Legalize Drugs?

[Lady Valkyrie]

No it means... Drugs Are Really Expensive

[Lady Valkyrie]

Quote:

Originally posted by allison
We all make mistakes, but fixing them takes alot of strength, especially recovering from drug addiction.  Maybe you weren't strong when you were doing the drugs, but isn't it true that you're strong now? Give yourself some credit!

I understand your point. And yeah in some areas I am stronger than I once was. In other areas I am so weak. That's for your kind words, allison.

[Altair]

Confession time, is it?
Lady, I'm impressed at your resolve. Power to you, my friend!

However, I'd like to view this topic from a point of principle. I do not advocate drugs. On the contrary. I truly believe that people need to let go of their vices and crutches, those things they "think" they need: fancy clothes, electronic toys, luxurious food, big houses, nice cars, and I imagine drugs would fit also. These things we think we need are nothing more than chains that shackle us. I'm not saying that we should isolate ourselves from all material things and live as hermits. We just can't be servants to these false masters. The only master we need is that special person in all of us; to love one another as ourselves is the greatest goal.

We need to realize that the fewer things we need, the freer we are. Having said that, I'd also like to propose the idea that we must also strive for true freedom and faith in one another. In my mind, this means releasing the ban on objects and ideas that we fear because they pose some kind of potential threat. Now, certainly we must outlaw the possession of atomic weapons and other materials of mass destruction. But, drugs?

Criminalization of drugs has failed in its attempt to stop or even curtail use. Research has shown that, regardless of the severity of penalties, people still use drugs at the same general rates. This shouldn't come as a surprise. People break laws. Duh! In criminalizing drugs, all wev'e done, as a society, is make a bunch of criminals out of a bunch of basically harmless people that need help, not bars. In addition to that, we're stripping our own wallets supporting the retention of these people and the campaigns aimed at fighting drugs, all to no avail.

I believe we should legalize drugs, take the underground sellers out of the picture, and use the money now being wasted and the money we could make from the taxes to support education. People are going to use drugs whether it's against the law or not. At least we could clean up the act a little and maybe, through education, teach a better way.

Why slap someone on the wrist for doing wrong when you can teach them the right way in the first place?

[Aimee]

Altair
I agree and I disagree. I agree that we should decriminalize drugs, that they are only putting people behind bars who need help, as you've said. I agree that we all have certain crutches that we can live without. But I can't agree that all of these things are not necessary to life. Life is something to be experienced, and if gadgets and vehicles like cars and airplanes can help me experience life more fully, I say great! But that is off the topic a bit. As far as drugs go, I believe that we need them in some way. Like after a death, a family has a wake where we all get toasted and cry a lot. Liquor may be your drug of choice then or maybe it's weed or maybe it's just a pack of cigarrettes, but it's something that helps cut the pain a bit.
By the way, legalizing marijuana takes it off the black market and keeps it from becoming a gateway to more potentially harmful drugs.
My personal agenda shines through.

[Aimee]

Quote:

Dare = Drugs Are Really Expensive

That had me cracking up!

[Dogstar]

Thoughtful arguments on both sides. Here's my two cents, for what it's worth.

I agree, Altair, that the more we shed our material selves, the freer we become. I have done my best in the last year to declutter, as I like to say. I have donated all kinds of stuff I feel I don't need anymore. It has been liberating to say the least. It seems the more we are plugged in the less free time we have to really appreciate what's important in life--people. 'Course, if I didn't have this electronic gadget, I wouldn't be conversing with some very cool people here...But I digress.

I also agree with Aimee, that some of our *vices* can be helpful in a small way, so long as they are not abused to the point where it interferes with good living. I'm one for a glass or two of wine, a bottle of beer or whatever. To be honest, I like the taste of the stuff and getting a little buzz on doesn' t hurt me once in a while. Everything in moderation.

With regard to legalizing marijuana, I agree it should be for the many reasons you two stated previously. I think the money could be better spent educating people and providing help for those who are addicted. I have a good friend who used marijuana to get through testicular cancer. He says it saved him. I believe him.

[Altair]

Quote:

Originally posted by Aimee
Altair
But I can't agree that all of these things are not necessary to life.  Life is something to be experienced, and if gadgets and vehicles like cars and airplanes can help me experience life more fully, I say great!  But that is off the topic a bit.  As far as drugs go, I believe that we need them in some way.  Like after a death, a family has a wake where we all get toasted and cry a lot.  Liquor may be your drug of choice then or maybe it's weed or maybe it's just a pack of cigarrettes, but it's something that helps cut the pain a bit.  
By the way, legalizing marijuana takes it off the black market and keeps it from becoming a gateway to more potentially harmful drugs.  
My personal agenda shines through.

I think we have a semantics problem here. Let us take a look at the definition "need."

Need: 2 a : a lack of something requisite, desirable, or useful b : a physiological or psychological requirement for the well-being of an organism

Now, I understand your angle; drugs or certain materials things can potentially alter our experience in a seemingly advantageous way. I simply want to take "need" to the extreme level.

If your well-being is dependent upon material things, even alcohol, then you are bound by those things. I simply believe, while they may seemingly help, they are not absolutely necessary, and to realize this is a matter of liberation. Of course, I don't expect you to elevate to such a high level of existence so easily. It does take determination and desire. But, with some perseverance, we can break on through and elevate ourselves. I do believe we are capable of being content with what naturally have. Unfortunately, we have been spoiled by our societal environment.

Have you tried living a life in a simplistic matter, denying yourself luxuries, or rather choosing abstenance from luxuries? It seems reasonable to me that premature judgements are not accurate accounts of reality. In other words, don't knock it until you've tried it.


However, I do understand and respect your theory that alcohol is mandatory in the face of a devestating loss. I'd just rather prescribe to a different theory.

One final thought: I'm not saying that we completely abstain from material things. Again, let's simply not be servants to these things. They are not our masters.

[Dogstar]

Ok, perhaps I'm a bit more of a linear thinker, here, and pardon me if this sounds like a stupid question, but are you saying abstain from things like our music as well, which require a few material things to enjoy? In my case, I guess I need music in the true sense of the word.

[LadySilk]

All these arguments are so well thought out and excellently written and I respect all of your ideas and opinions. I think that marijuana should be legal and the reason is very simple. It is not addictive and having it for personal use is harming no one. Alcohol and tobacco are both legal and last year I lost an uncle to those "drugs". These can be much more harmful in terms of health issues. There are all kinds of vices out there from gambling to herion to hurting other people. In the long run the time, energy, and money spent debating this whole issue of marijuana could be spent more effectively dealing with other crimes and helping people with other crutches. I don't think other drugs should be legal, but marijuana also has health benefits for people with chronic illnesses. Furthermore, it is not a gateway to other drugs. People move on to hard drugs because of their lives, lifestyles, and inner problems. Not everyone who has used marijuana goes on to have a drug problem.

anyway just my opinion.

[Altair]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dogstar
Ok, perhaps I'm a bit more of a linear thinker, here, and pardon me if this sounds like a stupid question, but are you saying abstain from things like our music as well, which require a few material things to enjoy? In my case, I guess I need music in the true sense of the word.

Dogstar, I understand your point. I love music and really seem to need it, too. And, at my stage of life, I choose to have music. In fact, I'll use the term "need" lightly here by saying I need music because I want it.

However, on a more idealistic side, I know, in my heart, I or you, do not absolutely need music. We can both learn to live, survive, and even prosper without music, even as ludicrous at that sounds. One has to believe that they can be fullfilled in this life simply by the moment to moment experience and whatever that experience encompasses, music or not, drugs or not; just the breath of life, the flowing of this living river, so to speak.


I really like these lyrics by Bono and think they fit this discussion. They come from the song "Kite" and go like this...
"I want you to know
that you don't need me anymore
I want you to know
you don't need anyone
or anything at all"

interestingly, he explores these ideas in the song "Walk On"...

"An love is not the easy thing,
the only baggage that you can bring,
is all that you can't leave behind...
leave it behind,
you've got to leave it behind,
all that you fashion,
all that you make,
all that you build,
all that you break,
all that you measure,
all that you steal,
all this you can leave behind,
all that you reason,
all that you sense,
all that you speak,
all you dress up,
all that you scheme..."

Uh, perhaps there is one exception. We do need each other. It's the only thing that makes this emptiness bareable.

[Dogstar]

Ok, I think I see where you are coming from, but why must our existence or experiences on this earth simply be bearable? Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly take pleasure in my non-material experiences, too: A light summer breeze, warm sunshine, a beautiful blue sky, the sounds of the ocean, a restful nap, these bring me great joy, and as you mentioned, each other. Loving others, IMHO, is the greatest joy of them all.
Are you saying we are here basically to suffer and just survive? Again, please forgive me if this sounds like a dumb question. I'm just curious about your perspective because it's rare in these times.

A little off topic here, but I still can't get my family to stop buying me things, even though I have told them outright that while I appreciate their thoughts, I have no more room in my life for material gifts. I have tried to get them to donate to chariities instead, but so far, I have not been successful. The worst is Christmas, IMHO. I really wish we all could stop with the maniacal spending. My idea of a perfect Christmas is to get together with the people I love, have a great meal with them and just enjoy each other's company, maybe sing some Christmas carols and just hang out.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Altair I have to agree with you in the aspect of "needs". Today's society thinks that cable and satellite TV, telephone, and high speed internet are "needs". I've lived in poverty most of my life. There were times I had to choose between buying medicine for my kids or buying food for my kids. There have been a lot of times that I didn't have cable, phone, internet, a car, or the luxury of buying new clothes when I needed them. I had to go to Goodwill for clothes at times. There has been the really, really, hard times when I carried my water from a nearby creek, bioled it for drinking and for baths because I didn't have enough money to pay for my water bills and it got turned off. All this happened way before I even got on the drugs. So I have a proper perspective on what is a true need and what is a desire or a want that makes life more fun.

About the "need" for alcohol for the death of a loved one. What are the effects of alcohol beside the physical stammering slurred speech, and the stumbling about. It's the "numbing" effects. You are just numbing your feelings when you drink. The fact that the loved one is dead doesn't change. Sooner or later you will have to sober up and deal with the grieving process. I have been through many funerals concerning my own loved ones. I've also turned to the alcohol after my first husband left me and our children on my daughter's birthday with my best friend. That right there was like the grieving process. No matter how much I drank when I sobered up the fact that my husband left me and my best friend betrayed me hadn't changed. Also I was no closer to getting through the whole process to recieve the healing that I needed in my heart.

And LadySilk I have to disagree with you on the fact that the use of weed doesn't harm anyone. That is a blanket statement and doesn't pertain to all situations. Reread my previous post. I was harmed by my psychological addiction. And because of my lack of motivation due to the use of weed, the physical and emotional needs of my children were not met and they suffered big time. However, I do agree that cigarettes and alcohol have destroyed many lives and have taken our loved ones early in life. I'm in the process of a divorce from my second husband because of his alcoholism. His father was an alcoholic and also died from emphasima... he smoked 2 packs a day up til the day he was put into the hospital and there he died. His death has nearly destroyed that family. If the survivors in that family aren't alcoholics or drug addicts they are very materialistic and are addicted to shopping for their very expensive toys.

And finally about the music issue...

Music is in the soul. It is in the nature of every human to make music, whether by instrument or by their voices. Music is a part of the human heart. The messages of the music is what can have a positive or negative effect on a person. There are times when I listen to an aggressive type song because I'm mad. Sometimes I listen to a bluesy song or some jazz because I am depressed. I listen to the music to proccess the emotion and then I'm over it. However some people listen to aggressive or depressing music and they don't go through the proccess... they stay stuck in anger and depression and that poisons their heart. In that way music can have a negative affect. But to say that one should abstain from music is to give up something that is a part of your heart and soul. Music is a God given gift.

[allison]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dogstar
A little off topic here, but I still can't get my family to stop buying me things, even though I have told them outright that while I appreciate their thoughts, I have no more room in my life for material gifts. I have tried to get them to donate to chariities instead, but so far, I have not been successful. The worst is Christmas, IMHO. I really wish we all could stop with the maniacal spending. My idea of a perfect Christmas is to get together with the people I love, have a great meal with them and just enjoy each other's company, maybe sing some Christmas carols and just hang out.

I have the EXACT same problem. My family WILL NOT believe me when I say that I do not want gifts for my birthday or Christmas, I want them to donate to the charity of MY choice in MY name. I have tried to explain to them why over and over, year after year, but they still insist on buying me gifts. It makes me so angry! I hope that doesn't sound selfish or mean, but it really does. It's like they are buying me gifts to make themselves feel better! When I say, "There's nothing that I need. What I would really like would be for you to donate to...", they say, "Oh no, I can't do that, then you'd have nothing to open and I'd feel horrible!". Let me worry about that, and I do NOT feel horrible. What would truly make me feel GREAT would be to know that my charities got help when I couldn't give them as much money as I would like to, and they are able to do more good because of me. I really don't think I'd feel bad giving to a charity in someone's name if that's what they wanted me to do, so what's the deal? Why is this so difficult????

[Lady Valkyrie]

You know a way around that allison? Just tell your family that you aren't sure what you want at that time and it would be really nice if they'd get you a gift card to a store that you really like. Really whine that you really want a gift card. Then you take that gift card and buy something for the local charities in your area. Then get a receipt from the charity if you can and give it to your parents for that way you give them something in return...a reciept for their tax deductable contrubution to your favorite charity. lol

[Altair]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dogstar
Ok, I think I see where you are coming from,  but why must our existence or experiences on this earth simply be bearable?  Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly take pleasure in my non-material experiences, too: A light summer breeze, warm sunshine, a beautiful blue sky, the sounds of the ocean, a restful nap, these bring me great joy, and as you mentioned, each other. Loving others, IMHO, is the greatest joy of them all.  
Are you saying we are here basically to suffer and just survive?  

Good question. Forgive me. I see that my explanation is poor. I do have a difficult time conveying my ideas.

"Are we here basically to suffer and survive? Are our experiences only to be bearable?" you ask?
Oh, hell no! That wasn't my point in the least bit. On the contrary. I want life to be full of joy, love, excitement, compassion, and wonder like that of a young child. I just simply believe we can attain these treasures without dependencies.

Unfortunately, most of us are so lost in gluttony and desires that we haven't even had the opportunity to try a life without material luxuries. Instead, we've been so trained by society, we are spoiled. We can reprogram ourselves, trusting our inner being's ability to fly on the wings of freedom.

Again, I'm sure I've failed at explaining my ideas, but it's a try.