Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies.....

Lunar Shadow · 03-18-2006, 08:41 PM

60 Minutes ran a segment tonight on the determinants of homosexuality and heterosexuality. It was very informative and made it clear that there is no choice involved. I doubt that fundies will be swayed since their extremely qualified religious leaders tell them otherwise. But, for those not blinded by religion, hopefully this will lead to greater tolerance and acceptance...

Quote: Psychologists used to believe homosexuality was caused by nurture — namely overbearing mothers and distant fathers — but that theory has been disproved. Today, scientists are looking at genes, environment, brain structure and hormones. There is one area of consensus: that homosexuality involves more than just sexual behavior; it’s physiological.

More HERE

In light of the scientific evidence I'd like to hear what our resident Christians and Catholics think about the cause of homosexuality. Do you still think it's a choice?

uncertaindrumer · 03-18-2006, 09:28 PM

I have never said it is a choice, at least, and neither has the Catholic Church. I am a bit skeptical of this evidence, none of it seems particuarly credible and I liek how they say the theory that a lack of a father can cause homosexuality has been "disproved" without ever showing why. But regardless, even if it were definivitely proven that homosexuality is a genetic trait, which it very well may be (and while undecided on the subject I do somewhat lean in that direction), this would not at all change my belief on the subject.

We are all inherantly sinners, period. Homosexuality is just another form of sin. I sin plenty, but my propensity for it doesn't make it right. Homosexuals may be born that way but that doesn't force them to act upon it. So yes, it is still a choice and always will be whether or not you engage in homosexual acts with others--but who you are attracted to does not mean you have any less dignity than the next guy. Indeed, he who resists the temptation is stronger for it than he who never had to face that choice in the first place.

nagpo · 03-18-2006, 09:55 PM

i always did belive u were born gay(during development- in your mother).

uncertaindrumer · 03-18-2006, 11:20 PM

I think whatever the eventual realization is, it will probably be some of both. Some are genetically inclined to tend toward homosexuality, most aren't, but that doesn't mean anyone can't move towards homsexuality (or vice versa).

For instance, some people are born with physiques that allow for more muscle mass. Others gain mass by lifting. Some have both and they are the largest of all. But someone like me will never have huge biceps, and some other people will simply never have small arms. I think Homosexuality is probably like that, although I admit I have no evidence to suggest it is. Just an intuitive feeling, and it makes sense.

Lunar Shadow · 03-19-2006, 08:11 PM

Uncertain--

You really need to decide what platform you are going to argue form because in your 2 posts you make 4 different statments.... what are you doing? are you just cluster bombing and hoping some of the shit your posting sticks? I mean come on? honestly.

SecretWeapon · 03-19-2006, 10:10 PM

Well, I think it would be very hard to prove anything more than "men and women have sex drives" scientifically. Until we've concocted mind-reading devices, it would seem difficult to prove anything, scientifically, about homosexuality. I wouldn't believe everything that 60 minutes does.
Also, I find it interesting that they didn't have anything to say about psyco-anylists' points of veiw.

I could say that, because of an over-active sex drive, a man can masturbate
20 times a day. Does that mean that it can be proven scientifically that, because a man has an over-active sex drive he HAS to masturbate 20 times a day? No. If I raped a woman, and then tried to say in court that I HAD to, it was my body's fault, I can't help it, then I'd be destroyed by the judge and jury.

Some people are inscestual, some like girl-girl, some like asians, some like blacks, some like white women, some like young girls, some like old women.

I might not be an expert, but I have a good point I think.
People have sick and demented minds. I wouldn't say that homosexualty has no choice attached to it. I don't mean to call homosexuals sick and demented, but it is, according to the Bible, a sin. Right up there with incest,
having sex with animals, and offering your children to Molech,
check the book of Leviticus. (Not that you believe in the Bible or care)

Rocketqueen · 03-20-2006, 11:22 AM

i think everybody that is sexual and in touch with thier sexualtiy has the gay gene all though they wont admit it who ever is one 100 percent homsexual is born to be that way is it wrong or is right its not right but its no more of a sin than any other sin no sin is to small or to greater IN GODS Eyes Church Relgions is like to me in this day The KKK For Gay People That Word Does Not Give Me Shivers there is a lot

i wont say gay people i will just say people getting hurt and more confused and being lead to more darkness who love god and growing in wisdom so they must have their own churches I HOPE AND PRAISE GOD THEY KEEP ON GROWING and in his courts your always welcome one day is better my jesus said for solom and gomorha would be more easier to except and deal with than this waxed cold genration i,ll do some study and find more scripture back to back and get right back on this topic

Rocketqueen · 03-20-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by nagpo) i always did belive u were born gay(during development- in your mother).

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa LMAO

yeah right there

Trimontana · 03-20-2006, 11:46 AM

I always tought that everyone chooses their sexuality; with this i mean that noone borns gay. I believe some circunstances in life make take to women and men a decision about what they prefer sexually. I don't believe there's a gene that determitates every single person sexuality. I believe too that God created women and men to be together; and not 2 people of the same sex to be together. I don't think is a natural thing; and don't misunderstand me i respect everyone decision but i don't see it normal and i can't understand homosexuality. With this statment i believe some of you will call me racist and stuff but i am not discriminating anyone, i am just saying that i don't think is natural and i will never understand it.

uncertaindrumer · 03-20-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow) Uncertain--

You really need to decide what platform you are going to argue form because in your 2 posts you make 4 different statments.... what are you doing? are you just cluster bombing and hoping some of the shit your posting sticks? I mean come on? honestly.

I do? If anything that only shows my confusion at whether or not one can actually choose their orientation or it is genetic, or induced by the envrment or whatnot. But like I said, none of this matters to me.

I don't understand why it requires profanity and idiotic comments to attack my lack of a position. I don't CARE whether or not it is genetic. So... what's your problem?

Lunar Shadow · 03-20-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Trimontana) I always tought that everyone chooses their sexuality; with this i mean that noone borns gay. I believe some circunstances in life make take to women and men a decision about what they prefer sexually. I don't believe there's a gene that determitates every single person sexuality. I believe too that God created women and men to be together; and not 2 people of the same sex to be together. I don't think is a natural thing; and don't misunderstand me i respect everyone decision but i don't see it normal and i can't understand homosexuality. With this statment i believe some of you will call me racist and stuff but i am not discriminating anyone, i am just saying that i don't think is natural and i will never understand it.

is that why so see homosexuality in the animal kingdom between pack animals and primates? and here is a thought too why would anyone want to chose to be gay? why would you want to subject yourself to that kind of public ridicule? if you can answer that than you may give some thought to your statement.

Lunar Shadow · 03-20-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon) Well, I think it would be very hard to prove anything more than "men and women have sex drives" scientifically. Until we've concocted mind-reading devices, it would seem difficult to prove anything, scientifically, about homosexuality. I wouldn't believe everything that 60 minutes does.
Also, I find it interesting that they didn't have anything to say about psyco-anylists' points of veiw.

I could say that, because of an over-active sex drive, a man can masturbate
20 times a day. Does that mean that it can be proven scientifically that, because a man has an over-active sex drive he HAS to masturbate 20 times a day? No. If I raped a woman, and then tried to say in court that I HAD to, it was my body's fault, I can't help it, then I'd be destroyed by the judge and jury.

Some people are inscestual, some like girl-girl, some like asians, some like blacks, some like white women, some like young girls, some like old women.

I might not be an expert, but I have a good point I think.
People have sick and demented minds. I wouldn't say that homosexualty has no choice attached to it. I don't mean to call homosexuals sick and demented, but it is, according to the Bible, a sin. Right up there with incest,
having sex with animals, and offering your children to Molech,
check the book of Leviticus. (Not that you believe in the Bible or care)

Wow you really don't understand genetic science do you? let alone the fact that Psycho analysis has been shown to be sketchy at best... why subscribe to a hit and miss science and ignore one that produces hard data? Are you just afraid to think that your god (if he even does exist) would be so cruel to make some one gay and then brand homosexuality a sin? PLEASE!

Lunar Shadow · 03-20-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) I do? If anything that only shows my confusion at whether or not one can actually choose their orientation or it is genetic, or induced by the envrment or whatnot. But like I said, none of this matters to me.

If it doesn't matter to you (as you say) then why even comment at all? How many gay people do you personally know? How many of them have you talked to about this? Because it may be helpful to get an insight.

Quote: I don't understand why it requires profanity and idiotic comments to attack my lack of a position. I don't CARE whether or not it is genetic. So... what's your problem?

I type my responses how I would speak face to face I use profanity when I talk (they are just words word in which I am quite familiar with their roots and evolution through time) idiotic comments? Where? I didn't know that No_fixd_address was back.

uncertaindrumer · 03-21-2006, 12:05 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow) If it doesn't matter to you (as you say) then why even comment at all?

By "matter" I obviously mean in a religious context. In terms of the issue itself... well it is an interesting issue. I would also say thet the evolution/creation debate (as if the two things were contradictory) doesn't matter to me, but it is still interesting and I read about it, follow it, etc.

Quote: How many gay people do you personally know? How many of them have you talked to about this? Because it may be helpful to get an insight.

Maybe. I don't know many gay people and those whom I do I have never discussed the issue with.

Quote: I type my responses how I would speak face to face I use profanity when I talk (they are just words word in which I am quite familiar with their roots and evolution through time)

I see. You say "profanity" involves "just words"? Then why call it profanity? Just curious.

Quote: idiotic comments? Where? I didn't know that No_fixd_address was back.

actually no_fixd_address had a lot of good arguments. You guys jsut never settled down and debated one thing. You kept going from one topic to another so fast that no progress was ever made.

uncertaindrumer · 03-21-2006, 12:16 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow) Wow you really don't understand genetic science do you?

You know, this is really a terrible debating tool. Telling someone they know nothing is not only useless, makes them annoyed with you, but engenders the possibility that neither do YOU, since your best argument is "well you dont know what ur talking about!"

Quote: Are you just afraid to think that your god (if he even does exist) would be so cruel to make some one gay and then brand homosexuality a sin? PLEASE!

I don't understand how that would be cruel. Explain?

03-18-2006, 08:41 PM	#1
Lunar Shadow USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,244 Joined: Jun 2005 Currently: Offline	Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies..... 60 Minutes ran a segment tonight on the determinants of homosexuality and heterosexuality. It was very informative and made it clear that there is no choice involved. I doubt that fundies will be swayed since their extremely qualified religious leaders tell them otherwise. But, for those not blinded by religion, hopefully this will lead to greater tolerance and acceptance... Quote: Psychologists used to believe homosexuality was caused by nurture — namely overbearing mothers and distant fathers — but that theory has been disproved. Today, scientists are looking at genes, environment, brain structure and hormones. There is one area of consensus: that homosexuality involves more than just sexual behavior; it’s physiological. More HERE In light of the scientific evidence I'd like to hear what our resident Christians and Catholics think about the cause of homosexuality. Do you still think it's a choice? __________________ Lunar Shadow

03-18-2006, 09:28 PM	#2
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies..... I have never said it is a choice, at least, and neither has the Catholic Church. I am a bit skeptical of this evidence, none of it seems particuarly credible and I liek how they say the theory that a lack of a father can cause homosexuality has been "disproved" without ever showing why. But regardless, even if it were definivitely proven that homosexuality is a genetic trait, which it very well may be (and while undecided on the subject I do somewhat lean in that direction), this would not at all change my belief on the subject. We are all inherantly sinners, period. Homosexuality is just another form of sin. I sin plenty, but my propensity for it doesn't make it right. Homosexuals may be born that way but that doesn't force them to act upon it. So yes, it is still a choice and always will be whether or not you engage in homosexual acts with others--but who you are attracted to does not mean you have any less dignity than the next guy. Indeed, he who resists the temptation is stronger for it than he who never had to face that choice in the first place. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

03-18-2006, 09:55 PM	#3
nagpo USER INFO » Status: Bound and Tied Posts: 2,176 Joined: Mar 2005 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies. i always did belive u were born gay(during development- in your mother). __________________ I really have nothing to say

03-18-2006, 11:20 PM	#4
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies..... I think whatever the eventual realization is, it will probably be some of both. Some are genetically inclined to tend toward homosexuality, most aren't, but that doesn't mean anyone can't move towards homsexuality (or vice versa). For instance, some people are born with physiques that allow for more muscle mass. Others gain mass by lifting. Some have both and they are the largest of all. But someone like me will never have huge biceps, and some other people will simply never have small arms. I think Homosexuality is probably like that, although I admit I have no evidence to suggest it is. Just an intuitive feeling, and it makes sense. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

03-19-2006, 08:11 PM	#5
Lunar Shadow USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,244 Joined: Jun 2005 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies..... Uncertain-- You really need to decide what platform you are going to argue form because in your 2 posts you make 4 different statments.... what are you doing? are you just cluster bombing and hoping some of the shit your posting sticks? I mean come on? honestly. __________________ Lunar Shadow

03-19-2006, 10:10 PM	#6
SecretWeapon USER INFO » Status: Misconception Posts: 125 Joined: Oct 2005 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies..... Well, I think it would be very hard to prove anything more than "men and women have sex drives" scientifically. Until we've concocted mind-reading devices, it would seem difficult to prove anything, scientifically, about homosexuality. I wouldn't believe everything that 60 minutes does. Also, I find it interesting that they didn't have anything to say about psyco-anylists' points of veiw. I could say that, because of an over-active sex drive, a man can masturbate 20 times a day. Does that mean that it can be proven scientifically that, because a man has an over-active sex drive he HAS to masturbate 20 times a day? No. If I raped a woman, and then tried to say in court that I HAD to, it was my body's fault, I can't help it, then I'd be destroyed by the judge and jury. Some people are inscestual, some like girl-girl, some like asians, some like blacks, some like white women, some like young girls, some like old women. I might not be an expert, but I have a good point I think. People have sick and demented minds. I wouldn't say that homosexualty has no choice attached to it. I don't mean to call homosexuals sick and demented, but it is, according to the Bible, a sin. Right up there with incest, having sex with animals, and offering your children to Molech, check the book of Leviticus. (Not that you believe in the Bible or care)

03-20-2006, 11:22 AM	#7
Rocketqueen USER INFO » Status: Freedom Fighter Posts: 2,432 Joined: Oct 2005 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies..... i think everybody that is sexual and in touch with thier sexualtiy has the gay gene all though they wont admit it who ever is one 100 percent homsexual is born to be that way is it wrong or is right its not right but its no more of a sin than any other sin no sin is to small or to greater IN GODS Eyes Church Relgions is like to me in this day The KKK For Gay People That Word Does Not Give Me Shivers there is a lot i wont say gay people i will just say people getting hurt and more confused and being lead to more darkness who love god and growing in wisdom so they must have their own churches I HOPE AND PRAISE GOD THEY KEEP ON GROWING and in his courts your always welcome one day is better my jesus said for solom and gomorha would be more easier to except and deal with than this waxed cold genration i,ll do some study and find more scripture back to back and get right back on this topic __________________ I Indeed Babtize you with water BUT ONE Mightier Than I Cometh The Latchet Of Whose Shoes I,am Not Worthy To Unloose He Shall Babtize You With The Holy Ghost And With FIREEEEEEEEEE John The Babtist You Never Count Your Money When YOUR Sittin At The Table There Will Be Time Enough To Count,em When The Dealings Done

03-20-2006, 11:25 AM	#8
Rocketqueen USER INFO » Status: Freedom Fighter Posts: 2,432 Joined: Oct 2005 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies. Quote: (Originally Posted by nagpo) i always did belive u were born gay(during development- in your mother). Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa LMAO yeah right there __________________ I Indeed Babtize you with water BUT ONE Mightier Than I Cometh The Latchet Of Whose Shoes I,am Not Worthy To Unloose He Shall Babtize You With The Holy Ghost And With FIREEEEEEEEEE John The Babtist You Never Count Your Money When YOUR Sittin At The Table There Will Be Time Enough To Count,em When The Dealings Done

03-20-2006, 11:46 AM	#9
Trimontana USER INFO » Status: Bound and Tied Posts: 2,145 Joined: Oct 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies..... I always tought that everyone chooses their sexuality; with this i mean that noone borns gay. I believe some circunstances in life make take to women and men a decision about what they prefer sexually. I don't believe there's a gene that determitates every single person sexuality. I believe too that God created women and men to be together; and not 2 people of the same sex to be together. I don't think is a natural thing; and don't misunderstand me i respect everyone decision but i don't see it normal and i can't understand homosexuality. With this statment i believe some of you will call me racist and stuff but i am not discriminating anyone, i am just saying that i don't think is natural and i will never understand it. __________________ Papa Roach's Tobin Esperance: "If you're gonna wear makeup, it's not about looking pretty. It's gotta look like you've been up all night doing drugs."

03-20-2006, 07:50 PM	#10
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies..... Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow) Uncertain-- You really need to decide what platform you are going to argue form because in your 2 posts you make 4 different statments.... what are you doing? are you just cluster bombing and hoping some of the shit your posting sticks? I mean come on? honestly. I do? If anything that only shows my confusion at whether or not one can actually choose their orientation or it is genetic, or induced by the envrment or whatnot. But like I said, none of this matters to me. I don't understand why it requires profanity and idiotic comments to attack my lack of a position. I don't CARE whether or not it is genetic. So... what's your problem? __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

03-20-2006, 08:14 PM	#11
Lunar Shadow USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,244 Joined: Jun 2005 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies. Quote: (Originally Posted by Trimontana) I always tought that everyone chooses their sexuality; with this i mean that noone borns gay. I believe some circunstances in life make take to women and men a decision about what they prefer sexually. I don't believe there's a gene that determitates every single person sexuality. I believe too that God created women and men to be together; and not 2 people of the same sex to be together. I don't think is a natural thing; and don't misunderstand me i respect everyone decision but i don't see it normal and i can't understand homosexuality. With this statment i believe some of you will call me racist and stuff but i am not discriminating anyone, i am just saying that i don't think is natural and i will never understand it. is that why so see homosexuality in the animal kingdom between pack animals and primates? and here is a thought too why would anyone want to chose to be gay? why would you want to subject yourself to that kind of public ridicule? if you can answer that than you may give some thought to your statement. __________________ Lunar Shadow

03-20-2006, 09:29 PM	#12
Lunar Shadow USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,244 Joined: Jun 2005 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies. Quote: (Originally Posted by SecretWeapon) Well, I think it would be very hard to prove anything more than "men and women have sex drives" scientifically. Until we've concocted mind-reading devices, it would seem difficult to prove anything, scientifically, about homosexuality. I wouldn't believe everything that 60 minutes does. Also, I find it interesting that they didn't have anything to say about psyco-anylists' points of veiw. I could say that, because of an over-active sex drive, a man can masturbate 20 times a day. Does that mean that it can be proven scientifically that, because a man has an over-active sex drive he HAS to masturbate 20 times a day? No. If I raped a woman, and then tried to say in court that I HAD to, it was my body's fault, I can't help it, then I'd be destroyed by the judge and jury. Some people are inscestual, some like girl-girl, some like asians, some like blacks, some like white women, some like young girls, some like old women. I might not be an expert, but I have a good point I think. People have sick and demented minds. I wouldn't say that homosexualty has no choice attached to it. I don't mean to call homosexuals sick and demented, but it is, according to the Bible, a sin. Right up there with incest, having sex with animals, and offering your children to Molech, check the book of Leviticus. (Not that you believe in the Bible or care) Wow you really don't understand genetic science do you? let alone the fact that Psycho analysis has been shown to be sketchy at best... why subscribe to a hit and miss science and ignore one that produces hard data? Are you just afraid to think that your god (if he even does exist) would be so cruel to make some one gay and then brand homosexuality a sin? PLEASE! __________________ Lunar Shadow

03-20-2006, 09:35 PM	#13
Lunar Shadow USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,244 Joined: Jun 2005 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies. Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) I do? If anything that only shows my confusion at whether or not one can actually choose their orientation or it is genetic, or induced by the envrment or whatnot. But like I said, none of this matters to me. If it doesn't matter to you (as you say) then why even comment at all? How many gay people do you personally know? How many of them have you talked to about this? Because it may be helpful to get an insight. Quote: I don't understand why it requires profanity and idiotic comments to attack my lack of a position. I don't CARE whether or not it is genetic. So... what's your problem? I type my responses how I would speak face to face I use profanity when I talk (they are just words word in which I am quite familiar with their roots and evolution through time) idiotic comments? Where? I didn't know that No_fixd_address was back. __________________ Lunar Shadow

03-21-2006, 12:05 AM	#14
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies. Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow) If it doesn't matter to you (as you say) then why even comment at all? By "matter" I obviously mean in a religious context. In terms of the issue itself... well it is an interesting issue. I would also say thet the evolution/creation debate (as if the two things were contradictory) doesn't matter to me, but it is still interesting and I read about it, follow it, etc. Quote: How many gay people do you personally know? How many of them have you talked to about this? Because it may be helpful to get an insight. Maybe. I don't know many gay people and those whom I do I have never discussed the issue with. Quote: I type my responses how I would speak face to face I use profanity when I talk (they are just words word in which I am quite familiar with their roots and evolution through time) I see. You say "profanity" involves "just words"? Then why call it profanity? Just curious. Quote: idiotic comments? Where? I didn't know that No_fixd_address was back. actually no_fixd_address had a lot of good arguments. You guys jsut never settled down and debated one thing. You kept going from one topic to another so fast that no progress was ever made. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

03-21-2006, 12:16 AM	#15
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: Homosexuality Is Result Of Genes, Brain Structure, Hormones, Contradicts fundies. Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow) Wow you really don't understand genetic science do you? You know, this is really a terrible debating tool. Telling someone they know nothing is not only useless, makes them annoyed with you, but engenders the possibility that neither do YOU, since your best argument is "well you dont know what ur talking about!" Quote: Are you just afraid to think that your god (if he even does exist) would be so cruel to make some one gay and then brand homosexuality a sin? PLEASE! I don't understand how that would be cruel. Explain? __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

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