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Old 05-15-2005, 04:36 AM   #1
Jester
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Tired of being saved

Lord please save me from your followers

Last edited by Jester : 05-26-2005 at 04:57 AM.
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Old 05-15-2005, 08:31 AM   #2
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I know exactly where you are coming from... I denounced my faith in the same fashion as you when I was around 15 due to a falling out with my family and church (it was all I knew and all I trusted and they both failed me)...

You don't have to attend a church to be of faith, nor are you expected to suck up to anyone to be accepted or normal. Jesus never kissed anyone's ass either... You have a family of your own now and that's where your priorities are!

If you have time, I would we interested in hearing about the studies you are delving into as of late that would cause you to change your position on your faith. imo, there's more to it than that, and you starting this thread shows your lack of commitment even through the toughest of trials.

Hang in there, and don't stop communications here...

Heaven

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Old 05-15-2005, 01:27 PM   #3
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Why exactly did you guys renounce your Faith? What is it you dodn't believe anymore?
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Old 05-15-2005, 03:11 PM   #4
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Last edited by Jester : 05-26-2005 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:40 PM   #5
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Umm, well actually, plenty of Christians DON'T believe Jesus was an only child, although I do.

I assume I can't convicne you of the fact that Jesus is the Son of God by quoting the Bible, since you obviously wouldn't accept it as inspired. But, all but the most prejudiced of secular scholars accept the Gospels as historically valid, if not necessarily doctrinally correct. But if Jesus lived, said and did all the things that are in the Gospels, I would find it hard to believe He was NOT the Son of God, although obviously one must have some Faith.

It certainly is not "factually impossible". If there is a God, then certainly Jesus could rise from the dead. Although, obviously, if you are not going to believe it, you jsut are not going to believe it.

I do hope you change your mind though.
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Old 05-15-2005, 06:50 PM   #6
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Yah know...Jester, I know exactly how you are feeling...I grew up in a catholic family, my parents are very religious, my sister, my friends, people on my work...
Even though not all are catholics, all of them have a religion... and obviously believe in God but ...as for me , even though I'm catholic...I have a lot of questions that Church or whatever religion cannot answer...
I 'm a very rational person and so it's quite hard to accept the religion true. I disagree with a lot of principles and positions made by religions...
But you know, I never said it before... sometimes I miss something...and I don't know what it is ...
I really try ...but I can't...

PS: It's funny...I never posted here...I dont even like to talk about religion, I dont feel comfortable...but since I disagree with a friend and had a hard discussion (and felt very sad ) about faith and religion...religion is in my mind...
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So while I'm turning in my sheets
And once again, I cannot sleep
Walk out the door and up the street
Look at the stars
Look at the stars, falling down,
And I wonder where, did I go wrong.




"I know a girl (Gio )
She puts the color inside of my world"

Girls become lovers who turn into mothers
So mothers be good to your daughters too

Last edited by Ana4Stapp : 05-18-2005 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 05-15-2005, 07:36 PM   #7
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I think one of the reasons people can get pissed about what other people do "in the name of religion" is because a lot of people do STUPID THINGS in the name of religion. Don't judge everyone who has a strong faith by a few overzealous and possibly erroneous people's actions.
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Old 05-15-2005, 11:35 PM   #8
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Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) Why exactly did you guys renounce your Faith? What is it you dodn't believe anymore?
Past tense uncertaindrummer...

I got it back!

Still waiting for a reply Jester. What are you studying that contradicts Jesus as the son of God?

Heaven

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Old 05-16-2005, 02:28 AM   #9
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Last edited by Jester : 05-26-2005 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 05-16-2005, 02:32 AM   #10
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Last edited by Jester : 05-26-2005 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 05-16-2005, 05:57 AM   #11
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Jester) Christ said a good tree cannot produce bad fruit well here is my question what about the crusades and the inquisition and such massacres carried out by "Great religious scolors" in the history of the church these ar just a few "bad fruits" that the church has produced so how can christianity be from God? either that of God is a bad tree you can't have it both ways according to Jesus

You came to the point. This is my question too.

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) : I think one of the reasons people can get pissed about what other people do "in the name of religion" is because a lot of people do STUPID THINGS in the name of religion. Don't judge everyone who has a strong faith by a few overzealous and possibly erroneous people's actions.

Church did a lot of stupid things in the name of religion.
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So while I'm turning in my sheets
And once again, I cannot sleep
Walk out the door and up the street
Look at the stars
Look at the stars, falling down,
And I wonder where, did I go wrong.




"I know a girl (Gio )
She puts the color inside of my world"

Girls become lovers who turn into mothers
So mothers be good to your daughters too
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:27 AM   #12
HeavenBesideYou
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“So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.” (Rom 7:4-5)

This passage appears in the context of Romans 6, 7 and 8, in which Paul is presenting a contrast between being controlled by the sinful nature and being led by the Spirit of God...

One produces sin (“fruit for death”), while the other produces righteousness (“fruit to God”). It is not speaking of making good disciples versus making bad disciples.

An analogy can be found in the relationship between a parent and a child. A parent can create the condition that makes disobedience possible yet the parent remains innocent if the child sins. For example, if a parent tells his child to clean up his room and the child does not, he has rebelled. But, the parent is not responsible for the child’s sin, nor did he cause the child to sin.

The child had a choice to obey or not to obey, just as we do...

It's called freewill.

Heaven

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Old 05-16-2005, 08:42 AM   #13
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Jester) I would like to just get this out here I have found that most (nat all mind you) stories in the bible were lifted and changed slightly to mold in to the book know as such they were stolen from myths dating back farther than recorded history most told as stories to explain the stars ansd their movments. even the story of Jesus is stolen from other texts EVEN THE IDEA OF COMMUNION I shit you not I'll have to consult my texts for referance to give stories but this is what I have found in my studies
I can even use Jesus to discredit Jesus if you would like...,.


TTFN
Sounds like the Gnostic Gospel has really had an impact on you.

Problem is, not all agree that the Christian Gospel was stolen from those ancient stories of Agustus and such. Some believe that they way God went about the birth of Christ was so that pagan religions would sit up and take notice.

Anways, what I am trying to say is that U will read other things and they will have a huge impact on your beliefs too. Dont allow the Gnostic Gospel to be the be-all-end-all of your searching, or U will be doing just what U think we are doing, believing one books opinion blindly.

Keep asking, keep seeking, keep knocking...
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Old 05-16-2005, 08:44 AM   #14
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Quote: (Originally Posted by HeavenBesideYou) I know exactly where you are coming from... I denounced my faith in the same fashion as you when I was around 15 due to a falling out with my family and church (it was all I knew and all I trusted and they both failed me)...

You don't have to attend a church to be of faith, nor are you expected to suck up to anyone to be accepted or normal. Jesus never kissed anyone's ass either... You have a family of your own now and that's where your priorities are!

If you have time, I would we interested in hearing about the studies you are delving into as of late that would cause you to change your position on your faith. imo, there's more to it than that, and you starting this thread shows your lack of commitment even through the toughest of trials.

Hang in there, and don't stop communications here...

Heaven

I like this. I like U.
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Old 05-16-2005, 10:34 AM   #15
uncertaindrumer
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Jester) Christ said a good tree cannot produce bad fruit well here is my question what about the crusades and the inquisition and such massacres carried out by "Great religious scolors" in the history of the church these ar just a few "bad fruits" that the church has produced so how can christianity be from God? either that of God is a bad tree you can't have it both ways according to Jesus

First off, I think the good fruit bad fruit thing was answered. Second:

The Crusades were really nothing mroe than DEFENSIVE WAR. I don't see why people have so much problem with the Crusades. The Mohommadens ATTACKED the Holy Land and CONQUERED it. The Crusades were merely attempts to get it BACK. Was the United States EVIL for trying to give France and Poland their freedom back in WWII? I think not. Were there abuses? Sure. I'm positive PLENTY of bad thigns happened that should not have.

The same goes for the Crusades. They were GOOD in nature--trying to win back something had been stolen. But of course, being HUMAN BEINGS, abuses occured. But it isn't like the Crusades were evil.

The Inquisitions are a lot like the Crusades. It may seem AMAZING in this God-given time of religious freedom, but in the 14-1600's, Islam was a HUGE and IMMEDIATE threat to all of Christianized Europe. The inquisitions were created to root out Islamic spies and such. Now were there abuses? OF COURSE. There are ALWAYS problems with ANY plan of men, no matter how glorious in nature. CHARITIES for poor children in South America often take more money than they should--does that mean that charities, and everyone who works for them, are evil? Of course not.
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