about it. Worst thing was this stupid idiot comedian(who isn't even funny!!!) making fun of Stapp singing WAWO.

[Agent D]

I remember watching The Best Week Ever on VH1 right after Creed broke up, and all those people on there being happy about it. Worst thing was this stupid idiot comedian(who isn't even funny!!!) making fun of Stapp singing WAWO.

I think I saw that. I hate that f'ing show with a passion. Man, of all the retrospective shows on VH1, I hate that one the most. Nobody comedians making fun of celebs who at least have some shred of purpose.

[titan9]

Actually, I don't normally mind that show. Sometimes the show is kinda funny, and I do watch it every now and then. But I didn't think the Creed mocking was funny at all.(and, I believe they've mocked Creed before) I think I heard somewhere that Stapp was actually on one of the episodes of I Love the 90s. I never happened to catch that episode, though.

[Agent D]

His appearance on I Love the 90s was very brief. I don't remember the context it was in but even that had some weird attempt to mock him. I honestly didn't get it. They put his head on the body of a cartoon monkey or something.

Anyway, it just bugs me because VH1 were such big supporters of Creed for so long and suddenly they're ragging on them and Scott in particular as well.

[titan9]

No kidding, they were big supporters of Creed. I remember seeing the video for OLB for the first time on VH1's Fresh music. And Creed always had good success on the top 20 countdown. One positive is that they've been good supporters of Alter Bridge so far. Hopefully they are the same way when Scott's CD comes out.

[Agent D]

One positive is that they've been good supporters of Alter Bridge so far. Hopefully they are the same way when Scott's CD comes out.

Yes, I'm very happy VH1 is supporting AB so much. Hopefully they'll do the same for Scott. Of course, who knows. A long time from now, maybe VH1 will suddenly turn on them again. :mad1:

[titan9]

Yeah, but I'd like to think that they'll play Stapp's videos, and play them often. I'm hopeful when it comes to that. VH1 and Fuse are definitely alot better than MTV. MTV hasn't been good since they got rid of MTV Rock, one of the greatest channels ever.

[Agent D]

Yeah, but I'd like to think that they'll play Stapp's videos, and play them often. I'm hopeful when it comes to that. VH1 and Fuse are definitely alot better than MTV. MTV hasn't been good since they got rid of MTV Rock, one of the greatest channels ever.

I hope they will too.

I was never able to experience the joys of MTV Rock. :(

[titan9]

Yeah, I briefly got to experience it for 6 months. We finally got digital cable and with it came hundreds of channels. So MTV Rock was one of them. They played some good stuff on there. That was the only MTV station where you'd see nothing but Rock. Drowning Pool, Metallica, lots of Rock artists on there. MTV 2 plays Rock videos during the "Rock Countdown" show. But I rarely see Rock videos on the original MTV, or even the new MTV Hitz.

[The Lithium]

I think it's wrong that he's doing Creed songs, we call them CREED songs for a reason!
I so agree!!

[Jooji_2]

The fact of the matter is, is that Stapp is simply not delivering. When you don't deliver to your fans, they become antsy, restless, and soon get tired of waiting. Yes, we've heard "rumours" of a solo record, which was originally set for release in NOVEMBER, then pushed back to, what we HOPE, is now March 2005. But, if he's truly in the studio right now, and if he wants to keep his fans interested, give them some news! Some video clips! Some music snippets! Something! The last thing we heard was "Relearn Love," and then a remixed version. And, yes, I know, we've all seen him on television, doing "Higher" with the guys from Goneblind. But, where's the new stuff? Like I said, if you don't deliver, then there's no ending to hint at.


Maybe the reason for the delay is that apparently there has been a change in Producers......

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:ITFMFyGQNOYJ:www.lasvegascitylife.com/articles/2004/12/23/music/fear_%26_lounging/fearlounge.txt+scott+stapp+new+york+city&hl=en

This information was posted at PBF by Frankie. I'm guessing that a change in producers would be reason enough that the release should be delayed.

Hope that url works....I don't know how to post them here. The gist of the information was that Ron St. Germain is now the producer for Stapps solo release.

[The Lithium]

Still, if things like that happens you've gotta tell the fans! AB would have done it the very same day!

[titan9]

You know what? I blame Wind Up for the lack of information and lack of news, not Stapp. Wind Up needs to get off their lazy butts and give us some information. Why not get Stapp to write a little update every now and then? And why not release the Relearn Love video? Just give us something until his solo CD comes out. I am, however, relieved that he's no longer working with that R&B producer. Hopefully the new guy is a better fit for Stapp.

[Higher_Desire]

Overall, I agree with you Andrew, though another point could be for how big his head got during his career. Somewhere along the line, he began to care about the money more than the music, which from what we've heard from Mark, was a big contributer to his not wanting to work with Scott anymore.

With regards to the delays, it gets annoying because this isn't the first time it's happened. Remember the original release date for Weathered? Remember the DVD? Remember tours we were promised? The list goes on. Stapp never wanted to make things public. He even said he didn't think a formal annoucement was needed on the breakup of Creed. He refused to let what was happening on the Weathered tour to be made public (rehab from his accident, medication, withdrawl from the guys, etc.) Mark has always been more on a level to talk to the fans and keep them up to date on what is happening than Scott.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of his, but it just seems that his priorities are a little skewed.


H-D :pimp:

[ctfan]

Overall, I agree with you Andrew, though another point could be for how big his head got during his career. Somewhere along the line, he began to care about the money more than the music, which from what we've heard from Mark, was a big contributer to his not wanting to work with Scott anymore.

With regards to the delays, it gets annoying because this isn't the first time it's happened. Remember the original release date for Weathered? Remember the DVD? Remember tours we were promised? The list goes on. Stapp never wanted to make things public. He even said he didn't think a formal annoucement was needed on the breakup of Creed. He refused to let what was happening on the Weathered tour to be made public (rehab from his accident, medication, withdrawl from the guys, etc.) Mark has always been more on a level to talk to the fans and keep them up to date on what is happening than Scott.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of his, but it just seems that his priorities are a little skewed.


H-D :pimp:


You don't make money unless you tour. Just ask Dave Matthews. Stapp, I believe was the one who wanted a break...needed a break. He had family. And Mark accused him of being lazy. Go fucking figure.

He refused??? HE REFUSED???? :wtf: Jeez, you really need to read up a bit more dude, he explained all that a long time ago. He didn't refuse anything, he was TOLD not to make anything public. Mark doesn't keep his fans up to date on shit, esp boards like this....Mike does it for him. Last I remember, Stapp doesn't have a brother to be his mouth piece.

Stapp has skewed priorities....LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh please, I think that's what the whole problem is...Stapp's priorites are right were they are supposed to be, and Mark didn't like it..... :D

[aussiecreeder]

You don't make money unless you tour. Just ask Dave Matthews. Stapp, I believe was the one who wanted a break...needed a break. He had family. And Mark accused him of being lazy. Go fucking figure.

He refused??? HE REFUSED???? :wtf: Jeez, you really need to read up a bit more dude, he explained all that a long time ago. He didn't refuse anything, he was TOLD not to make anything public. Mark doesn't keep his fans up to date on shit, esp boards like this....Mike does it for him. Last I remember, Stapp doesn't have a brother to be his mouth piece.

Stapp has skewed priorities....LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh please, I think that's what the whole problem is...Stapp's priorites are right were they are supposed to be, and Mark didn't like it..... :D

oh should i even respond......oh forget it he has over a year off. if any of us had even 2 months off we would be begging in the street for a handout. if mark has made things public (whoever was his "mouthpiece" is irrevelant) then stapp could have as well. the record company can't make him keep quiet neither could his management. i would assume he is going to tour this album and he's hoping for a creed reunion down the track. i would assume he's going to tour then cause he knows the other guys love it.

if stapp no longer wants to tour because of his responsblites that is fine and in fact better than fine. but that doesn't make mark or any of the others lesser human beings. lets face it, none of the other guys have the hundreds (yes i'm using hyperbole) of stories thrown around about them like stapp does. doesn't the fact that the tea party have also left after his creed bandmates did say something about what its like to work with stapp circa 2005?

[Dogstar]

if stapp no longer wants to tour because of his responsblites that is fine and in fact better than fine. but that doesn't make mark or any of the others lesser human beings. lets face it, none of the other guys have the hundreds (yes i'm using hyperbole) of stories thrown around about them like stapp does. doesn't the fact that the tea party have also left after his creed bandmates did say something about what its like to work with stapp circa 2005?
:clap: :clap: :clap:

[titan9]

I'll say one thing:if Stapp's not touring much and doing much because of being concerned about being a good father to his son, I completely understand that and support him. I don't think any of us can really talk about Stapp personally.....we don't know him. We THINK we know him, based on what has been said in public. But, we don't truly know him. We're not friends with him, we don't talk to him on the phone, most of us probably haven't even met him. Is it disappointing that there's a lack of news concerning his solo career? YES, it is. But do I blame Scott? No, not as much as I blame Wind Up. Wind Up could get off their lazy, fat butts and give us updates.

[aussiecreeder]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

thanks kerri! :) titan no we don't know stapp and we can only go by what we see and hear in the public eye. however if someone chooses to believe that fire doesn't accompany smoke then so be it if you know what i mean.

[tremonti4life04]

I hope beyond hope that stapp's album is worth the wait. I know i said a lot of things about stapp playing creed songs (and i still think its wrong) but at the same time, he was the lead singer for creed. What stapp needs to do is give us more detail about what hes doing, some pictures of him in the studio, some music, something, anything! I am one of those people who lose interest fast, but creed has kept my interest, hell, they are the reason i became a musician, and i give stapp credit as my vocal influence, but at the same time, im going to be highly upset with him if the date gets pushed back again. As a musician, i can understand his need for perfection, but at the same time, he needs to keep his fanbase interested, and im pretty close to losing interest, because im thinking alter bridge will have 3 new albums out before stapp puts one out (they are a fast group of individuals, for all we know, they could have a studio on their tour bus, recording new things as they ride along)

[The Lithium]

Haha, everyone is writing so long posts, I don't have the energy to read them :D

[Higher_Desire]

You don't make money unless you tour. Just ask Dave Matthews. Stapp, I believe was the one who wanted a break...needed a break. He had family. And Mark accused him of being lazy. Go fucking figure.
Granted, yes, they do make a lot of money on tour, that's not where all of their money comes from. When a band sells 30 million albums, that's a pretty nice band account figure. Mark accused him of being lazy because he didn't even know everything that was going on with Stapp. He told us so. Stapp was not the only one with a family. Mark is married. Flip is married and has a 1 year old daughter. I believe Myles is married. Trust me. That was not one of their biggest reasons.
He refused??? HE REFUSED???? :wtf: Jeez, you really need to read up a bit more dude, he explained all that a long time ago. He didn't refuse anything, he was TOLD not to make anything public. Mark doesn't keep his fans up to date on shit, esp boards like this....Mike does it for him. Last I remember, Stapp doesn't have a brother to be his mouth piece.
I read everything I could. And yes, he refused. He and some people close to him ADVISED him not to tell the whole story. It wasn't until after the breakup of Creed, and really, a few months ago, that Stapp began talking openly about it. He could have told us what was going on if he wanted to.

Mark talks to fans. At meet-and-greets, at concerts, in the streets. That's where we've gotten a lot of our information when AB was just beginning and how we first heard about the Creed breakup. Mark told a fan at a meet-and-greet on October 12th 2003 that "Creed as we know it is over" when a fan asked him a question. And, like aussiecreeder said, the mouthpiece (Mark or Mike) it is irrelevant.

Sure Scott doesn't have a brother for a mouthpiece, but he does have sisters, parents, public relations department, a personal assistant, managers, etc. One of them would do just fine.
Stapp has skewed priorities....LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh please, I think that's what the whole problem is...Stapp's priorites are right were they are supposed to be, and Mark didn't like it..... :D
So good priorities to you is not telling the fans what is going on, not wanting to do an album, or only working on it because you have to, cancelling tour dates and not explaining why, buy some land in Maui and escape for a year while not telling your bandmates what's going on, etc.?


H-D :pimp:

[titan9]

I hope beyond hope that stapp's album is worth the wait. I know i said a lot of things about stapp playing creed songs (and i still think its wrong) but at the same time, he was the lead singer for creed. What stapp needs to do is give us more detail about what hes doing, some pictures of him in the studio, some music, something, anything! I am one of those people who lose interest fast, but creed has kept my interest, hell, they are the reason i became a musician, and i give stapp credit as my vocal influence, but at the same time, im going to be highly upset with him if the date gets pushed back again. As a musician, i can understand his need for perfection, but at the same time, he needs to keep his fanbase interested, and im pretty close to losing interest, because im thinking alter bridge will have 3 new albums out before stapp puts one out (they are a fast group of individuals, for all we know, they could have a studio on their tour bus, recording new things as they ride along)

You know, I agree with just about everything you said. I'll be upset if the Album gets pushed back, too. Right now, the only people I'm upset with are Wind Up. Not Scott. Wind Up COULD release the video for Relearn Love. They COULD promote the song. They COULD give us some updates and finally make the full site. Like I've said before, wouldn't it be awesome if Stapp did, say, a weekly diary where he talks about what he's been doing? I don't think that would eat up too much of his time and it would show that he cares about the fans. Not only that, it would satisfy the fans because they'd be getting news about Stapp on a weekly basis. Quite frankly, I think Wind Up has made some terrible decisions with Stapp's solo career thus far. They didn't promote Relearn Love properly(again, where is the video that he made?) They haven't given Stapp a full site.(it didn't take them this long to give Alter Bridge or any other Wind Up band a full site) And they haven't kept us updated on Stapp. That's why I'm really most upset with Wind Up at the moment. If Stapp's debut solo CD gets pushed back because he hasn't finished it yet, then I'll be upset with Stapp. Until then, I'm upset with Wind Up because I'm blaming them for the lack of news. Oh, and how about a release date, Wind Up? Even just saying March/April 2005 would be helpful. :rolleyes:

The only positive thing I can say about Wind Up is that they're doing a good job with Alter Bridge. Not a great job, but a good one. Let's see some more promotion for AB, too.