Do you let Religion dictate political views?

[Lunar Shadow]

I think you should be able to differ between religion and politics. Contrary to popular belief this is not a Christian nation, in fact most of the founding fathers where deists (Washington, Jefferson, and many more) the thing I keep in mind is that this is a country founded with freedom and liberty in mind Remember just because it is legal doesn't mean you have to do (I.E. Abortion, smoking, drinking, premarital sex.) yes these may be moral issues for you but when it comes to politics these should be non issues. These types of things are our freedoms you don't have to use them just don't condemn others for exercising their FREEDOMS! *steps off of soap box*

[JulieCitySlicker]

Still on the religion kick,I see

[Lunar Shadow]

not exactly, I have been a little preoccupied as of late with my new baby (born 7-7) I am not on a religion kick one could say. do you say a preacher is on a religion kick? It is just an important thing to me (the lack of religion more like) I find is nessisary to battle it at every turn I can yes. but it is not a kick.

[uncertaindrumer]

Isn't the point of a Democracy to give people a choice? If people choose to base their decisions on Religious views, it's their right to.

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It is just an important thing to me (the lack of religion more like) I find is nessisary to battle it at every turn I can yes.

I fidn this laughable. You don't believe anything yet you want to covince everyone else you are right. Well if you don't believe in anything, why do you GIVE a friggin crap?

[uncertaindrumer]

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These types of things are our freedoms you don't have to use them just don't condemn others for exercising their FREEDOMS!

If someone believes abortion is wrong it is because they believe it is murder. Gonna tell me THAT's a freedom? As for drinking, people can do it all they want, as long as they don't get in a car and drive and kill people. Same goes for smoking. If you want to give YOURSELF lung cancer, go ahead. Keep it out of public places where everyone else is forced to inhale a disgusting smoke.

[JulieCitySlicker]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist)

not exactly, I have been a little preoccupied as of late with my new baby (born 7-7) I am not on a religion kick one could say. do you say a preacher is on a religion kick? It is just an important thing to me (the lack of religion more like) I find is nessisary to battle it at every turn I can yes. but it is not a kick.

Um...right!

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Well if you don't believe in anything, why do you GIVE a friggin crap?

Because of people like you Uncertain people like you who try to pass laws forcing your RELIGIOUS beliefs on me. Do I restrict your rights? No I don't I don't go and help get laws past that you MUST follow that infinge on your religious beliefs. to keep with your beliefs all you have to do is not do the things that you havea right to like have an abortion (yes it is a tired example but it gets the point across) I am not forcing you to have an abortion by making it legal you now have a choice weather to get one or not. do you get what I am saying here? basically it comes down to keep your religion off my freedom and liberty and I won't force you to use your freedom.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist)

Because of people like you Uncertain people like you who try to pass laws forcing your RELIGIOUS beliefs on me.
Do I restrict your rights? No I don't I don't go and help get laws past that you MUST follow that infinge on your religious beliefs. to keep with your beliefs all you have to do is not do the things that you havea right to like have an abortion (yes it is a tired example but it gets the point across) I am not forcing you to have an abortion by making it legal you now have a choice weather to get one or not. do you get what I am saying here? basically it comes down to keep your religion off my freedom and liberty and I won't force you to use your freedom.

Ahh....now the thread starts to making some sense...


By the way,this whole thread seems a reprise !!!!!!!!!! (:sorry!)

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

... Same goes for smoking. If you want to give YOURSELF lung cancer, go ahead. Keep it out of public places where everyone else is forced to inhale a disgusting smoke.

You still will ignore evidence I have put forth about 2nd hand smoke... typical the problem is you have been brainwashed all your life in to believing anything anyone who in your circle tells you with out actually researching it for yourself. Next thing you know you are going to tell me you believe in a literal 6 day creation and that Intelligent Design should be taught in schools. I am getting off track here.

My point is I offer up proof (in this case on 2nd hand smoke) backed by multiple scientific studies and you slap them down because they do not fit in to your would view. This, my friend is what I mean when I say "You only see what you want to believe you ignore any reason and any thing put in opposition to you" you have done this repeatedly since about April when I stated frequenting again.

I really don’t know why I bother with you…

I challenge you to come to my arena Uncertain over at www.Ex-Christian.net talk to the people there see how long you last I know that I am a laymen comparison to the people over there You wouldn’t last a week come on Dario is over there and he is in a very lively discussion right now maybe you should give it a spin they just love apologists there.



see you in the fold

--Jester

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist)

Because of people like you Uncertain people like you who try to pass laws forcing your RELIGIOUS beliefs on me. Do I restrict your rights? No I don't I don't go and help get laws past that you MUST follow that infinge on your religious beliefs. to keep with your beliefs all you have to do is not do the things that you havea right to like have an abortion (yes it is a tired example but it gets the point across) I am not forcing you to have an abortion by making it legal you now have a choice weather to get one or not. do you get what I am saying here? basically it comes down to keep your religion off my freedom and liberty and I won't force you to use your freedom.

I don't recall saying premarital sex should be banned or saying that homosexual couples shouldn't be allowed to marry. That is their business. Abortion is quite different. In that case, it is the murder of an innocent being who HAS no vote, and thus they must be fought for by those who do.

Now if you take your beliefs in politics out to their ends, we shouldn't illegalize murder, drugs, polygamy or anything like that. You wanna make those legal? If you do, I'd actually respect your position more. Right now you are jsut being contradictory.

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist)

You still will ignore evidence I have put forth about 2nd hand smoke...

I don't recall any evidence about second hand smoke. And in fact, I never even brought up the fact that it harms others. I just said they should keep the disgusting stuff out of public places. Once again, taking your beliefs to their ends, we should be able to relieve ourselves in public, go naked, and heck, have intercourse in the streets. Yet we can't. Funny how you don't decry all of THAT as me imposing my religious beliefs on you.

You've lost your touch. Your arguments used to make sense. Now they don't.

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typical the problem is you have been brainwashed all your life in to believing anything anyone who in your circle tells you with out actually researching it for yourself.

Researching WHAT? I don't recall making any statements about anything that would require research.

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Next thing you know you are going to tell me you believe in a literal 6 day creation

I don't, but I know many smart people who do. It isn't an entirely ridiculous theory. Just *mostly* ridiculous

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and that Intelligent Design should be taught in schools.

No, although I definitely don't think that spontaneous generation should be taught either.

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I am getting off track here.

I'd say.

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My point is I offer up proof (in this case on 2nd hand smoke) backed by multiple scientific studies

Where? What are you talking about? Did I miss something?

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and you slap them down because they do not fit in to your would view.

I haven't had anything to slap down!! How can I slap anything down without having it there? You really have lost it, Anarkist. Not only are you contradicting yourself and making up thigns which I didn't say, you are making up evidence which you never put forth!

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This, my friend is what I mean when I say "You only see what you want to believe you ignore any reason and any thing put in opposition to you"

Actually, right now I am trying to find this smoking evidence on the thread somewhere and can't find! Is that what you mean when you say I see what I want to see? Wow... maybe the problem has gotten so pervasive I literally can't find it anywhere...

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you have done this repeatedly since about April when I stated frequenting again.

But of course you are perfectly open minded and listen to everything.

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I really don’t know why I bother with you…

Neither do I.

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I challenge you to come to my arena Uncertain over at www.Ex-Christian.net talk to the people there see how long you last I know that I am a laymen comparison to the people over there You wouldn’t last a week come on Dario is over there and he is in a very lively discussion right now maybe you should give it a spin they just love apologists there.

Why on Earth would I want to do that? The day I see you open up a discussion about how you believe the Bible is fraudulent and God doesn't exist here, is the day I come to be overwhelmed by the sheer quantity if not quality of accusations from your ex-Christian buddies who I really have no desire to associate with. Unlike you, I don't charge into forums bashing other's beliefs OR non-beliefs.

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I don't recall saying premarital sex should be banned or saying that homosexual couples shouldn't be allowed to marry. That is their business. Abortion is quite different. In that case, it is the murder of an innocent being who HAS no vote, and thus they must be fought for by those who do.

Well if you look at it you didn't have a vote 'til you were 18 and you were subject to the laws of the land anyway so are you saying that we should let EVERYONE regardless of age vote? No matter how you slice it Uncertain your view on arbortion is motivated by religious reasons (your religion says it is wrong) that is something you can not deny.

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Now if you take your beliefs in politics out to their ends, we shouldn't illegalize murder, drugs, polygamy or anything like that. You wanna make those legal? If you do, I'd actually respect your position more. Right now you are jsut being contradictory.

Actually I do believe that drugs and polygamy should not be illegal and as for murder well if you look around it is legal in some states under some circumstances (in Texas it is legal to murder as long as you tell the person when and how you are going to kill them. and in D.C. dueling is still legal). I think people have the right to govern themselves. Now don’t get me wrong I have morals just because something is legal doesn’t mean I will do it. If it were completely legal to murder I wouldn’t. I go with the philosophy of treating people as you would want to be treated. You get what you give in that respect. Keep in mind that I do have a political affiliation (Libertarian) I do have my ideals but I am smart enough to know that I have to work with the system to change it 

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I don't recall any evidence about second hand smoke. And in fact, I never even brought up the fact that it harms others. I just said they should keep the disgusting stuff out of public places. Once again, taking your beliefs to their ends, we should be able to relieve ourselves in public, go naked, and heck, have intercourse in the streets. Yet we can't. Funny how you don't decry all of THAT as me imposing my religious beliefs on you.

I checked the threat I thought it was a discussion you were involved in and it turns out you never posted in it you may have read it and forgotten it.... fair enough

and for the record I am for public nudity as relieving yourself in public there are health concerns about that and I can't think of many people who would want to have intercourse in the street (I know I wouldn't) but agian what ever I am not say that any of thoes things are or are not imposing on your religious beliefs.

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I don't, but I know many smart people who do. It isn't an entirely ridiculous theory. Just *mostly* ridiculous

Thats refreshing

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

No...

thats also refreshing

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Actually, right now I am trying to find this smoking evidence on the thread somewhere and can't find! Is that what you mean when you say I see what I want to see? Wow... maybe the problem has gotten so pervasive I literally can't find it anywhere...

http://www.creedfeed.com/community/s...2&page=2&pp=15
there is your link for the proof about 2nd hand smoke it is in this thread

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Why on Earth would I want to do that? The day I see you open up a discussion about how you believe the Bible is fraudulent and God doesn't exist here, is the day I come to be overwhelmed by the sheer quantity if not quality of accusations from your ex-Christian buddies who I really have no desire to associate with. Unlike you, I don't charge into forums bashing other's beliefs OR non-beliefs.

Oh believe me I have been a member on many Christian boards the problem is that the second I raise a voice in protest BOOM I get banned I have been on Christianteenforums.com and Christianforums.com as well because the don't want to hear a different point of view so the second you say anything to the effect of "I don't believe that god exists" Boom Banned

Now I am more than happy to joint this board of yours if I am not going to get banned just for being an Atheist otherwise I am not going to waste my time. I can guarantee that you won't get banned for your beliefs you can say what ever you want and the admin will not bat an eye. So do tell me Uncertain will this be a waste of my time or not?

[RMadd]

i, personally, do allow those beliefs to influence my decisions. that is not to say that i support this country becoming a theocracy. i do feel, however, that the morality espoused by my religious views is correct & the best (if i didn't believe that, then what would be the point of holding any convictions). so, because i feel they are correct and proper, i pursue their support and hopeful implementation. and compared to many in my denomination, my beliefs are toned down somewhat. knowing a handful of homosexuals, through work and school, i do not hate them. but, as per god's judgment, homosexuality is a sin. of course, in god's eyes, all sins are equal, so i do not feel that we heteros are superior to the homos in this regard.

[RMadd]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist)

Next thing you know you are going to tell me you believe in a literal 6 day creation and that Intelligent Design should be taught in schools. I am getting off track here.

while i'm still unsure regarding the proposition of a literal or figurative time period (i do believe that our language & translations, when compared to the initial language the OT was produced in, do affect many of these nuances that are now widely debated... because when God created the universe, there was no sense of time until after he had begun creating... that's not to say i don't believe he could possibly have, since he is all-powerful, but these 2 circumstances--language & perspective--do leave it open for interpretation.... not to mention the doubt on the part of some that anything is fathomable and that, instead, a whole bunch of nothing went kaboom)... but i digress.......
my issue is with the opposition to the teaching of intelligent design or creationism in public schools. as with any subject, students are not forced to believe what they are taught. while some of the more objective subjects (such as math) do require a bit more faith in the teacher's abilities, interpretations of other subjective material (politics, history, philosophy, etc, etc, etc) are certainly wide-ranging. i went to a public high school; i was taught evolutionary theory in my freshman bio class. inasmuch as evolution is a theory, and not a proven scientific fact, so too is the creation of the world a theory (belief held by a number of people), and unable to be scientifically proven (i will admit this; but religion, or at least christianity, is a matter of faith, not science). i have no problem with the instruction of evolutionary theory, creation theory, etc, so long as each is presented equally, and the students are made aware that, even if any of the theories is, indeed, true, it is not up to the instructor to decide this for the students. in a history class i took last fall (the history of the world, dating from prehistory thru 1400), our professor used a text that included the creation myths of a number of world religions, past and present. one of our tasks, after reading these myths, was to list the similarities and differences between all. and while no two were identical, they certainly bore a number of similarities.
a side point to this debate is the issue of acceptance. this seems to be one idea which liberals are always pleading neo-cons for: acceptance of homosexuality, acceptance of racial equality, etc. however, it's unusual that, when an issue such as acceptance or acknowledgement of certain religious views are pressed upon irreligious liberals (and some conservatives as well, i suppose), they are flatly refuted, such as with this issue over the instruction of creationism or intelligent design in a public school setting.