The Real History Of Halloween From an Ex-Wiccan

[Lady Valkyrie]

Most of you fellow boardies know that I used to be a Wiccan. What you don't know is that I followed mainly the Celtic ways. Soon it will be one of the most important holidays for Wiccans who follow the Celtic ways. I highly regarded October 31st as a sacred holiday when I was a Wiccan. However American society has taken this holiday of the pagans and made it into silliness about ghouls, goblins, ghosts, monsters, & begging for candy. Most Wiccans looked down upon the modern day version of Holloween, for it seems to downplay a very real sacred holiday for them.

The following is quite lengthy however, it is THE truth on the history of Holloween. It tells it's history, meaning, rituals, & it's modern day significants to those who are neo-pagans.

Please I ask that if you don't feel like reading all of this now, then save it & read it when you have time. It is important that you know the truth of this holiday. It is truely a pagan holiday & Christians should be aware of the truth.

Each person has to make the decsion for themselves whether or not they should celebrate Halloween. Since I have gave up Wiccan & have become a Christian, personally I refuse to allow my children to participate in the ritual of begging for candy in costumes. First & foremost it is IMHO participating in a pagan holiday which the Bible tells Christians not to do is totally wrong & hypocritical of the Christian. Also don't we spend 364 days of the year telling our kids not to take things from strangers & on one day out of the year we send them off in silly costumes begging candy from perfect strangers.

Our modern celebration of Halloween is a descendent of the ancient Celtic fire festival called "Samhain". The word is pronounced "sow-in", with "sow" rhyming with cow. Samhain is the the Celtic New Year. It's actually November 1, but in ancient times, each day began at sundown the "day before" (instead of sunrise "that day"), and festivities therefore began at night.

The Irish English dictionary published by the Irish Texts Society defines the word as follows: "Samhain, All Hallowtide, the feast of the dead in Pagan and Christian times, signalizing the close of harvest and the initiation of the winter season, lasting till May, during which troops were quartered. Faeries were imagined as particularly active at this season. From it the half year is reckoned. also called Feile Moingfinne (Snow Goddess). The Scottish Gaelis Dictionary defines it as "Hallowtide. The Feast of All Soula. Sam + Fuin = end of summer." Contrary to the information published by many organizations, there is no archaeological or literary evidence to indicate that Samhain was a deity. The Celtic Gods of the dead were Gwynn ap Nudd for the British, and Arawn for the Welsh. The Irish did not have a "lord of death" as such.

The Celts were a pastoral people as opposed to an agricultural people. The end of summer was significant to them because it meant the time of year when the structure of their lives changed radically. The cattle were brought down from the summer pastures in the hills and the people were gathered into the houses for the long winter nights of story- telling & handicrafts.

The Celts believed that when people died, they went to a land of eternal youth and happiness called Tir nan Og. They did not have the concept of heaven & hell that the Christian church later brought into the land. The dead were sometimes believed to be dwelling with the Fairy Folk, who lived in the numerous mounds or sidhe (pronounced "shee") that dotted the Irish & Scottish
countryside. Samhain was the new year to the Celts. In the Celtic belief system, turning points, such as the time between one day & the next, the meeting of sea & shore, or the turning of one year into the next were seen as magickal times. The turning of the year was the most potent of these times. This was the time when the "veil between the worlds" was at its thinnest, and the living could communicate with their beloved dead in Tir nan Og.

The Celts did not have demons and devils in their belief system. The fairies, however, were often considered hostile and dangerous to humans because they were seen as being resentful of men taking over their lands. On this night, they would sometimes trick humans into becoming lost in the fairy mounds, where they would be trapped forever. After the coming of the Christians to the Celtic lands, certain of the folk saw the fairies as those angels who had sided neither with God or with Lucifer in their dispute, & thus, were condemned to walk the earth until judgment day. In addition to the fairies, many humans were abroad on this night, causing mischief. since this night belonged neither to one year or the other, Celtic folk believed that chaos reigned & the people would engage in "horseplay and practical jokes". This served also as a final outlet for high spirits before the gloom of winter set in.

During the course of these horseplay & practical jokes, many of the people would imitate the fairies and go from house to house begging for treats. Failure to supply the treats would usually result in practical jokes being visited on the owner of the house. Since the fairies were abroad on this night, an offering of food or milk was frequently left for them on the steps of the house, so the homeowner could gain the blessings of the "good folk" for the coming year. Many of the households would also leave out a "dumb supper" for the spirits of the departed. The folks who were abroad in the night imitating the fairies would some- times carry turnips carved to represent faces. This is the origin of our modern Jack-o-lantern.

Yes this celebration was a religious festival. Celtic religion was very closely tied to the Earth. Their great legends are concerned with momentous happenings which took place around the time of Samhain. many of the great battles and legends of kings and heroes center on this night. Many of the legends concern the promotion of fertility of the earth and the insurance of the continuance of the lives of the people through the dark winter season.

Unfortunately, we know very little about how this was all observed. W.G. Wood-Martin, in his book, "Traces of the Elder Faiths of Ireland" states, "There is comparitively little trace of the religion of the Druids now discoverable, save in the folklore of the peasantry, and the references relative to it that occur in ancient & authentic Irish manuscripts are, as far as present appearances go, meagre and insufficient to support anything like a sound theory for full development of the ancient religion." The Druids were the priests of the Celtic peoples. They passed on their teachings by oral tradition instead of committing them to writing, so when they perished, most of their religious teachings were lost. We DO know that this festival was characterized as one of the four great "Fire Festivals" of the Celts. Legends tell us that on this night, all the hearth fires in Ireland were extinguished, & then re-lit from the central fire of the Druids at Tlachtga, 12 miles from the royal hill of Tara. This fire was kindled from "need fire" which had been generated by the friction of rubbing two sticks together as opposed to more conventional methods common in those days. The extinguishing of the fires symbolized the "dark half" of the year, & the re-kindling from the Druidic fires was symbolic of the returning life hoped for, & brought about through the ministrations of the priesthood.

Animals were certainly killed at this time of year as a sacrifice. This was the time to "cull" from the herds those animals which were not desired for breeding purposes for the next year. Most certainly, some of these would have been done in a ritualistic manner for the use of the priesthood.

Scholars are sharply divided on whether humans were sacrificed as well, with about half believing that it took place & half doubting its veracity. Caesar and Tacitus certainly tell tales of the human sacrifices of the Celts, but Nora Chadwick points out in her book "The Celts" that "it is not without interest that the Romans themselves had abolished human sacrifices not long before Caesar's time, & references to the practice among various barbarian peoples have certain overtones of self-righteousness. There is little direct archaeological evidence relevant to Celtic sacrifice." Indeed, there is little reference to this practice in Celtic literature either. The only surviving story echoes the story of the Minotaur in Greek legend. The Fomorians, a race of evil giants said to inhabit portions of Ireland before the coming of the Tuatha de Danaan, or "people of the Goddess Danu",demanded the sacrifice of 2/3 of the corn, milk, and first born children of the Fir Bolg, or human inhabitants of Ireland. The De Danaan ended this practice in the second battle of Moy Tura, which incidentally took place on Samhain.

Folk tradition tells us of many divination practices associated with Samhain. Among the most common were divinations dealing with marriage, weather, and the coming fortunes for the year. These were performed via such methods as ducking for apples, and apple peeling. Ducking for apples was a marriage divination. The first person to bite an apple would be the first to marry in the coming year. Apple peeling was a divination tosee how long your life would be. The longer the unbroken apple peel, the longer your life was destined to be. In Scotland, people would place stones in the ashes of the hearth before retiring for the night. Anyone whose stone had been disturbed during the night was said to be destined to die during the coming year.

[Lady Valkyrie]

This is how these ancient Celtic practices came to America... When the potato crop in Ireland failed, many of the Irish people, modern day descendents of the Celts, immigrated to America, bringing with them their folk practices, which are the remnants of the Celtic festival observances.

Americans view this as a harvest festival & yes the Celts thought of it as such as well. The Celts had 3 harvests: Aug 1, or Lammas, was the first harvest, when the first fruits were offered to the Gods in thanks. The Fall Equinox was the "true harvest". This was when the bulk of the crops would be brought in. Samhain was the final harvest of the year. Anything left on the vines or in the fields after this date was considered blasted by the fairies, or "pu'ka", & unfit for human consumption.

Many followers of various pagan religions, such as Druids & Wiccans observe this day as a religious festival. They view it as a memorial day for their dead friends, similar to the national holiday of Memorial Day in May. It is still a night to practice various forms of divination concerning future events. Also, it is considered a time to wrap up old projects, take stock of ones life, and initiate new projects for the coming year. As the winter season is approaching, it is a good time to do studying on research projects and also a goot time to begin hand work such as sewing, leather working, woodworking, etc. for Yule gifts later in the year.

Blood sacrifices are no longer observed by modern day neo-pagans. There may be some people who THINK they are practicing Wicca by performing blood sacrifices, but this is NOT condoned by reputable practitioners of the modern day NeoPagan religions.

[Read JDM]

Interesting. You actually made it sound not as bad as I thought it would've been, particularly because I would've expected something more on human sacrifice and yet you say the evidence to suggest such sacrifices were made is inconclusive. I'm still not one for dressing up and "celebrating" this day, but I'm curious, beyond the facts what's your personal perspective on Halloween?

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by Read JDM, but I'm curious, beyond the facts what's your personal perspective on Halloween?

I gave my personal perspective already.

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
Each person has to make the decsion for themselves whether or not they should celebrate Halloween. Since I have gave up Wiccan & have become a Christian, personally I refuse to allow my children to participate in the ritual of begging for candy in costumes. First & foremost it is IMHO participating in a pagan holiday which the Bible tells Christians not to do is totally wrong & hypocritical of the Christian.  Also don't we spend 364 days of the year telling our kids not to take things from strangers & on one day out of the year we send them off in silly costumes begging candy from perfect strangers.

[souldancer]

I thought that Halloweeen was about the Eve before All Saint's(Souls) Day? Any comments/feedback.. Thanks

[Read JDM]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
I gave my personal perspective already.

You know what? By the time I got to the end, I completely forgot you wrote that part. Now, what I'd really like to know is, what are your thoughts on the Pagan rituals erroneously embedded in Christian holiday customs? For example, Christmas trees. I know, I know, they can be considered "fun," but to me they compromise the true meaning of the holiday. What's your take?

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by Read JDM
<b>You know what? By the time I got to the end, I completely forgot you wrote that part. Now, what I'd really like to know is, what are your thoughts on the Pagan rituals erroneously embedded in Christian holiday customs? For example, Christmas trees. I know, I know, they can be considered "fun," but to me they compromise the true meaning of the holiday. What's your take? </b>

One holiday at a time dear ;) I deal with one holiday at a time. Let the people absorb and discuss Holloween first. I'll deal with Christmas in a seperate thread. LOL You reminded me of the stores who put out Christmas decorations with the Holloween one in October. LOL ;)

[Read JDM]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
One holiday at a time dear ;) I deal with one holiday at a time. Let the people absorb and discuss Holloween first. I'll deal with Christmas in a seperate thread. LOL You reminded me of the stores who put out Christmas decorations with the Holloween one in October. LOL ;)

Well, it's funny you should mention that, because it's precisely those stores that make me believe the power of faith has been bastardized by 20th century wants and needs.

[allison]

I always celebrated Halloween as a child but as an adult I have grown to dislike it. I'm not really sure why. I just don't like the "feel" of it - that's all I know to say. I don't even like seeing Halloween decorations.

[Lady Valkyrie]

You know what allison? I have spoken with a lot of Christians who say the same thing. They say that they did the whole trick or treating thing as a child and yet as mature Christian adults they "feel" that there is just "something" not right about the holiday. IMHO I feel that is the Holy Spirit of God trying to help them to realize that this holiday is in reality a pagan holiday and that Christians shouldn't observe such things.

Now please remember that I am not for a moment judging anyone who does celebrate this holiday. I used to celebrate it with my kids up until a few years ago. It's just that my Lord and Savior has led me to these conclusions via the knowledge that I gained as a Wiccan. I feel that Christians should be aware of the facts then they can make an educated decsion either way.

[Read JDM]

I feel the same way, you guys. As a kid, I loved Halloween, but now I'm very standoffish about it. If and when I have kids, I'll let them get dressed like all the other kids at school, because I think it could potentially be just as damaging to keep them from what everyone else is doing (I stress potentially, because I don't have kids yet and therefore don't know for sure), but I'll try and move them away from it at the earliest age they're able to understand why.

[creedfaner]

Friday the 13th, Halloween, ghoasts, evil spirits, ect. Its all just an 'illusion' to me. There is something wrong if people think those are all real things on this planet. From a scietific stand point, its all a pseudo-science.

[souldancer]

Ahhh - come on!!! I think it is important to embrace the Dark side - to confront the goblins, monsters, fears and woes. If we don't do it - IT will do it to us.. Am I the only one that loved the video of OLB?! I believe that our unconscious has some dark stuff- and the more we do consciously to confront, release, and fill the hole with the light, good stuff the healthier we can be. Some of you parents probably talk to your children about those nightmares with monsters, and we know of people filled with old guilt and terrors that are ready to explode or immobolized by fear into depression. (ok, maybe SD has had just one too many glasses of wine....);)

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by creedfaner
Friday the 13th, Halloween, ghoasts, evil spirits, ect. Its all just an 'illusion' to me. There is something wrong if people think those are all real things on this planet. From a scietific stand point, its all a pseudo-science.

This thread was not meant to condemn the ghosts, ghouls, and goblins of Holloween. In fact the reason for this thread is to educate. To inform with knowledge of how Holloween came about and what it really means. I am a Christian... as a Christian God's word tells me that Christians shouldn't participate in pagan rituals. Holloween is indeed a pagan ritual. Do the research for yourself you will find out what is in this thread to be true. With this knowledge I have come to the decsion that me and my family will not celebrate this pagan holiday for it goes against everything that I believe in and that is God and Jesus Christ.

HOWEVER, Do I expect everyone to come to the same conclusion as I did? NO! I am merely stating facts and each individual has to make up their own minds for themselves. So I will ask you all kindly to not turn this thread around as though I am going "witch hunting".

[souldancer]

Having been raised in a Catholic environment and my father being born on "All Saints/Soul's Day" I was interested to read about what was beyond the Celtic period.....

"When the Romans conquered the Celts, they added their own touches to the Samhain festival, such as making centerpieces out of apples and nuts for Pomona, the Roman goddess of the orchards. The Romans also bobbed for apples and drank cider—traditions which may sound familiar to you. But where does the Christian aspect of the holiday come into play? In 835, Pope Gregory IV moved the celebration for all the martyrs (later all saints) from May 13 to November 1. The night before became known as All Hallow’s Even or “holy evening.” Eventually the name was shortened to the current Halloween. On November 2, the Church celebrates All Souls Day. The purpose of these feasts is to remember those who have died, whether they are officially recognized by the Church as saints or not. It is a celebration of the “communion of saints,” which reminds us that the Church is not bound by space or time." ( I LOVE THAT LAST LINE !!!)

And, living in California with a large Hispanic population I am fascinated but the rituals of Day of the Dead, "El Dia de los Muertos" - but that would be for another post..

SORRY, focusing now...

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by souldancer
<b>Having been raised in a Catholic environment and my father being born on "All Saints/Soul's Day" I was interested to read about what was beyond the Celtic period.....

"When the Romans conquered the Celts, they added their own touches to the Samhain festival, such as making centerpieces out of apples and nuts for Pomona, the Roman goddess of the orchards. The Romans also bobbed for apples and drank cider—traditions which may sound familiar to you. But where does the Christian aspect of the holiday come into play? In 835, Pope Gregory IV moved the celebration for all the martyrs (later all saints) from May 13 to November 1. The night before became known as All Hallow’s Even or “holy evening.” Eventually the name was shortened to the current Halloween. On November 2, &nbsp;the Church celebrates All Souls Day. &nbsp;The purpose of these feasts is to remember those who have died, whether they are officially recognized by the Church as saints or not. It is a celebration of the “communion of saints,” which reminds us that the Church is not bound by space or time." ( I LOVE THAT LAST LINE !!!)

And, living in California with a large Hispanic population I am fascinated but the rituals of Day of the Dead, "El Dia de los Muertos" &nbsp;- but that would be for another post..

SORRY, focusing now... </b>

Thank you for contributing that info souldancer! I appreciate that.

About "the day of the dead" could you try to post some info on it maybe in a seperate thread? I have no personal tie to it and seeing as you are from an area that prodominately celebrates this holiday then you'd be a great sourse of information. I personally would like to know more about it. Right now though I gotta get that pile of laundry done...:embarass:

[souldancer]

If I did anything, I would post it in a new thread.

[creedfaner]

let turn the tables on this topic...

What about aliens? Who believes? Who doesnt? Who just doesnt give a flying F? Speak your peace! :lol:

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by souldancer
If I did anything, I would post it in a &nbsp;new thread.

Isn't that what I said dear? lol ;)

[souldancer]

And if you said go vote for Bush or listen to Rush Limbaugh, would I do it? NO! You are your child's mom, not mine. I make my own decisions, thank you.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by souldancer
And if you said go vote for Bush or listen to Rush Limbaugh, would I do it? NO! &nbsp;You are your child's mom, not mine. &nbsp;I make my own decisions, thank you.
'

WHO PEED IN YOUR FREAKIN' CHEERIOS SWEET PEA!? Don't you even jump down my throat over a mere suggestion. I asked you if you could give us more info on the Day of the dead celebration and post it in a different thread. Then you come off with an attitude that even if you would give the info you wouldn't dare put it in this thread... NO ONE ASKED YOU TO PUT IT IN THIS THREAD NOW DID THEY?! No they didn't. I specifically stated that it would be a good idea to put it in a different thread... intentions of that statement was to give your info the recognition that it would deserve on it's own. I wasn't even trying to boss you around. You need to carefully reread my previous replies in this thread and then exactly show me where I was bossing you around. You need to seriously chill dear! I was having a pleasent conversation with you and you read more into what I said than what was really there. :mad: :confused:

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by souldancer
If I did anything, I would post it in a &nbsp;new thread.

Originally quoted by Lady V:
Isn't that what I said dear?
Then you come off with an attitude that even if you would give the info you wouldn't dare put it in this thread...


Hey, Lady V, can you explain to me just where the attitude is in the quote from souldancer? It seems to me that her post was plain and simple, if she wanted to answer your curiosities, she states that she would post it in a new thread. I see no sarcasm, no evidence of any pee in her cheerios. Now in your two posts that follow, I see major attitude. Perhaps your cheerios got mixed up with some pee of their own? Because both your posts are dripping with attitude. I'm sorry, maybe I'm just not reading between the lines here, but I don't see ANYWHERE that souldancer says she wouldn't DARE put the info in this thread. I dunno, maybe I need my eyes checked, but I just don't see any attitude in souldancer's posts.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by Lady ValkyrieIsn't that what I said dear? lol ;)

I was merely trying to tell her in case she missed what I said in my previous reply. Notice the little "lol" and the " ;) "... that means I was being lighthearted and joking.


Originally posted by souldancer"And if you said go vote for Bush or listen to Rush Limbaugh, would I do it? NO! You are your child's mom, not mine. I make my own decisions, thank you."


You don't call that dripping with attitude??!! I just think you are a little biased is all, Teri.

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
'

WHO PEED IN YOUR FREAKIN' CHEERIOS SWEET PEA!? Don't you even jump down my throat over a mere suggestion. I asked you if you could give us more info on the Day of the dead celebration and post it in a different thread. Then you come off with an attitude that even if you would give the info you wouldn't dare put it in this thread...

This is what YOU posted, with regard to her post about putting the info in a different thread. Her post is most certainly NOT dripping with attitude. The post you claim is dripping with attitude is, in fact, a response to your cutsie little wink about "isn't that what I said, dear". That particular post, dear, is not cute, nor is it funny. It's sarcastic. Not lighthearted. Not funny. And furthermore, your use of the word 'dear' does not give one the idea that you are using it as a term of endearment. I've seen you use it in several other threads to others and it almost always comes off as disingenuous. Sorry, that's just IMO, dear.

[Dogstar]

At the risk of stirring up yet another hornet's nest, I'll kick in with a little 'tude here. Lady V, I think it would help tons if you didn't condescend by calling people *dear*. It really is not endearing at all. Putting the smilies and the lol after your remarks doesn't take away the attitude. Sorry.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Do either of you know me personally? Have either of you chatted with me away from posting replies on this board? Have either of you chatted with me via PM for any length of time?

Neither one of you know me personally. And because of this I will forgive your misinterpretation of my words.

I use the word dear a lot. I also use sweetheart and honey a lot... even to strangers. Growing up as a redneck hillbilly those were terms I used a lot. The term dear for the most part is not used by me in a condescending way. The ONLY... I REPEAT ONLY way either of you could possibly know for sure weather or not the term dear was being used condescedingly is if you actually hear the tone of my physical voice.

This is the problem with the internet... it doesn't convey "tones" very well.

You both need to settle down and actually think about what I've just said.

POSTED BY LADY VALKYRIE <b>"Thank you for contributing that info souldancer! I appreciate that.

About "the day of the dead" could you try to post some info on it maybe in a seperate thread? I have no personal tie to it and seeing as you are from an area that prodominately celebrates this holiday then you'd be a great sourse of information. I personally would like to know more about it. Right now though I gotta get that pile of laundry done...</b>

Those statements were indeed lighthearted and nice. When souldancer then stated that if she posted anything it would be in a different thread... I figured that she must have not seen what I had posted about the "seperate thread"... therefore I said...

[QUOTE]POSTED BY LADY VALKYRIE <b>"Isn't that what I said dear? lol ;) </b>

How can either of you possibly determine whether my tone is condescending or not without actually hearing my actual voice with your ears?!

After souldancer's obviously snide comment is when I got pissed and that pissy reply that I made is a valid reason for either of you to be upset... NOT BECAUSE I USED THE WORD DEAR!

[Mulletman]

ALL OF YOU QUIT YOUR BITCHING AND TAKE IT OUTSIDE

honestly is it really worth fighting over some stupid thing. just let it be. for the love orf God if you dont like it here LEAVE! NO ONE cares about your views, NO ONE cares about your opinions. NO ONE is going to miss your stupid smilie posts. we were all happy before you got here we wil all be happy after you leave!

just..let..it..be

period, let the damn horse die in peace.....

(this was a lot better when i was stil pulling rank)

[Dogstar]

Well, Lady V, I would gently suggest that you open your hillbilly mind up to the fact that not everyone shares your interpretation of the use of the word *dear*. Get your head out of the sand and realize that there are other perspectives besides your own.

[TeriB19]

Neither one of you know me personally. And because of this I will forgive your misinterpretation of my words.

Wow are you pompous. You forgive our misinterpretations of your words? I don't think I misinterpreted anything. Leaving the "dear" thing aside for just a sec, you are right, your reply was pissy. But I'm not going to forgive you. Forgiveness is something you give when someone is sorry for something they did or said. I a not sorry, and I do not want your forgiveness. And as for your use of "dear", it's one thing to say, you are a dear for saying something so nice. It's quite another to say, I disagree with you dear. Maybe I don't hear your exact inflection and tone, but I can read sarcasm. I myself use a lot of sarcasm, just don't blatantly condescend to people as you do.

[Lady Valkyrie]

It was a misinterpretaion... I meant it one way and you took it another way... you misinterpreted it. I can understand how you can misinterpret it. My head is not in the sand however, I will not apologize for what I said because I meant nothing negative towards anyone when I use the term dear.

And as for you Mulletman when did you become the Moderator of this board to be able to order someone off this board? *scratches head* Maybe I had my head in the sand when that happened. By the way Mulletman... don't you just love that report button ... when you feel that spamming, fighting, or other negative things are happening on this board that you do not like then you can just click that little report button and wash your hands of it... for the real moderator/administrator will take care of it... won't he mulletman.

No one is going to stop me from posting here. The only person who is capable of that is Steve. So I'll say this as politly as I can... no one makes you read any of my posts or any other post for that matter. So please grow up and stop pretending that you can bully someone into leaving. I've encountered far worse than you. :rolleyes: :D :P

:D :D :D :D

I just love those smilies!

[Lady Valkyrie]

Oh boo hoo waaaah waaaaah:crying: I'm terrified and scared of the man with the mullet :rolleyes:

:lol: :roll: :lol: :roll:

[Dogstar]

Now, who's the one who needs to GROW UP?

[Mulletman]

this is gonna be fun

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by Dogstar
Now, who's the one who needs to GROW UP?

Just merely showing the man with the mullet how much he scares me... with his scary threatening way he uses the phrase "dumb f***" and how his "warning has scared me. He's proved his point I'm quivering now... see...

:peace:

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by Mulletman
this is gonna be fun

It sure is!!!:D :bounce: :D

[Dogstar]

I'll bet you were kid who always had to get the last word in.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by Dogstar
I'll bet you were kid who always had to get the last word in.


Well I was on the debate team in my sophmore and junior year of high school... lol :D

[Steve]

Is everyone going to stop fighting or should I close this thread?

[allison]

As someone who has been absent from the board for the last day or two, and come on and done my catch up reading, something has struck me. Now, I may well regret saying this b/c I'll probably offend (although I don't mean to) some people here who I have become friends with and who I really like, but I am not one to just sit and watch while someone is being bullied. I think it has become an obvious trend on this board to give LadyV a hard time! I think her views are unpopular and because of that people have slowly but surely come to "gang up" on her. Sure, I disagree with ALOT of what she says too, and I also think she can come off harsh, and maybe could use some lessons in sounding more diplomatic while still expressing her beliefs effectively, but I do not allow myself to mistreat her b/c of it. All of us here preach tolerance for differing views, but we don't practice it sometimes! If a person with differing views is also rude and insulting or whatever, then fine, give them a hard time, but I don't believe LadyV is, but maybe you all disagree? Like when she says "dear", people take it to be condescending but I do not believe she means it that way. That's just one example. I'm just saying we should all make sure what a person writes does indeed have negative intentions before we jump down their throats. Don't just assume it because you have a biased view of them due to the fact that you don't like their views on religion or politics or whatever it may be.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Allison First I want to thank you for your honest and the love for your fellow boardies... even when you disagree with them... ;) Secondly I'll be the first to admit that political correctness and diplomacy is not a part of my vocabulary. I tend to be honest...I guess to the point that it hurts which makes me seem harsh. I tend to say what I mean and mean what I say. I do admit that I do come off as harsh and I am willing to work on that. and it's obvious that a heck of a lot of other could learn the same thing as well. However don't any one of you dare to expect me to lay down and be attacked over such idiotic things like using the word "dear"... where I come from I ain't used to backing down. That is something that only the Lord can help me with. You people jumped on me because you assumed that the words that I used had a negative connotone... in reality I never intended them as negative but as a friendly lighthearted term. But did any of you bother to shut up long enough to actually think that maybe I was telling the truth? No! Why is that? Because you people do not like me. Why? Because of my beliefs and my boldness for standing by my beliefs even when they are unpopular. But you are right allison when you say it's the trend to give certain people a hard time. I don't think it's just me though. If more Christians on this board would stand up more and have a voice on this board you would see an all out holy war.

I never expect anyone to constently agree with me and tell me that I am right all the time and that what I believe is true and right... NEVER HAVE i EVER ASKED THAT OF ANYONE. But I do expect to be able to explain my Christian point of view without running the risk of being labeled as closeminded, and intolerant.

Again allison I thank you for your honesty.

[GoodGodGirl23]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
'

WHO PEED IN YOUR FREAKIN' CHEERIOS SWEET PEA!? Don't you even jump down my throat over a mere suggestion. I asked you if you could give us more info on the Day of the dead celebration and post it in a different thread. Then you come off with an attitude that even if you would give the info you wouldn't dare put it in this thread... NO ONE ASKED YOU TO PUT IT IN THIS THREAD NOW DID THEY?! No they didn't. I specifically stated that it would be a good idea to put it in a different thread... intentions of that statement was to give your info the recognition that it would deserve on it's own. I wasn't even trying to boss you around. You need to carefully reread my previous replies in this thread and then exactly show me where I was bossing you around. You need to seriously chill dear! I was having a pleasent conversation with you and you read more into what I said than what was really there. :mad: :confused:
Spoken like a true Christian."Who peed in your freakin Cheerios Sweet pea"

[GoodGodGirl23]

Originally posted by creedfaner
let turn the tables on this topic...

What about aliens? Who believes? Who doesnt? Who just doesnt give a flying F? Speak your peace! :lol:

Hey, that's my expression..Flying fuck!!!;)

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by GoodGodGirl23
<b>Spoken like a true Christian."Who peed in your freakin Cheerios Sweet pea" </b> LMAO!!:P

[Lady Valkyrie]

Oh so now it's all about pointing out the Christian's many horrible sins. Well if you would actually read and absorb ALL that I wrote above you will see that I humbly admit my faults. So let me ask you are you willing to admit yours as well as point out mine? And are you willing to try and remedy those faults with different behaviors as I am willing to do?

[TeriB19]

Jesus Christ, none of us are perfect. We all sin. We all say things we should not. You need to clock out for the day and just chill.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Hey it was YOUR friend GGG who started throwing out my horrible sins and sarcastically stated "Stated Like A True Christian." and it was you Teri who laughed right along with her... do unto others Teri as you would have them do unto you... as you love to say in the "other" thread.

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
<b>Hey it was YOUR friend GGG who started throwing out my horrible sins and sarcastically stated "Stated Like A True Christian." and it was you Teri who laughed right along with her... do unto others Teri as you would have them do unto you... as you love to say in the "other" thread. </b> Where the hell do you see her 'throwing out your horrible sins'? She just stated her opinion, which I found funny. She didn't say anything at all about your horrible sins. Lighten up. See, the difference between you and most is that we can laugh at ourselves sometimes. You take things way too seriously, then when you make a joke, it gets misunderstood because of how seriously you have taken everything else. I treat people the way I would like to be treated. And I don't take myself too seriously, so if people want to rag on me about things, I accept it and laugh at it too, I give as I get.

[Lady Valkyrie]

I'm sorry Teri but I think GGG needs to speak for herself... in my opinion I took what she said as a slam at me personally... as if to say " little Miss Audrey on her high and mighty religious horse claims to be all holier than thou and yet she talks like this yeah real christian like ain't it guys." and you in turn laughed about it which came across to me as you were laughing at me and taking a slam as well. Is that in fact what you meant by it GGG... as if she'll even admit to something like that anyway... :rolleyes:

[GoodGodGirl23]

uh, Teri, what in the hell is she talking about?:confused:

[GoodGodGirl23]

Oh boy....:( opened up anuther big fatty can a worms there, sry Teri:embarass:

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
Audrey on her high and mighty religious horse claims to be all holier than thou and yet she talks like this &nbsp;
You said it, I didn't.

[souldancer]

GGG, I don't think we should be sorry for speaking our truths! The sad observation is that these "nasty' threads are in the Faith/Religion area. Teri already brought up the Golden Rule. I admit that last night I reached a human threshold with passive-agressive behavior and flew off two posts that I expected would not be well received - though IMO they were honest and appropriate. I am not arrogant enough to think that it was a reaction to those posts that set off a chain reaction of common feelings. I have a lot more I would like to communicate, but words will just get in the way. Anyone that thinks I owe them an apology for starting a holy war can PM me. Time to get back to CREED!

[luvscott4ever]

Originally posted by souldancer
Time to get back to CREED!

:clap: :clap: :clap: YES!! PLEASE..Let's do that!!!! :)

[GoodGodGirl23]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
<b>I'm sorry Teri but I think GGG needs to speak for herself... in my opinion I took what she said as a slam at me personally... as if to say " little Miss Audrey on her high and mighty religious horse claims to be all holier than thou and yet she talks like this yeah real christian like ain't it guys." and you in turn laughed about it which came across to me as you were laughing at me and taking a slam as well. Is that in fact what you meant by it GGG... as if she'll even admit to something like that anyway... :rolleyes: </b>

I never said you were on no horsey der Lady V, do you ride horseys?:eek:

[souldancer]

Originally posted by luvscott4ever
:clap: &nbsp;:clap: &nbsp;:clap: &nbsp; YES!! PLEASE..Let's do that!!!! &nbsp;:)
Excellent idea! Meet you on another thread...

( PS.. did you see photos of the guys in CreedInk from a Halloween party in 2001? )

[allison]

God, I just wish everyone would be nice to each other. Maybe it's b/c I am so tired of the fighting I have been around all my life, but it just makes me sad.:(

[Aimee]

:nerd: :angel:
:rainbow:
:embarass: :mad: :madder:
:kill:

[Aimee]

:devil: :grr:
:shoot: :boxing:
:slap: :argue:
:finger:

[Aimee]

:cuss: :headbang:
:rolleyes: :razz:
:eye:
:spank:

[Aimee]

:help: :wub:
:banghead:
:band: :party: :party2:
:confused:
(:roll: @ myself)

LadyV, you probably brought these on yourself by all the harsh remarks in other threads, but I don't think you deserved all the venting all at once.

Hey y'all - Just Give Love to All

[Read JDM]

Originally posted by Aimee
:band: :party: :party2:

I like that.

[GoodGodGirl23]

Originally posted by Aimee
:nerd: :angel: &nbsp;
:rainbow: &nbsp;
:embarass: :mad: :madder: &nbsp;
:kill:

I like this!!!:P

[Siana]

may i join to the madness? lol :boxing: :fart: :hippy: :nutty:
:jam: :poopin: :pant: :party: :band: :silly:

[Read JDM]

Sometimes, when I see all these emoticons having fun, it only makes me :(

[Unforgiven Fan]

I thought halloween was christian adaptation of a pagan ritual..well any

[luvscott4ever]

Originally posted by souldancer
Excellent idea! &nbsp;Meet you on another thread...

( PS.. did you see photos of the guys in CreedInk from a Halloween party in 2001? )

No I haven't....I'll have to check it out!! Thanx for the info! Is that the website or the magazine??

[TeriB19]

CreedInk the magazine.

If I may chime in my 2 1/2 cents here, I don't take Halloween as seriously as some I suppose. I don't deal in religious meanings or symbolisms. I don't consider it having my kids begging from strangers. My kids love to dress up, get very excited at their costumes every year. My husband or I take them around to all the houses in the neighborhood (all families we know, no strangers) and despite the fact that they are our neighbors, we still go through the candy to check for anything suspicious. But I wouldn't take away the joy in their faces every year for all the gold in Ft. Knox. It's a fun day for them. To me, it's about the kids, not the religions.

[Lady Valkyrie]

My kids don't look at it as mom has taken something fun away... they see it as something that they gain. See every year my father, who is in West Virginia, sends a huge package to the kids around Halloween. He takes these three huge 5 quart ice cream buckets and fills them with the kid's favorite candy. Then I take them to Sams Club and let them pick out for themselves tons of candy... enough to fill up another 5 quart ice cream bucket for each one of the kids. See then think this way is better. It's because when the go trick or treating they may get candy that they don't even like or old nasty out of date candy... but the way I do it they get exactly what they like. They have enough candy that way to last for months!

[TeriB19]

Either way our kids' dentists love us don't they?

[Lady Valkyrie]

lol yeah they do lol

Last year my Dad sent me a bucket of candy as well. lol I love my dad! He even sent me a chocolate cross for Easter this year.:D

[TeriB19]

I love religious momentos that I can eat.;)

[souldancer]

Originally posted by luvscott4ever
No I haven't....I'll have to check it out!! &nbsp;Thanx for the info! Is that the website or the magazine??

Hi - The magazine. How's it going? :)

[luvscott4ever]

Originally posted by souldancer
Hi - The magazine. &nbsp;How's it going? :)

Dang!! I don't have that!! I still haven't signed up for the gold/platinum membership yet!! I keep forgetting about it!! Gonna have to get that done!! And it's going pretty good! how about you?? You need to check your PM's..tried to PM you, but they say you are full!! :)

[TeriB19]

Got my package from CreedInk a week or so ago. Love it. Love the CreedInk mag. and they'll send the next 3 over the course of the next year. The second should be out soon. Also, they sent the Screamline Tracks cd with Brother of Mine too. That was a bonus they never mentioned in the application process. Cool!:cool:

[allison]

Glad to got the Screamline CD too Teri - it's good, isn't it? What a great bonus!

[Dogstar]

Yes, it is good. Quite a nice bonus.

[souldancer]

Originally posted by Dogstar
Yes, it is good. Quite a nice bonus.
:wtf:

[Pittock]

I got a Platinum membership and didn't get the Screamline cd. Damn! Where can I buy it?

[Dogstar]

Originally posted by souldancer
:wtf:
:confused:

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by Pittock
I got a Platinum membership and didn't get the Screamline cd. Damn! Where can I buy it? I think anytime you make a purchase from Screamline they send it to you. That's weird that you got the Platinum and I only got the gold and I got the cd. Maybe they had extras in the warehouse they needed to get rid of.

[Ruby]

I got the CreedInk mag and an autographed photo when I got my concert tix from the WAWO charity auction. In the mag they give the names and photos of some of Creeds road crew so at the last show I went to I shouted hi and called the name of one of them and he looked so surprised LOL!

[allison]

Originally posted by Pittock
I got a Platinum membership and didn't get the Screamline cd. Damn! Where can I buy it?

I bought my membership as soon as CreedINK started back up and I did not get the CD at that time. It was only when I returned my shirt for another size that they mistakenly sent me another magazine, litho, etc, and sent me the CD as well. So at the time that I joined they had not started sending the CD out yet with orders. How long ago did you join? Maybe that's why.

[Dogstar]

I got the CD for the gold membership and I joined a few weeks ago. Maybe it does depend on when you joined.

[TeriB19]

I'm pretty sure Pittock joined awhile back, I remember discussing it with her in the summer months.

[Pittock]

I placed my order right after I got back from Fargo show so it was probably the 16th of August. Oh well. Maybe when I renew my WAWO i'll get something cool.