Scott Stapp's Chicago Explaination... survey

[velocityidp]

.

[Dogstar]

He definitely would have been better off to have said nothing. I'm not really buying the explanation, either, but there's no way he's going to ever say he was drunk or high or whatever the case was because of the lawsuit. That's just reality.

[velocityidp]

I'm just from the school of thought of, well, just being honest and letting the chips fall where they may. That's realism as far as I'm concerned.

I now really have serious questions about Stapp's character... sadly.

[Dogstar]

I'm not defending what he said or did, but there are many bad characters in the rock world, just as there are many bad characters in many other walks of life. I have learned not to expect much from people because overall, they disappoint me most of the time. But that's just me :D.

[velocityidp]

I agree, I think. It's just that I get a bit sick of those people (and you know they do this) that try to rationalize everything Stapp has said. Argh!

I love my Creed, but I'm not going to put blinders on when they do something reprehensible. As a Creed fan, I really am embarassed by Scott's behavior and I'm not afraid to say it.

[Dogstar]

I hear ya, velocity. It's mostly about the music for me anyway. :D

[JenRN]

Personally I think we should forget it already! It is in the past, and people just need to MOVE ON!! If I got my panties in a knot everytime something dissapointed me that I paid money for, hell I would never leave the house! :rolleyes:

[velocityidp]

Well, it's not like it's old news. And it's not about the $$... it's about the fact that so many people seem to just accept what he says. It's very aggrivating.

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

If Scott came out and said I'm sorry I got drunk, he would be sued for just being honest, I agree with Dogstar he's better off just to stay quiet

[JenRN]

Originally posted by Mr.CreedFreakTN
If Scott came out and said  I'm sorry  I got drunk, he would be sued for  just being honest, I agree with Dogstar he's better off just to stay quiet
EXACTELY!!!!!! But in the same sense why the hell should he get sued for being drunk? This is a rock concert NOT a Disney Show!!!!!:rolleyes: I mean we could go back and forth with this forever, some people feel aggrivated and some are just like "get over it already!"

[velocityidp]

Well he's already been sued.

If Scott would have just *told the truth* from the beginning and either refunded the ticket prices or given a complementary concert, they wouldn't have been in this mess.

Now, they are screwed either way...

1) They win the suit, but get horrible publicity and retain the profits made from Chicago. However, all those legal fees will likely make that a moot point.

2)They lose the suit, and get even worse publicity and lose the profits from Chicago. Moreover, the legal fees make it even worse.

And these are just legal/financial points -- I didn't even mention the moral aspects of this situation.

BOTTOM LINE: Don't screw your fans over and then lie to them. Duh.

[JenRN]

Personally I think that the people who found such offense to his behavior should of saved their ticket stub and the band should have refunded them. Not all the people that attended that show feel the same way. I just think it is riduculous that Creed is held to these standards. No matter what, a couple of people who started all this crap have made it a problem! I have attended a rock show before and been less than satisfied but I got over it and did not make such a damn big deal over it!

[velocityidp]

Just so you know, I'm not for these suits. I mean, the two guys that started this thing have a bit too much time on their hands. "Losing" $50 to a questionable show isn't the end of the world.

But I really don't think it's about the money... it's about Creed not respecting the fans. I mean, it should come as no suprise that if you totally disrespect them, a few are going to go legally ballistic on you.

All Creed had to do was make it right with the fans (as you said) and none of this stuff would have happened. Now, as far as I'm concerned, the negative press they are currently recieving is totally valid. Particularly after Stapp's recent comments. I don't think he learned a thing in all this.

[JenRN]

I feel bad for him sometimes. No matter what he freakin says people are pissed. If he is genuine and nice and giving people call him a "pussy" and loser. If he acts out or does something less than desirable people riducule him then. No matter what he does someone is always ragging on him. I quite frankly don't know any other rock star that is riduculed like he is! Then people say "he did it to himself" well....... not so! He never once said he was GOD or better than anyone else, it is others that INTERPRITED it that way, it is their issue not his!

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

I'm going to see 3 DOORS DOWN tonite, and I'm going to get drunk before I go so I wont be upset if the band come out drunk and put on a bad show.

[velocityidp]

No matter what he does someone is always ragging on him. I quite frankly don't know any other rock star that is riduculed like he is! Then people say "he did it to himself" well....... not so! He never once said he was GOD or better than anyone else

I'm not talking about the other stuff. Stapp and Creed have gotten the short end of the stick most of the time, unfairly. But in this particular case, Stapp deserves what he got. There's just no defense for treating fans like this.

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

There was a band in the 80's early 90's , that was a Christian rock band called "STRYPER". I loved this band , but every where they turned people were putting them down, they weren't Godly enough because they had long hair wore tight clothes rode in limo's, that's what they got from the Christian side , the other was from people saying they suck , there a hair band, there music is for wimps, it finally drug the band down. I'm proud to say they are back and going on tour this fall. If friggin morons would just worry about their own problems and leave everyone else alone, the world would be a much better place. ( Just give love to all) Scott Stapp.

[velocityidp]

That story has nothing to do with the Chicago incident and (much worse) the ridiculous and insulting "excuse" Scott gave.

I wish us Creed fans would take our blinders off for one second and call a spade a spade.

[JenRN]

Yeah I remember Stryper MR TN! I liked some of thier stuff. I remember all the slack they got too!:rolleyes:

[JenRN]

Originally posted by velocityidp
<b>That story has nothing to do with the Chicago incident and (much worse) the ridiculous and insulting "excuse" Scott gave. &nbsp;

I wish us Creed fans would take our blinders off for one second and call a spade a spade. </b>
Well I never once said he did no wrong! I just think it is WAY out of hand and people need to get a f**cking grip! That is all!

[velocityidp]

OK, no problem. I agree the suit is not right, but what in the heck did they expect would happen?

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

YOU GO GIRL........

[JenRN]

I guess they did not expect thier fans to react this way!:dunno: We live in a world were everyone wants to sue everyone:rolleyes: I know, I live it everyday at my job!:mad:

[Sheila63]

I agree with you Jen, Mr.CreedFreak and Dogstar.

I feel he would have been better of if he hadn't made any statement as well but I also remember Linda (njcreedite) stating in another thread here in the Band forum that she knows someone personally who said the Scott was misquoted. I know I don't always believe everything I see in print. Even if he was quoted correctly, he may have been told what to say by their attorneys. Only those involved know for sure.

[velocityidp]

Even if he was quoted correctly, he may have been told what to say by their attorneys. Only those involved know for sure.

Oh come on...

1) That's pretty cynical and unlikely
2) If it is true, that worse than him giving us this BS story about "artistic expression." So you're saying he might be lying about what happened at the concert to combat the suit? He could be jailed for purjury.

[JenRN]

What?:confused: He did not say that under oath!

[velocityidp]

Yeah, but if he's going to stick to that story, he will eventually have to (assuming he will opt to take the stand).

He could also be charged with obstruction of justice for what he's said already... because it cuts right to the heart of the legal case.

[Sheila63]

Originally posted by JenRN
I guess they did not expect thier fans to react this way!:dunno: We live in a world were everyone wants to sue everyone:rolleyes: I know, I live it everyday at my job!:mad:

You're right, it's sickening how sue happy a lot of people are in this country. Call me a wimp, a bleeding heart or whatever you want but my first reaction to all of this was concern because I know from what I've heard about their shows that something pretty significant must having been going on with him by the reviews of the concert. No one behaves that differently unless something significant is happening to them. Not to say that this in any way excuses what happened, but I've been disappointed with concerts I've gone to as well but I haven't sue anyone.

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

It has everything to do with it Velocityidp, you seem to be hell bent on getting someone to say Scott screwd up, are you trying to prove something to us or just yourself? The last time I checked you weren't Jesus Christ so quit trying to save us already.

[velocityidp]

Most of you guys can't say he screwed up because you cling blindly to Creed. I'm a huge Creed fan, but I'm going to call a spade a spade no matter who it is. There's no sense of standards of decency and respect for fans. That's the problem.

What was your vote? If you want to "support Scott 100%," you should be voting for choice #3, because that's the line he's sticking with. Nobody has voted for it yet, because deep down they know it's absurd.

[Sheila63]

All right, I'll say it "He screwed up." My point is that alot of people screw up. Alot of other singers/groups/musicians have screwed up more than this and has anything happened to them?!!! I also understand that he, like everyone else, is human and we all make mistakes.

[velocityidp]

I agree he's human and he (like me) makes mistakes. I was able to live with that until the latest comment, though. He's made 4 "mistakes" now, and it looks like a pattern of either denial or sinister motives:


Mistake #1: Getting drunk and/or high in front of fans during a concert they paid for

Mistake #2: Not refunding tickets or doing a make-up show

Mistake #3: Blowing off fans' concerns with the JHMP "Part of Rock-n-Roll History!" comment.

Mistake #4: Scott's "It was all just artistic expression. The fans just don't get it..." comment.


I agree that other bands have done some pretty bad things and have not been sued. I've already said I don't agree with the lawsuit from a legal standpoint.

Creed, and Stapp in particular has done wrong to its fans too many times in this whole mess. Forgiveness is a Godly virtue, but forgiveness must be *asked for* before it can be given. He has not asked for it -- he's just trying to make excuses for his continuing poor and disrespectful behavior.

I really hope he is able to apologize at some point in time, because I *will* forgive him. I guess we'll all know the real truth once the legal proceedings take place and we are able to view the video of the performance.

-Nicholas

[JenRN]

If this case actually makes it to court it proves how pathetic our judicial system has really gotten!:rolleyes: Give me a freaking break!

[Dogstar]

Originally posted by JenRN
If this case actually makes it to court it proves how pathetic our judicial system has really gotten!:rolleyes: &nbsp;Give me a freaking break!

DITTO!

[Sheila63]

Double Ditto!!

[Higher_Desire]

I agree with his explanation, but I don't really agree with the way he decided to "express himself." There was probably a better way to express himself. I am a CreedFeed and will stand by Creed.


H-D

[Higher_Desire]

PS - Why can't we drop this issue and get on with our lives?


H-D

[SCOTTSMYMAN]

I second that!

[velocityidp]

Originally posted by Higher_Desire
PS - Why can't we drop this issue and get on with our lives?


H-D

Deal with reality, guys

[farmgirl]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Higher_Desire
[B]PS - Why can't we drop this issue and get on with our lives?

Exactly, neither side is going to convince the other to change their opinions on this so why keep arguing/discussing it?

[velocityidp]

Cuz this is a discussion board.

If everyone thought the same, this would be a very boring world.

[farmgirl]

I'm not saying everyone should think the same, but its been 7 months since the concert, and everyone know what the others feel about it, it only fuels arguments, at least on the other boards I go to.

One thing about this board, for the most part, people are more civil here to each other about their opinions.

[Dogstar]

Well, unfortunately, Scott Stapp's comments stoked the embers of an apparently still-burning fans' ire.

[Higher_Desire]

I didn't mean just us when I posted that. I mean everyone who attended the show who are still complaining about it too. No one will change their mind on their stance; not the supporters, not the discenters, not Creed themselves. There's no use posting another thread about it, or trying to win the court battle.


H-D

[lisamariekikker]

I would like you to find me one person who was satisfied with the Chicago concert-I myself am agaist the law suit,however,the concert was....disappointing! Scott was impared-I was there-1st row to the side-I know some want to see it with their own eyes-understandable-I saw it with my own eyes-I was scared for him

[velocityidp]

I was there too... frankly I don't care if the show was sub-par or not.

What really gets me is that he has the audacity to tell me that I'm basically a moron and it was just "artistic expression." I don't like being lied to repeatedly. That was mistake #4 in this whole mess, Mr. Stapp.

Good grief, just admit what you did and refund the money. It's too late to give a complimentary show, and the bad publicity of going to court is going to lose more than that one dumb show did.

Honesty and respect are all I really care about in all this.

[facelessman]

am i the only one that believes him?

[velocityidp]

no offense, but I sure hope so!

[aprile89]

Velocity THANK GOD!!! I think EXACTLY the way you do. I was at the show also....

I hope whoever wrote the article did put words into Stapps mouth ... because if the writter did it word for word Scott shoulda kept his pie hole shut. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Creed and their music and CANNOT wait till they come out with the new stuff!!

Does Stapp really think the 15,000 people that were there that night are going to SWALLOW the load of CRAP he's served us yet again??? Ok so if it was a "Personal" gesture .. was that the reason he walked off the stage and left the other 3 there with the WTF looks on their faces???

Or how about the fact he couldn't sing "Higher" because he kept messin the words up?? Or The fact he was standing there with just his pants on and a towel??

It's funny...... Stapp says *supposedly* that he felt like no one had his back. What a load of CRAP .. you have 15,000 screaming FANS Screaming your name. 15,000 fans that love you... and your gonna boo hoo about no one havin your back??? Give me a break......

I'm sorry if I don't like being Served a load of Crap all over again.... actually Stapps comments have pissed me off more than the concert!!! I mean does Stapp need me to mail him the pics I have of him rolling around on the floor??? I got close up pics of Stapp from a good source at allstate ...

[JenRN]

Ummm..... he and the band have watched the video of the concert many times Aprile89:) That was stated as well!

[ZION1010]

I have to agree with you CREEDFREAKTN i never heard of no one demanding a refund for parking no less At a guns nroses concert I belive the pubic as well as afans our coming down abit hard on scott Ido n fact belive he was drunk but with anew wine that the world knows not and passing it off as art READ ACTS the Sprit of god is With this band and Im for em all the way BECAUSE scotts chose toWIN TO FIGHT WE ALL FEEL WEATHERD SOMETIMES.......

[marlsy]

I wasn't there but with what I've heard and pics I've seen, I don't believe his statement. On that note, it dosn't make me like their music any less!! I love Creeds music and always will!! I'm not going to lose any respect for him though only because I wansnt there to see for myself so how can I judge it? I can only go by what Ive seen and heard and with that I think he was drunk!! I have to say i've only seen Creed once and if he would of did that to me at the concert I went to in L.A. I would of been really sad and worried, but also I would of wanted a make up show or my money back.................... and then if he would of came out saying he wasn't drunk and he was and I KNEW it, I would be a bit upset too. He should of kept his mouth shut!!!!!!

[velocityidp]

Originally posted by ZION1010
I have to agree with you CREEDFREAKTN i never heard of no one demanding a refund for parking no less At a guns nroses concert &nbsp;I belive the pubic as well as afans our coming down abit hard on scott Ido &nbsp;n fact belive he was drunk but with anew wine that the world knows not and passing it off as art READ ACTS the Sprit of god is With this band and Im for em &nbsp;all the way BECAUSE scotts chose toWIN TO FIGHT WE ALL FEEL WEATHERD SOMETIMES.......


What in the heck is this guy talking about?? Lol... Spirit of God with the band? I'm a Christian, but this is crazy-talk.

Get it in your heads: Creed isn't a Christian band.

[velocityidp]

aprile89, thanks so much. I agree with everything you said. It's so obvious!

[aprile89]

Originally posted by JenRN
Ummm..... he and the band have watched the video of the concert many times Aprile89:) That was stated as well!

But Jen .... if he had seen the tape and then said he doesn't see what the fuss is about then either he's watchin the WRONG concert or he should put the DRINK DOWN and watch it again sober.... cause the rest of us DID ;)

Like I said before, I LOVE Creed and will support them but I will not suport The Aleged comments he's made. That's all I am saying :) :) Hell I wish I coulda PARTIED with them before he went on ..... then the concert wouldn't have been such a dissapointment!! LMAO!!!

[njcreedite]

Well.....this subject certainly brings out the opinions....;)

As I've stated on other threads...I'm not thrilled by any of this. I think it's been handled poorly by Creed management. I think the lawsuit is a joke. I think Scott's comments were inflammatory. Whether he was quoted correctly or not, the entire article did nothing but fan the flames of fan ire. I feel badly for Scott. He's in a tough spot now. He'll be bashed no matter what he says. It's a lose lose situation. Even if he were to apologize and confess to any percieved wrong doing....he'll be torn to shreds. Not that he didn't help put himself into this situation. I just feel that he wasn't exactly advised well on how to handle the problem. It's a bit late in the game for him to just throw out a "I'm sorry". I don't think that would help matters at this point.
The people I feel most for...are the rest of the band. They have to handle all of this as well. They are included in the band bashing. It's a shame. Maybe they should have spoken up....maybe not. Again, I think the whole thing is lose-lose for Creed. There is no good way for them to go with this. So....I think I'll just wait it out, and wait impatiently for the new CD to come out. After all....to me it's always been about the music.

[velocityidp]

I agree... it is lose-lose and both the management & Creed handled it poorly. All they would have had to do was

1) At the very least, offer an apology right away
2) To set things 100% right, offer a refund or another show

In other words, "just do the right thing." Since they failed to do the right thing, they are going to have to live with the results. I hope they have learned from this experience... but I'm not sure sure cuz they (he) is still doing the wrong thing!

Very aggrivating.

[njcreedite]

Well, the apology wouldn't have been a bad idea to many. I do think they would have gotten scathing reviews from the media and many fans if they did. You just can't please some people.
As far as the free show.....Why?? Yes, they've done it before. but why do many people feel they should get a free show? Many bands stink and never give a free show. Many other type of shows and events stink and you don't get a freebie. Yes, it may have help, but logistically it would have been tough for them to do.
Refund?? Why sent that precidence? If they do it this time, people will expect one for each show (like free shows). It doesn't matter if all the future shows are perfect (GOD..I hope not...I like a little imperfection...makes it more human and real)..someone would still want a refund. Many would...just so they could go for free. Ahhh Human nature.
Well....I guess there is really NO good way to handle things like this. They happen, but there's no good way to handle them. Admitting it was a diff. type of show (they did this) and then apologizing to those who felt it wasn't what they were expecting (didn't do this)....may have been the way to go. Either way ...they still would have been bashed, but it might have been over with by now.

[velocityidp]

The show was probably their worst ever. They've already offered reduced-price (essentially free) shows before due to performances they thought didn't live up to their high standards. Why, then, didnt they do that in Chicago? It boggles my mind...

You'd think if they cared for the fans they'd bend over backwards to try and make right the massive amount of disrespect shoveled on the fans that night. Legality was never an issue at their other sub-par shows. Gimme a break.

[velocityidp]

By the way, my scientific polling shows 18-7 that people don't buy Stapp's excuse. Furthermore, 8 people strongly disagree with him while only 2 strongly agree.

[Lechium]

when even die hard fans stop buying into your shit, that kinda says a lot.

[njcreedite]

Originally posted by velocityidp
The show was probably their worst ever. They've already offered reduced-price (essentially free) shows before due to performances they thought didn't live up to their high standards. Why, then, didnt they do that in Chicago? It boggles my mind...

You'd think if they cared for the fans they'd bend over backwards to try and make right the massive amount of disrespect shoveled on the fans that night. Legality was never an issue at their other sub-par shows. Gimme a break.

Yes, they've given free shows before...but there is no rule that says they have too. I think timing was more of a problem then, being it was at the very end of the tour. Too hard to schedule, so it probably wasn't even considered. There probably wasn't even a thought about the legality of it. If this had accured during the beginning or middle of the tour....you may have recieved your show. This was the second to the last show. No way could they just re-schedule it.
There's also no rule that says a band must respect their fans. Many don't, some do. It's good business to please the fans, but many will buy the CD's and go to shows either way. The biggest selling bands are not always the most fan friendly. I guess that says a lot about human nature too.

[velocityidp]

At this point, the only thing that will clear this up for me is (if the suit is pursued) seeing the video in the courtroom.

And I'm still a huge fan of Creed's music as well as Stapp/Trem/Flip/Brett. This whole incident has just left a bad taste in my mouth -- it's not the end of the world, but it is very dissapointing to say the least.

[JenRN]

The best thing they could do is put out and INCREDIBLE new Cd and put on a spectacular tour with lots of cool contests etc... If you keep looking back at how things "should of been" you can never go forward!

[velocityidp]

Originally posted by njcreedite
Yes, they've given free shows before...but there is no rule that says they have too. &nbsp;
Well duh. That's not the point though.


There's also no rule that says a band must respect their fans. &nbsp;Many don't, some do. &nbsp;It's good business to please the fans.
Well duh. I'm not talking legalities here. There's no rule that says Scott has to use a microphone while he sings, but everyone expects him to. Good grief!

This is about respecting the fans as Creed has always sought to. Creed has been VERY good to their fans, but this one occasion stands out.

[njcreedite]

Originally posted by JenRN
<b>The best thing they could do is put out and INCREDIBLE new Cd and put on a spectacular tour with lots of cool contests etc... If you keep looking back at how things "should of been" you can never go forward! </b>

Exactly right Jen.:D


oh....and Velocitydp....DUH!!! No kidding.

[Julbright]

Velocitydp - I am right with you again. You know I was a little disappointed to lose the money but the real loss was my disappointment in the whole process. They have no right to call me a liar and state that I am attacking their character - give me a break. It is so frustrating to those of us who were there becuase he is lying about it and I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but he blew that when he made these statements. I really believed he would get honest with himself and with us at some point and these statements really set me back.

And being a good fan does not mean that you only say positive things about the band. Just as in any relationship, you take the good with the bad and there will be bad times. The fact that this whole fiasco infuriates me sometimes does not take away from my ability to enjoy Creed or be a loyal fan. I just am apalled that they took my money and ran away laughing, and now they have decided to call me a liar. If I went to a movie and it quit half way through I would hope the theater would offer me the opportunity to come back and see the movie in its entirety again. I want a free show and the money is useless. I want to experience Scott Stapp is all his wonderful passion and intensity. That is what I want and that is what he deprived me of. And since I am sure he has still has plenty of passion and intensity lying around (no pun intended) he can surely pull it together and honor my loyalty by giving me another chance to see him.

Velocity - I got your back. I agree with you totally.

[souldancer]

Originally posted by velocityidp
Well duh. That's not the point though.


Well duh. I'm not talking legalities here. There's no rule that says Scott has to use a microphone while he sings, but everyone expects him to. Good grief! &nbsp;

This is about respecting the fans as Creed has always sought to. Creed has been VERY good to their fans, but this one occasion stands out.

V---- I found your 'duh' remarks rather rude. You expect Stapp/Creed to give respect to their fans, perhaps you should practice your preaching respect here too. Or, just face the fact that humans have weaknesses. We love them when they are on top and strong, we put them on pedestals - then if they do ONE thing we don't like we regurgitate the incident over and over like a bunch of cows in a pasture.
As for truth and honesty - we are not talking about a murder here! And, like Dogstar pointed out..they are dealing with media/public relations messes with masses...I wouldn't expect an honest/real quote within that framework of the situation anyway...but I am damn sure excited about their music in the future and know those lyrics will reveal their humble truth and passion of living authentically - as they always have!
Let’s leave…oh let’s get away
Run in fields of time
Where there’s no reason to hide

[aprile89]

Originally posted by souldancer
Or, just face the fact that humans have weaknesses. &nbsp;We love them when they are on top and strong, we put them on pedestals - then if they do ONE thing we don't like we regurgitate the incident over and over like a bunch of cows in a pasture. &nbsp;
[/i]

I have to disagree with you to a certain point. In my book they are still on the pedestal BUT the way they have gone about this SUCKS. In my opinion *note the MY in that sentence* If you were not at the show you have NO idea what we saw. I mean you can get an Good idea, but the visions of Scott rolling around on the floor, walking off of the stage, forgetting the lyrics, sitting in front of Flips drums most of the night and then *SUPPOSEDLY* saying that he doesn't understand what the fuss is all about and it was a personal gesture?? I find that alleged comment offensive. I KNEW as soon as he stepped out on stage he wasn't right....... So to me his personal GESTURE lasted for an hour or so... give or take with his little episode of walking off the stage over and over again ....

[ZION1010]

Mans Eyes OUR defiled with evil you dont call a good thing evil>>>WHY HAVE THE BROKE OUR CORDS FROMS US AND WHY DO THE IMANGINE A VAIN THING>>>PSLAMS theres nothing new under the sun that was not before And shall be again>>>Creed IM FOR YOU GUYS ALL THE WAY >>> MAY GODS LOVE KEEP YOU AND GUIDE YOU

[velocityidp]

Originally posted by souldancer
V---- I found your 'duh' remarks rather rude. You expect Stapp/Creed to give respect to their fans, perhaps you should practice your preaching respect here too. &nbsp;
I'll take that criticism. Wasn't meant to be disrespectful -- I mean, everyone knows that "respecting fans" is not a law. Typed letters never 100% correctly represent what the author is trying to articulate. I was talking in a more playfull manner and wasn't trying to be rude/mean.


Or, just face the fact that humans have weaknesses. &nbsp;...then if they do ONE thing we don't like we regurgitate the incident over and over like a bunch of cows in a pasture.
Well, it wasn't ONE thing. His "one" thing was the simple fact that he went on stage they way he did. If he would have simply apologized, I would have fogiven him (I've said this from the very beginning). However, multiple other mistakes/lies were purpotrated since then. We all have weaknesses, but that doesn't mean we can't point out a wrongdoing and call him on it. Humans may have weaknesses, but they also have responsibilities.


As for truth and honesty - we are not talking about a murder here!
So somebody has to be murdered before one can be held accountable for his/her actions? I fail to understand this point. Truth and honesty matter REGARDLESS of the circumstances. I don't believe in moral reletivism.



And, like Dogstar pointed out..they are dealing with media/public relations messes with masses...I wouldn't expect an honest/real quote within that framework of the situation anyway...
That's moral reletivism again. I fully expect anyone to tell the truth no matter what the circumstances. An honest and forthright man would tell the truth and let the cards fall where they may. Heck, if Stapp would have done that to begin with, he wouldn't be in this mess. Now he's just going to have to keep lying to keep his story straight. What a pity.


humble truth and passion of living authentically - as they always have!
Yeah I look forward to the next album too, but come on -- "humble truth" and "authenticity" are the last words I'm going to use to describe Stapp right now. I am not saying I'm better than Stapp, because I've purpotrated my fair share of sins, but I'm not going to refrain from speaking the truth.

[velocityidp]

ZION.. dude, what in the heck are you talking about?? I'm a Christian, but your nonsensical "Biblical" ramblings are starting to get out of hand.

1) You're not making sense
2) You're acting like some kind of relentless Bible-thumper -- two things Christ never was

[hotforscott]

Just FYI, Zion is a girl. I didn't know until she mentioned it in another thread. I do have to agree with your bible thumping comment. It's getting out of hand and is pretty much one big run on sentence.

[velocityidp]

It's not even a sentance :P

[Lechium]

I dont get what's going on?
creed gave a bad concert
than they cover it up by lies, and saying that concert was full of artistic statements
and some of you still saying that everything is happenign the way it should be
what the hell? just admit it -- they fucked up and arent men enough to admit that they did.

[velocityidp]

Exactly... just because you admit that doesn't mean you hate Creed, it just means you're calling things the way they are. That's it.

Bottom line:

What Stapp did is not the end of the world, but at least admit it was wrong and that it's his responsibility to rectify the situation.

[Lechium]

I dont hate them actually, just dont like them either.
And after this insident I've lost whatever respect I had towards them, too.

[velocityidp]

Well, to be fair this is Stapp's issue -- he just dragged the others in along with him. Still, by-and-large I think Stapp is a good guy and does a lot of good things, but he really screwed up on this situation.

I guess the only thing we can do is wait for the video to be shown in court so we'll know exactly what he saw.

[aprile89]

Originally posted by velocityidp
Well, to be fair this is Stapp's issue -- he just dragged the others in along with him. Still, by-and-large I think Stapp is a good guy and does a lot of good things, but he really screwed up on this situation.

I guess the only thing we can do is wait for the video to be shown in court so we'll know exactly what he saw.

Ok now he can't be THAT Stupid to show the Video can he??? **Screams** For the LOVE OF GOD stop embarassing yourself and suck it up STAPP!!!!

[velocityidp]

Originally posted by aprile89
Ok now he can't be THAT Stupid to show the Video can he??? &nbsp;**Screams** For the LOVE OF GOD stop embarassing yourself and suck it up STAPP!!!!
Well, if the lawsuit goes forward, they'll have to show the tape in court -- they'd have no choice.

[aprile89]

Well, If they have to show the tape they are SCREWED!!! Just like the FANS that bought a ticket *snickers* LOL I had to stick that one in there.... gotta stir the bucket LMAO:razz: :crest: :chic:

[ZION1010]

LOOK A WAY

[velocityidp]

Originally posted by ZION1010
LOOK &nbsp; A WAY

Argh...

[Dogstar]

I fully expect anyone to tell the truth no matter what the circumstances. An honest and forthright man would tell the truth and let the cards fall where they may. Heck, if Stapp would have done that to begin with, he wouldn't be in this mess. Now he's just going to have to keep lying to keep his story straight. What a pity

All moral relativity aside, you are not dealing in reality. What you want from Stapp you won't get, if for no other reason than the legal issues. That is reality.

[velocityidp]

Originally posted by Dogstar
All moral relativity aside, you are not dealing in reality. What you want from Stapp you won't get, if for no other reason than the legal issues. That is reality.

Reality is what he makes it. In this materialistic world, it may not be compulsory. But I would reject that. To suggest that his actions are "understandable" under the circumstances ostensibly suggest that what he's doing is ok. It's either right of wrong as far as I'm concerned, and I think we both agree he's not been doing the right thing in all this.

[Dogstar]

I wasn't addressing the right or wrong part of it. I was addressing the REALITY part of it. You keep expecting him to do something he or 99 percent of the people in a similar situation would not do. He's not going to 'fess up with millions at stake. That's the bottom line. I already said earlier that I didn't buy his explanation and that yes, it was disappointing to me that he said it. I said he would have been better off saying nothing.

[velocityidp]

Originally posted by Dogstar
I wasn't addressing the right or wrong part of it. I was addressing the REALITY part of it. You keep expecting him to do something he or 99 percent of the people in a similar situation would not do. He's not going to 'fess up with millions at stake. That's the bottom line. I already said earlier that I didn't buy his explanation and that yes, it was disappointing to me that he said it. I said he would have been better off saying nothing.

I understand what you're saying... but I guess I just have a problem with writing it off to "reality." I know where you're coming from, but I really think (with all due respect) it's an invalid point. I think the true reality is that he did the wrong thing on several occassions, and now he's going to have to deal with the ramifications.

[Dogstar]

Im not *writing off* anything and I resent any such implication that my moral standards are somehow inferior simply because I choose to accept the fact that he won't do what you've said is the right thing to do. I'm dealing with reality. That is just the way our society is. I don't like it, but I'm not going to bang my head against the fricken wall or pull a Don Quixote. You have to accept that some people just aren't going to be on the same moral page. In our society, that number is large. It's unfortunate, but it's the way it is.

[velocityidp]

Im not *writing off* anything and I resent any such implication that my moral standards are somehow inferior
I never said that... and I don't think that. I was trying to make an "academic" point and nothing more.

I'm dealing with reality. I don't like it, but I'm not going to bang my head against the fricken wall
And I said I understand where you're coming from. The only reason I keep posting on this subject is that there are still people (not including you) that seem to accept this behavior and give Scott a "pass" just because he's Creed.

If you think I'm just being arguementative, you might be right. I tend to do that sometimes. But it's more about the enjoyment of discussion/debate than it is me "asserting superior morals." If I come across that way, I surely don't mean to.

[souldancer]

Originally posted by velocityidp
[B
And I said I understand where you're coming from. The only reason I keep posting on this subject is that there are still people (not including you) that seem to accept this behavior and give Scott a "pass" just because he's Creed.

If you think I'm just being arguementative, you might be right. I tend to do that sometimes. But it's more about the enjoyment of discussion/debate than it is me "asserting superior morals." If I come across that way, I surely don't mean to. [/b]

Well, maybe some of us just feel FINE with how we accept this situation! As diffidult as it may be for you to believe this. And, sometimes life is about just accepting how we are! You are argumentative and Scott is passionate. So, why the friggin hell you can't just let this go is hard for me to personally grasp. These guys are musicians and not some judges or religious icons. But, as my cofee mug says,,,"whatever"...Just stop fucking messing with my favorite band - and my CreedFeedFriends! (ha, had to add that...)

[souldancer]

Been thinking back about the six Creed concerts I had the fortune of going to in 2002,,,and spending the evening watching some videos of other concerts,...and it is clear how much effort and heart that Scott puts into his music - his permformances. And, to think that some people persecute him for Chicago makes me want to just totally vomit in the froth of reality. How many threads do we have here that praise Scott/Creed for each of their single performances? Have we succumbed so low that we beat to the drum or criticism before we rise to the song of the spirit?! And, as Creed said,,,,"this song goes out to all the critics... <b> "I feel I've been beaten down by the words of men who have no grounds. I can't sleep beneath the trees of wisdom When your ax has cut the roots that feed them. Forked tongues in bitter mouths can drive a man to bleed from inside out... </b>

I am going to close...as I watched Creed goodness, esp. at the Winter Olympics...with "Don't Stop Dancing." Peace....Good night...God Bless. Thanks, Creed for reminding me of that strength and hope and innate goodness. I need to go to bed now......PRAISING CREED FOR ALL YOU DO! GOOD< BAD< UGLY.. whatever, is all YOU !

...Don't have to settle the score
Cause we all live
Under the reign of One ...

[aprile89]

Originally posted by souldancer
[B]Been thinking back about the six Creed concerts I had the fortune of going to in 2002,,,and spending the evening watching some videos of other concerts,...and it is clear &nbsp;how much effort and heart that Scott puts into his music - his permformances. And, to think that some people persecute him for Chicago makes me want to just totally vomit in the froth of reality. How many threads do we have here that praise Scott/Creed for each of their single performances? &nbsp;Have we succumbed so low that we beat to the drum or criticism before we rise to the song of the spirit?!


Know what makes me want to vomit??? People that have their head so far up Stapps ASS they can't see the truth. He was DRUNK and put on a CRAPPY performance. There's nothing to discuss.... If you could look back and think about the 6 Creed Concerts and the 6th one he was DRUNK, couldn't remember the words, rolled around on the floor, LEFT the STAGE for a 1/2 hour wouldn't you be disappointed???? THEN to make it worse *to me at least* The put on a KICK ASS show for NYE. WTF happened to Chicago???? Why did we get the short end of the stick????? I think Scott is an AWSOME performer When he's NOT DRUNK. THAT'S the reason I went to see then 4 times!!!! not just ONCE. So the discussion here isn't "Scott sucks, I hate Creed" or anything like that. The fans that were there SAW what was going on and we're discussion our DISAPPOINTMENT in the performace, not Scott or the other Members.

[Julbright]

At the risk of joining on the bandwagon and being accused of being argumentative, I just want to reiterate that Chicago IS a big deal because it has shaken up all of what I thought Scott Stapp stood for. I still think most of us who are still disturbed by it are not so concerned about his actual lack of performance at this concert but much more disappointed in the lack of character he has shown in handling the aftermath. IT is BECAUSE WE CARE about Scott and understand his character that we are concerned - this has nothing to do with attacking him on my part. I am not a critic. I AM HOWEVER a consumer who was cheated out of the passion I paid for. I have seen other Creed concerts which were phenomenal! It isn't about capabilities, or whatever. It is about this HUGE mistake and his failure to accept responsbility for it. I am certain that his legal battles are preventing him from dealing with it in his own ethical way, but this is getting a little ridiculous. I prefered his being silent. At least that way I could give him the benefit of the doubt.

Ok - I am off my soapbox. Thanks

[Julbright]

Right on - Aprile!

[velocityidp]

And, sometimes life is about just accepting how we are!
You accept that he, in this case, is a liar?

You are argumentative and Scott is passionate.
Huh? No, he was not passionate that night. He was drunk and/or high. Gah! Passionate? What in the heck are you talking about?

Just stop fucking messing with my favorite band
No. Creed's my favorite band too, but I'm not going to be so blind and accept whatever Scott does just because he's Creed's frontman. (That's what you're doing)

[JenRN]

You know I have joined this conversation and given my thoughts many of times and I understand all of your frusterations BUT.......... the time has come to GET OVER IT!!!!! I agree with souldancer ok so he F**cked up! Do you actually think he is proud of that being the perfectionist he is? I think he has gotten himself in such a rut with this he feels cornered. Give me a break I have been to several concerts of theirs as well and I have seen 1 foot in front of me the hard work and passion put in their shows. Yeah it is unfortunate that this happened and some people did not get the "Creed experience" but oh well, life freaking goes on you know! Everyone feels like they are owed something all the damn time, guess what....... life is not always a bowl of cheeries! People make mistakes and that is life. It just so happens his mistakes are made in front of thousands of people! If we are not careful Creed may just though in the towel, would that make you all happy? It is enough that Stapp has been ridiculed over this, it was almost 9 months ago!!! Can you even imagine yourself being ridiculed over something you did 9 months ago, imagine how it would suck! Yeah he is a performer and yeah that is his job, BUT..... haven't you ever made a mistake at work? It is all the same in the realm of things, this is his job, and he was going though what to him was horrible personal issues and HE SCREWED UP! GEEZ....... everyone screws up! So if he comes out and tears up on camera and says the actual words "I'm sorry" do you actually think it would help? HELL NO!!!!! People for some reason what his blood, want him to make up and excuse as to why this happened. WE all know mostly why it happened, he reached his limit, personally, physically and emotionally.... and he just chose the wrong outlet. So to be sued over this is ridiculous and immature and selfish! I know people that were there that night and you know what, they looked at it a whole hell of a lot different, and they are NOT crying the blue streak demanding money back and an apology! What the hell good is an apology going to do 9 months later? Sorry I know this is going to piss off a lot of people but oh well, it is the way I feel and bottom line is IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :peace:

[aprile89]

JenRN I agree with you mostly... and to be honest with you MOST of my posts sounded alot like yours till Scott opened his mouth. Ok so it was 9 months ago.. why did he open HIS mouth and spill out such CRAP?? I don't want Scotts Blood or an apology, frankly I don't want anything but the truth. Why you ask? Why do you want the truth? Is it going to make any difference? Nope, but from the comments Scott has made *allegedly* and from what I saw that night. I know *and this take ALOT for me to say* but I know he's NOT telling the truth AT ALL. So if Scott just wanted to brush this under the rug he shoulda kept his mouth shut. All he did was Stir the bucket and Frankly it smells like CRAP. I was over it but the recent comments make those of us that were there look like liars. My eyes and ears don't lie and they saw what 15,000 other disappointed fans saw. I don't want to piss anyone off at all. I Like ALL of you guys. and I STILL love Creed. If I didn't I wouldn't be here with you guys! I hope Scott and the guys make the 4th album *WOW did I show my age on that one?? LOL* a KICK ASS, blow your mind album!! I can't wait!!!! and yes.. I WILL be there in the PIT when they come back to Chicago!!! Anyone wanna come with me???? And for the Record, I don't believe in the law suit. Hell, I was one of the people that started the Creed petition!! I think I am 3# I will ALWAYS Love Creed!! Creed petition (http://petitiononline.com/creed00/petition.html)

[Sheila63]

Originally posted by JenRN
<b>You know I have joined this conversation and given my thoughts many of times and I understand all of your frusterations BUT.......... the time has come to GET OVER IT!!!!! &nbsp;I agree with souldancer ok so he F**cked up! Do you actually think he is proud of that being the perfectionist he is? I think he has gotten himself in such a rut with this he feels cornered. &nbsp;Give me a break I have been to several concerts of theirs as well and I have seen 1 foot in front of me the hard work and passion put in their shows. &nbsp;Yeah it is unfortunate that this happened and some people did not get the "Creed experience" but oh well, life freaking goes on you know! &nbsp;Everyone feels like they are owed something all the damn time, guess what....... life is not always a bowl of cheeries! &nbsp;People make mistakes and that is life. &nbsp;It just so happens his mistakes are made in front of thousands of people! &nbsp; If we are not careful Creed may just though in the towel, would that make you all happy? &nbsp; It is enough that Stapp has been ridiculed over this, it was almost 9 months ago!!! Can you even imagine yourself being ridiculed over something you did 9 months ago, imagine how it would suck! &nbsp;Yeah he is a performer and yeah that is his job, BUT..... haven't you ever made a mistake at work? It is all the same in the realm of things, this is his job, and he was going though what to him was horrible personal issues and HE SCREWED UP! GEEZ....... everyone screws up! So if he comes out and tears up on camera and says the actual words "I'm sorry" do you actually think it would help? HELL NO!!!!! People for some reason what his blood, want him to make up and excuse as to why this happened. &nbsp;WE all know mostly why it happened, he reached his limit, personally, physically and emotionally.... and he just chose the wrong outlet. &nbsp;So to be sued over this is ridiculous and immature and selfish! &nbsp;I know people that were there that night and you know what, they looked at it a whole hell of a lot different, and they are NOT crying the blue streak demanding money back and an apology! &nbsp;What the hell good is an apology going to do 9 months later? Sorry I know this is going to piss off a lot of people but oh well, it is the way I feel and bottom line is IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :peace: </b>

Very well said, Jen!!:clap: :clap:

[JenRN]

Who knows why he opened his mouth, maybe he felt "cornered" like I said!:dunno: I just know that he probably is "getting it" not only from the fans, but the management and probably also the band. I agree he should of kept his mouth shut, but he did not, and now it stirred the pot even more. I by no means am saying what he did is right, I just know that obvioulsy he was feeling pressure from somewhere to speak out after 9 months.

[souldancer]

Originally posted by aprile89
Know what makes me want to vomit??? &nbsp;People that have their head so far up Stapps ASS they can't see the truth. He was DRUNK and put on a CRAPPY performance. There's nothing to discuss.... I don't doubt that is true. But, still seems to be a lot of discussion. And, I am sure it's a great dissappointment...and i DO know about that in life, but also about putting things into perspective. So keep doing your discussing - I think I am done with this thread.

[ZION1010]

Rock on And Iook Away Peace

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by JenRN
<b>Who knows why he opened his mouth, maybe he felt "cornered" like I said!:dunno: I just know that he probably is "getting it" not only from the fans, but the management and probably also the band. &nbsp;I agree he should of kept his mouth shut, but he did not, and now it stirred the pot even more. &nbsp;I by no means am saying what he did is right, I just know that obvioulsy he was feeling pressure from somewhere to speak out after 9 months. </b>

I agree Jen;) He had to of been pressured by someone:confused: I personally think he shouldn't of said anything either:eek: Why he did though who knows:dunno:

[velocityidp]

I don't think a lot of you understand why those of us at Chicago are still talking about this...

It's not about the performance at all. It's not about the money at all. It's not about the experience. It's not about the dumb lawsuit.

It's about the issue of respect for fans. To this date, Chicago concert-goers have gotten nothing but disrespect from Stapp and patronizing statements from his management on multiple occasions -- the last of which occurred only a few weeks ago.

So please, even if you don't want to talk about this issue any longer, understand that the primary issue is minimal respect for fans.

[Julbright]

I think whomever said it above was correct - be done with this thread if you don't want to talk about it anymore! We who were there obviously are still working it out in our own time. We are the ones who were "hurt" by it all and we will decide when we are ready to move on. I am amused at how many people keep coming back just to tell us to be quiet. There are so many other threads - lets us process this among ourselves in peace. I find it frustrating that so many of you are able to just write it off because he is a celebrity, he is gifted and talented, and he is gorgeous. BUT if that is how you would choose to go on with your life I will not judge or criticize that. I can't speak for others, but my goal here is to share my experience with others who understand - not to change the minds of those who have chosen to focus on only the positive stuff. SO, let me do my whining with others who were there and stop telling me to get on with it. Thank you very much.

AND just one more thing - yes I would feel MUCH better if he looked sqaure at the camera and admitted he was wrong - that would make a world of difference for me. His ludicrous responses thus far just rub salts in the wounds. I would like to see him behave consistently with what he had created his image to be. No one is perfect - not even him - but for all of us the important thing is dealing with our imperfections with integrity and honor. That is what I expect from him - didn't happen.

OK I'm done

[JenRN]

Well no one here said to STOP talking about it. You all get your panties in a knot when someone does not agree with you:rolleyes: Go ahead talk to your hearts content but please try to realize that there are OTHER things here to discuss! It seems that there are so many other things in life to worry about other than this don't you think? So yeah I can take a hint those who did not go to the show and who don't dwell on this are not welcome here in this thread. I never once said he is above anyone or did not wrong, you all seem to ignore that fact. I just think enough is enough already! So go on discuss to your hearts content! Yeah I am SO done here too!:ignore:

[aprile89]

:wtf: :rolleyes: If ya don't like talkin about it go to another thread...it's real simple no one is making you read these posts. All I am doing is venting.... nothing more... nothing less :wtf:

[Julbright]

I didn't mean to offend anyone or tell them that they weren't welcome here - and I don't think my panties are in a bunch! I am not the one with extremely animated postings and shouting and red faces. Nonetheless, it could possibly seem that we are collectively argumentative. Perhaps that is becuase we are being challenged on what we believe in. I am totally content with agreeing to disagree. If I hadn't seen this show live and in person I might possibly be on the other side of the fence. I guess my stance on this thread though is if it bothers someone that we are talking about it - then this may not be the thread for you. And I do resent being lumped together - we all have similar opinions on the matter and I am extrememly annoyed by the whole thing, but as I said before my agenda is to vent and comiserate with my fellow disappointees - not to change the minds of those whose perspective differs from mine. Therefore, I have no reason to really get my panties in a bunch. Please stick around if you like - but don't shout at me. thanks :)

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by Julbright
I just want to reiterate that Chicago IS a big deal because it has shaken up all of what I thought Scott Stapp stood for, it is BECAUSE WE CARE about Scott and understand his character that we are concerned - I'm sorry, but I didn't see the big "S" on the front of his shirt. People here accuse some of putting Scott and the band on a pedastal, and you just proved that true. What is it that you thought he stood for? Truth, justice and the American way? He's a man, nothing more nothing less.

understand that the primary issue is minimal respect for fans. Ok, so what exactly are you demanding? Didn't the fact that they showed up and put on one hell of a show the other 364 days last year show any respect for the fans? If you get an apology, some will be happy, some won't. You will never get an admission of any wrongdoing because that would open a pandora's box of trouble. What is it that you are seeking?

[velocityidp]

Ok, so what exactly are you demanding? Didn't the fact that they showed up and put on one hell of a show the other 364 days last year show any respect for the fans?
Oh come now... you know as well as I do that true nature shows through when trouble comes about. To their credit, they have respected fans in the past when their shows were sub-par due to vocal or technical problems.

But why did Creed essentially say "screw you" to Chicago, and then continue to patronize and lie to them? I don't get it.

If you get an apology, some will be happy, some won't.
Apologizing is the right thing to due, not to mention the minimal standard of decency.

You will never get an admission of any wrongdoing because that would open a pandora's box of trouble. What is it that you are seeking?
I'd like to see an apology occur. That would be nice, but I know it's not going to happen; Scott's already dug such a deep hole for himself that's he's going to have to continue to lie.

I'd have to say that the pandora's box of trouble has already been opened. Had Creed AT LEAST issued a personal appology, none of this stuff would have happened. Again, it's a matter of respect. Fans don't like being disrespected and lied to, and some of them will respond by taking "legal" action.

I don't agree w/ the lawsuit, but hey, what did Creed expect? You should treat others as you would have them treat yourself.... it's as simple as that.

[ZION1010]

why would you have to tell that you our sorry for something you did not DO

[velocityidp]

Originally posted by ZION1010
why &nbsp;would &nbsp; you &nbsp;have &nbsp;to &nbsp;tell &nbsp;that &nbsp;you &nbsp;our &nbsp;sorry &nbsp;for &nbsp;something &nbsp;you &nbsp;did &nbsp;not DO

Hmm... may I ask how old you are zion? About 15-20,000 fans can tell you he was highly intoxicated that night during that performance.

[Julbright]

Whew - I am certainly starting to see how one can be sucked into a debate around here - wow!

1. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior (I borrowed the wording from Dr Phil but as a licensed clinical professional counselor - I believe that to be true)

2. Every other Creed concert was incredible wonderful outstanding.

3. On a few occassions, due to voice issues BEYOND STAPP'S CONTROL, he determined his performance did not live up to HIS standards, and OUT OF RESPECT FOR THOSE FANS - he repeated a show for them.

4. On one occassion in Chicago, due to circumstances COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY WITHIN HIS CONTROL, his performance did not live up to what were previously defined as his own standards and the BARE MINIMUN Expectations for the 15,000 fans (we would have liked him to sing more than one song start to finish - I think he only made it through WAWO without fail)

5. This is also a man who writes song after song about respecting others and accepting responsibility for your life (My Own Prison - excellent example)

THEREFORE - those of us in Chicago who were actually there and know what we saw - based on Scott's past behavior - completely expected he would accept responsibility for his actions and show us the same respect he has shown other venues. I can honeslty say I walked out of there completely assured that we would get a repeat show - I even had my friend hang on to her ticket and warned my husband on the phone that I would be taking another road trip for the make up show. I had no doubts.

THEN - Silence was disappointing. Letter from management minimizing the whole thing was annoying. Continued silence was again disappointing but I was getting over the whole thing. The lawsuit was also diappointing to me- I do not agree with it. (Quite frankly if he is forced by the court to do anything that would not make me feel better. Has to come from him). THEN THEN THEN - he speaks. He insults me calling me a liar and someone interested in attacking his character. Now I am angry. AND I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE.

He is not Superman. But he is a man who by his past actions, lyrics and interviews struck me as someone who would do the right thing. I listen to Faceless Man when I need reminding - He looked me right in the eye direct and consise to remind me - to always do what's right!

I have sufficient grounds, then, to be disappointed in him. It is hard to forgive someone who acts as if they did nothing wrong. I will because it is the right thing to do - but it is totally hard.

And I guarantee that if this situation occurred in someone's personal lives with someone you knew personally - you would feel the same way. Scott is getting consideration from others simply because he is a celebrity.

[SCOTTSMYMAN]

Haven't we all covered this topic enough. It happened. Can't go back and change it and Scott should have never opened his mouth. It has been 9 months and I hate to say it but the apology that you all after may never happen! The respect you are looking for is gone. I have never really bothered to post in here because I wasn't there so I don't know how bad it actually was. I'm sorry that it sucked and that the NYE show which I was at, was so good. You guys got the short end of the stick and that shouldn't have happened. Now move on.

[Julbright]

Originally posted by SCOTTSMYMAN
You guys got the short end of the stick and that shouldn't have happened.

Thank you. This is all we are saying.

[Julbright]

I have spent a lot of time on these boards this week and as I review my postings I just want to say that you all have been so welcoming to me and I want to make sure I haven't offended anyone. The tone of conversation gets lost in electronic communication and I just want you all to know that I have not been truly insulted or put off by any of the debate here.

We are all here because we love Creed and as I do. I had one bad experience but that doesn't ruin everything! It changes some things but it is no different than being married for a couple years and the reality sets in that your spouse isn't perfect. That is where I am at.

Provided there are no more press releases, I will likely not speak on this topic anymore, unless I am just in the mood to comiserate with my fellow Chicago-goers. I don't want to seem argumentative with all you nice people simply because we disagree on this topic. Thanks! :hugs:

[Dogstar]

Originally posted by velocityidp
<b>I never said that... and I don't think that. I was trying to make an "academic" point and nothing more.</b>

I never said you said it. I said I resented the implication, which came through in the *writing off* comment. Sometimes the intent or meaning can get lost in the electronic translation, without the body language, tone and visuals you'd have in a face-to-face debate.

And to the some of the others who seem to think that just because we weren't there, we can't have an opinion, too bad!

Believe me, you all have made it perfectly clear what happened, and I felt as if I was there from all the discussion and description. And if you all want to commiserate, that's fine, but don't tell me or any other member of this board that we're not entitled to speak about this simply because we weren't there. THIS IS A FORUM, where ALL opinions are supposed to be welcome. This isn't supposed to be exclusionary. There's enough of that kind of crap going on at other Creed boards. That's why I like this one because there aren't these childish little cliques and competition going on.

For the record, as I have stated umpteen gazillion times, I don't agree with what he did in Chicago or the comments he has made since, however you want to put it. I do agree with souldancer and others who understand and accept that he is HUMAN, that he fucked up, that shit happens, and that people will disappoint the hell out of you sometimes.

[Sheila63]

Originally posted by Julbright
I have spent a lot of time on these boards this week and as I review my postings I just want to say that you all have been so welcoming to me and I want to make sure I haven't offended anyone. &nbsp;The tone of conversation gets lost in electronic communication and I just want you all to know that I have not been truly insulted or put off by any of the debate here. &nbsp;

We are all here because we love Creed and as I do. &nbsp;I had one bad experience but that doesn't ruin everything! &nbsp;It changes some things but it is no different than being married for a couple years and the reality sets in that your spouse isn't perfect. &nbsp;That is where I am at. &nbsp;

Provided there are no more press releases, I will likely not speak on this topic anymore, unless I am just in the mood to comiserate with my fellow Chicago-goers. &nbsp;I don't want to seem argumentative with all you nice people simply because we disagree on this topic. &nbsp;Thanks! :hugs:

Speaking for myself, you haven't offended me, Julbright. I believe everyone has a right to their opinion/feelings whether I agree or disagree with them. Where some topics are concerned, people have to agree to disagree and that's okay.:)

[JenRN]

Originally posted by Dogstar
I never said you said it. I said I resented the implication, which came through in the *writing off* comment. Sometimes the intent or meaning can get lost in the electronic translation, without the body language, tone and visuals you'd have in a face-to-face debate.

And to the some of the others who seem to think that just because we weren't there, we can't have an opinion, too bad!

Believe me, you all have made it perfectly clear what happened, and I felt as if I was there from all the discussion and description. And if you all want to commiserate, that's fine, but don't tell me or any other member of this board that we're not entitled to speak about this simply because we weren't there. THIS IS A FORUM, where ALL opinions are supposed to be welcome. This isn't supposed to be exclusionary. There's enough of that kind of crap going on at other Creed boards. That's why I like this one because there aren't these childish little cliques and competition going on.

For the record, as I have stated umpteen gazillion times, I don't agree with what he did in Chicago or the comments he has made since, however you want to put it. I do agree with souldancer and others who understand and accept that he is HUMAN, that he fucked up, that shit happens, and that people will disappoint the hell out of you sometimes.

As usual you are the woman who always know how to put things in words!!!!:clap:

[Julbright]

Originally posted by Sheila63
Speaking for myself, you haven't offended me, Julbright. &nbsp;I believe everyone has a right to their opinion/feelings whether I agree or disagree with them. &nbsp;Where some topics are concerned, people have to agree to disagree and that's okay.:)

Thanks for your kind words. It is nice to know that I am able to say what is on my mind and not be bashed for it. I felt myself tending toward defensiveness and that isn't who I am or why I come here. It is just interesting for me to share my stuff because I don't know anyone else around here who went to the concert and for ME it helps to talk to people who shared my experience (it is called seeking validation). Others have opinions which I am very interested in listening to , but I really am not here to debate. Just to comiserate. That's all. So, I'm chillin' :cool:

I do visit other threads and am capable of talking about other stuff too! I swear! :D

[JulieCitySlicker]

I agree with Sheila:angel: Everyone has the right to their own opinion wether we all agree or not;) I'm not offended by anything said here or anyone here either:)

[Yvonne]

Here we go again......

Why did Stapp even say anything about the Chicago show, and why the heck did he wait until July???.....goodness gracious, please do not insult me by denying the fact that something was WRONG!!! I was there, I saw him and the minute he opened his mouth to sing I knew something was wrong with him. I don't know if he was drunk, over-medicated or what????

The lawsuit is going a little over-board, as I've said before I wish I could sue the people who made that ridiculous movie(s) Charlie's Angels.....but those are the chances you take--you just never know what you're gonna get. BUT to say the allegations are lies is a lie....something was wrong with him. No one is questioning his character, or slamming the band.....hey, if you screwed up-admit it and move on that's what character is really about, but please do not insult me with that bunk-ass statement...he needs to just keep his mouth shut!!!

[ZION1010]

ACTS CH 19 VERSE AND WHEN THEY HEARD THEESE SAYING THEY WERE FILLED WITH WRATH AND CONFUSION >>.ECC CH12>>ALSO WHEN THAY SHALL BE AFRAID OF THAT WHICH IS HIGH AND FEARS SHALL BE N THE WAY

[SCOTTSMYMAN]

No offense Zion but you really got to stop quoting scripture where it is not needed or wanted. Go to the faith /Religion threads for that!

[TeriB19]

Yes it is getting a bit annoying.

[velocityidp]

Originally posted by ZION1010
ACTS &nbsp;CH &nbsp;19 &nbsp;VERSE &nbsp;AND WHEN &nbsp;THEY &nbsp;HEARD THEESE &nbsp;SAYING &nbsp;THEY &nbsp;WERE FILLED &nbsp;WITH &nbsp;WRATH &nbsp;AND &nbsp;CONFUSION >>.ECC CH12>>ALSO WHEN THAY SHALL BE AFRAID OF THAT WHICH &nbsp;IS HIGH AND FEARS SHALL BE N THE WAY

1) Scripture is not really needed at this stage in the discussion
2) If you're going to quote scripture, be sure it applies to the conversation at hand. Nobody has any clue what you're trying to articulate.
3) If you quote scripture, be sure you spell it all correctly. ALL CAPS IS NOT NECESSARY.
4) Be wary of sounding preachy and aloof. These are not Christ-like values.

If you continue to randomly quote scripture across the entire board -- as it appears you are doing since you have had 122 posts in less than a month -- one can only assume you're trying to deviantly shove random Bible quotes down people's throats. If this is the case, you'll probably be banned.

As I assume you profess to be a Christian, you should know those methods are not worthy. And as a Christian myself, I have the obligation to confront you on this issue. Please do reply. I've attempted to contact you privately, so I had no other choice but to post this message.

[aprile89]

Originally posted by ZION1010
ACTS &nbsp;CH &nbsp;19 &nbsp;VERSE &nbsp;AND WHEN &nbsp;THEY &nbsp;HEARD THEESE &nbsp;SAYING &nbsp;THEY &nbsp;WERE FILLED &nbsp;WITH &nbsp;WRATH &nbsp;AND &nbsp;CONFUSION >>.ECC CH12>>ALSO WHEN THAY SHALL BE AFRAID OF THAT WHICH &nbsp;IS HIGH AND FEARS SHALL BE N THE WAY

Zion, What you have quoted from the Bible has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about..... I don't konw if your new to Chriatianity (sp?) or what... but the verse you quoted in Acts was about Jews invoking evils spirits from people they thought were posessed......

Ok? now what the heck does that have to do wtih Stapp and Chicago...??? I can't tell what that second book of the Bible is supposed to be... there are a few that it COULD be ......

[Yvonne]

Zion......being a christian myself I appreciate your passion for the heavenlies but I have to agree with the others, knock it off with the scriptures. Every now and then it's okay, but not ALL the time. :) :)

[ZION1010]

I KNOW

[Julbright]

OK OK OK _ I am NOT seeking to bring in the dead horse and start beating it again, but I just had this thought - AND PLEASE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT PLEASE DON'T BEAT ME UP ABOUT IT - IT IS SOMETHING I WANT TO COMMENT ON SO LET ME BE!!! ;)


I think the court date is in September for this lawsuit (which remember I do NOT agree with) and I got to thinking - the best course of action at this point would be that they settle out of court. They should just commit to kick of the next tour in Chicago (when they are fresh and energized) - do two shows there - one of which will be a complimentary show for those who were ticketholders for the bad show. They should issue a statement that says they have revisited the issue and they have decided on their own accord to do this because so many of their fans are disappointed and they want to resolve those feelings. They wouldn't even really have to admit that anything was wrong. I think most of us would be cool with that since what we really wanted was a rocking show. And if they were already in CHicago and all that would cut down on their costs etc. That is the only win/win situation I see.

[SCOTTSMYMAN]

I think that's reasonable Julbright and probably a good idea. Don't worry nobody will beat you up about it (I hope).
:stapp: :tremonti: :flip:

[Sheila63]

I think that's a good idea too, Julbright.:)

[Jez]

They should issue a statement that says they have revisited the issue and they have decided on their own accord to do this because so many of their fans are disappointed and they want to resolve those feelings. They wouldn't even really have to admit that anything was wrong.

The only thing is.....by settling, it will be seen by alot of people as an admission of guilt, and the press will have a field day with it....eventually that could bite them in the ass.
I think they should stick to their guns and follow this thing through. The whole idea of suing for a bad performance is just a load of crap anyway.

I can't see them opening in chicago...lol

[aprile89]

Well all I know is I still have my Ticket Stub in hopes Something happens.. if not then OH WELL .. but to me that would be a GREAT idea Julbright .. but I have to Agree with Jez ..
Chances of this happening is slim to none .... If they admitt guilt *which I KNOW they are* then the press will have a field day which could ultimatly hurt their careers rather than 15,000 unhappy fans :rolleyes:

[Julbright]

The irritating thing is SO WHAT IF HE WAS DRUNK!!! We know he drinks sometimes and if anything this just proves that he is a lightweight and isn't used to drinking like that. Yes it would be a field day in the press but they have that on most issues anyway. The press will find a way to twist it and make them the bad guys no matter what so they should make the first move. I am just to idealistic for the real world I guess. And Aprile, I too have my stub in a safe place - you and I will meet for a drink WHEN they replay our show!!!!!!! :)

[Jez]

We know he drinks sometimes and if anything this just proves that he is a lightweight and isn't used to drinking like that.

I'm sorry, Julbright.....no disrespect intended here but I'm LMAO at this.

eta: I can tell just by reading the fifteen to tweny posts that I have seen of yours that you have an extremely sunny disposition, and by your own admition, you're very idealistic. Not a bad thing, but not everything is all rosy, as much as I'd like it to be.

eta again:

I've been reading the past six pages just now, and I think that I'm going to regret ever having responded. This could go on and on forever, but in reality....is all this arguing (debating if you choose to call it that) really productive?

[TeriB19]

In the big scheme of it all, really, who cares?

[Jez]

Originally posted by TeriB19
In the big scheme of it all, really, who cares?

yup.....so true

[Dogstar]

Yep, I've said it before and I'll say it again..It was just a friggin' concert!

[JenRN]

Originally posted by Dogstar
Yep, I've said it before and I'll say it again..It was just a friggin' concert!
I feel the same way!

[Julbright]

No disrespect taken - I generally am being somewhat humorous in my posts so I am glad you got a chuckle.

And like I said I am not interested in beating a dead horse, I am looking to the future in the hopes that this gets handled with the least bit of integrity. I think Velocity started this thread merely to get a feel for people's response, but also those of us who went to Chicago like to talk about it together. This is why I asked for people not to hassle me about posting here again -

And, really, is anything that we talk about/argue about/debate about here really productive? :confused: Name games and fantasies? It is just a way to pass time, have fun and share ideas with people who have similar interests (most likely Creed in this case). When I want to talk about other stuff, I talk to other people, or go to other threads! When I am here, I talk about Creed, in this thread I talk about Chicago.

As I sit here and write this, too, I am thinking that for those of us who aren't over it yet this is productive because it helps us work it out. I am a therapist by profession so I will always argue in favor of talking it out and the benefits of processing things in groups. It could be perceived as whining if we never move forward, so I am trying to look to the future. And since being "here" is fun time for me, I am presenting my ideal resolution. Doesn't mean it will happen or that it is totally realistic. But that is why I come here sometimes ! :)

[Jez]

I've been away from the board for a few hours now, and was hesitant to look back in here because I thought I might have some harsh words directed at me.....couldn't believe it when I came back and there was nothing to cringe at. I just hae to say......
I really like you girls!!

[velocityidp]

hey....


<--- male

[Jez]

:P

LOL.....sorry!

[TeriB19]

Nah, we only bash the bashers and trolls.:)

[Julbright]

No, Jez, you only get bashed if you are "complaining" about Chicago ! :lolsign: KIDDING! :wiggle:

That is why I love it here - people for the most part seem to realize that we all have different opinions and while I might agree with a person on one topic, we stand in completely different places on another topic. And that is cool with me!

My posting in this thread is therapeutic for me, I am not out to change the minds of the masses, especially if they weren't at the show. I know that is impossible. I just like to whine sometimes and I think that is probably appropriate in this thread, since I know velocity started it and he and I and a few others who post here are on the same page about this issue.

SOOOO no bashing here!

[Julbright]

Originally posted by TeriB19
In the big scheme of it all, really, who cares?

Well, I do I guess. In the big picture of my life this is not going to make or break me. But in the realm of Creed, it is pretty important to me. Like I said before no one has to agree with me, honest! That doesn't bother me one bit. I still like talking about it - it has helped me feel better about the whole thing actually - and I only talk about it in appropriate threads. So I was hoping to not get any backlash this time. I am not looking to open any can of worms. :hugs:

I just had a thought and I put it out there.

[Julbright]

A few last things that have been stuck in my head -

I want to clarify I do NOT agree with the lawsuit and I think that although the facts would indicate otherwise that Creed will eventually win because no court is going to set that kind of precedent in the entertainment industry.

I do not think that Scott passed out at the concert - he did lay down but I never thought he actually passed out.

I would like to see them take the lead here and be proactive in this case, and although it is unlikely because of the mess it would cause, I can still hold that opinion.

[TremontiPRS17]

Velocity......I am getting the impression that you are against stapp on this. I just wanna say....do you people know how many lead singers pass out on stage??? Why is stapps a big deal? Hell...if the man wants to get drunk ......let him...hes SCOTT STAPP ..he can do whatever the hell he wants...because his albums are still in my cd players. I have a band and i absolutely idolize this man.....(no to mention tremonti). So if they continue to make great music ....I could give a shit if the man passed out.....Even if i was at the concert in Chicago....I would be like "hell yes!.....Scott Stapp just passed out...."!! And i am no drunk either..........Anyone agree???

[ZION1010]

Originally posted by TremontiPRS17
<b>Velocity......I am getting the impression that you are against stapp on this. &nbsp;I just wanna say....do you people know how many lead singers pass out on stage??? Why is stapps a big deal? Hell...if the man wants to get drunk ......let him...hes SCOTT STAPP ..he can do whatever the hell he wants...because his albums are still in my cd players. &nbsp;I have a band and i absolutely idolize this man.....(no to mention tremonti). &nbsp;So if they continue to make great music ....I could give a shit if the man passed out.....Even if i was at the concert in Chicago....I would be like "hell yes!.....Scott Stapp just passed out...."!! And i am no drunk either..........Anyone agree??? </b> I Agree But ive Replyed Here lots a Times And You know Like You Said Its Not A big deal if A singer passes out On Stage From The Gen . i Grew Up In This Was very Common But I Belive He Was not Any Time Drunk And Why our they Coming Down So Hard Ill Tell You Creed Is One Of The Few Bands Out There Today That truly Care About Their Fans And It Shows People Take Advantge of A good Thing And Just N my opinon Start A Thread that Says Wow Its time To Close This One GOD Bless

[Dogstar]

I'm all for closing this... I mean, hell, it's nine months already...Let it go...

[TeriB19]

Me too, enough already.:deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

[Julbright]

Well, since everyone is being so direct in their opinoins, I will too. Let me put it this way, if it were me, and I saw that there was a new post in a thread - the topic of which I didn't care to hear about any more - I would not click on the thread and keeping reading and responding to it.

I am entitled to my feelings and my opinions and while I don't want agreement from everyone, a little acceptance or repsect would be nice.

It has only been ONE month since he came out and said something that started this all over again for me. And technically it isn't over yet because there a court case hanging out there - again that I do not agree with - but it is out there. Everyone cares so much about Creed but no one seems to want to talk about this HUGE thing that is hanging out there for them. This has got to be on their minds as the time approaches. It is on my mind in the way of concern for them and what the result will be.

And if you will all take notice, please, I have refrained from going back over the details of it all, I am trying to look to the future and conjecture about what would be a good resolution to the lawsuit. If no one wants to talk about that - that's fine - I will take the hint - but all the replies are just being kinda rude to me about the whole thing. Geesh.

I would like to respect all your opinions and I am containing my opinions on this topic to this thread. Please show the same respect to me as I have shown to all of you. Thanks.

[Dogstar]

No one is being rude to you. They, like you, are expressing their opinions. This is a discussion board, and that's all people are doing, discussing. No one's disrespecting anyone, calling anyone names or attacking anyone personally here. Some simply don't agree with you, that's all, and they're saying so.

BTW...You're package is going on the mail today, so be on the lookout for it in the next few days :).

[Julbright]

Originally posted by Dogstar
No one is being rude to you. They, like you, are expressing their opinions. This is a discussion board, and that's all people are doing, discussing. No one's disrespecting anyone, calling anyone names or attacking anyone personally here. Some simply don't agree with you, that's all, and they're saying so.

Thanks for clarifying that - I am all for people's opinions - I just get the feeling that I shouldn't say anything about it anymore and I agree with you that that is not what a discussion board is about. Anyway - I dont' really have anything new to say about it at this point so I guess I am done with it. :cool:


Originally posted by Dogstar
BTW...You're package is going on the mail today, so be on the lookout for it in the next few days :).


:bounce: REALLY???? YOU ARE REALLY THE COOLEST !!!! That is SOOOOO exciting!!!! This has been a rough week with the sinus infection and the little one starting school and my hubbie gone again - I could use some cheer! I really appreciate you - that was so great! :dancing: :bigjump:

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by Julbright

I am entitled to my feelings and my opinions and while I don't want agreement from everyone, a little acceptance or repsect would be nice. &nbsp; No one is disrespecting you.

[b] Everyone cares so much about Creed but no one seems to want to talk about this HUGE thing that is hanging out there for them. &nbsp;This has got to be on their minds as the time approaches. </b> No one wants to talk about it because the topic has been talked to death.

No disrespect to you Julbright, but frankly, the majority of us are just tired of the lawsuit and the Chicago concert debacle.

[Dogstar]

Yep, I'm going to mail it on my way to work later! I hope you are feeling better. Sinus infections are sooooo nasty.