Book of Mormon

[facelessman]

has anyone here ever read it? and what do you think of it?

[creedsister]

I have,,lost scriptures of the bible is what there book is made of , its blessed me ,but there are many books,so i keep this So i keep this verse in mind, from the bible,Ecc,ch 12 v,12 .14 ,,,Of Makinig of many books there is no end let us hear the conclusion Of the Whole Matter For God Shall Bring fourth Everywork into judgemeant With Every secret thing if its good or Evil,I Dont Study A lot of other books Because the anwsers Is in the bible,The Book of mormons i have read only to Get What The lord Had broke down in spirt That was secret in the bible,Seek and shall find,, I have nothing Against The mormons Book, Because its all coming from the same place Now a lot of people that i know do But there Morons A LOL} i really dont jude jeovha wittness Because there is a lot of hidden truths in all of these books Just like there is A lot of truth To diffrent religons, There All true to a certian point of you, People Is just narrow minded And Foucesd On what they think they know, I just do what jesus tell mes to do, Go find that Which is lost!!ROCK ON

[bgivens33]

I've read it(studied it more precisely)... it's not that much different from the Bible. Although, I was a bit biased going into the study, Mormon is the one religion that I seem to think is 100% manmade. I really really don't mean to offend any mormons with that, that's just the conclusion I've reached based on my own experiences. I some family(cousins ect.) who are mormon, and they are good people, I just think they are wrong.

[creedsister]

oh boy here we go again

[RMadd]

haven't read it... seems like it'd be interesting to do so, though, from a scholarly standpoint. no interest in converting to mormonism, after having read how it was concocted, so to speak.

[Higher_Desire]

... after having read how it was concocted, so to speak.
What exactly do you mean by that?

Many people claim that it was "written" by Joseph Smith. What I say is, how could a 14 year old boy, confused about religion, with a 4th grade home education, who lived on a farm in the 1800s, who had to read in the bible (James 1:5) to ask of God before realizing he could do so, have written such a book?

Here's a really good website that is about the testing of the validity of the Book of Mormon: www.the-book-of-mormon.com


H-D :banana:

[Lechium]

It is of the devil, I say we be good catholics and burn whoever reads this book right now, because they're gonna burn in hell anyhow, so what's the difference?

[facelessman]

im sorry you feel that way, but how can you think this is of the devil:
Ether 4:12
And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold, I am the Father, I am the clight, and the life, and the truth of the world.

is this not true?
how could you think that this book is of the devil if it says that?

[creedsister]

im sorry you feel that way, but how can you think this is of the devil:
Ether 4:12
And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold, I am the Father, I am the clight, and the life, and the truth of the world.

is this not true?
how could you think that this book is of the devil if it says that? B/c He is a moron that loves to get under your skin need i say more

[Lechium]

Now I can alwasy count on you guys to give me my intellegence assessment, and hears some other nice words... ahhh where would I be wihout you, dorks?

[creedsister]

Now I can alwasy count on you guys to give me my intellegence assessment, and hears some other nice words... ahhh where would I be wihout you, dorks? ye love you too you little demon!!!hehe

[Sincirr]

LOL

I wont be reading it too soon for the following reasons:

Mormon's believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.

In the beginning of mormonism, they belived that there was a celestial war, where some of the celestial beings fought, and others stayed neutral, the ones that stayed neutral were cursed to be born on earth with black skin, the dark skin being refered to as the Mark of Cain, and a curse. Cursed with black skin eh? Now they let them in their churches. They never used to.

They also belive that when a hard working mormon man dies, he get's his own planet, to have as much celestial sex with as many god-women as he likes, to procreate his planet.

They wont tell U that to your face though.

That is why I wont read the book...though I have read the first page and ALREADY there is a contradiction with the bible.

What also drives me nuts is that they believe that the bible is an apostate writing, but they claim to follow it? bah!

If U read the holy bible and follow it, dont read theirs till you know yours well.

[Bridge of Clay]

For those who read the Bible, what do you think of the 4th commandment, on Exodus 20? (About the Seventh-day).

[Sincirr]

Well we are not bound by the law anymore in the new covenant.

But what does everyone else think?

[Bridge of Clay]

"Well we are not bound by the law anymore in the new covenant."


Said who???

[facelessman]

LOL

I wont be reading it too soon for the following reasons:

Mormon's believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.

In the beginning of mormonism, they belived that there was a celestial war, where some of the celestial beings fought, and others stayed neutral, the ones that stayed neutral were cursed to be born on earth with black skin, the dark skin being refered to as the Mark of Cain, and a curse. Cursed with black skin eh? Now they let them in their churches. They never used to.

They also belive that when a hard working mormon man dies, he get's his own planet, to have as much celestial sex with as many god-women as he likes, to procreate his planet.

They wont tell U that to your face though.

That is why I wont read the book...though I have read the first page and ALREADY there is a contradiction with the bible.

What also drives me nuts is that they believe that the bible is an apostate writing, but they claim to follow it? bah!

If U read the holy bible and follow it, dont read theirs till you know yours well.
omg where do you get all your false information from. im surprised at how wrong you are. i dont even know where to start. its a shame when ppl think they know what theyre talkin about when they really dont. and its more shamefull when they dont bother to find out the truth, and they draw their own conclusions.

[facelessman]

oh my, im still in disbelieve at sincirrs remarks. how ingnorant can someone get.

[Higher_Desire]

LOL

I wont be reading it too soon for the following reasons:

Mormon's believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.

In the beginning of mormonism, they belived that there was a celestial war, where some of the celestial beings fought, and others stayed neutral, the ones that stayed neutral were cursed to be born on earth with black skin, the dark skin being refered to as the Mark of Cain, and a curse. Cursed with black skin eh? Now they let them in their churches. They never used to.

They also belive that when a hard working mormon man dies, he get's his own planet, to have as much celestial sex with as many god-women as he likes, to procreate his planet.

They wont tell U that to your face though.

That is why I wont read the book...though I have read the first page and ALREADY there is a contradiction with the bible.

What also drives me nuts is that they believe that the bible is an apostate writing, but they claim to follow it? bah!

If U read the holy bible and follow it, dont read theirs till you know yours well.
Wow. Sincirr, I'm afraid you are HORRIBLY mistaken.

1. Yes. Lucifer and Jesus are brothers, but your picture is a bit blurred. In the beginning, God wanted to send someone to earth to guide the people. Lucifer said that if God sent him, everyone would do the right thing and return to live with God. Jesus said that people would have their agency, and would be tested to be sure they were worthy of living in Heaven again. That's the idea God wanted. That is when the war in heaven broke out. 1/3 of the spirits chose to follow Lucifer, and 2/3 follow Jesus. Those 1/3 that followed Lucifer will never be able to gain physical bodies or come to earth to be born, because they were escorted out of heaven and cut off from the presence of God. That is when Lucifer became Satan, or the fallen angel.

2. There was no "cursing of black skin" in heaven. When people on earth fell away, it says their "skin was darkened," yet it does not mean literally. It is an expression. Blacks were never not allowed to join the church, but it was not until the 1940s when they were allowed to hold the Priesthood.

3. Where in the heck did you hear that Mormon men get their own planet to have sex on with all the women they want? :wtf: That is ludacris and is in no way taught. What is taught is that depending on what type of life you lived depends on where you get to go in heaven, being the Celestial, Terrestrial, or Telestial Kingdom, or to Hell. Telestial Kingdom is believed to be like earth, and where people who have not had the oppertunity to learn of Christ go to learn, and eventually progress. The Celestial is the highest, and Terrestrial is in between. When you die, you can live with your family again. Spouse, children, parents, siblings, extended family, etc. You don't get your own friggin' planet. Sex is believed to be for the sole purpose of procreation. One of the single-most important and powerful abilities humans have.

4. What on the first page of the BoM contradicts the Bible?

5. The Bible is NOT an apostate writing. The 8th article of faith states: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God." Biblical teachings are extremly important. The Bible is a record of the beginning of the world, how God operated, the life and death of Christ, all in the old world. The Book of Mormon is the account of Christ in the new world, after his ressurection and coming to the Americas. The BoM and Bible go hand in hand. One is not better than the other. Both are used in teaching.

All anti-mormons use the same old tired arguments. It is best to get your facts straight and, more importantly, KNOW THE TEACHINGS before you bring accusations. I guarantee you that you do not have a vast enough knowledge of the religion to claim what you do. FYI - Course of study this year in Institute... The Old Testament.

Please get your facts straight. What other accusations do you have?


H-D :note:

[creedsister]

"Well we are not bound by the law anymore in the new covenant."


Said who??? Jesus Christ

[creedsister]

Please understand im not Downing Anybody Beliefs. I dont Do that B/c I belife That God is Always In Controll of Everything At All times And He Moves diffrently On Every Soul For His Own Reasons. But If Somebodys Lost Out there And Needs Help. Im Going To Send Theme Back To Calavary Amen!! Which Is Down on Your Kness Were Ever It Maybe. And Cry Out To your Daddy He will Listen. {There Are Many Books} And God Has Given Me A lot About This one. That I wont say Here!! But I will Say this. Then You Guys Go Figure Umm..k In The Beging Was The Word Which Is The Bible Umm k And The Word Was God. And The Word Became Flesh Which Is Jesus christ. Lord Of us all. Who said Im The Light Of The World. And The Truth In The Way No man can reach Father , Except By Jesus Christ. The Only Thing That Man Was Given To be set free On Earth Was The Bible The Word Of God. And If Ye Be wise U would Know Its Powerfull Book Of Secrets. And Now guys It Would be A Great Time to Start Trying To Read The Bible. B/c HES AT THE DOOR..The Bible Is overrated it Seems Now A days. But The Probleam I See That Its Very Underated. Because Knowlege Has Not Grew!! Damn Shame!!! But hey U Guys I think U Guys Are Great And What I Say I Say Out Of Love to my Fellow brothers In sisters In Christ!!! READ THE BIBLE. You Might Be supprised What u will Learn At these Times. And Lay Off my Buddy Sincirr. From A Certian Point of You my buddy Was Right. And Blessed Me When I read It. Why B/c I read The Bible...And Please Stop With The who Knows More About What I Know About Stuff!! Bottom Line Is...In To You Truly Know Your self And could bet your life on it How would Ya Know~~But I know you Guys You Love To Argue!!!Jesus Is the only One that can Lead you To Truth And His word And once You Find Truly Find that Peace And Truth U Would Not Trade It For ANYTHING. Or ANYBODY....Just love each other the way hes loved us all..........Peace :rofl: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam:

[facelessman]

. Those 1/3 that followed Lucifer will never be able to gain physical bodies or come to earth to be born, because they were escorted out of heaven and cut off from the presence of God. :those 1/3 are the evil spirits on earth.
. 2. There was no "cursing of black skin" in heaven. When people on earth fell away, it says their "skin was darkened," yet it does not mean literally. It is an expression. Blacks were never not allowed to join the church, but it was not until the 1940s when they were allowed to hold the Priesthood.
H-D :note:
namely, lamanites

i love you, colin. thanks for having the patience to explain all that.

[Luke4488]

LOL

I wont be reading it too soon for the following reasons:

Mormon's believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.

In the beginning of mormonism, they belived that there was a celestial war, where some of the celestial beings fought, and others stayed neutral, the ones that stayed neutral were cursed to be born on earth with black skin, the dark skin being refered to as the Mark of Cain, and a curse. Cursed with black skin eh? Now they let them in their churches. They never used to.

They also belive that when a hard working mormon man dies, he get's his own planet, to have as much celestial sex with as many god-women as he likes, to procreate his planet.

They wont tell U that to your face though.

That is why I wont read the book...though I have read the first page and ALREADY there is a contradiction with the bible.

What also drives me nuts is that they believe that the bible is an apostate writing, but they claim to follow it? bah!

If U read the holy bible and follow it, dont read theirs till you know yours well.

very well said :thumbsup:
i studied mormonism, and im not trying to say mormons are evil and should be shot or anything like that, just saying that they are misled, and that the book of mormon and the whole mormon religion is a bunch of :horseshit

[WeatheredWoman]

Everytime I see this thread come up on the forum I think it says: "Book of Moron"

LMAO! :roll:

So sorry but can't help it!! That's what it says when I read it quickly :)

[Higher_Desire]

very well said :thumbsup:
i studied mormonism, and im not trying to say mormons are evil and should be shot or anything like that, just saying that they are misled, and that the book of mormon and the whole mormon religion is a bunch of :horseshit
No, not well said. Like I put in my post, that post from Sincirr was filled with half truths and whole lies. Not to say I wouldn't mind having my own planet where I could have constant sex with whoever I want, but that rumor is udderly and completly false.

Creedsister, I don't think I need to "lay-off Sincirr" since I wasn't ragging on him, just telling him the TRUTH and shedding some light on his misleadings. Ideas and beliefs of anti-Mormons are like an out of focus camera. If you take a picture with it out of focus, the result will be forever blurred. I was only adjusting the lens so a clear picture can be taken.

Facelessman, you're welcome. I love you too.


H-D :punk2:

[Luke4488]

"Not to say I wouldn't mind having my own planet where I could have constant sex with whoever I want..."
----------------------------------------------------------
:lolsign: :lolsign: :lolsign: :lolsign: :lolsign: :lolsign:
Cant argue with that!

[creedsister]

Everytime I see this thread come up on the forum I think it says: "Book of Moron"

LMAO! :roll:

So sorry but can't help it!! That's what it says when I read it quickly :) :lolsign: :lolsign: LMAO ;)

[Higher_Desire]

Everytime I see this thread come up on the forum I think it says: "Book of Moron"

LMAO! :roll:

So sorry but can't help it!! That's what it says when I read it quickly :)
Ya know, there actually is a man in the BoM named Moron... although it is pronounced -- mor'un. He was the son of Ethem, father of Coriantor, and a late Jaredite king who ruled wickedly. He was eventually overthrown and lived in captivity. Just some random info for ya.

Oh, and here's another random piece of info for ya... We were labeled as "Mormon" because someone who had no knowledge of the church derived it as "Book of Mormons." Mormon is a person in the book as well. He was a Nephite prophet and General in the Nephite army, who kept most of the record that is now the Book of Mormon. He was one among many.


H-D :punk2:

[facelessman]

very well said :thumbsup:
i studied mormonism, and im not trying to say mormons are evil and should be shot or anything like that, just saying that they are misled, and that the book of mormon and the whole mormon religion is a bunch of :horseshit
no, its not well said, since he doesnt know what hes talkin about

[facelessman]

youre awesome, colin! :banana:

[Sincirr]

Aaaah - God with flesh and bone...I should have realised H-D was a mormon. That was very sneaky of U.

No, I would never read the BOM all together cos there are way too many links to Joseph Smith (the founder)'s tie with the MASONIC! J.S.Jr. had a masonic jupiter talisman around his neck when he died. This talisman is documented in a magic book printed in 1801, as said to give the ability to call upon the celestial intelligences assigned to that particular talisman, to assist one in all endeavours. There were 3 names written on Joseph's talisman, and they were some of these spirits. It would give the wearer riches, favour and power.

Also the story of Enoch, (which is Fremason mythology), who J.S.Jr likes to call himself, is soooooo similar to your Joseph, and his friend Moroni, who placed the slab over the cavity in the hill, (just like Enoch did), that it just scares me. Way too freaky for me if U know where all of Fremasonry comes from. Plus it is documented that your Joseph's family had ties with magic wasnt it?

I also wont read it cos I dont believe that Jesus, as mormons believe, had WIVES! I dont believe that he was married to Mary, Martha, and Mary Magdelene and had kids. How come Matthew Mark Luke and John never mentioned them???

I also belive that My Father who art in Heaven, is not on a planet near a mysterious star called Kolob, making celestial children as your beliefs insist! If that's the truth, I have drawn my own conclusion!

There is a mormon teaching that there are a great number of planets scattered throughout outer space that are ruled by countless exalted men-gods who once were human "like us". Or has this changed? Also:

Your doctrine of the law of eternal progression also states:
As man is, God was
And as God is, man may become.

Mormon women cannot become god's only godesses, who's role it is to eternally bear children as one of many wives to a god-husband. This was the teaching in your church, unless they have changed it as well.

ALSO! In a sermon given by your Joseph,
"God was once a man like us and dwelt on earth, the same as Jesus Christ did, and you have to learn to be gods yourselves the same as all gods before you."

So what am I supposed to think!!!! Or anyone else on this board for that matter!

Also concerning the vote that was taken to see whether Lucifer or his "brother" Jesus would become the saviour of this new world Earth, I dont understand how any mormon can say U follow the bible and then claim that Jesus said that everyone would be tested to be sure that they were worthy of living in Heaven again. Have U not read Romans? Go study it, or are U too scared?

Yes, your understanding on the mark of cain I have read, and also Brigham Young in his Journal of discourses, states that because of killing his brother, the Lord put a mark on him which is the flat nose and dark skin, but I have read that it went on before that. But it's all irrelevant cos the belief system was not Godly inspired, but founded on bigotry. A means to initially label anyone of black skin as generationally cursed, their color "emblematical of eternal darkness" (J.F. Smith, in his book, The Way To Perfection); the blessings of the gospel being withheald from them.

But its all okay now, whether true or not, cos an alive prophet is more important than a dead one, so U can change it all. They are allowed into the priesthood. And that breaks my heart!

Also, concerning prophecies, Joseph Smith's ones have been edited. Original paragraphs that have been taken out that didnt come true. If U get in touch with someone that was in the church around 30 odd years ago, they may have the original prophecies. It also needs to be said that many non-mormons have dissagreed with Jo's translation's of the egyptian stuff that he found.

"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly."
Well that is just so convenient. Oh come on!!!! As far as your religion believes, every translation is apostate! Your Orson Pratt said himself, " Who in their right mind, could for one moment, suppose the Bible in it's present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution..." So yeh, you guys can believe the Bible to be the word of God as long as its translated correctly! Or do U guys have your own translation of the Bible as well? I'd love to get my hands on it.

I am exhausted! I missed CSI and that makes me cross, so I'm going, but I answered most of your post, and I may be back for more, cos I recon I missed some.

I wont have someone tell me I dont know what I am talking about, especially a mormon of this generation. The institute? Would that happen to be the BYI? Cos if it is, you are just gonna be brainwashed some more.

[facelessman]

No, I would never read the BOM all together cos there are way too many links to Joseph Smith (the founder)'s tie with the MASONIC! J.S.Jr. had a masonic jupiter talisman around his neck when he died. This talisman is documented in a magic book printed in 1801, as said to give the ability to call upon the celestial intelligences assigned to that particular talisman, to assist one in all endeavours. There were 3 names written on Joseph's talisman, and they were some of these spirits. It would give the wearer riches, favour and power. .
Do you believe in magic? haha


I also wont read it cos I dont believe that Jesus, as mormons believe, had WIVES! I dont believe that he was married to Mary, Martha, and Mary Magdelene and had kids. How come Matthew Mark Luke and John never mentioned them???.
no we dont, who told you that? agian, anotherone of your false information

I also belive that My Father who art in Heaven, is not on a planet near a mysterious star called Kolob, making celestial children as your beliefs insist! If that's the truth, I have drawn my own conclusion!.

no, thats not what kolob is. again youve been wrongly informed


Your doctrine of the law of eternal progression also states:
As man is, God was
And as God is, man may become..

yeah, then what do we have to look forward to in Eternity?
Mormon women cannot become god's only godesses, who's role it is to eternally bear children as one of many wives to a god-husband. This was the teaching in your church, unless they have changed it as well. .
no. wrong again. we believe in eternal married. meaning that when you get married here on earth, it lasts all eternity, and you can spent all eternity with you spouse and children. doent that sound good? spending all eternity with the ppl you love.


Also concerning the vote that was taken to see whether Lucifer or his "brother" Jesus would become the saviour of this new world Earth, I dont understand how any mormon can say U follow the bible and then claim that Jesus said that everyone would be tested to be sure that they were worthy of living in Heaven again. Have U not read Romans? Go study it, or are U too scared?.so what is this life for? its a probationary period.




But its all okay now, whether true or not, cos an alive prophet is more important than a dead one, so U can change it all. They are allowed into the priesthood. And that breaks my heart!.
yeah, what does moses have to do with what we see in these days. moses was given revelation to deal with the issues of that day, and the prophet of today (Gordon b. Hinkley) is given revelation to deal with issues of these days.



"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly."
Well that is just so convenient. Oh come on!!!! As far as your religion believes, every translation is apostate! Your Orson Pratt said himself, " Who in their right mind, could for one moment, suppose the Bible in it's present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution..." So yeh, you guys can believe the Bible to be the word of God as long as its translated correctly! Or do U guys have your own translation of the Bible as well? I'd love to get my hands on it.
so youre telling me that it was not possible for wicked men to get their hands on the bible, and translate it as they please. news flash for you: it happened. many plain and precious things were taken out. plus, we dont discredit all translations of the bible. we do use the king james version.

so heres my conclusion. b4 you think you know about our religion, maybe you should read the book of mormon, maybe you should talk to missionaries, and maybe then youll find out the truth.

[facelessman]

do you even know how joseph smith died?

[creedsister]

Nice post Sincirr!

[creedsister]

Do you believe in magic? haha



no we dont, who told you that? agian, anotherone of your false information



no, thats not what kolob is. again youve been wrongly informed




yeah, then what do we have to look forward to in Eternity?

no. wrong again. we believe in eternal married. meaning that when you get married here on earth, it lasts all eternity, and you can spent all eternity with you spouse and children. doent that sound good? spending all eternity with the ppl you love.


so what is this life for? its a probationary period.





yeah, what does moses have to do with what we see in these days. moses was given revelation to deal with the issues of that day, and the prophet of today (Gordon b. Hinkley) is given revelation to deal with issues of these days.




so youre telling me that it was not possible for wicked men to get their hands on the bible, and translate it as they please. news flash for you: it happened. many plain and precious things were taken out. plus, we dont discredit all translations of the bible. we do use the king james version.

so heres my conclusion. b4 you think you know about our religion, maybe you should read the book of mormon, maybe you should talk to missionaries, and maybe then youll find out the truth. What I see Here Theres Only One Truth And One way And One Book What These other Books Are Is Confusion!!! And A lot Of prophets Gone Fricking Mad With No Balance From The Flesh And The Spirt It Happens!!!

[creedsister]

I Rest my Case

[WeatheredWoman]

Love you sis! :kiss:

:D

[Luke4488]

good post sincirr.

One other thing that is wrong with the mormon religion is that they believe that they can become gods by working hard all their life. Not true. First off, humans can never become gods, and you cant work your way into heaven. Salvation is a gift from the one true God. To get into heaven all u have to do is accept it. Read the New Testament. Jesus said "No one gets to the Father except through me." He didnt say that you can earn your way to heaven.

[creedsister]

:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: Love you sis! :kiss: U2 Not the band Just u2 !!!! ROCK ON!!! Stef :rofl: :jam

:D

[Higher_Desire]

Wow. That took the better part of an hour to read. Where to begin, where to begin...

Firstly, one of my professors here at school (not a mormon) taught me very early that in order to understand anything, you cannot only know the "what." You also have to know the "why." Anyone can say something that sounds intelligent, but you need the solid proof to back it up.

Although there is truth to Joseph having a talisman, it is not all as you explained it. Whether he had it around his neck when he died, I don't know, but what I do know is this. During that period of history, mythological healing was practiced by many. Joseph's mother was Presbiterian. His father was Methodist. Good luck charms were widely used. One such example is that it was believed you could cure warts by having someone rub a cut up onion on it, say some sort of Greek or Roman prayer, throw the onion out the door, and you would be fine. We look at that as "whoa, those people were weird." When in reality, at the time, it was not. Just as taking medicine today is practiced, people in a hundred years may look at us like we were weird for what we put in it. These types of healings are also spoken of in the Bible. The plant known as Balm of Gillead was a healing plant. Also in Biblical times, you can read of Urims and Thummims. They were essentially Prayer Rocks. When people would pray, these these rocks (that they would go outside and find) were the focal point. Now what do we do? Clasp our hands or fold our arms, close our eyes, and bow are head. Times change. If he was indeed burried with the Talisman, in the end, is not up to him, but up to whoever prepared his body for burrial. Probably Emma Smith.

I never knew Joseph liked calling himself Enoch. If a story has a parallel... whoopdy doo. Many stories do. Many stories of the early Assyrians and Phenocians (as written in Homer's Illiad and Oddyssey) were believed to be myths, yet historians are proving as true. Maybe this is just one more.

We don't teach that Jesus had wives. All we know is what has been written. Nothing has been written by any church official that says he did.

It is believed (through revelation of Moses) that heaven IS the star of Kolob. It is where heaven is. God and Jesus live in Heaven. Where do you believe heaven is? If it is in the clouds, why have I not seen God when I've flown in an airplane? We cannot have "celestial children" as we wish. Children can ONLY be concieved on earth. There is no "making babies" in heaven.

I have heard of no teaching that says we have our own planets. Yes, we can become gods, but we don't rule ourselves. Take this for example. If you work on a construction site and want to do work on the roof, you have to check with your foreman to see if it's ok or if he wants you to work on siding. Just because we believe that ALL PEOPLE will become as gods, not only mormons. Just becuase you have the power, doesn't mean thats all you spend your time doing. Addressing your next point again, women will have the same capibilities, and will not be bearing children in heaven.

There was not "vote" between Lucifer and Jesus. Jesus said that God's will would be done. Lucifer wanted his way. God chose Jesus. Yes, I have read Romans. One of my favorite Bible verses is Romans 1:16.

The Mark of Cain is not necessarilly literal. What it means is that he was in some way marked that other's would know what he had done. Yes, at one time many believed that this "blackness" was literal. Although blacks were allowed into the church, they could not hold the priesthood until it was better understood that ALL worthy men could hold the priesthood. The church is of God and not founded on biggotry. How can people claim that a church founded on the principles of God and Jesus Christ and their unconditional love for us, and that we can all return to live with them someday be an appostate and worship a devil?

Things don't change with a prophet dies and another is called. They recieve revelation from Jesus and God and uphold the church. There was a lot of controversy in the Church when Spencer W. Kimball recieved the revelation that blacks could hold the priesthood and many people left the church because of it. Equal rights are different today than they were a hundred years ago. Just like what I addressed before about medicine. In the Old Testament, the people would offer burnt sacrifices to God. We don't do that anymore. Do you think we should? Since God wanted it and now it's all different?

I have never heard of the prophecies being edited. What do you mean "Egyptian stuff"?

We believe that the most correct translation of the Bible (other than the original Hebrew and Greek versions) is the King James Bible. You can go buy it at any bookseller. Over time, language changes. The King James Bible is not the first english translation. There were many before that. King James had it translated in 1666 by 24 scholars. We believe it to be the most correct. The New International Verson, the New King James, the New Revised Standard, and all the rest, although good, are different from the original. Things that would be said then now have different meanings. Not in all, but many aspects. The King James Version is not even 100%, so to copy in in modern-day language changes even more. A professor of mine who is Jewish has commented that although the King James is very good, it's not as accurate as the original Hebrew. He also says that Mormonism and Judiasm are extremly similar, and though he doesn't believe in the BoM, he has great respect for it. He has a doctrate in History and has studdied over 50 religions. Do you want me to believe now that Judiasm, one of the world's oldest religions, is an appostacy?

BYI? I think you mean BYU. It stands for Brigham Young University. Anyone can attend it if they so choose. Just like any other school. Institute is a program that is taught where there is no LDS run school. Here on my campus, for example. Trust me. BYU is fine. I'm telling you all this because you DON'T know what you are talking about. Like I said in the beginning, to know what you are talking about, you can't only know the what, but also the why.

The idea of Monotheism began thousands of years ago with the Hebrews around 1600 BCE, or 3600 years ago. Before that, to the Assyrians, Mesopotamians, Egyptians, and many others, were Polytheistic. Even that has changed. Which is correct? The bible doesn't date back that far. The bible is based in Judiasm.

In old days, people use to use a stick to find water in the ground. Sounds ludacris, right? We have little to no need to do that today, therefore it was stupid they thought they could do that. In the book of Isiah, we are taught that Jesus is the stick of the redeemer and will lead us to everlasting waters.

1 Samuel 16:7 states that men judge based on the outward appearance, but the Lord judges based on the intentions of the heart. Our intentions are good. All the people of the world will be judged according to his or her own actions. If we (all people of the world) do what we should, as governed by God, we will live with him again someday.

One last teaching of Jesus Christ: "Judge not lest ye be judged." Come back anytime with more brain-busters.

Just out of curiosity, what religion do you believe in?


H-D :)

Facelessman -- Thanks for your input as well.

[Higher_Desire]

good post sincirr.

One other thing that is wrong with the mormon religion is that they believe that they can become gods by working hard all their life. Not true. First off, humans can never become gods, and you cant work your way into heaven. Salvation is a gift from the one true God. To get into heaven all u have to do is accept it. Read the New Testament. Jesus said "No one gets to the Father except through me." He didnt say that you can earn your way to heaven.
Faith without works is dead. In other words, just because someone says they believe doesn't make it so. You must prove your worthiness. Just becuase everyone is loved by the Lord doesn't mean that you're guaranteed salvation. Prove you love, and you'll have nothing to worry about.


H-D :)

[Luke4488]

Faith without works is dead. In other words, just because someone says they believe doesn't make it so. You must prove your worthiness. Just becuase everyone is loved by the Lord doesn't mean that you're guaranteed salvation. Prove you love, and you'll have nothing to worry about.

What do you mean its dead? Didnt you ever read that in the Bible? It says that you cannot earn your way to heaven, and it says it clear as day multiple times. I dont have time now, so for some time tomorrow I will try to give you the verses.

[WeatheredWoman]

Hmmm... I was just daydreaming... A dude-planet would be AWESOME!!! Where I would be a GODDESS and where males are only there to comfort me :naughty:

LMAO!!! Sorry guys... I don't believe in fairytales anymore! :(

[Higher_Desire]

Hmmm... I was just daydreaming... A dude-planet would be AWESOME!!! Where I would be a GODDESS and where males are only there to comfort me :naughty:

LMAO!!! Sorry guys... I don't believe in fairytales anymore! :(
If you've read the previous posts by either myself of Faceless, you know that the whole concept IS a fairy tale. Those planets do not exist and the Church does not teach that they exist.


H-D :)

[WeatheredWoman]

If you've read the previous posts by either myself of Faceless, you know that the whole concept IS a fairy tale. Those planets do not exist and the Church does not teach that they exist.

That's too bad :( I would have loved the idea though :)

But where do these so called nonsense came from??? Out of the blue?

[facelessman]

ppl like to skew information.

[facelessman]

Faith without works is dead. In other words, just because someone says they believe doesn't make it so. You must prove your worthiness. Just becuase everyone is loved by the Lord doesn't mean that you're guaranteed salvation. Prove you love, and you'll have nothing to worry about.


H-D :)
i was about to say that!

[facelessman]

What do you mean its dead? Didnt you ever read that in the Bible? It says that you cannot earn your way to heaven, and it says it clear as day multiple times. I dont have time now, so for some time tomorrow I will try to give you the verses.
try looking up James 2:17. know what youre talkin about b4 you speak

[facelessman]

in fact, read james 2:14-26. its all about works

[Sincirr]

Where to begin, where to begin...

Firstly, one of my professors here at school (not a mormon) taught me very early that in order to understand anything, you cannot only know the "what." You also have to know the "why." Anyone can say something that sounds intelligent, but you need the solid proof to back it up.
The what was the quote taken from Joseph smith that I posted where he claimed that all you guys are gods, and the why? Cos he wanted to be like God, and that is a sin, it got Lucifer thrown out of heaven.
During that period of history, mythological healing was practiced by many.
Yeh and it was wrong, and it was evil, and God made it very clear that He didnt want His people to be messing with that stuff.

BTW the Urim and thummin had no magic powers. They knew that.

I never knew Joseph liked calling himself Enoch.
It's in Doctrine and Covenants.

We don't teach that Jesus had wives. All we know is what has been written. Nothing has been written by any church official that says he did.
All U know is what has been written? Have U read it all? Have U read the uncut stuff? The writings change, even your statues change. Ask your leaders about the offering of Cain statue, I bet they deny it.

It is believed (through revelation of Moses) that heaven IS the star of Kolob. It is where heaven is. God and Jesus live in Heaven. Where do you believe heaven is? If it is in the clouds, why have I not seen God when I've flown in an airplane? We cannot have "celestial children" as we wish. Children can ONLY be concieved on earth. There is no "making babies" in heaven.
That comment on the clouds was lame. And heaven aint the planet Kolob. Theres nothing in the Bible that says that.
I have heard of no teaching that says we have our own planets. Yes, we can become gods, but we don't rule ourselves. Addressing your next point again, women will have the same capibilities, and will not be bearing children in heaven.
Listen, I know that U are an intelligent person. Your writings show this, but you need to research the history of your faith alot more.

How can people claim that a church founded on the principles of God and Jesus Christ and their unconditional love for us, and that we can all return to live with them someday be an appostate and worship a devil?
LOVE? What of shedding someone's blood as pardon for sin? Journal Of Discourses Vol 4 says that shedding someone's blood is loving our neighbour as ourselves! This is the history of your faith!

I have never heard of the prophecies being edited. What do you mean "Egyptian stuff"?
The papyrus fragments that U now know as The Pearl of Great Price. It seems that Egyptologists totally disagree with his translations.

He also says that Mormonism and Judiasm are extremly similar, and though he doesn't believe in the BoM, he has great respect for it. He has a doctrate in History and has studdied over 50 religions. Do you want me to believe now that Judiasm, one of the world's oldest religions, is an appostacy?
The similarities are in the rules taught by the authorities, that were not the Law, just extra rules and regulations added to the truth, kinda like U guys, yeh.

Your young religion's books cannot compare with the Bible, no matter what your professor says.

I dont know what I'm talking about? Thats crazy. You are smart. use your brain! I'm worried about U! Research more, seek and U shall find.

I'll leave the quotes concerning faith without works, cos they will be answered.

The idea of Monotheism began thousands of years ago with the Hebrews around 1600 BCE, or 3600 years ago. Before that, to the Assyrians, Mesopotamians, Egyptians, and many others, were Polytheistic. Even that has changed. Which is correct?

The belief of many Gods, not just one God?
Which is correct? Lets have a look in your King James bible eh?
Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me.

Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me.

Isaiah 46:5
5To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?

You guys think that U will be god's right? It's not biblical dude!
Want more proof:

Isaiah 43:10
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Your doctrine contradicts the true word of God. If your god belives that anyone can be God, your god is a false god and not the God of the Bible. You are not Christian. Your Christ is not Jesus Christ, The Savior.

[Sincirr]

Here's another hour of readin 4 ya.
Do you believe in magic? haha .
It would be foolish to say that magic does not have power. The fact that the mormon church still exists today proves that. No I do not like it, or indulge in it, because the bible states that it's practices are attestible to God. Joseph Smith would have read that and shouldnt have been wearing the talisman. If he was such a LEADER, he should have been setting an example! U DONT MESS WITH MAGIC!

no we dont, who told you that? agian, anotherone of your false information
It's not false. U have no idea about the truth of your relilgion. Your leaders are hiding the truth from you. Have they bothered to fill U in on the whole blood covenant thing, or shall I?

no, thats not what kolob is. again youve been wrongly informed
It's a star.

yeah, then what do we have to look forward to in Eternity?
Why are U asking me? That is YOUR CHURCHES BELIEF! Where do U think I got it from???

no. wrong again. we believe in eternal married. meaning that when you get married here on earth, it lasts all eternity, and you can spent all eternity with you spouse and children. doent that sound good? spending all eternity with the ppl you love.
Man are they taking U 4 a ride. If U really knew the truth, U wouldnt have anything to do with the LDS.

so what is this life for? its a probationary period.
Again, its your beliefs. Actually, print my stuff and go ask your leaders about it and see what they say. What are U even doing listeining to Creed, arent U only allowed to listen to stuff that is church approved?

See, it seems that only past generations actually know what your faith is really about, what goes on behind your walls. I have heard firsthand about the planet thing! Why should I believe a word U say! Youre probably hiding the truth!

yeah, what does moses have to do with what we see in these days. moses was given revelation to deal with the issues of that day, and the prophet of today (Gordon b. Hinkley) is given revelation to deal with issues of these days.
After Moses died, his "revelations" didnt die with him. They lasted till the new covenant. Quite a long time before it was changed. Not like U guys!

Truly, your religion is very different to the begining of mormonism. We havent even gone into the whole multiple wives on earth issue yet, which had something to do with why your Joseph died didn't it?

Joseph's prison door was left unlocked and supposedly Jo fired a pistol at some of the angry mob that was coming after him, and in the exchange of gunfire, Jo and his brother were killed, to answer your remark...

so youre telling me that it was not possible for wicked men to get their hands on the bible, and translate it as they please. news flash for you: it happened. many plain and precious things were taken out. plus, we dont discredit all translations of the bible. we do use the king james version.
Many precious things were taken out of Joseph Smith's prophecies as well, which would have proven that he WASNT a prophet of God, and we wouldnt have this huge mess that we do today!

so heres my conclusion. b4 you think you know about our religion, maybe you should read the book of mormon, maybe you should talk to missionaries, and maybe then youll find out the truth.
Who says I havent taked to your trained missionaries.

Do U call your higher leaders bishops? Well a guy up quite high in the ranks that left your church, his family left him as a result, so much for your whole family policy, has told me stuff about you guys that U dont even know yet. I hope U find the truth and the truth makes U free.

[creedsister]

:jam: :jam: :jam: :angel: Rocking Post Sincirr :) but what hurts me the most. is that these guys Are Allright. That Got Strong Will Which I love. And its A Damn Shame That Satan Has Lead The Precious Souls To A False Mixed. Up Doctrine And Crap. But Im praying For theme Both. You have Put A lot of time sincirr your posts buddy thats Cool To God :) But let shead some. Light Which i may Be A bit Out of line. Even these Guys here Dan And H.D it sounds like there not listening At All. But Even They dont Say Here. Something Inside Of theme Is Coming Around. Its That Peace Inside us All. ;) ...Only That Peace Can Lead U To The Truth my Friends. Its That High Magic Come on Come On!!! Go Here>>> St John Chapter.14>25>31..And Sometimes There Is A Wall Of Relgions That Was Brought on B/c Hey Thats Just The Way We Was Raised!! but another Good Way To Get out Of the Wall Of Crap Is this If You Will>>St Matt>.Ch 15 Read It Guys!! And We Dont Become Gods People!! Theres Only one God like Sincirr Said From Isa. But That Does not Mean That God Does not hold his Elite Higher Than Most!!!If >>my Jesus Told A women In the Bible That He Could Not Judge Or Give Her Sons A place Beside The left or The Right Of His Father Throne He Said That Only His Father Could Give That Place!!! And Again About Faith Without Works. Yes Faith without Works Is Dead!! So Therfore if you Works Be Dead So Shall Your reward The More U Do For Gods Children The More U Have Set In his Is Favor!! But You Got To Want To!!!And Another Thing The Many Are Called!!! But The Chosen are Few!!! And There Royalty In The kingdom Of God!! which U guys Seem To wanna Be Gods but ya see The chosen does not Bost about These Things!! they Just Want Help Jesus Give His Children Life And Peace And A little Wisdom !!! To Get through life!! We try To help Each Other!!! So Guys Maybe Some One Wants To Use U Guys And Trying To Tell My Children I love You Follow Me!!! Im The Truth The way In the Life AND THERE IS ONLY ONE BOOK THATS MADE KNOWN TO MAN OF ME!!! HOLY BIBLE!!! HEs At The Door People To u Hearts In these Desprate Hours Knock And It Shall be Open!!!HE THAT HATH EAR LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE SPIRT SAITH UNTO HIM UN To The Churches!!!! VOICE AND OPEN THE DOOR I WILL COME IN TO HIM AND WILL SUP WITH HIM AND HIM WITH ME TO HIM THAT OVERCOMETH I WILL GRANT TO SIT WITH ME IN MY THRONE COME ON PEOPLE!!! EVEN AS I OVERCAME AND AM SET DOWN WITH MY FATHER IN HIS THRONE And Again!!! HE THAT HATH AN EAR LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE SPIRT SAITH UNTO THE CHURCHES Thats mormons Too!!! And I know some of you out there got Ears Your Not Deaf!!! Hey B/c U Love Creed !!!! LOL They Just Need Whashed Out A little!!!...Be Hold I Come Quickly!!!REV 22 >Verse 7.21............PEACE Be With U all!!! :angel: ROCK ON!!!!

[WeatheredWoman]

Well I was having a discussion today with some of my friends according this Mormon-thing and other religions too. You want to know what one of them said??? That the word Mormon translated in Chinese means "gates of hell"... how scary is that??? Just wanted to share this... No offense please!

[creedsister]

Well I was having a discussion today with some of my friends according this Mormon-thing and other religions too. You want to know what one of them said??? That the word Mormon translated in Chinese means "gates of hell"... how scary is that??? Just wanted to share this... No offense please! I know!! It All Leads to Hell When Ur Away From The Armour Of God!! Were Naked And Rite Open for Hells Demons To Come And Gives us Some really Bad Days!!! thy sheild thy buckling Thy Armour!!! Which Is Sharper Than A 2 Edged Sword That protects His babys From hell gates!!! Which Is The Holybible I Got To Shutup Now. Or Else I Wont!!!!!!!!! GOD BLESS U ALL!!!

[facelessman]

Well I was having a discussion today with some of my friends according this Mormon-thing and other religions too. You want to know what one of them said??? That the word Mormon translated in Chinese means "gates of hell"... how scary is that??? Just wanted to share this... No offense please!
Mormon was a name of the person that abridged the BOM...its not really out name. we rather be called LDS

[facelessman]

It's not false. U have no idea about the truth of your relilgion. Your leaders are hiding the truth from you. Have they bothered to fill U in on the whole blood covenant thing, or shall I?.

our leaders? youre acting like our leaders are some beaucratic(sp?) organizations. i know PERSONALY some of my leaders, and its nothing like that.





Man are they taking U 4 a ride. If U really knew the truth, U wouldnt have anything to do with the LDS.?.

if they are, im enjoying it. maybe you should join in the fun
What are U even doing listeining to Creed, arent U only allowed to listen to stuff that is church approved?
i can listen to marilyn manson if i want to. its all about free agnecy
See, it seems that only past generations actually know what your faith is really about, what goes on behind your walls. I have heard firsthand about the planet thing! Why should I believe a word U say! Youre probably hiding the truth!

you can listen to whatever you want to
After Moses died, his "revelations" didnt die with him. They lasted till the new covenant. Quite a long time before it was changed. Not like U guys! ?
yeah, the law of moses, what about it?
Truly, your religion is very different to the begining of mormonism. We havent even gone into the whole multiple wives on earth issue yet, which had something to do with why your Joseph died didn't it?? did Abraham not have 2 wives?





Who says I havent taked to your trained missionaries. ??
ive been training to be a missionary for 6 months, so i guess you have. its not like it matters anyway, you dont listen to what we have to say.
Do U call your higher leaders bishops? Well a guy up quite high in the ranks that left your church, his family left him as a result, so much for your whole family policy, .
yes we do call them bishops, but thats just on the ward level. anyway, who said families in out church are perfect. yes, we emphasize the importants of families, but satan tries all he can to destroy them, and sometimes he suceeds. i know divorced families, adn they are still strong in the church.

[Luke4488]

Faith without works is dead. In other words, just because someone says they believe doesn't make it so. You must prove your worthiness. Just becuase everyone is loved by the Lord doesn't mean that you're guaranteed salvation. Prove you love, and you'll have nothing to worry about.

Read Ephesians 2:1-10 and Titus 3:3-8 and Romans 3:21-5:11, and Galatians 2-3.
I also have a question for you. If you could earn your way to heaven, why did Jesus have to die? You cant earn your way to heaven, plain and simple.

[Luke4488]

try looking up James 2:17. know what youre talkin about b4 you speak

Try reading more than just one verse. The whole thing means that just because you say, "I believe in God" doesnt mean you are going to heaven. Even Satan and his demons know and believe there is a God. James 2:22 says that that your faith and actions must work together, meaning once you accept Christ, you have to start cleaning up your act and stop sinning. Although everyone that ever lived on this earth has sinned, except Christ himself. Accept Christ, and then show it, good deeds alone will not get you into heaven. Read James 2:14-26. Try not to pick one verse or part of a verse and manipulate it to what you want it to say. Read more and get the whole picture.

[Higher_Desire]

Where to begin, where to begin...


The what was the quote taken from Joseph smith that I posted where he claimed that all you guys are gods, and the why? Cos he wanted to be like God, and that is a sin, it got Lucifer thrown out of heaven.
Lucifer was not thrown out of heaven for wanting to be like God. He wanted to force people to do the right thing. That was the opposite of what God wanted. It is not a sin to try to be like God. However, it is a sin to want to be God. There's a difference. Acting in his ways (kindness, charity, love, etc.) is not a sin.

Yeh and it was wrong, and it was evil, and God made it very clear that He didnt want His people to be messing with that stuff.

BTW the Urim and thummin had no magic powers. They knew that.
They did not view it as a sin because it was a cultural practice. They didn't know it was wrong. They thought it healed. It was what was taught. I know the Urim and Thummum had no magic powers. As I said, they were the FOCAL point while praying. They would look at it like we bow our head, close our eyes, and either clasp our hands or fold our arms.

It's in Doctrine and Covenants.
Give me a reference. There's a lot of stuff in there.

All U know is what has been written? Have U read it all? Have U read the uncut stuff? The writings change, even your statues change. Ask your leaders about the offering of Cain statue, I bet they deny it.
The only stuff that has been cut has been cut by people who are acting out against the church and trying to play with the teachings, such as what you are doing now.

That comment on the clouds was lame. And heaven aint the planet Kolob. Theres nothing in the Bible that says that.
Where do you believe heaven is?

Listen, I know that U are an intelligent person. Your writings show this, but you need to research the history of your faith alot more.
No, you need to learn the history of why things that happened did happen.

[quote=Sincirr]LOVE? What of shedding someone's blood as pardon for sin? Journal Of Discourses Vol 4 says that shedding someone's blood is loving our neighbour as ourselves! This is the history of your faith!
"Greater love hath no man than this, than a man lay down his life for his friends." It does not say that the way to happiness is killing people.

The papyrus fragments that U now know as The Pearl of Great Price. It seems that Egyptologists totally disagree with his translations.
So what's the problem?

The similarities are in the rules taught by the authorities, that were not the Law, just extra rules and regulations added to the truth, kinda like U guys, yeh.
Laws have not been changed. Take modesty, for example. As a whole, it could mean many things. I don't think that saying today's clothing of tube tops and tons of piercings is immodest is a bad thing. Just like I said how times change, clothes do too. The world is not the same place it was 100 or even only 50 years ago. Just like how amendments to the constitution are changing America.

Your young religion's books cannot compare with the Bible, no matter what your professor says.
Parallels are everywhere in todays world tieing many religions together. Yes the Bible is the most inspirational book that is most widely accepted by the masses, and accepted by who aren't even religious, but what's wrong with more spiritual guidance?

I dont know what I'm talking about? Thats crazy. You are smart. use your brain! I'm worried about U! Research more, seek and U shall find.
Like I said, you know the "what" but not the "why." You can't look for doctrinal teachings in Anti-Mormon material. You can find falseness anywhere you look. You can even twist George Bush's words around and make him sound like the leader of Al Qieda.

I'll leave the quotes concerning faith without works, cos they will be answered.
OK.

The belief of many Gods, not just one God?
Which is correct? Lets have a look in your King James bible eh?
Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me.

Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me.

Isaiah 46:5
5To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?

You guys think that U will be god's right? It's not biblical dude!
Of course there is none as great as God and no person will ever be God. There is only one head-honcho God. We become LIKE him. We don't BECOME him.

Want more proof:

Isaiah 43:10
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Your doctrine contradicts the true word of God. If your god belives that anyone can be God, your god is a false god and not the God of the Bible. You are not Christian. Your Christ is not Jesus Christ, The Savior.
Again, when you die, you can become A God. not THE God. You will have the power. We will forever be SERVANTS of God. We will be able to do all things LIKE him and may be commanded to, but can't go galivanting off and doing whatever we want whenever we want. And what I wrote about the Monotheistic/Polythestic views was from BEFORE the Bible was written. There's no use trying to prove it with the Bible.
I AM Christian. My Christ is Jesus Christ, The Savior. Ruler of the world as spoken of in the Old and New Testaments. He was born of Mary and Joseph in a manger in Bethlahem. He taught the will of his father when he was on earth. He died on the cross so man could live again.

Here are my questions for you, Sincirr.
1.) How did the Bible come about?
2.) (for the third time) What religion do YOU believe in?


I also have a question for you. If you could earn your way to heaven, why did Jesus have to die? You cant earn your way to heaven, plain and simple.
Jesus died to open the gates to heaven. Only the most perfect could do it. No person who ever had, is, or will live on the earth was perfect enough to do such a great task.

Try reading more than just one verse. The whole thing means that just because you say, "I believe in God" doesnt mean you are going to heaven. Even Satan and his demons know and believe there is a God. James 2:22 says that that your faith and actions must work together, meaning once you accept Christ, you have to start cleaning up your act and stop sinning. Although everyone that ever lived on this earth has sinned, except Christ himself. Accept Christ, and then show it, good deeds alone will not get you into heaven. Read James 2:14-26. Try not to pick one verse or part of a verse and manipulate it to what you want it to say. Read more and get the whole picture.
I know. That's what I told you. You must prove your love. Just saying "I believe!" is not enough.


what hurts me the most. is that these guys Are Allright. That Got Strong Will Which I love. And its A Damn Shame That Satan Has Lead The Precious Souls To A False Mixed. Up Doctrine And Crap. But Im praying For theme Both. You have Put A lot of time sincirr your posts buddy thats Cool To God But let shead some. Light Which i may Be A bit Out of line. Even these Guys here Dan And H.D it sounds like there not listening At All. But Even They dont Say Here. Something Inside Of theme Is Coming Around. Its That Peace Inside us All. ...Only That Peace Can Lead U To The Truth my Friends. Its That High Magic Come on Come On!!! Go Here>>> St John Chapter.14>25>31..And Sometimes There Is A Wall Of Relgions That Was Brought on B/c Hey Thats Just The Way We Was Raised!!
No, I'm not listening, because I don't listen to false information. I am only expounding on what was said to give the WHOLE story. The shame is that people don't listen. Quit saying that we believe in magic! WE DON'T! You don't need to pray for us.


Jesus taught "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." No mortal person is perfect. You are casting stones at us for believing what we do, therefore, you must be perfect. Since you are perfect, you must be God. If you are indeed perfect, than continue throwing stones at me until I am dead. The Lord will judge as he sees fit. If he finds me worshiping him in my chosen manner a sin, then let him cast me down dead it in pit of eternal fire.


H=D :note:

[Luke4488]

Oh yes. Now its my turn for a long post. Sincirr, any help or pointing out something i missed would be very appreciated. I want to be as accurate and correct as possible. I dont want to misinform anyone.

Lucifer was not thrown out of heaven for wanting to be like God. He wanted to force people to do the right thing. That was the opposite of what God wanted. It is not a sin to try to be like God. However, it is a sin to want to be God. There's a difference. Acting in his ways (kindness, charity, love, etc.) is not a sin.

You cannot possibly believe that. Satan was not thrown out of heaven because he wanted to force people to do the right thing. Satan is evil, he wants you to do wrong, not good. He used to be an angel, but he blew it when he wanted to be like God. So God cast him out of heaven to rule hell. And no, Satan is not in hell right now. He is running around the earth getting unbelievers to do more sin and try to make believers lives miserable. But one day, after the final battle, God will win over Satan once and for all and Satan, his demons, and unbelievers will be locked in hell forever. Read Revelation.


Where do you believe heaven is?

Heaven is where you go when you die if you are saved. If heaven was on some planet, you could go there on some rocket ship, so what would the purpose of life on earth be if you could travel to heaven? There is only one way to heaven, through Christ.


"Greater love hath no man than this, than a man lay down his life for his friends." It does not say that the way to happiness is killing people?

If your Journal Of Discourses Vol 4 says that shedding someone's blood is loving our neighbour as ourselves I think that is absolutely stupid. It contradicts that verse that u used H-D.

So what's the problem

Problem is that he translated it his way instead of the right way. Isnt that so convenient?


Parallels are everywhere in todays world tieing many religions together. Yes the Bible is the most inspirational book that is most widely accepted by the masses, and accepted by who aren't even religious, but what's wrong with more spiritual guidance?

Well, the religious guidance has to be correct first of all. And you cant tie religions together. A one world religion is what will happen after the Rapture when we born-again Christians are taken away by Jesus himself up into heaven. If you are a true 'Christian' you wont compromise with the rest of the world, because what the Bible says doesnt change over time, humans change, but God and the Bible, they stay the same.


Like I said, you know the "what" but not the "why." You can't look for doctrinal teachings in Anti-Mormon material. You can find falseness anywhere you look. You can even twist George Bush's words around and make him sound like the leader of Al Qieda.

You cant find falseness in the Bible. But it seems like many things in the books the Mormons use almost always contradicts with the Bible. The Bible isnt false, so anything that contradicts it must be.


Of course there is none as great as God and no person will ever be God. There is only one head-honcho God. We become LIKE him. We don't BECOME him.

You are right about one thing, God is great and no person will ever be God. We dont become Him, nor do we become like Him. In heaven we will reign with Him as Kings. But we will never become gods. NEVER!

Again, when you die, you can become A God. not THE God. You will have the power. We will forever be SERVANTS of God. We will be able to do all things LIKE him and may be commanded to, but can't go galivanting off and doing whatever we want whenever we want. And what I wrote about the Monotheistic/Polythestic views was from BEFORE the Bible was written. There's no use trying to prove it with the Bible.
I AM Christian. My Christ is Jesus Christ, The Savior. Ruler of the world as spoken of in the Old and New Testaments. He was born of Mary and Joseph in a manger in Bethlahem. He taught the will of his father when he was on earth. He died on the cross so man could live again.

Again we will reign with God in heaven forever when we get there. But we will NOT become gods.

[Sincirr]

Phew! Thanks for that. I really didnt wanna have to answer all that again. Good Job. I also like baseball and playing guitar! Cool! What team U go 4? U can pm me if its the Yankees and U R scared, LOL!

I will also add that H-D's words, "You cant look for doctrinal teaching in anti-mormon material" is unfair, since I have been quoting heaps of mormon teachings.

Also H-D, I have a reference for the info on Doctrine and Covenants, but I would rather U read the stuff and know more about your faith. Please look into teaching material from Brigham Young's books, as they do contain stuff about getting your own planet, as do other books still used.

MORMONS: Listen, please. I know I've made U mad, and you hold your teaching's dear, but there are some things that you wont know untill you are imbedded in your religion far enough. You wont be told, and U will go about your faith believing that U know all there is to it, but IM SERIOUS! This stuff is true. The planet stuff is true! I know you will never believe me, or take the word of someone that has left your faith because heck, U aren't even sposed to speak to them, but I'm telling U, this guy that I know was up in the ranks! He knows what was going on!

Also, dont be afraid of non-mormon's researching your stuff and their opinions; Don't heed the warnings from other members, Cos I know that no matter what these non-Christian researchers etc. say about the bible, it's based on fact, and I'm not afraid of what they find. Some I have found confronting, but dont be afraid to research. U should be free to do so.

Also, if U decide to leave your church, the declaration that ends with, "...and I cut of all ties from Jesus Christ" is a lie. Cos the true Jesus would be waiting with His arms open.

You may hate my guts, but I wont allow U guys to work your way up and it be too late. Demand the truth from your leaders, dont be intimidated by them! Ask them about what I have said. Hate me but please do it.

[Sincirr]

Also Creedsister, thank U 4 your post. I was soooo ready to read it. And I appreciate your comments, and others on this board.

[Sincirr]

Oh! And by the way, I'm female.

Please go back a page and read my comments. It's important.

[creedsister]

Oh! And by the way, I'm female.

Please go back a page and read my comments. It's important. I Know

[Higher_Desire]

Oh yes. Now its my turn for a long post. Sincirr, any help or pointing out something i missed would be very appreciated. I want to be as accurate and correct as possible. I dont want to misinform anyone.

You cannot possibly believe that. Satan was not thrown out of heaven because he wanted to force people to do the right thing. Satan is evil, he wants you to do wrong, not good. He used to be an angel, but he blew it when he wanted to be like God. So God cast him out of heaven to rule hell. And no, Satan is not in hell right now. He is running around the earth getting unbelievers to do more sin and try to make believers lives miserable. But one day, after the final battle, God will win over Satan once and for all and Satan, his demons, and unbelievers will be locked in hell forever. Read Revelation.
You are contradicting yourself in your own post. You say Satan is evil (which, yes, he is) and then you say he wanted to be like God. God is not evil. He is not on earth. He has evil sprits that come to earth to convince people to do wrong, just like God has people here to teach about him. If Satan is on earth, God is too.

Heaven is where you go when you die if you are saved. If heaven was on some planet, you could go there on some rocket ship, so what would the purpose of life on earth be if you could travel to heaven? There is only one way to heaven, through Christ.
So WHERE is it. By sounds of things, it is just a thought that people have. If it is indeed a place, you can go there. Also, we don't know WHERE Kolob is. There are many galaxies in this universe. Astronomers have proved it. We can't even get out of a small area of our own galaxy.

If your Journal Of Discourses Vol 4 says that shedding someone's blood is loving our neighbour as ourselves I think that is absolutely stupid. It contradicts that verse that u used H-D.
If it does indeed say that, I don't know because I have not seen it. However, if it says that, it was taken out of context or only a part of a sentence.

Well, the religious guidance has to be correct first of all. And you cant tie religions together. A one world religion is what will happen after the Rapture when we born-again Christians are taken away by Jesus himself up into heaven. If you are a true 'Christian' you wont compromise with the rest of the world, because what the Bible says doesnt change over time, humans change, but God and the Bible, they stay the same.
If religions can't be tied together, or have similarities, every sect of Christianity is therefore completly different, as from Catholics, Muslims, Jews, and all others which are Monothestic are all based on different foundings.

You cant find falseness in the Bible. But it seems like many things in the books the Mormons use almost always contradicts with the Bible. The Bible isnt false, so anything that contradicts it must be.
What about when God appeared to Moses after being let out of bondage in Egypt, and then on the next page where it says that no man has seen God?

You are right about one thing, God is great and no person will ever be God. We dont become Him, nor do we become like Him. In heaven we will reign with Him as Kings. But we will never become gods. NEVER!

Again we will reign with God in heaven forever when we get there. But we will NOT become gods.
BIBLICAL TEACHING OF MEN BECOMING LIKE GOD: Here is a writing I found by W. John Walsh. No, he is not the John Walse that is the host of America's Most Wanted. PLEASE READ. This is completly written by him.

First, you need to read the rest of Genesis chapter 3. In Genesis 3:22, it states "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil... ". Therefore, as the Lord himself says, Satan told Eve a half-truth. The Adversary lied when he said that Eve would "not surely die", but he told the truth when he said that she would become "like God, knowing good and evil."

To spread the false notion that Latter-day Saints do not show proper reverence towards the Godhead, anti-Mormons often tell people that Latter-day Saints believe that they will become co-equal, or on the same level, with God and no longer worship him. This misrepresentation is a twisting of an LDS doctrine called exaltation, a doctrine which the Bible clearly teaches.

Latter-day Saints believe our Heavenly Father has given us this mortal life to become more like him. Those who are true and faithful in all things will sit in the throne of Christ. (Rev 3:21) They will have the name of God the Father placed upon them (Rev 14:1) We believe that they shall be "heirs of God, and joint-heirs of Christ" (Rom 8:17). What shall the faithful inherit? ALL THINGS according to scripture (Heb 1:2) (See Heirs of God and Joint-Heirs with Christ)

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48)

"For I [am] the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I [am] holy." (Leviticus 11:45)

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." (1 John 3:2)

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12)

We call anyone who sits in the throne of God, has God's name and attributes, and who has inherited all things (i.e. - power, dominion, knowledge) from God-----a god.

Hence the scripture, "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods....I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalms (82:1,6)

While we believe that the faithful will enjoy a life similar to our Heavenly Father, we also believe we will still be subject to and worship the God of Heaven, which is represented as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Furthermore, while we will be "gods, even the sons of God" (D&C 76:58), we will never be at the same level as them or stop worshipping them, but we will be like them and enjoy a quality of life similar to theirs.


SINCIRR - I didn't say you were quoting anti-Mormon material. I said you can't learn the fulness of Mormonism through them. Just like you can't become a master of Physics by studying Algebra.

Also, I'm not mad nor do I hate your guts. I am only trying to explain more in-depth about what we believe. I am not afraid to research the teaching of my church, and I actually do it. So far, I have been able to find all answers I needed.

Sorry about not knowing you were a girl. When I first joined the boards, not many people realized I was a guy.

You still have not answerd my question. What religion do YOU believe in? I'm just curious.


H-D :tremonti:

[Higher_Desire]

Oh yeah. And here's something I dug up about that whole "Mormon in Chineese means Gates of Hell" thing...

by Stephen R. Gibson

This gross misrepresentation can be heard in The God Makers movie and from anti-Mormons parroting the falsehood which it foisted upon them. Robert W. Blair, professor of linguistics at Brigham Young University, is one of several scholars who have answered that charge. He explained that in the Chinese language foreign words are converted into characters which, when read aloud, more or less approximate the sound of the foreign word. In the case of "Mormon", it is represented by two characters that closely approximate the English pronunciation of "Mormon."

The second symbol used for "Mormon" would mean "gate", "door", or "way" in the pure Chinese. Professor Blair said the same symbol would be used to represent the second syllable of the names Simon, Truman, Naumann, Gohrmun, or Seimen. The first symbol of "Mormon" could have been written with one or two syllables; depending upon the desired emphasis for the "R" sound. The two-syllable choice would have placed more of an accent on the R: "Mo(are)Men." Instead, the Church selected a symbol that reflects an "r-less accent" or "Mo-Men" sound.

In selecting a Chinese character to represent the first syllable of Mo-Men, almost any one of 30 Chinese characters that are read as "Mo" could have been chosen. Let us quote from Professor Blair's research:

The symbol that was actually selected is the character specifically used to represent a like sounding syllable in foreign words. When not used to render a meaningless syllable of a foreign word, this character suggests "smoothing something with the hand." (If one were to take this literal rendering seriously, one could explain "Mo-Men" as meaning "hand-smoothed Gateway, " or "way smoothed by hands." Further, interpolation might suggest that it was the bleeding hands of Jesus Christ that smoothed the way to Salvation!)

What the crafty enemies of the Restored Church have done is to pervert the facts in such a way that only those knowing Chinese can see their fraud. From the thirty characters which have been reading Mo, they substituted the one which means "devil" (and which is not the one used by the Church) and then propagated the lie that in Chinese the word "Mormon" means "Devil's gate," or "Gateway to Hell."


H-D :tremonti:

[SleeplessAngel]

Having been baptized mormon, and learning the foundations of "religion" from that church. I have to agree with everyone who's disagreeing with the belief system of the Mormon religion. Did you know that Joseph Smith was actually a drunk who had been tarred(sp?) and feathered? Yeah, he was. There's an entire book about his life, his REAL life. Not the life that this lovely church would beg for you to believe. Did you also know that the Mormons have 3 football fields worth of Corn fields some where, because that's where the "good Mormon's" are going to go when Jesus returns to earth because he's going to go there. Just a few other facts you can add into your debate. The one about the corn fields, that came straight from seminary..so..there's no way I could prove it to you but I can try to find the book and link you to it.

[Higher_Desire]

Having been baptized mormon, and learning the foundations of "religion" from that church. I have to agree with everyone who's disagreeing with the belief system of the Mormon religion. Did you know that Joseph Smith was actually a drunk who had been tarred(sp?) and feathered? Yeah, he was. There's an entire book about his life, his REAL life. Not the life that this lovely church would beg for you to believe. Did you also know that the Mormons have 3 football fields worth of Corn fields some where, because that's where the "good Mormon's" are going to go when Jesus returns to earth because he's going to go there. Just a few other facts you can add into your debate. The one about the corn fields, that came straight from seminary..so..there's no way I could prove it to you but I can try to find the book and link you to it.
Joseph Smith was not a "drunk" per sé, although, yes he did drink alcohol, smoke, and chew tobbacco, HOWEVER that was before the revelation of the Word of Wisdom. After that was revealed, he quit. Also, there have been accounts written BEFORE the revelation of the Word of Wisdom that Emma tried to get him to quit, though he didn't. Once again, you must understand that this was a cultural custom at that time. Tobbacco and Alcohol were widely used by many people. Like I have said how things change over the years, alcohol and tobbacco have changed in the way they are injested into the body.

The corn-fields... yes they exist. There are also wheat-fields, and fields of other grains. They are owned by the church's welfare system and that food that is harvested is sold as grains in mass, and are part of the whole idea have having provisions that will last a long time should your family need them in times of dissaster. Jesus is not going to land in a corn-field in a UFO like some alien, as you seem to have picked up that little factoid. Your seminary teacher had what is called a personal opinion, or a mistake.

Just out of curiosity, do you believe that the movie "The Godmakers" is an amazing documentary? :wtf: I have never heard of Jesus coming back in a corn-field. That just ain't going to happen.

As your post seems to indicate, you were baptized at a fairly early age, learned the customs of the church, yet didn't learn of how things came about, or to say, the basis of those customs, and then were easily swayed by either misunderstaing teachings or hearing non-doctrinal teachings, and have solidified your ideas in stone, possibly due to hostility towards the church. Just a guess.


H-D :tremonti:

[Luke4488]

Like Sincirr, Im not here to peeve people off. Just trying to help out and show u what I believe and y I believe it. I dont have all the answers, but i will try.

You are contradicting yourself in your own post. You say Satan is evil (which, yes, he is) and then you say he wanted to be like God. God is not evil. He is not on earth. He has evil sprits that come to earth to convince people to do wrong, just like God has people here to teach about him. If Satan is on earth, God is too.

I apologize, I guess I didnt explain myself very well. What I meant was that Satan wanted to rule heaven like God, not do good things. He wanted power.

So WHERE is it. By sounds of things, it is just a thought that people have. If it is indeed a place, you can go there. Also, we don't know WHERE Kolob is. There are many galaxies in this universe. Astronomers have proved it. We can't even get out of a small area of our own galaxy.

No one knows exactly where heaven is. Im not positive, but I really doubt that it is on some planet, because, like I said, Jesus says that no one gets to the Father, except through Him. So if it was on another planet we could travel there without having to believe in Jesus, although I do understand that we cant get out of our little galaxy. But the possibility remains. Also, after the Rapture and the Tribulation and Armageddon, God is going to create a new heaven and a new earth where God's people will spend eternity

If religions can't be tied together, or have similarities, every sect of Christianity is therefore completly different, as from Catholics, Muslims, Jews, and all others which are Monothestic are all based on different foundings.

They do have some similarities but they cannot be tied together into one religion, there would have to be too many compromises. God doesnt compromise.

What about when God appeared to Moses after being let out of bondage in Egypt, and then on the next page where it says that no man has seen God?

He didnt see God, he saw the Will of God, and it appeared to him in the form of a burning bush.

BIBLICAL TEACHING OF MEN BECOMING LIKE GOD: Here is a writing I found by W. John Walsh. No, he is not the John Walse that is the host of America's Most Wanted. PLEASE READ. This is completly written by him.

First, you need to read the rest of Genesis chapter 3. In Genesis 3:22, it states "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil... ". Therefore, as the Lord himself says, Satan told Eve a half-truth. The Adversary lied when he said that Eve would "not surely die", but he told the truth when he said that she would become "like God, knowing good and evil."

To spread the false notion that Latter-day Saints do not show proper reverence towards the Godhead, anti-Mormons often tell people that Latter-day Saints believe that they will become co-equal, or on the same level, with God and no longer worship him. This misrepresentation is a twisting of an LDS doctrine called exaltation, a doctrine which the Bible clearly teaches.

Latter-day Saints believe our Heavenly Father has given us this mortal life to become more like him. Those who are true and faithful in all things will sit in the throne of Christ. (Rev 3:21) They will have the name of God the Father placed upon them (Rev 14:1) We believe that they shall be "heirs of God, and joint-heirs of Christ" (Rom 8:17). What shall the faithful inherit? ALL THINGS according to scripture (Heb 1:2) (See Heirs of God and Joint-Heirs with Christ)

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48)

"For I [am] the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I [am] holy." (Leviticus 11:45)

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." (1 John 3:2)

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12)

We call anyone who sits in the throne of God, has God's name and attributes, and who has inherited all things (i.e. - power, dominion, knowledge) from God-----a god.

Hence the scripture, "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods....I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalms (82:1,6)

While we believe that the faithful will enjoy a life similar to our Heavenly Father, we also believe we will still be subject to and worship the God of Heaven, which is represented as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Furthermore, while we will be "gods, even the sons of God" (D&C 76:58), we will never be at the same level as them or stop worshipping them, but we will be like them and enjoy a quality of life similar to theirs.

but if you take notice, many of those verses were cut short and if it wasnt cut off it was only one verse, plus, none of them say we will become gods, if God wanted it to be possible to become gods, wouldnt he have wrote that in the Bible very clearly, so there would be no confusion? Those verses dont mean we will become gods, you have to read more than a verse or two, PLEASE. W. John Walsh didnt read the whole context to get the whole picture. My sunday school teacher has a good phrase for people who take things out of context. It is kind of funny, it goes something like this: If u want to take things out of context and try to make the Bible say what u want it to say, try this, the Bible says 'and then Judas hung himself' and later in the Bible it says 'go and do likewise'. Please dont take that literal, and please dont take offense, its just a humorous example of what people do.

[RMadd]

whew! this all's a lot of reading, and now i'm too worn out to weigh in on sincirr and luke's behalf.

[creedsister]

Proverbs Ch 2~~~Discretion Shall Preserve Thee. Understanding Shall Keep thee To deliver Thee From the Way Of The Evil Man From The Man That Speakeath Froward Things Happy Is The Man That Findeth Wisdom And The Man That Gets Understanding} Once U Find Wisdom U Wont Sell Her At any price And Once U know The Truth U Will No Longer Search For It Anywere Else You Will need not Want Too~~For the merchindise Of it is better than of silver And The Gain Therof Better Than Gold She Is More precious Than Rubies And All Things You Can Desire GOD LIKE DUDES!!!!!! Are Not To Be Compared Unto Her!!! WHOSO LOVETH INSTRUCTION loveth knowlege BUT HE THAT REPROOF IS BRUTISH The Fear Of The Lord Is Is The Beginning Of Knowlege BUT FOOLS DESPISE WISDOM AND INSTRUCTION]

[creedsister]

That It might Be Fulfilled Which Was Spoken By The Prophet Saying I will Open My Mouth In parables I Will Utter things Which Have Been Kept Secret From The Foudatin Of The World....St matt~~13.35

[creedsister]

Also Creedsister, thank U 4 your post. I was soooo ready to read it. And I appreciate your comments, and others on this board. Your Welcome Sincirr Please Forgive Im on A roll~~~BY THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD THE ALPHEA AND OMEGA LORD OF LORD AND KING OF KINGS !!!! jesus is lord !!! THAT ye all speak the same thing . and there. Be No divisons!! Amoung You but that ye Be perfectly joined together In the same mind and same jugemeant 1 Cor.10........ :bee: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam:

[Sincirr]

whew! this all's a lot of reading, and now i'm too worn out to weigh in on sincirr and luke's behalf.
That's okay. I can't either really. I'm just scared for the mormons on this board, cos they have no idea what they are in for.

This verse, H-D
"God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods....I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalms (82:1,6)

The hebrew word that is used can also mean a sort of magistrate, just as the word Lord can mean a teacher, rabbi.

You are sold out for a cult and U have no idea. And U have no Idea what's coming. They are twising the truth, and I'm concerned for you. I have always watched you on these boards, I think it was just before you put the mariner's avie up, and checked out what U say, but I'm surprised at you now.

What have your authorities said about having your own planet? Ask them, and post what they have said. Bearing in mind, that some of the books still used for teaching, have information concerning this fact, and if they deny it, I will start posting the references. Most people would leave the church if they truly knew what was going on.

My religion. I dont believe in religion, it is used for controlling people.

My church? I think U are asking that so U can tear it apart when I tell you. But ok, I am basically a Christian yes. I have studied 4 semesters of old and new testament, and I attend a church that is a charismatic one. Probably one of the best I have found when it comes to following the Bible and not making up doctrine that is unbiblical. I can't say that I truly represent my whole church as a person, but I truly respect their view on the scriptures and the way they conduct themselves.

You can take your stabs at my belief system as much as u want. I dont really defend them, I defend God's cause.

The god makers, though I have never seen it, has some accounts of people that have left the mormon church. Have U seen it? What did U think?

Sleeplessangel: Hi there. :)
Before U left the LDS, what was your stand on non-mormon's opinions of your beliefs at the time?

[Higher_Desire]

It seems as though no new arguments are coming up, so why don't we all just agree to disagree? You guys believe one way, we believe another, other people believe other things still. The team of creedsister, Sincirr, SleeplessAngel, and Luke4488 and the team of Facelessman and Higher_Desire will never reach an agreement. Why don't we lay this to rest? Mormonism is not perfect, and doesn't claim to be, but it works for me. It's not what everyone chooses.

Article of Faith #11: We claim the privledge of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own contience, and allow all men, the same privledge, let them worship how, where, and what they may.

And, yes, I have seen the Godmakers. It is full of partial truths, that when examined further, are false understandings. The ex-mormons that were in it did not have a firm grasp on the teachings of the church, and were swayed. If I truly am headed into a cultlife... well then, it's my choice, but I believe that God loves me. He sent his son to die on the cross for my sins. Jesus Christ rose from the dead to bring about the oppertunity for us all to live again. What I do, I do through my own free-will. I am not ashamed. As it has been noted by President Gordon B. Hinckly: "If the Prophet Joseph did indeed decieve the world and all teaching of the Book of Mormon are false, then it is the grandest lie that has ever been told on any scale, eluding over 12 million people in just over 150 years. If the Book of Mormon is false, this whole church is a fraud. But if it is a true revelation, than this is the greatest work that has ever taken place in this or any dispensation."


H-D :tremonti:

[creedsister]

My religion I dont Believe In Religion IT IS USED FOR CONTROLLING PEOPLE. :jam: ''''' YOU can take your stabs at my belief system As much As you Want I dont really Defend Theme I defend Gods Cause :jam: .......................WHooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[facelessman]

It seems as though no new arguments are coming up, so why don't we all just agree to disagree? You guys believe one way, we believe another, other people believe other things still. The team of creedsister, Sincirr, SleeplessAngel, and Luke4488 and the team of Facelessman and Higher_Desire will never reach an agreement. Why don't we lay this to rest? Mormonism is not perfect, and doesn't claim to be, but it works for me. It's not what everyone chooses.

Article of Faith #11: We claim the privledge of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own contience, and allow all men, the same privledge, let them worship how, where, and what they may.

And, yes, I have seen the Godmakers. It is full of partial truths, that when examined further, are false understandings. The ex-mormons that were in it did not have a firm grasp on the teachings of the church, and were swayed. If I truly am headed into a cultlife... well then, it's my choice, but I believe that God loves me. He sent his son to die on the cross for my sins. Jesus Christ rose from the dead to bring about the oppertunity for us all to live again. What I do, I do through my own free-will. I am not ashamed. As it has been noted by President Gordon B. Hinckly: "If the Prophet Joseph did indeed decieve the world and all teaching of the Book of Mormon are false, then it is the grandest lie that has ever been told on any scale, eluding over 12 million people in just over 150 years. If the Book of Mormon is false, this whole church is a fraud. But if it is a true revelation, than this is the greatest work that has ever taken place in this or any dispensation."


H-D :tremonti:
DITTO!
I may not agree with what you say, but i will defend, to the death, your right to say it.
so lets stop all this crap b4 we end up at everyones throats. it was very interesting, though.

[creedsister]

It seems as though no new arguments are coming up, so why don't we all just agree to disagree? You guys believe one way, we believe another, other people believe other things still. The team of creedsister, Sincirr, SleeplessAngel, and Luke4488 and the team of Facelessman and Higher_Desire will never reach an agreement. Why don't we lay this to rest? Mormonism is not perfect, and doesn't claim to be, but it works for me. It's not what everyone chooses.

Article of Faith #11: We claim the privledge of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own contience, and allow all men, the same privledge, let them worship how, where, and what they may.

And, yes, I have seen the Godmakers. It is full of partial truths, that when examined further, are false understandings. The ex-mormons that were in it did not have a firm grasp on the teachings of the church, and were swayed. If I truly am headed into a cultlife... well then, it's my choice, but I believe that God loves me. He sent his son to die on the cross for my sins. Jesus Christ rose from the dead to bring about the oppertunity for us all to live again. What I do, I do through my own free-will. I am not ashamed. As it has been noted by President Gordon B. Hinckly: "If the Prophet Joseph did indeed decieve the world and all teaching of the Book of Mormon are false, then it is the grandest lie that has ever been told on any scale, eluding over 12 million people in just over 150 years. If the Book of Mormon is false, this whole church is a fraud. But if it is a true revelation, than this is the greatest work that has ever taken place in this or any dispensation." HEY Thats All Fine By me...But neverthless I got this fire in me that wont shut up And i would not Have Any of my brothers Or sisters Go Estray Or lead the wrong Way Its Not me really because I could careless!!! but He That Dwells In me My Lord jesus Christ Is Mayby Trying To Tell U guys something What I do I Do out Of Love. And I just Pray That There Your Eyes will be brought In to the light!! I go In peace now And I pray U find the truth Dont Say Old creed Sis Didnt Tell U ahead of Time!!


H-D :tremonti: :listen: :listen: :listen: :listen:

[Higher_Desire]

HEY Thats All Fine By me...But neverthless I got this fire in me that wont shut up And i would not Have Any of my brothers Or sisters Go Estray Or lead the wrong Way Its Not me really because I could careless!!! but He That Dwells In me My Lord jesus Christ Is Mayby Trying To Tell U guys something What I do I Do out Of Love. And I just Pray That There Your Eyes will be brought In to the light!! I go In peace now And I pray U find the truth Dont Say Old creed Sis Didnt Tell U ahead of Time!!
OK. So we're agreed.

Oh, and there was a slight typing error in my last post it should be "dictates of our own conscience. Not contience like I put before. Maybe I shouldn't spell phenetically.


H-D :tremonti:

[RMadd]

It seems as though no new arguments are coming up, so why don't we all just agree to disagree?
I'll drink to that! :cheers:

[Sincirr]

hahaha.

OK, I'll try my hardest to stop, especially since U seemed to point out that U R out-numbered, but I still wanna hear what your leaders say concerning the teaching on getting your own planet. I mean your bishops and the like. Don't let them tippy-toe around it either.

Just remember y'all:
A man is not justified by observing the law,
but by faith in Jesus Christ
that we may be justified by faith in Christ
and not by observing the law,
because by observing the law, no-one will be justified.
Galatians 2:16

And:

Philippians 2:5-11
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death--
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.


Also JOHN 3:16
16"For God so loved the world that He
gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish
but have eternal life.



Hosea 11:9

[Sincirr]

Crap Where did all those posts come from!
Ok, I'll let it slide, though I do have alot more questions.

[facelessman]

i dont mind answering questions if you guys dont start arguing with us.

[Sincirr]

I found a really good site, http://www.irr.org/mit/ so i can find out there.

[facelessman]

how about you go to lds.org or something to get your questions answered?

[Higher_Desire]

I found a really good site, http://www.irr.org/mit/ so i can find out there.
Dear God please don't use that site! I can tell by reading the first page it's made by non-mormons, anti-mormons, and former-mormons.

Use this site instead: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/. It is not owned by the church or any of the church's offiliates, but it is owned by members (a husband and wife) who have looked extensively into the background of the church. It has answers to many question and states our beliefs with proof to back it up. The church's official site www.lds.org is good too. There are links in there to TONS of doctrine, including the church magazines for somewhere around 30 years. You can read it all for free online.

I don't mind answering your questions, and feel free to PM me anytime. But, as facelessman said, you can state your side and your question, as long as you don't start arguing. I'll do my best to answer your questions.

I will look into that planet thing. Also, no hard feelings. As long as we both accept that we believe different things.


H-D :tremonti:

[facelessman]

lightplanet.com/mormons is awesome.

[WeatheredWoman]

Let us quote from Professor Blair's research:

The symbol that was actually selected is the character specifically used to represent a like sounding syllable in foreign words. When not used to render a meaningless syllable of a foreign word, this character suggests "smoothing something with the hand." (If one were to take this literal rendering seriously, one could explain "Mo-Men" as meaning "hand-smoothed Gateway, " or "way smoothed by hands." Further, interpolation might suggest that it was the bleeding hands of Jesus Christ that smoothed the way to Salvation!

Let me quote JOSEPH SMITH:


To the EDITOR of the TIMES & SEASONS. SIR: Through the medium of your paper, I wish to correct an error among men that profess to be learned, liberal and wise; and I do it the more cheerfully, because I hope sober-thinking and sound-reasoning people will sooner listen to the voice of truth, than be led astray by the vain pretentions of the self-wise. The error I speak of, is the definition of the word "MORMON". It has been stated that this word was derived from the Greek word mormo. This is not the case. There was no Greek or Latin upon the plates from which I, through the grace of God, translated the Book of Mormon. Let the language of that book speak for itself. On the 523d page, of the fourth edition, it reads:

"And now behold we have written this record according to our knowledge in the characters, which are called among us the Reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech; and if our plates had been sufficiently large, we should have written in Hebrew: but the Hebrew hath been altered by us, also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold ye would have had no imperfection in our record, but the Lord knoweth our language; therefore be hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof."

Here then the subject is put to silence, for "none other people knoweth our language", therefore the Lord, and not man, had to interpret, after the people were all dead. And, as Paul said, "the world by wisdom know not God", so the world by speculation are destitute of revelation; and as God in his superior wisdom, has always given his saints, wherever he had any on the earth, the same spirit, and that spirit, as John says, is the true spirit of prophesy, which is the testimony of Jesus, I may safely say that the word MORMON stands independent of the learning and wisdom of this generation.

Before I give a definition, however, to the word, let me say that the Bible in its widest sense, means good ; for the Saviour says according to the gospel of John, "I am the good shepherd"; and it will not be beyond the common use of terms, to say that good is among the most important in use, and though known by various names in different languages, still its meaning is the same and is ever in opposition to bad. We say from the Saxon, good; the Dane, god; the Goth, goda; the German, gut; the Dutch, goed; the Latin, bonus; the Greek, kalos; the Hebrew, tob; and the Egyptian, mon. Hence, with the addition of more, or the contaction, mor, we have the word MORMON; which means, literally, more good.

Yours,
JOSEPH SMITH

Times and Seasons, vol. 4, p. 194 (1843)

[facelessman]

so whats your point? if you havent noticed we stopped all this crap

[WeatheredWoman]

so whats your point? if you havent noticed we stopped all this crap

This post was directed to H_D Face!! And according to the "we stopped all this crap"-thingy : FREEDOM OF SPEECH my boy!!! Never heard of???

[WeatheredWoman]

My religion. I dont believe in religion, it is used for controlling people.

My thoughts exactly. :thumbsup:

And Faceless? I know that we will agree to disagree but what's wrong with venting??? No one needs to tell this woman to kind of "shut up" in other words! Didn't mean to scare you of though... :(

[Higher_Desire]

Let me quote JOSEPH SMITH:


To the EDITOR of the TIMES & SEASONS. SIR: Through the medium of your paper, I wish to correct an error among men that profess to be learned, liberal and wise; and I do it the more cheerfully, because I hope sober-thinking and sound-reasoning people will sooner listen to the voice of truth, than be led astray by the vain pretentions of the self-wise. The error I speak of, is the definition of the word "MORMON". It has been stated that this word was derived from the Greek word mormo. This is not the case. There was no Greek or Latin upon the plates from which I, through the grace of God, translated the Book of Mormon. Let the language of that book speak for itself. On the 523d page, of the fourth edition, it reads:

"And now behold we have written this record according to our knowledge in the characters, which are called among us the Reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech; and if our plates had been sufficiently large, we should have written in Hebrew: but the Hebrew hath been altered by us, also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold ye would have had no imperfection in our record, but the Lord knoweth our language; therefore be hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof."

Here then the subject is put to silence, for "none other people knoweth our language", therefore the Lord, and not man, had to interpret, after the people were all dead. And, as Paul said, "the world by wisdom know not God", so the world by speculation are destitute of revelation; and as God in his superior wisdom, has always given his saints, wherever he had any on the earth, the same spirit, and that spirit, as John says, is the true spirit of prophesy, which is the testimony of Jesus, I may safely say that the word MORMON stands independent of the learning and wisdom of this generation.

Before I give a definition, however, to the word, let me say that the Bible in its widest sense, means good ; for the Saviour says according to the gospel of John, "I am the good shepherd"; and it will not be beyond the common use of terms, to say that good is among the most important in use, and though known by various names in different languages, still its meaning is the same and is ever in opposition to bad. We say from the Saxon, good; the Dane, god; the Goth, goda; the German, gut; the Dutch, goed; the Latin, bonus; the Greek, kalos; the Hebrew, tob; and the Egyptian, mon. Hence, with the addition of more, or the contaction, mor, we have the word MORMON; which means, literally, more good.

Yours,
JOSEPH SMITH

Times and Seasons, vol. 4, p. 194 (1843)
I know what mormon means. The post you took that quote from of Professor Blair's research (if you read the heading on it) as about the word "Mormon" meaning Gates of Hell and other dirivites in Chineese. It was about how that meaning came about from english to chineese. Not what the word litterally means in english.


H-D :stapp:

[WeatheredWoman]

I know what mormon means. The post you took that quote from of Professor Blair's research (if you read the heading on it) as about the word "Mormon" meaning Gates of Hell and other dirivites in Chineese. It was about how that meaning came about from english to chineese. Not what the word litterally means in english.

Ah! My misinterpretation... you're right on that one H_D !!! Sorry, I apologize... I've had another read of that post!

[creedsister]

My thoughts exactly. :thumbsup:

And Faceless? I know that we will agree to disagree but what's wrong with venting??? No one needs to tell this woman to kind of "shut up" in other words! Didn't mean to scare you of though... :(
yes again its used for controling people I thank God IM FREE!!!

[facelessman]

This post was directed to H_D Face!! And according to the "we stopped all this crap"-thingy : FREEDOM OF SPEECH my boy!!! Never heard of???
i never told you to shut up. i was just letting you know that we stopped with all that, so chill

[facelessman]

my religion doesnt control me...i still have my free agency, but i choose to follow the teaching of it. and so far its goin good for me.

[WeatheredWoman]

I love you Faceless :D

[facelessman]

;)

[WeatheredWoman]

:banana:

[creedsister]

my religion doesnt control me...i still have my free agency, but i choose to follow the teaching of it. and so far its goin good for me. ;[well good for you aside from that i think ur alright]
But u really need to give the bible a chance bro!!! ok i will shut up i promise

[WeatheredWoman]

Ta!!!! You have to remove some of your pm's 'cause your pm-box is full! No one can send you a pm anymore :crying:

You will see this... I'm sure :)

[Higher_Desire]

;[well good for you aside from that i think ur alright]
But u really need to give the bible a chance bro!!! ok i will shut up i promise
We do love the Bible. It and the BoM are used as companions in our church. Remember all... if you ever have any questions (as opposed to accusations), feel free to ask me anytime. PM would be best. or consult www.lightplanet.com/mormons. It is not owned or operated by the church, but it is an extremely good site.


H-D :stapp:

[creedsister]

Ta!!!! You have to remove some of your pm's 'cause your pm-box is full! No one can send you a pm anymore :crying:

You will see this... I'm sure :) Hey calm down i got right On it!!! At least u knew Were to find me stef this is A total Embarasament :( For Me i never delite my Pms Sorry I need The Chair

[creedsister]

We do love the Bible. It and the BoM are used as companions in our church. Remember all... if you ever have any questions (as opposed to accusations), feel free to ask me anytime. PM would be best. or consult www.lightplanet.com/mormons. It is not owned or operated by the church, but it is an extremely good site.


H-D :stapp: Thank you No hard feelings :) Higher Desire I Will Say This then i will shut up [Im praying For ya} And You to Dan} jesus Loves U both Very Much Regardless Of Religions Why Because He first Loved U And He chose You You Did Not Choose Him!! I will Shut Up Now!!! Peace be whicha you
[

[SleeplessAngel]

Just out of curiosity, do you believe that the movie "The Godmakers" is an amazing documentary? :wtf: I have never heard of Jesus coming back in a corn-field. That just ain't going to happen.

As your post seems to indicate, you were baptized at a fairly early age, learned the customs of the church, yet didn't learn of how things came about, or to say, the basis of those customs, and then were easily swayed by either misunderstaing teachings or hearing non-doctrinal teachings, and have solidified your ideas in stone, possibly due to hostility towards the church. Just a guess.


H-D :tremonti:

First of all I've never even heard of that Documentary. Thanks. Second of all, I was raised as a Mormon, till I realised it was a bunch of crap, of course that's my opinion. I was in that church until I was 17. The best thing I ever did for myself was to quit attending. You have your opinion, I was just adding mine. You are obviously happy with your religion. I happen to believe it a form of a cult. Two seperate opinions, but that's ok. I don't have hostility towards the church, but if you can PROVE to me in stone, that all of their prophets, and such are REAL, then I'll think about changing my opinions. Oh, and I don't usually misunderstand things, I'm one of those annoying people who ask a million questions until the meaning is crystal clear.

[Sincirr]

The symbol that was actually selected is the character specifically used to represent a like sounding syllable in foreign words. When not used to render a meaningless syllable of a foreign word, this character suggests "smoothing something with the hand." (If one were to take this literal rendering seriously, one could explain "Mo-Men" as meaning "hand-smoothed Gateway, " or "way smoothed by hands." Further, interpolation might suggest that it was the bleeding hands of Jesus Christ that smoothed the way to Salvation!)

What the crafty enemies of the Restored Church have done is to pervert the facts in such a way that only those knowing Chinese can see their fraud. From the thirty characters which have been reading Mo, they substituted the one which means "devil" (and which is not the one used by the Church) and then propagated the lie that in Chinese the word "Mormon" means "Devil's gate," or "Gateway to Hell."


[b]H-D :tremonti:
OK
1. Smoothed by hands? What they said as the understsanding of that was totally not what I was thinking!!!!!

Sorry but I just read this and got annoyed.

Also
2. The restored church? That just makes me so mad. it's obvious that info from this site: http://www.irr.org/mit/ would be considered as anti-mormon to you guys cos You think as the restored church, that you are more enlightened than us, so any info from any other source is just crap right?

The site has the original book of mormon and various other things that make U guys look bad, but the thing is unless a site like this posts the original versions, U guys will never be aware of the changes. Prophecies included.

[facelessman]

here we go again

[Higher_Desire]

OK
1. Smoothed by hands? What they said as the understsanding of that was totally not what I was thinking!!!!!

Sorry but I just read this and got annoyed.

Also
2. The restored church? That just makes me so mad. it's obvious that info from this site: http://www.irr.org/mit/ would be considered as anti-mormon to you guys cos You think as the restored church, that you are more enlightened than us, so any info from any other source is just crap right?

The site has the original book of mormon and various other things that make U guys look bad, but the thing is unless a site like this posts the original versions, U guys will never be aware of the changes. Prophecies included.
"Smoothed by Hands" is an interpretation of the word Mormon from Chinese, if read as Mo-men. I think you need to read my posts a bit more carefully. That's probably why you're not understanding what I'm telling you.

Yes, that site is anti-mormon because it even says on the front page it was that there are additions from former-mormons. Hence, in reading their arguments, and since they left the church, they obviously want others to as well and prove it wrong. They mold things to fit their opinions. Also, we believe it to be the restored church as pertaining to the most like what Christ's church was like while on the earth during his ministry.

SleeplessAngel The Godmakers is NOT a documentary. I was being sarcastic about that. It is just a straight anti-mormon film.

Since this thread is doing absolutely nothing but going in circles, I'm not wasting my time here anymore. I thought we laid this whole thing to rest.


H-D :cool:

[creedsister]

Im Inspired To Say This The Bible Says To Everyone Must Make There Own Salvation Like Faceless Said I would Quote It But I dont Know How He Is Happy At This Time Were He Is And Its A Great Thing To Be Happy In The Lord Through Are Walk In Christ We Go Through Many Ups And Many Downs Can I Get Amen!!! And We Learn From Theme And Grow We Dont Stay The Same My Lord Pull You Foward not Backward. But The One Thing He Will Do Is Bring Something Back To Your Remerbrance. For His Reasons My Friends Now Whats Ur Not Taking In Now It Seems B/c The Souls Is Satasfied So You Guys Are At A Comfoterble Spot It Seems But There Will Always Come Day When You Will Seek More Truth And Knowlege And Only Then Will The Truth Come To For It Is The Only Thing That Cant Set U Free When It Comes That Time In Your Walks To Seek That Higher Truth That Is The Only Truth Mayby Then Ye Shall Be Set Free. Again What I Say I Say Out Of Love Not To Become A God Over U Its Like This My brothers If U knew That A Person Was About To Jump Of A Sky Scraper And Did Not tho Would Surley Die !!!!!! Would You Let That Person Take The Jump Or Would U Set Back And Whatch That Person Take The Fall Peace Be With U CreedSister

[facelessman]

Since this thread is doing absolutely nothing but going in circles, I'm not wasting my time here anymore. I thought we laid this whole thing to rest.


H-D :cool:
amen to that

[MyAngelwings]

has anyone here ever read it? and what do you think of it?
I have read some of it, I even was thinking about joining the mormons- I know they believe that Jesus spoke to Moroni here in the USA and that everything didnt just happen in jeruselem/isreal. And they beleive in Mother/Father god. That I dont get. I think its Mother being the earth and Father being God.