Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies.....

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by snake81)

Ok, before you go off here's what I pulled up.



Now my main thing is that if a person comes from a straight family, (And Im talking about they are 100% straight, not pretending to be straight due to society) and that person turns out to be gay. I cant see that being genetics because genetics would have to be something that was in the family. And it does happen that way.

And it has also happened to where people who considered themselves homosexual chose to be hetrosexual and actually stopped there homosexual behavior (And without hiding)

2 things what gives Richard Cohen (a news man and author with M.S.) the credentials to say such he is not a scientist so he could have been speakign from opinion. and 2 this was back in 2000 many things including our understanding of genetic science has changed drastically (stem cell research is a great example).

to address you 100% straight family strawman I have but one response genetic mutation happens thats how evolution works... and yes it has been demonstrated that evolution happens heck even pope JPII believed in evolution.

yeah a homosexual can act hetrosexual it doesn't mean that they are. hell I can act gay and kiss a guy friend I have full on the lips with some tounge action it doesn't mean that I am gay so whats the point of this comment?

[uncertaindrumer]

Now hold on, I am not arguing anything based on Faith at all. I know you love lumping me in with fundamentlists (and going by the definition of the word I am fundamentalist about some things), but I have NO PROBLEM AT ALL saying homosexuality could be a genetically inherited condition.

Now, is there proof of this? No. Neither is there proof in the other direction. We simply don't know. I still think it is something with varying degrees, but that also could be wrong. NO MATTER WHAT it happens to be, I would not have any trouble religion-wise.

So please stop saying that I am arguing based on faith. I am not even arguing at all, for that matter.

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote:

heck even pope JPII believed in evolution.

Of course he did! It has substantial scientific evidence!

Geez, when will people realize Catholics are much more sane when it comes to science.

[SecretWeapon]

Evolution is a pretty vague word, it basically means a slow change over a long
period of time. However, usually when people refer to evolutionary theory,
they are implying that all life came about from non-life by a series of
hopelessly improbable "happenings" (which are statistically impossible) and
then life has been slowly bettering itself over the past several million years,
(which has never been proven to be possible) and mutations have created
different species (which has been proven impossible).

Microevolution? Perhaps. Macroevolution? Not possible.

As for proof, if you're refering to the observations made in
Peppermoths and Galapigos Finches were examples of selective
breeding, the more probable to survive (dark) moths
did survive, just as the more probable to survive finches
(the 'bigger beaked') did survive. Finches did not mutate bigger beaks,
they already had them, the moths did not make themselves darker, they were already dark.


Back on subject, yes I do act in faith, I am a Christian. I thought that you knew what the word 'faith' meant. Of course I have faith in the Bible.
All I said was that the Bible says it's a sin. I do believe it to be a
choice, thus my arguing. I have heard stories of homosexuals becoming christians, and then becoming heterosexual again.

You could say that they are just lying out of guilt, but 1) you are
accusing someone you don't even know of being a hypocrite and
2) I could say that there are open homosexuals who are just lying,
because they believe it is not by choice and they want everyone to
believe it their way, even if it means lying about they're sexuality.

Neither of our arguements would have more credibility than the other,
as it is impossible to determine (for sure) who is or is not lying.

According to you, it is all natural, there is no choice. If that is so,
than we should be able to take one homosexual man and one
heterosexual man (in a double blind test) and take them and
get MRIs of them, and then it could be shown, visualy, who is
homosexual and who is not.

You could point out the brain structure which belies homosexuality?
You could run a urine sample and tell me which is gay and which is strait?
You could from a blood sample prove to me that I am gay or not gay?

Because that is what you are saying if it is a result of brian structure,
hormones, and genes.

Also, if it was not choice, why don't we see it (as evolutionary theory
says we should) in every single species and sub-species of animal on the
planet?

And don't bring up that one type of goat, because that proves nothing.

We should see
Gay dogs
gay cats
gay hampsters
gay alligators
gay chimpanzees
gay trout
gay rhinocerous
gay girrafes
gay snakes
gay eagles
gay blubirds
gay octopus
gay ostriches
etc
etc
etc

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Of course he did! It has substantial scientific evidence!

Geez, when will people realize Catholics are much more sane when it comes to science.

not picking on your here UD I know that there are more Catholics on the board than just you and it was for that reason I stated that.

and to note your privious comments I apologize for luming you in the group there you are right you were not arguing from the bible I guess I am just so used to you and I being on the completly different sides of any given issue you could call it for of habbit

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon)

Evolution is a pretty vague word, it basically means a slow change over a long
period of time. However, usually when people refer to evolutionary theory,
they are implying that all life came about from non-life by a series of
hopelessly improbable "happenings" (which are statistically impossible) and
then life has been slowly bettering itself over the past several million years,
(which has never been proven to be possible) and mutations have created
different species (which has been proven impossible).

impossible no improbable yes just because you yourself are not able to concive how A Biogenesis could be possible doesn't make it impossible besides it is no more outragous than what you are saying (fro a scientific standpoint) you say "my big invisible say daddy waved his hand and there were plants and animals and people 2 people who comitted incests to populate the panet.

Quote:

Microevolution? Perhaps. Macroevolution? Not possible.

the distinction of micro and macroevolution is spliting hairs if one is possible the other must be possible. tell me what happens when you have a bunch of microevolution events happen over a long period of time? answer MACROEVOLUTION!

Quote:

As for proof, if you're refering to the observations made in
Peppermoths and Galapigos Finches were examples of selective
breeding, the more probable to survive (dark) moths
did survive, just as the more probable to survive finches
(the 'bigger beaked') did survive. Finches did not mutate bigger beaks,
they already had them, the moths did not make themselves darker, they were already dark.

do show a reference about this selective breeding you speak of I would be interested in reading it.

Quote:

Back on subject, yes I do act in faith, I am a Christian. I thought that you knew what the word 'faith' meant. Of course I have faith in the Bible.
All I said was that the Bible says it's a sin. I do believe it to be a
choice, thus my arguing. I have heard stories of homosexuals becoming christians, and then becoming heterosexual again.

its good that you can admit you are a christian more power to you. yes I do know what faith is. faith is acceptance of things that can not be explained but in this case it can be explained but you chose to ignore the explaination because it doesn't go with your world view so you shut down and say impossible god would never....(fill in the balnk) and then you condemn going on and on about sin and how evil it is. it is quite typical you know I have seen it all to many times. there was a time a scientist was branded a haratic for sayig the earth was round... religion as always trailed scince in some cases by centries (the catholic church didn't admit they were wrong about the earth being round until the 1990's) but there are many examples of such. but you are blined by it and thats ok because you'll have to live with what ever decision you make. so own it

Quote:

You could say that they are just lying out of guilt, but 1) you are
accusing someone you don't even know of being a hypocrite and
2) I could say that there are open homosexuals who are just lying,
because they believe it is not by choice and they want everyone to
believe it their way, even if it means lying about they're sexuality.

Neither of our arguements would have more credibility than the other,
as it is impossible to determine (for sure) who is or is not lying.

how many homosexuals do you know I mean really know honestly unless you have some sort of personal base for this statment then just shut up.

Quote:

According to you, it is all natural, there is no choice. If that is so,
than we should be able to take one homosexual man and one
heterosexual man (in a double blind test) and take them and
get MRIs of them, and then it could be shown, visualy, who is
homosexual and who is not.

thats right according to me and quite a few other scientists.... and as far as your other comments here I could bring up Alfred Kinsey but I don't think you would know who that is and if you did I think you would dismiss him quicker that I could blink because there is no point in arguing with some one who is so set in thier ways and who prefers ignorance over knowlage I really don't knwo why I even bother with it.

Quote:

Also, if it was not choice, why don't we see it (as evolutionary theory
says we should) in every single species and sub-species of animal on the
planet?

And don't bring up that one type of goat, because that proves nothing.

We should see
Gay dogs

Yes there is homosexuality there

Quote:

gay cats

there too

Quote:

gay hampsters
gay alligators

don't know about any studies done here on these animals

Quote:

gay chimpanzees

You know that there are

Quote:

gay trout

how could tell? they lay eggs

Quote:

gay rhinocerous
gay girrafes
gay snakes
gay eagles
gay blubirds
gay octopus
gay ostriches
etc
etc

are you getting the picture here?? or do you need another tounge lashing

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow)

not picking on your here UD I know that there are more Catholics on the board than just you and it was for that reason I stated that.

Without trying to insult them, most Catholics haven't a clue what the Church teaches.

Quote:

and to note your privious comments I apologize for luming you in the group there you are right you were not arguing from the bible I guess I am just so used to you and I being on the completly different sides of any given issue you could call it for of habbit

Yeah, I know. It always feels a bit dirty when we agree on something... lol

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Yeah, I know. It always feels a bit dirty when we agree on something... lol

LOL

[Rocketqueen]

have i fell behind in this thread i will hushhhhhhhhh because one of those gay Alligators may bites my head off

[snake81]

Ok, getting back on topic, I've read all over the internet that there isnt a specific gene to tell if someone is homosexual, alot of it has to do with enviroment and choice, now you cant tell me that there are gay animals, that cannot be proven, I dont care what scientist does studies you cant prove and tell me by a gene that its gay, cause I could easily do the same thing and do some tests on a gene and just say its the animals gay gene

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by snake81)

Ok, getting back on topic, I've read all over the internet that there isnt a specific gene to tell if someone is homosexual, alot of it has to do with enviroment and choice, now you cant tell me that there are gay animals, that cannot be proven, I dont care what scientist does studies you cant prove and tell me by a gene that its gay, cause I could easily do the same thing and do some tests on a gene and just say its the animals gay gene

thats great I read somwhere that Hitler was a transexual doen't make it ture. Besides here when we say "I read somewhere" it is customary to post a link in what you are refering to. That way we can see what you are talking about and proceed to agree with it or refute it. The other reason you post a link to any given article that you talk about is to give credit where credit is due.

[SecretWeapon]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow)

the distinction of micro and macroevolution is spliting hairs if one is possible the other must be possible. tell me what happens when you have a bunch of microevolution events happen over a long period of time? answer MACROEVOLUTION!

It would seem to me that you are unaware of the difference between
micro and macro evolution. Also, I did not say that it was (even) probable
for microevolution- I said possible. I does seem outlandish to say that
all life on Earth today is because not just one, but several several instances
of macroevolution, which are, in many cases, hopelessly improbable happened.
It gets to a point where the idea of a Creator is not more extreme than
the idea that there was no creator.

Quote:

do show a reference about this selective breeding you speak of I would be interested in reading it.

I'm suprised you've never heard about this, it's an arguement I've heard
time and again, or maybe you are guilty of what evolutionists accuse
creationist of - not listening to the other side's arguement.

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/09nsel05.htm
I used a 'fundie' site again because it was the quickest place I could think
to go to post here, but I first read about this in a book somewhere, I believe. It's not a rare topic among creationists, I'm surprised you aren't familiar with it.

[metalchris25]

what a load.

[Rocketqueen]

Quote: (Originally Posted by metalchris25)

what a load.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA You Got Admire Their persistiance GOD AND SCIENTIST Or How Ever Ya Spell It Have Always Went Hand And Hand From A Certian Point People Who BELIEVE IN GOD ARE Always Asking For Something From so in the world of science IT GIVES OUR CREATOR CLARTIY To Drive Theme Crazy MAKE,em PROOVE THAT HE DONT EXSIST HARDER and they are doing a great job HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I saw episode On The Tv Show FUTURERUMA From The Makers Of The Simpson Where The Tin Robot I Forget His Name GOT To Float In Space And Become God Before The Ending Of The Show it had a great message That A LOT Of CHRISTIAN PEOPLE WOULD HAVE LOOKED OVER because its NAUGHTY CARTOONS we dont whatch that trash in our house

[metalchris25]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rocketqueen)

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA You Got Admire Their persistiance GOD AND SCIENTIST Or How Ever Ya Spell It Have Always Went Hand And Hand From A Certian Point People Who BELIEVE IN GOD ARE Always Asking For Something From so in the world of science IT GIVES OUR CREATOR CLARTIY To Drive Theme Crazy MAKE,em PROOVE THAT HE DONT EXSIST HARDER and they are doing a great job HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I saw episode On The Tv Show FUTURERUMA From The Makers Of The Simpson Where The Tin Robot I Forget His Name GOT To Float In Space And Become God Before The Ending Of The Show it had a great message That A LOT Of CHRISTIAN PEOPLE WOULD HAVE LOOKED OVER because its NAUGHTY CARTOONS we dont whatch that trash in our house

right on. i love futurama, but i haven't seen that episode.