Super Bowl XXXIX

[titan9]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd)

with all due respect, i wholeheartedly disagree. sure they didn't make the playoffs the following season, but they came back w/ a vengeance last year and won it all. and, as i said above, i think we've really seen how excellent NE's coaches are. it's not the players, it's the system. and it works almost perfectly. i'm not hoping for a blowout; i don't think there'll be one. New England 31-30.

I agree, they've got some great coaches there. That's really my main argument when I say that Brady is not as great as everyone makes him out to be. Even Joey Harrington(the sorry QB for the Detroit Lions) could do well if he was in that system with those coaches....

[RMadd]

Quote: (Originally Posted by titan9)

Yup, ESPECIALLY Tom Brady. I can't stand him. He's worse than Brett Favre.....

the Pats are hardly overrated. remember seeing the picks a few weeks ago against the Colts? most analysts were saying Peyton & Co. were gonna run circles around New England. maybe I missed something, but Indy's loudmouth kicker was the only one who scored for the team in the entire 60 minutes. then they go into Pittsburgh, which is said to be a difficult place for visiting teams, especially this year, and beat the Steelers by 2 touchdowns. and, since the '02 Pro Bowl, they've only had a small number of players each year represent the AFC. only 4 this year, despite having the 2nd best record in the league. 3 during last year's championship run (1 of those was a replacement). 6 in 2003, when they didn't even make the playoffs (1 as an injury replacement). 3 in 2002 (following their first SB victory; 2 were injury replacements). So we're talking 16 Pro Bowlers in 4 years. and in the previous 3 years ('02-'04), w/ a total of 12 players selected, 4 of them were there only because those ahead of them got injured (injury replacements have not yet been determined for this year's game). how's that for overrated? Tom Brady isn't a powerful quarterback like Ben Roethlisberger or Brett Favre, he doesn't put up big stats like Peyton Manning or Michael Vick; he just finds a way to win, and that's really what matters. and that's more than Favre's done in the past 5 years. the Pats have managed to win this year despite a depleted secondary (they have a wide receiver--Troy Brown--playing defensive back!).

[titan9]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd)

the Pats are hardly overrated. remember seeing the picks a few weeks ago against the Colts? most analysts were saying Peyton & Co. were gonna run circles around New England. maybe I missed something, but Indy's loudmouth kicker was the only one who scored for the team in the entire 60 minutes. then they go into Pittsburgh, which is said to be a difficult place for visiting teams, especially this year, and beat the Steelers by 2 touchdowns. and, since the '02 Pro Bowl, they've only had a small number of players each year represent the AFC. only 4 this year, despite having the 2nd best record in the league. 3 during last year's championship run (1 of those was a replacement). 6 in 2003, when they didn't even make the playoffs (1 as an injury replacement). 3 in 2002 (following their first SB victory; 2 were injury replacements). So we're talking 16 Pro Bowlers in 4 years. and in the previous 3 years ('02-'04), w/ a total of 12 players selected, 4 of them were there only because those ahead of them got injured (injury replacements have not yet been determined for this year's game). how's that for overrated? Tom Brady isn't a powerful quarterback like Ben Roethlisberger or Brett Favre, he doesn't put up big stats like Peyton Manning or Michael Vick; he just finds a way to win, and that's really what matters. and that's more than Favre's done in the past 5 years. the Pats have managed to win this year despite a depleted secondary (they have a wide receiver--Troy Brown--playing defensive back!).

Oh, I'll give the Patriots more credit. They've got terrific coaches and good players who find ways to win. So I'll give them more credit then I did in the previous post. But not Tom Brady. I guess if the Pats didn't have him as their QB, maybe I wouldn't hate the Pats as much as I do. Well, I'd still be annoyed with them being in the S-Bowl for the third time in four years. I'd like to see a new team from the AFC in the S-Bowl.

[RMadd]

yeah, i see where you're coming from. you'd think, as a Rams fan, that i'd despise seeing the patriots over and over again. but i gotta give credit where credit's due.

[titan9]

Well, I'm a Titans fan first and a Lions fan(my homestate team) second. So, of course, I'm bitter(the Titans lost 17-14 to the Pats in the second round of the playoffs last year) about the Pats being in the S-Bowl what seems like every year. It's especially tough when your favorite teams don't even make the playoffs and have lackluster seasons. I'm just tired of seeing the Pats in the S-Bowl and really sick of hearing about how great Brady is. Yes, he's been apart of 2 Superbowl teams, but skillwise, I don't think he's as good of a QB as Manning, McNabb, McNair or Favre. Just my opinion of course.

[Dogstar]

Quote: (Originally Posted by titan9)

Yup, ESPECIALLY Tom Brady. I can't stand him. He's worse than Brett Favre.....

That's the most clueless statement ever. Obviously, you know nothing about Tom Brady. He does not carry a swagger the way Brett Favre does, end of story. This team, with the exception of maybe Tedy Bruschi, does not brag. They just go out, do their job and win.

And saying the Pats are overrated is yet another clueless statement. You don't win in this league without some talent and great coaching. The free-agency system makes repeating as champs just about impossible. To me, it's amazing the Pats are back in the Bowl for the second straight year. It's fine if you don't like them, but to utter such uninformed bitter-based statements is just lame and childish. I hate the Yankees with a vengeance, but I never disregarded their talent as a team. Their record speaks for itself, and so does that of the Patriots.

[Dogstar]

Quote: (Originally Posted by titan9)

Well, I'm a Titans fan first and a Lions fan(my homestate team) second. So, of course, I'm bitter(the Titans lost 17-14 to the Pats in the second round of the playoffs last year) about the Pats being in the S-Bowl what seems like every year. It's especially tough when your favorite teams don't even make the playoffs and have lackluster seasons. I'm just tired of seeing the Pats in the S-Bowl and really sick of hearing about how great Brady is. Yes, he's been apart of 2 Superbowl teams, but skillwise, I don't think he's as good of a QB as Manning, McNabb, McNair or Favre. Just my opinion of course.

Waaaa, waaaa, waaa, grow up already. Of those QBs you mentioned, only Favre has a ring. When will people realize it's a TEAM that wins a championship, not just a QB. Obviously, Bill Belichick is great at evaluating what he has because his game plans suit the talents of his team. He and the management obviously have a clue about putting together a solid team in a league in which dynasties are pretty much a thing of the past.

I'm a Red Sox fan. I went decades without my team winning. My grandmother never even saw the Sox win during her entire lifetime, so quit your whining. You're not old enough to be so bitter. Your team will someday get its chance. It's all cyclical.

[Torn Daredevil]

Quote: (Originally Posted by titan9)

Yup, ESPECIALLY Tom Brady. I can't stand him. He's worse than Brett Favre.....

Question for ya... How many Super Bowl's has Steve McNair won? Second question... How many have Favre and Brady won? Third question... How many games in a row has Brett Favre played? Fourth question... How many games in a row has Steve McNair played?

I rest my case.

[Torn Daredevil]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

He does not carry a swagger the way Brett Favre does, end of story.

What swagger is this? I have had the great pleasure of meeting Brett Favre twice, and he is one of the nicest and most humble individuals you will ever meet.

But, I agree with you that Brady is a winner, it's that cut and dry, and I believe a good guy, too.

[titan9]

*Sigh* If I didn't take this from my Patriots loving Father and Bro all the time, I'd probably be kinda angry.

As far as McNair, he(up until his ankle injury in 2003) played the second most games in a row among active QBs, behind Favre. McNair has clearly shown(and so has Favre) that he is one tough guy and plays through injuries. It's not just a physical toughness; its a mental toughness as well. The guy is tough as nails.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

And saying the Pats are overrated is yet another clueless statement. You don't win in this league without some talent and great coaching. The free-agency system makes repeating as champs just about impossible. To me, it's amazing the Pats are back in the Bowl for the second straight year. It's fine if you don't like them, but to utter such uninformed bitter-based statements is just lame and childish. I hate the Yankees with a vengeance, but I never disregarded their talent as a team. Their record speaks for itself, and so does that of the Patriots.

I later clarified my statement. The Patriots do have great coaches and they do have good players. All I've said is that I believe Brady is not that great of a QB. He played for Michigan. I watched him throughout his Michigan days. I remember the Michigan fans calling for Lloyd Carr to bench Brady and put Drew Henson in. Brady was drafted in the 6th round because, until his second year in the NFL, he was a pretty average QB. I still believe he's average, aside from the wins and the titles.(which, I believe, is because of the team he has around him, not Brady's actual talent) But I believe if a guy like Manning(or McNair) was playing for a team like New England(with great coaches and a very good defense, as well as good offensive players) that he would be every bit as successful(if not more) as Brady has been. That's the reason I dislike Brady:I'm tired of hearing about how great he is when I believe he isn't as good as everyone makes him out to be. I believe he's no Montana and that there are better players(skillwise) out there today.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

I'm a Red Sox fan. I went decades without my team winning. My grandmother never even saw the Sox win during her entire lifetime, so quit your whining. You're not old enough to be so bitter. Your team will someday get its chance. It's all cyclical.

It's not necessarily about my team. I'm just tired of seeing the same team from the AFC in the S-Bowl. I'd love to see another team in that spot. Just like you probably wanted to see the Red Sox in the Yankees spot all those years. You get tired of seeing the same team, that's the way I'm with the Patriots now. And I know my teams will go to the Super Bowl someday. It's not an issue of that. If a different team from the AFC was in the S-Bowl this year, I'd be happy.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

When will people realize it's a TEAM that wins a championship, not just a QB.

Which has been my point about Brady and that he's not the reason his team has won championships. It's been the great coaches and the team around him. ANY of the other top 10 QBs could succede in that offense with those coaches and that team. I despise Brady because I don't think he is as great as some would lead you to believe. Of course, Pats fans have a different opinion of this and I know I'll get bashed for saying it. But being from a household with two Pats fans, I'm used to that. All of this is my opinion.

[Dogstar]

Titan, you mention other good quarterbacks who would succeed in Belichick's scheme. Bottom line is, you have to be a decent quarterback to deliver. You can't tell me that A.J. Feeley would be able to pull it off, or Ryan Leaf or other stiffs that didn't make it. He's a hell of a lot better than Trent Dilfer. He has a winning mentality, and there's a whole lot more to winning than just talent. Ask Peyton Manning.

[RMadd]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

I'm a Red Sox fan. I went decades without my team winning. My grandmother never even saw the Sox win during her entire lifetime, so quit your whining. You're not old enough to be so bitter. Your team will someday get its chance. It's all cyclical.

fuck the Red Sox lol. yeah, it's cyclical. sure, some cycles are 12 months or 24 months, others are 86 years, or more (I guess in the Cubs' case, it's not so much a cycle as it is a line lol)

[RMadd]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

and there's a whole lot more to winning than just talent. Ask Peyton Manning.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing!

[Dogstar]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd)

fuck the Red Sox lol. yeah, it's cyclical. sure, some cycles are 12 months or 24 months, others are 86 years, or more (I guess in the Cubs' case, it's not so much a cycle as it is a line lol)

Hell, if the Red Sox can do it, the Cubbies can't be far behind .

[titan9]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

Titan, you mention other good quarterbacks who would succeed in Belichick's scheme. Bottom line is, you have to be a decent quarterback to deliver. You can't tell me that A.J. Feeley would be able to pull it off, or Ryan Leaf or other stiffs that didn't make it. He's a hell of a lot better than Trent Dilfer. He has a winning mentality, and there's a whole lot more to winning than just talent. Ask Peyton Manning.

Yes, I said just about any QB could succeed in that scheme. Not every QB. Feeley stinks. Ryan Leaf isn't even in the NFL anymore. My point was, if a guy like Manning was on the Patriots team, he'd be doing even better than Brady. The whole thing was, I don't believe Brady is as good(talentwise) as Manning or some of the other top tier QBs. Wins wise? Titles wise? Yeah, Brady's better, but that has more to do with his team then it has to do with his actual talent. He's a decent QB, but not great(imo) like everyone seems to make him out to be. He's got a winning mentality; that comes from playing at Michigan for four years and then having a lot of success with the Patriots right off the bat. I know, my opinion's an unpopular one, so I expected the questioning all along.