Atheism growing in America

[SecretWeapon]

Oh, man, somebody had to come back in here and re-open this can of worms...

Quote: (Originally Posted by mindstorm)

I think believing that there is no creator is just as logical or illogical as believing in creationism.
Atheist does not believe in a creator. Then there leaves 2 possible explaination for our origin of existence.
1) There was at first nothing and bang, there was something and by some forces molecules aggregate and cells were formed and they evolved into present live.

Nothing is nothing. Nothing is no force, no energy. Nil. Zil. Null. To think that something can just appear out of nothing contradicts the principles of physics. Show me you can make that happen and I'll pray to you.

Or there was matter, just in a different state. But yes, an object without motion tends to stay without motion unless influenced by an outside force, and yes, the matter already present before the big bang obviously has no reason for existing- unless there was a creator. Thus, the big bang theory is being considered a practical explanation for the universe's state by less and less scientists.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mindstorm)

2) There has always been this existence and always will be.

This theory also fails since evolution of life has been shown true and continues to be. By the control of man, so many animals have "evolved". Just check out the various breeds of farm animals, dogs etc. Those breeds/strains never existed before. If so that means there exist a time where man did not exist yet, or at one time probably not recognizable as "man". Pushing it back further in periods of time of dinasours and so on, how is it possible that "there has always been 'this' existence?"

Solid state theory applies to the state of heavenly bodies, mainly- not life. Life, in theory, created itself on Irish luck.

Interestingly enough, according to the Bible, God's actions in the book of Genesis didn't occur at the beginning of time, actually, the Bible says the earth was already there. "and the Spirit of the Lord hovered above the waters". Who's to say that God didn't create the universe billions of years ago, and then shape the Earth into what it now is, at humanity's Genesis? Thus, the carbon dating which shows the earth to be very old could be accurate.

Some interesting food for thought, but way off point. Sorry. :P

Quote: (Originally Posted by mindstorm)

The reason why I believe in Creationism is because of two words.
Design and Force.

For a car/computer/business or anything complex that man has build and created that works requires design, sweat, trial&error and teamwork. How does atheist explained that life or the human body which is far, far more complex and requires unbelievable coordination of the various biochemical/hormones/neural/organs parts in order to work properly is without a designer?

I wonder that myself.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mindstorm)

Poof, all molecules just aggregate together and they just work?
Ilogical.

Oversimplification. Please keep one thing in mind- there are scientists who have devoted their entire lives to learning and science, please don't insult their intelligence by suggesting that they just wisk away obvious problems. They try to sort out the bugs in their thinking, just like everyone else does. So maybe instead of calling them idiots (outright or indirectly), you should read up on it yourself and then attack their claims and theories one at a time. Abiogenesis and evolution are much more complex than you seem to believe.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mindstorm)

This brings us to evolution of life. The big question. What DRIVES evolution of life? Answer- the need to survive. Next question. What DRIVES this need to survive?? Why should we even want to survive? What is the driving force behind a group of cells to be of existence? or before that, a strand of DNA to propagate itself? Is a strand of DNA in a protein soup life? Probably more as just a group of chemical molecules. And how and what causes these chemicals to just WANT to propagate?? Does the chair you're sitting on wants ever want to replicate itself? After all it is also a bunch of chemicals.

The tree did before it was chopped down, cut up, sanded out and crafted into a chair. But that's not my point. Seriously, though, I agree-to a certain extent. There seems to be no need for life to reproduce or grow if all is just curiously arranged matter. Still, there is a complex study of life which you seem to not be recognizing. I was once where you are, but I opened up my eyes, and realized that I wasn't being fair with myself if I didn't honestly seek Truth, even if it wasn't the one I wanted to hear. I'm still searching and learning, but I have yet to see anything to convince me that existance is possible without an omniscient, omnipresent, and omniptent creator- for all intensive purposes- God.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mindstorm)

The FORCE behind LIFE is the most mysterious thing ever.

Mainly it's a chemical process. But even so, I don't see life without a creator.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mindstorm)

The most philosophical question ever asked was by a little girl looking out of her kitchen window. "Mum, why should anything exist at all?"

^That's the big mystery.

[Sincirr]

OK, would like to just comment on a minute part of this difficult thread...

Quote:

I wasn't being fair with myself if I didn't honestly seek Truth

Bold and honest statement. Most people's truth seeking is tainted with a hidden motive. So this is good.

Quote:

Quote: (Originally Posted by Justify) I believe that Atheism is growing in America. I think it is a sad fact and will continue to happen. We Christians have allowed to happen by not standing up for our rights. We have allowed God to be taken out of our Schools. We allowed the voice of one Atheist to outway the voice of many who believe in God...

Thing is that in America especially, there is now a sowing and reaping affect brought on from a Christian-based government that over decades, has really kind of enforced (s0-called) christian values on people of the nation whether they had chosen to follow christ or not. For those that dont follow Christ, this ends up being labelled as opression and people will rebel from that.

That is why I think Atheism is growing. This is why prayer etc has been taken out of schools and why so many have risen up against such christian-based policies.

...(I think it is rather a double standard though, as it seems that Athiest parents have taken their children's civil rights away from them by not allowing them to choose for themselves whether to talk to God or not, because the parents follow the belief that its rot, and therefore they enforce that belief on their children...anyways)...hopefully the Athiest's views wont in future be detrimental to the way the nation is run, and therefore, affect the way Religious groups, whether Hindu, Christian, Jew etc, conduct their lives with the God they worship - to the point that people that have even a tiny belief in the birth of Jesus being what Christmas is about, will not be allowed to put their Nativity Scene on the rooftops of their own homes. Oh please!

This makes Athiests happy, but in the long run, only promotes ignorance and ultimately disrespect of others cultures and beliefs on the next generation of Americans.

I'd also like to say that though folks such as LunarShadow are rejoicing in the growth of Atheism in the States, I dont think this growth will limit Jesus in the long run.

[RalphyS]

I do "believe" that Christianity, Islam and other religions over time will walk in the footsteps of ancient religions like Greek, Roman and Norse mythology and will eventually whither out, but alas I will not be around to see it happen in my lifetime.