Heaven at all?

[StappsSaviour]

i wanna kno wot ppls views on the Heaven Earth thing
and give reason plz!

[StappsSaviour]

i mean wot ur views on the Heaven/Earths thing are
coz i dnt believe in Heaven

[Siana]

ok,what's Heaven aside from the Bible?I feel in Heaven when i'm happy,when my family and friends are fine and all are doing well.
Heaven can be simply the lack of problems too

[StappsSaviour]

i mean do u believe in it and y...
i personally dnt believe in Heaven, as in the blble Heaven thing
its silly to think that u go somewhere after u die
of corse u go under the ground but ppl think that they go to a special place that is suppossed to b some paradise made for the believers of God and his Son Jesus Christ
thats wot i mean

[StrubesGuitar]

Ok, first, do u believe God is omnipresent and all-powerful, and His Son is Jesus Christ?
Second, do u believe the Bible is true in every way?
Third, do believe IN God and do you believe Him in His promise?
Email me.

[StrubesGuitar]

I believe in it because God says it is there. I have that faith. Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us: Heaven. Just reading throughout the New Testament gives proof. But if you want physical proof, that has to be acquired by faith. Where do u think you go? Other religions believe in Heaven, but differently. They believe that they need to do works in order to get there, i.e., pray this many times, walk this far, go on a pilgrimage, etc. It is also written that there is a heaven AND a hell. So if u believe there is a hell and you believe the Bible, it must be believed that there is a heaven. But it still is a matter of faith. Ask God to show you what He's all about. In His time he will reveal Himself to you. "Seek and you shall find, knock, and the door will be opened to you." Pray about it. He's offering something amazing.

[Bridge of Clay]

ditto

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by StrubesGuitar
<b>I believe in it because God says it is there. I have that faith. Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us: Heaven. Just reading throughout the New Testament gives proof. But if you want physical proof, that has to be acquired by faith. Where do u think you go? Other religions believe in Heaven, but differently. They believe that they need to do works in order to get there, i.e., pray this many times, walk this far, go on a pilgrimage, etc. It is also written that there is a heaven AND a hell. So if u believe there is a hell and you believe the Bible, it must be believed that there is a heaven. But it still is a matter of faith. Ask God to show you what He's all about. In His time he will reveal Himself to you. "Seek and you shall find, knock, and the door will be opened to you." Pray about it. He's offering something amazing. </b> That was very well stated:angel: I believe in all that you have said:P

[StappsSaviour]

but the thing is...
oh i dunno
i dnt believe in everything that the bible says no
i believe that there is no god
no promises to me...
i have prayed b4 tho, nothin has happened

[Bridge of Clay]

God has His own time.

How much faith did you put on that prayer? Sometimes He just doesn´t answer our prayers coz it´s not supposed to be to our good.

Believing in the Bible is a matter of faith. You can´t believe only in parts of it... it´s like having no faith at all.

[DangerousDan85]

"I don't need no one to tell me about heaven, i look at my daughter and I believe "

(sorry that stupid song is on the radio right now)

[StrubesGuitar]

Well, when u pray, it's not like BOOM! HERE'S THE ANSWER! u have to patient. I suggest u read the CASE FOR CHRIST by Lee Strobel. He used to be an atheist, but, as a reporter, he went and investigated Scripture and History. It's very interesting, but i suggest u get the student version so it doesn't take forever!

[StrubesGuitar]

And puttin an amount of "faith" in a prayer won't do anything for the outcome, just talk to Him like ur talkin to ur best friend.

[StrubesGuitar]

What do u believe is out there after death?

[Bridge of Clay]

Strubes, I agree! The "ammount" of faith was a bad statement...

[StappsSaviour]

like u said strubs, i did do it like i was talkin to my best mate, in actual fact i was talking 4 so long that i almost forget to say amen!!!
i said alot, and i mean alot on only 4 diff things
life after death???
we get reborn
u see, i believe in Evolution as well as other things
but the one thing that i dont believe in is GOD!!!
and srry if i av offened any1 by sayin that but that is just me:)

[StrubesGuitar]

Well, u did make a good point about the reborn and life after death thing. Life after death is again, a faith issue. Being reborn is more a renewing of the mind, the Bible uses many similes and metaphors. There is actually a whole passage in the Bible devoted to being reborn. Jesus says it's a giving birth of the Spirit. I know that's confusing, but it's basically a renewing of the mind. Why don't u believe in God? U didn't just pray to no one for however long u did. Ask God to reveal himself to you. He will in time. Ask and you shall receive, knock and the door will be opened to you. He's waiting behind that door, just knock on it.

[MrSeeker]

"Seek and ye shall find"

[DangerousDan85]

bueno gusto

[StappsSaviour]

u ask y i dnt believe in god???
wot proof of His being is there?
u may say that u av to believe in him first but how can i believe wen i see no reason to???
that is a rhehetorical question, if u dnt get it...

[mel!ssa]

i think he's just asking, why did you pray to him for so long if you don't even believe in him. I'm not saying that's wrong or anything, just i think that's what he's asking.

Don't apologise, you haven't offended anyone. Stating your opinion, what you believe, isn't an offence! It's just that SOME people get offended if what you believe isn't the same as what they believe... (no-one here!)

Me, I believe that there is a heaven, where God and Jesus and the angels live, where a select few go to after death. I don't believe there is a hell (show me that scripture that says there must be a hell...) and I believe that when we die, we lie in the ground and decompose and know nothing, no separate part of us flies off to live somewhere else, we just lie there and do nothing...until God decides sometime in the future that we can live on the earth again.

[StrubesGuitar]

THAT'S REINCARNATION! If you believe in the Bible, you have to believe there is a hell, cause the Bible says there is hell. In Psalms 9:17, 16:10, 18:5, Proverbs 15:24, 23:14, Isaiah 14:15
Ezekiel 31:16-17, 32:21,27, Matthew 5:29, 16:18, 18:9, 23:33, Mark 9:43-47, Revelation 6:8, 20:13-14. In actuality, when we die, if we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, we will be saved and go to heaven:that is what we are promised. But if we don't we go to hell and burn and toil FOREVER. Of course our bodies rot in the ground forever, but our spirits are lifted to heaven to dwell w/HIM FOREVER! So just check it out. And i love that movie! : "By the way...thanks for the free parking!"

[mysacrifice411]

I think it's just a matter between you and God. If you pray with real intent, with faith that you will receive an answer, and your mind isn't full of doubt, I'm very confident you will receive an answer. I think you should also read the Bible (or as much as possible), and decide if you believe it, and if not, why not?

Sometimes people can be quite pessimistic (and with all the crap in the world, I can't say I blame them.). They often look at the world and say, "What evidence is there for me to believe in God?" But I say, "What evidence is there for me NOT to believe in God?" There seems to be too many coincidences for me to believe we are left on our own.... Just ask, and you will receive. :)

[JulieCitySlicker]

I believe there is a heaven and a hell. In the bible hell is discribed as a firey pit and those who deny God will end up there:eek:

[creedfan47a]

Originally posted by StrubesGuitar
<b>THAT'S REINCARNATION! If you believe in the Bible, you have to believe there is a hell, cause the Bible says there is hell. In Psalms 9:17, 16:10, 18:5, Proverbs 15:24, 23:14, Isaiah 14:15
Ezekiel 31:16-17, 32:21,27, Matthew 5:29, 16:18, 18:9, 23:33, Mark 9:43-47, Revelation 6:8, 20:13-14. In actuality, when we die, if we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, we will be saved and go to heaven:that is what we are promised. But if we don't we go to hell and burn and toil FOREVER. Of course our bodies rot in the ground forever, but our spirits are lifted to heaven to dwell w/HIM FOREVER! So just check it out. And i love that movie! : "By the way...thanks for the free parking!" </b>

Mel!ssa was not talking about reincarnation (I know, she's my sister). She's talking about resurrection - being brought back to life by God, not being brought back as another living being, but as yourself. The Bible does not say there is a hell. There is no fiery pit that bad people burn in forever.

Like Melissa, I don't believe that all good people (or, their spirits) go to heaven, nor do bad people, or their spirits, go to hell.

[creedgirl99]

I agree....if you don't mind me asking-what religion are you? (If you don't want to say here you don't have to....)

[creedfan47a]

It's okay, I answered your PM. ;)

[StrubesGuitar]

Ok, in the end there's no such thing as "good" and "bad" people, it's saved and non-saved. What religion ARE you???? All those references say hell and refer to THE hell.

[creedfan47a]

Well, what religion are you?? ;)

[StrubesGuitar]

I am a Christian, didn't u check those references? That's what i asked u.

[souldancer]

I think of heaven as...
a state of mind - like the perfect openess and trust that young children have...and
a state of feeling that is the 'peace inside us all'. Perfect oneness and bliss. Attainable and something to endlessly move towards...

[TeriB19]

Heaven? Being stuck inside a vat of chocolate mousse armed with an appetite and a spoon.

[StappsSaviour]

Like Melissa, I don't believe that all good people (or, their spirits) go to heaven, nor do bad people, or their spirits, go to hell. [/B][/QUOTE]

see?

this is wot i was tryin to say

how eva u would like to put it... good and bad, saved and unsaved or even believers and non-believers!!!

at least sum1 understands wot i am tryin to say!

[StrubesGuitar]

There's a difference. Jesus clearly says, " I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me." Believe on Christ and you will be saved. Many people are good, many people are bad, but if that is all they are, they are not saved, therefore:they will not go to heaven. I know it sounds cruel and heartless, but you could just believe on Him and not have to worry about it. But "good" and "bad" people go to heaven, as long as they believe on Him. Stappssaviour, i bet you are a good person, and about everybody else here. But "bad" people who do go to heaven are like Ted Bundy, the mass murderer/rapist, he became a believer after his imprisonment, and talked w/Dr. Dobson before his execution. See?

[bgivens33]

What about Ghandi? He never claimed to believe in Jesus as the savior... is he going to hell?

[StappsSaviour]

EXACTLY!

mind u i dont believe there is a hell either aye so yea

its hard for u to explain such terms to a " Non-Believer"....such as me

[StrubesGuitar]

I guess Ghandi is. Doesn't matter how "good" u are. Sure, he was cool, he did his world peace thingy, but works can't get u anywhere. StappsSaviour, i know it sounds confusin to u, and since u are a nonbeliever, these terms sound wacky. Seek and u shall find.

[bgivens33]

But Ghandi believes in the same God as you. Is it such a stretch to think that when Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me" that he meant through my teachings and the way I lived my life?? Do you really have to say those magic words "Jesus, I accept you into my heart" to go to heaven?

[Sincirr]

John 3:16 I guess. It doesnt say His teachings, it says Him? What do U think anyways.

Isnt Ghandi Hindu? Their gods are not the same as far as I knew.

I hope God's grace was on Ghandi because he was a beautiful man, and way back when he was seeking Jesus, he was asked to leave a church because of the way he was dressed and that would leave anyones impression of Jesus distorted. It just makes me mad and I really hope that through his life, he perhaps he got to see who Jesus truly was. I'm sure some people arent going to like what I just said, but yeh...

[alive_in_Jesus]

God has made himself very real to me in life experiences....I can't deny his existance and that His word is true, so yes, I believe in heaven.

[mel!ssa]

So you believe heaven exists, yeah, but we all have different views on what its purpose is. When you say you believe in heaven, do you mean you believe we go to heaven when we die?

[Samuel]

When believers die they go to live with the Lord for eternity.Which is heaven.Amen!

[alive_in_Jesus]

Amen!

[alive_in_Jesus]

I am totally with you on the things you say Samuel!

[mel!ssa]

What's your basis for believing that? :P

[alive_in_Jesus]

With everything I've read that he's posted so far, my head has been yelling "Yes! Yes! Amen to that!"

[Samuel]

The Word of God,Melissa 1 Peter 1-11. and thank you for asking,if you are unsure always inquire.Praise God.May he help with your search.Amen!God bless!

[Lechium]

Originally posted by Samuel
When believers die they go to live with the Lord for eternity.Which is heaven.Amen!
Dont you think that being stuck anywhere for eternety is kinda boring, and borderlines prison?

[Samuel]

One day you too shall find the truth and I hope that you come to your senses before its too late.God is supreme authority and Jesus is the only way.Amen!

[Lechium]

The world is not black and white.
There is always more than one way.
Jesus can be one of them, but I choose not to follow it.

[creedfan47a]

I think the point Melissa was trying to get at, when she asked "what is your basis for believing that?", is: Why do you believe that believers go to live with the Lord for eternity when they die?

I don't know what kinda Bible you're using, Samuel, but mine says at 1 Peter 1:11: "They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these."

Can you explain why you put that verse in your post? I'm confused. :confused:

[Samuel]

Verses 1:1 - 11 NIV

[Samuel]

Also Revelation 21:1 - 9 NIV.Thanks for asking.

[creedfan47a]

Well, in my Bible, the verses in 1 Peter are talking about the small group of anointed ones who are going to heaven, but that does not include every "believer". Revelation 14:1 gives the exact number of those who are going to heaven to live as immortal spirit creatures - 144,000. And Revelation 21:1-9 talks about the new heaven (new government to rule over mankind) and new earth (righteous mankind). It does not, to me, say that all believers will go to heaven.

[Samuel]

Now go to John 3:16

[Samuel]

So therefore if you believe in God`s Son Jesus you are a believer and you shall have everlasting life.

[ZION1010]

INDEED FOR those who dont get it every knee shall bale and everey tounge confess that JESUS CHRIST IS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS

[StappsSaviour]

Originally posted by Lechium
The world is not black and white.
There is always more than one way.
Jesus can be one of them, but I choose not to follow it.

i like your way of reasoning
its very easy to understand!
and i like wot u say
its good!!!

[creedfan47a]

Originally posted by Samuel
Now go to John 3:16
Originally posted by Samuel
So therefore if you believe in God`s Son Jesus you are a believer and you shall have everlasting life.

My John 3:16 says: "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

IMO, you need to do more than just "believe in God's Son Jesus" to have everlasting life.

But, anyway, "everlasting life" does not necessarily mean eternal life in heaven, which is what you were implying when you said: "When believers die they go to live with the Lord for eternity.Which is heaven.Amen!" If you look up Psalm 37:29, it says "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." It does not say that all believers go to live in heaven forever; it says that the righteous will live on the earth forever.

[Samuel]

Do not be like the Pharisees John 6:40 do not add to what He says.Works alone will not get you into the kingdom.Believe in Him and you shall be saved.As for God living with His people Revelation 21:1-7.Thank you.

[ZION1010]

samuel good to see you post again I could comment on IT All but Im not You guys our thinking .... not again Ill Just say this To the entire book of REV >>IN HIM IS LIGHT THERE IS NO DARKNESS....You do the math BY him All things Consist JESUS ROCKS

[Samuel]

Hello zion nice to see you too,continue to preach the gospel and testimony of what He has done for you.I am looking forward to seeing you in heaven one day or, maybe even on earth.God bless!

[ZION1010]

Hay samuel I like your name by the way. What Is your Favorite Creed songs and what other bands do you listen to hello how are you Wont you tell me your name ....THE DOORS That song has been on my mind All Day>>>For A thought >>>I HAVE SENT FOURTH MY ANGELS UNTO ALL THE PARTS OF THE EARTH Visble And INVISBLE TO KEEP THEE INN ALL THY WAYS

[creedfan47a]

Originally posted by Samuel
Do not be like the Pharisees John 6:40 do not add to what He says.Works alone will not get you into the kingdom.Believe in Him and you shall be saved.As for God living with His people Revelation 21:1-7.Thank you.

What's your point? Are you saying that I'm adding to what the Bible says? Perhaps you should actually read your Bible with your eyes open. You say that God will live with his people, according to Revelations 21:3 - but it doesn't mean literally. God's place is in the heavens, so verse 3 shows that God will dwell representatively with mankind. Just as the ancient tent of meeting in the wilderness was God's place of dwelling with men, a sanctuary where they could approach him, so during Jesus' Millennial Reign, God's "tent" will again be with mankind in a much closer, more lasting and beneficial way. He will deal with mankind representatively through Jesus Christ, but will not literally "live" with humans.

[Samuel]

You have already added too much to what you have actually read.Where did God say figuratively I`m talking about all this you have added to My word creedfan47a aka arnold.Revelation 22:18-19 or is that figurative.Thank you.

[creedfan47a]

So, because I look at the Bible logically, I'm adding to it??? Seems to me you are the one adding to it because nowhere in the Bible does it say that believers go to heaven when they die, but that is what you believe and preach. And the churches today add, and take away from it, because there are so many teachings in the Bible that the churches ignore, and they also add their own teachings to suit them. Telling people that if they sin, they will go to a fiery hell to be tormented for eternity, is a surefire way of keeping them going to church. And ignoring things in the Bible to please the masses is just as bad. THANK YOU.

[Samuel]

You sound like you read what you want to think and reject what you do not like.I hope that you have found salvation in the Lord and truely seek to discover Him.Amen!

[creedfan47a]

Tell me, what have I rejected that I do not like?

[mel!ssa]

Do you believe in hell Samuel? Show me the scriptures that say all who have sinned go to hell... :rolleyes:

[Samuel]

Yes there is such thing as hell.Matthew 23:32,33. and 2 Peter 2:4 - 14.But why have to go there if you just do this Romans 10:9-13 thats all.Believe please.Thank you!

[Samuel]

Hi creedfan 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Revelation 21:8.You do not accept that God will punish sin.

[StrubesGuitar]

You guys are getting too much into the doctrine portion of this issue by the looks of it. It seems creedfan and melissa have their views and then Samuel does. I'm not sayin who's right or wrong, but this is what divides us as Christians, mere men's thoughts that are imperfect. One follows another cause they agree with that human's thoughts on the subject. Take Lutherans for example, and Calvinists, and all the other reformed views, dividing over predestination and free will, debating for hundreds of years, and still no resolve. Maybe that's a sign that God doesn't want us to know the answer to that ? till the end o' time.
We are commanded to one as a church, like the Catholics did, but they became corrupted throughtout the centuries, then came the reform.

The point is that we should read the text for what was written, go back to the original Greek for the exact translation for the New Test. and the Hebrew for the Old Test. Doctrines are just man's thoughts on what has been read. Don't do what they did back in the day.

[ZION1010]

FOR the kingdome of god is inside us and all around us HEs Everywere and everythng JESUS ROCKS

[DangerousDan85]

i'm lactose intolerant

[mel!ssa]

Originally posted by Samuel
You do not accept that God will punish sin.

Please don't tell either of us, or anyone for that matter, what they do or do not believe. We are saying that God will punish unrepentant sinners, but not by sending them to burn in hell forever and ever. I believe that they will be put to death and not given the reward that true believers receive - eternal life on earth.

As for your scriptures - I don't see what Matthew 23:32 has to do with anything. And verse 33, 'flee from the judgement of Gehenna', i assume you're saying Gehenna is hell? I don't believe that, i believe it stands for death, eternal destruction. There is no mention of eternal torment in a fiery hell.

2 Peter 2:4-14, that's talking about God not holding back judgement for those who deserve it, and as i said above, i believe God will not let these ones go unjudged.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 - the people who will not inherit God's Kingdom. I agree.

Revelation 21:8 - much the same as 2 Peter. Those deserving it will be punished, i believe the 'second death' refers to total destruction. In Revelation 20:13, 14, it says death, or hell or Hades or Sheol or Gehenna or whatever, is hurled into the lake of fire, which i think you were saying was hell in itself.


*all scriptures used were taken from a direct translation of the Greek scriptures* :D

[Samuel]

I answered creedfan what they said in a couple of posts,so I was not answering for you or anybody else for that matter.They said they do not believe in hell so dont answer saying our thoughts.Read Revelations 20:10 and verses 14 and 15.NIV.Thank you!

[ZION1010]

Where is 15 Niv Cant Find it

[Samuel]

It`s Revelation 20:10 and verses 14 and 15 New International Version Bible.Thank you!

[ZION1010]

I Thought You were Talking About One Of The Other Books N the Bible that starts with an N>>. im okay now ITs Always a blessing to hear From you Pray for my Coumputer ITs Giving Me trouble Allright

[StrubesGuitar]

Thanks Mel!ssa for the original Greek, very excellent.

[creedfan47a]

Originally posted by Samuel
I answered creedfan what they said in a couple of posts,so I was not answering for you or anybody else for that matter.They said they do not believe in hell so dont answer saying our thoughts.Read Revelations 20:10 and verses 14 and 15.NIV.Thank you!

Originally posted by Samuel
Hi creedfan 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Revelation 21:8.You do not accept that God will punish sin.

Firstly, Melissa can say whatever she likes in my defence. We have exactly the same beliefs. So, I agree completely with what she said about 1 Cor 6 and Rev 21. I never said that sinners will go unpunished. Have you read Psalm 37:20 and 28? "For the wicked themselves will perish..." and "... As for the offspring of the wicked ones, they will indeed be cut off." I know God will punish unrepentant sinners, I just do not believe that they will be condemned to a fiery hell to be tortured and poked by pitchfork-wielding demons for all eternity.

[mel!ssa]

Originally posted by StrubesGuitar
Thanks Mel!ssa for the original Greek, very excellent.

You're welcome. Wanna know what those scriptures say in the exact translation? It's funny :D :

Matthew 23:33 "Serpents generatedones ofvipers, how shouldyouflee from the judgment ofthe Gehenna?"

2 Peter 2:4 - 6, 9, 12 "If for the God ofangels havingsinned not hespared, but topits ofgloom havingcastintoTartarus hegavebeside into judgment (ones)beingkept, and ofarchaic world not hespared... example of(things)being about(tocome) toirreverential(ones) [he]havingput... unrighteous(ones) but into day ofjudgment (ones)beingloppedoff tobekeeping... These(ones)... in the corruption ofthem also theywillbecorrupted."

1st Corinthians 6:9 "Or not haveyouknown that unjust(ones) ofGod kingdom not theywillinherit?"

Revelation 21:8 "the part ofthem in the lake the(one) burning tofire and sulphur."

Revelation 20:14 "And the death and the Hades werethrown into the lake ofthe fire."

Too bad i can't put the Greek letters on here... but it's pretty funny eh? :P Bit hard to read though...

Oh and Samuel: you are taking everything literally... Revelation is mainly symbolic... that's why it's a Revelation of John...?