Most in U.S. Favor Death if Saddam Is Convicted

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

The distinction between killing someone and wanting to kill them is negligible. If you had the opportunity would you execute him?



Of course it was sadistic and if he doesn't repent he will most likely burn in Hell. But I am not God and I will not decide.



I am not minimizing the atrocity of murder. You are. I think what he did was terrible. I don't think continung murder will make it less terrible.



If you believe in Christ you are. He specifically said *NOT* to judge others, so that you yourself may not be judged.



It is logical, if you take Christianty as a starting point. If you take the secular worldy view (revenge at all costs), you are right, it is not logical.



No.



Oh so you know God's will now? You don't know what His will is, apparently.



Yes. Again, Christ told us life, not death. You want people to die. I want them to live.



And yet I am not the super conservative war monger who is trying to force democracy upon the middle east...



I am talking about morals. Of course I am going to use the Bible to back up claims of morality.



Again, this has nothing to do with anything



We should strive to be like Christ. Did Christ heal people, or kill them? He healed them. So while I try to save life, you go on ahead and keep killing them.



You want someone to burn in Hell. I say again, that is indeed sadistic. Only Satan *wants* people to burn in Hell.



If someone were to rape someoe else, you would call them a rapist. Is that judgemental? I think not. If someone were to wish Hell upon someone else, would that be justification for saying it was a sadistic notion? I think so.



Duh.



Oh so you are God now? Great job. You jsut told us all what God is planning to do. While you are at it, can you tell us when Jesus will be returning? How about his exact birthdate? How about what really happened at the beginning of the universe?

Oh, you can't answer those questions? Then stop condemning people to Hell.



Not if he were to repent and convert. Will he? I highly doubt it. Does that mean you know beyond a shadow of a doubt? Absolutely not.

You get on my case for judging a tyrannical murderer... but you go right ahead and judge me. You judge a lot of people, Scott Stapp included. Care to explain your hypocrisy? Saddam Hussein murdered thousands upon thousands of people. If you commit murder, then you're most likely on a path to Hell. C'mon, you should know that. I'm not sending him to Hell, God is. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Him, not me. I don't want people to die... I want people to carry out whatever they feel is just in response to the thousands of deaths that Saddam Hussein is linked to. If the Iraqis use execution as a means of finding justice... then they have every right to execute Saddam Hussein. Not everybody is a Christian... or your type of Christian.

I've said that Saddam Hussein will most likely go to Hell for what he's done... and you turn around and say that I should "stop condemning people to Hell" as if I've made a regular practice of condemning multitudes of people to Hell. I'm making an observation. Someone as evil as Hussein is most likely headed downstairs, not up. I would never be an executioner, nor would I allow myself to be put in the position to execute someone... period. However, some people find justice in knowing that the person who murdered their loved one is no longer living. Instead of calling me sadistic, try calling the insurgents who execute innocent humanitarian aid workers a derogatory name for once.

[RalphyS]

Interesting!

I want to get in the Christian part of the debate a bit.
Obviously as an atheïst, hell or heaven, doesn't matter to me, because the only downstairs were going to is five feet under or perhaps a 5 minute fire, that we both won't feel a thing off.
But from the Christian view I always understood someone could repent and convert in the last minute of his life, after a life of terrible misdeeds, say Saddam, and then enter the kingdom of heaven. While someone like Gandhi would go to hell because he did not believe in the Christian God. The American prisons are filled with murderers, who have found God, who are getting state-help going to heaven. Wouldn't it be better to punish them here for their crimes be keeping them locked up and not sending them to this paradisy thing called heaven?

Another thing, now with the news of the gospel of Judas?
Where is Judas? Heaven or hell?

[Ana4Stapp]

Hey guys...We are in 21 century! We arent barbarians who have death as solution. We have JUSTICE. I mean, we have to use justice to punish Saddam for all his odious crimes. Not to compare ourselves with him...

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Hey guys...We are in 21 century! We arent barbarians who have death as solution. We have JUSTICE. I mean, we have to use justice to punish Saddam for all his odious crimes. Not to compare ourselves with him...

So if the Iraqis find justice in executing him you're alright with that?

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

So if the Iraqis find justice in executing him you're alright with that?

Justice in 21 century means LAW. Execution is a barbarian method.

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Justice in 21 century means LAW. Execution is a barbarian method.

Who are you to define what the 21st Century is? He broke multiple laws and they find execution to be a way of carrying out justice for the deaths of thousands of innocent people.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Who are you to define what the 21st Century is? He broke multiple laws and they find execution to be a way of carrying out justice for the deaths of thousands of innocent people.

Im a person (a citizen) who believes in justice and in law ...And it has nothing to do with 'define' 21st century...this is the reality...we cant allow violence as a solution to his crimes. ..We are in 21st century...We need to use values, morals instead of passionate feelings like revenge...

Im really surprised that you dont know what 21 century is...


EDIT:Oh... Im not surprised ..you are constantly advocating war as solution for almost everything ...isnt it?

[metalchris25]

The Bible says eye for an eye.

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Im a person (a citizen) who believes in justice and in law ...And it has nothing to do with 'define' 21st century...this is the reality...we cant allow violence as a solution to his crimes. ..We are in 21st century...We need to use values, morals instead of passionate feelings like revenge...

Im really surprised that you dont know what 21 century is...


EDIT:Oh... Im not surprised ..you are constantly advocating war as solution for almost everything ...isnt it?

If Iraqi values and morals deem it necessary to execute a man as ruthless as Hussein... they have the right to punish him in in that fashion. The rule of law is not constant. It changes from culture to culture. Many Arab nations practice the death penalty. The 21st century doesn't mean that everybody has the same set of values. It's just a new century...

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by metalchris25)

The Bible says eye for an eye.

WOW!!! The most absurd thing i read here...

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

If Iraqi values and morals deem it necessary to execute a man as ruthless as Hussein... they have the right to punish him in in that fashion. The rule of law is not constant. It changes from culture to culture. Many Arab nations practice the death penalty. The 21st century doesn't mean that everybody has the same set of values. It's just a new century...

No one is saying that we need to have the same values...its hypocrisy. Im not judging the cultures that exist all over the world...but its weird that a person who was raised in a democratic countrie that claims for rights like justice/law (even though allow death penalty) who studied/studies social science as History believes in execution as a solution to punish Saddam Hussein...I mean its not making justice its using revenge...Its not rational.You are defending DEATH.Its imoral.
Cant you see that?

And yeah...I dont want morals to change just because we are in the 21 st century...but I think we have to be/act 'different' from barbarians methods in barbarian ages...

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

No one is saying that we need to have the same values...its hypocrisy. Im not judging the cultures that exist all over the world...but its weird that a person who was raised in a democratic countrie that claims for rights like justice/law (even though allow death penalty) who studied/studies social science as History believes in execution as a solution to punish Saddam Hussein...I mean its not making justice its using revenge...Its not rational.You are defending DEATH.Its imoral.
Cant you see that?

And yeah...I dont want morals to change just because we are in the 21 st century...but I think we have to be/act 'different' from barbarians methods in barbarian ages...

If people find justice in executing the man that ordered the deaths of their loved ones... don't you think they should be able to punish him in whatever way they find necessary? If someone raped, and then brutually murdered my little daughter... I would find more justice in their execution as opposed to knowing that American tax dollars are paying to keep that person alive in a prison cell. Justice is different in various cultures. I mean, Brazil has an alarming murder rate... what does your government do? Have a prison full of killers?

Saddam Hussein didn't treat the people he murdered with respect. In fact, he had his men dig giant holes to stack the bodies in. Tell me one good reason why the same people he tortured should treat him in a respectful manner? It's sad because had Adolf Hitler been captured alive, you would've defended him against the people who would be trying him in court. The millions of people who had to deal with the consequences of his actions.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

If people find justice in executing the man that ordered the deaths of their loved ones... don't you think they should be able to punish him in whatever way they find necessary? If someone raped, and then brutually murdered my little daughter... I would find more justice in their execution as opposed to knowing that American tax dollars are paying to keep that person alive in a prison cell. Justice is different in various cultures. I mean, Brazil has an alarming murder rate... what does your government do? Have a prison full of killers?

Saddam Hussein didn't treat the people he murdered with respect. In fact, he had his men dig giant holes to stack the bodies in. Tell me one good reason why the same people he tortured should treat him in a respectful manner? It's sad because had Adolf Hitler been captured alive, you would've defended him against the people who would be trying him in court. The millions of people who had to deal with the consequences of his actions.

Okay Chase by your (i) logical point all we have to do its use the 'lex talionis' ...How about using Code of Hammurabi instead of American Constitution?

In my country (that by the way has criminals as the same way your country has...)we have LAWS and we use them...and yeah criminals are in prison jails to pay for the crimes, because my governement do respect humans rights... we dont have copies l of Guantanamos prison here...

And I cant belive you are saying that I could defend Hitler...Im sorry that you cant reply to my posts with some kind of coherence...

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Okay Chase by your (i) logical point all we have to do its use the 'lex talionis' ...How about using Code of Hammurabi instead of American Constitution?

In my country (that by the way has criminals as the same way your country has...)we have LAWS and we use them...and yeah criminals are in prison jails to pay for the crimes, because my governement do respect humans rights... we dont have copies l of Guantanamos prison here...

And I cant belive you are saying that I could defend Hitler...Im sorry that you cant reply to my posts with some kind of coherence...

Well, seeing as you're defending Saddam Hussein... I don't think you defending Adolf Hitler is much of a stretch.

[RalphyS]

There is a difference in being against the death penalty and defending the acts of criminals/murderers/dictators, Chase, but it's a fine line and you've yet to show subtlety on these boards

You remind me a lot of the old style westerns, where the good guy wore the white hat and the bad guy wore the black, probably the same movies that inspired Dubya's notion of 'you're either for us or against us'. Well, let me tell you, the world isn't black and white, there's a whole lot of grey around.

Oh and about the money that it costs to keep murderer's in jail, it costs the taxpayers more money if someone is sentenced to death, than to keep him in jail for the rest of their life, but I do not think money is really the issue. Showing people that killing is wrong by killing people is really stupid.