Chicago show -- sorry to beat a dead horse

[jgaull]

As requested ... I've moved this to an appropriate thread.


First of all let me say that I'm a Creed fan. Yes a true Creed fan. I own all their albums, listen to them all the time, and attend most of the concerts in Chicago. I will continue to be a Creed fan even after the Chicago show.

But, am I missing something here? I didn't go to the concert but I think the people that went have a right to be mad. Why is everyone saying "They had one bad night" ... "They're only human" ... "They can't perform their best every night"

From talking to people that actually went to the show, it's apparent to me that Scott Stapp was pretty drunk. Can I safely say that without everyone accusing me of starting rumors? I've never gone to work drunk. I'm pretty sure if I did, I'd be fired on the spot. Do you guys realize that putting on concerts is a big part of their job? It's the part of their job where they sell themselves to their customers. If you're a salesman and you attend a big conference in another city, should you be able to get drunk because you're having problems at home? Wouldn't that be frowned upon because it will make you and your company look bad? Doesn't Scott not only represent himself out there, but all the people that work hard to make Creed what they are? Don't they have a right to expect him to do his best out there? Didn't they say in the Behind the Music special that they used to do shots of Jaeger before the show but then they realized that they sounded bad so they stopped?

About them having a tough schedule. I agree it is a very aggressive schedule that would wear on anyone. Did the band get pressured into putting on two more shows? I don't know. Could Scott have said that with his family problems and health problems, it wouldn't be possible to add two more shows? I would think so.

I don't think we should make excuses for Scott. Can we all just admit that he made a huge mistake and that he should do something to redeem himself?

[souldancer]

Quote:

Originally posted by jgaull
I've moved this to an appropriate thread.

Thanks. The title uses a disgusting cliche (? for affect), but I appreciate your moving the post.

[Bridge of Clay]

I never said it´s ok to go drunk on stage... I agree it was wrong, it affected the band, their families and even the fans...

Once the mistake is done, instead of bashing, I believe the best thing to do is supporting. He had his reasons. He took the wrong way to run from his problems. But shoot the first rock who never made a bad choice before.

I believe he deserves compassion. I forgive him. I think others do too. God also forgives him. Why won´t you? Just because one night you can´t throw away all he gave us.

He redeemed himself in Philly. You can´t condem him for one disapointing night.

I´m glad this hapened. Now we can see who are the truly fans.

I´m not directing my post to jgaull specifically. I´m writing it to all the others.

[Dogstar]

Well said, Marcos. I'm with you 100 percent!

[jgaull]

OK. Sorry for the title. I just wanted to convey to everyone that I know this topic might be getting old but I think I'm bringing up valid points that no one else has said. I picked "beat a dead horse" not for effect but just to get my point across. I didn't even think of taking the words literally and there certainly was no hidden meaning in those words.

Does anyone have any opinions on the contents of my post? Anyone think I'm way off base on any of my points?

[Dogstar]

Jgaull, your points have been made by many others on the board. It's possible they have been pushed back to previous pages. I've stated my case on several occasions and pretty much agree that showing up drunk showed poor judgment and that had I been there, I'd have been disappointed and angry, but most of all concerned about his welfare and the pain he apparently was in.

I agree pretty much with what Marcos (the poster with the longitude and latitude) said in this thread. No one is perfect, he made a mistake, it was a bad one, but he deserves forgiveness just as anyone does. It's maybe easier for me to say that, as for some of the those who posted it was their first show and most likely an incredible letdown. Plus, I got to see him rebound in Philly.

I think I can say in all honesty that I would have cried having seen him in that condition and I'm thankful I didn't have to witness it. I feel very bad for the people who did have to see that. Self-destructive behavior leaves those who care about you helpless a lot of the time because the only person who can stop it is the person doing it. It's horrible to watch. And I'm pretty sure Scott Stapp will either issue an apology and possibly schedule a make-up show when he and the band have had a chance to catch their collective breath.

[jgaull]

N30°14'?.7 W84°,

If you were the buyer for Walmart and ABC Company came in to sell you his product and he was drunk, would you forgive him before he even issued an apology?

You don't think he should be bashed at all?

I think that you should earn forgiveness. Correct me if I'm wrong but God doesn't forgive you unless you ask for forgiveness. You usually even have to do a penance for your sins (if you're Christian).

Don't get me wrong, if Scott sincerely apologizes, I would definitely forgive him. I just think it was a huge deal and certain people are acting like it was nothing.

Try showing up for your job drunk and see how fast you're forgiven.

[Dogstar]

Jgaull, I personally know people who have had drinking and substance abuse problems and they have been able to get help through employee assistance programs. Not everyone would be fired on the spot. I guess it depends on the job and the employer.

[Weathered]

sorry guys but i agree with him at most parts especially the thing about scott getting drunk....it is his job and he should do his best at it.... obviously its different then a normal job but its still his job...and those people paid good money....but he did make it up in Philly...but i think they should give chicago a fan appreciation show next summer when they are better again

[Bridge of Clay]

It depends on the product!

see, I can´t buy Creed´s product (their music) in another band. But this is a product I really wanna buy.

I paid for the product (in this case, the concert) before receiving it, right?

So I had no idea the product would come "broken" to me. I have the right to be angry and disapointed, coz I wanted it so bad. I can request my money back. It´s my right.

But since I can´t find this product anywhere else, coz it´s unique, I have 2 choices:
- giving up of this product, prooving I never wanted it that much.

- still wanting the product, knowing it came broken for an accident, and hope it doesn´t happen another time. Once it came broken, I can´t blame it on others. What is done is done. But I can support those who made the mistake, so I can buy it again and enjoy it.

(You´ll say I could blame it on Stapp, but as I said: it was an accident... I agree they should have cancelled the show).

[Weathered]

lol marcos you lost me there

[Bridge of Clay]

2)

Imagine you buy tickets for a LA Lakers´ game. You are huge fan of Shaq and Bryant. You want they to win.

But in the middle of first quarter, Shaq trips over Bryant´s foot, both fell down to the ground. You know Shaq is a huge mountain, he fells over Bryant. Both of them get hurt and have to quit the game. They have no conditions to keep playing.

After the half time, Shaq tries to come back, but it hurts so bad he gives it up.

The rest of team keeps playing. But Lakers lost the game to Utah Jazz... Obviosly it let you down. You´ll be angry.

But shit happens. You can´t turn back in time. You "lost" your money, coz the ones you wanted to see were Shaq and Bryant, not the Mailman and Stockton.

It was an accident.

[tru2mine]

i agree everyone is chicago is owed an a apology and a make up concert and i also would have been disappointed and felt ripped off. Its a part of life. Shit happens. Im pretty confident he'll make it up. I really dont feel the whole its his job and he should be at his best all the time. its not exactly a normal job with normal everyday pressures. try living your life in the spot light and see how quickly you grab a drink. He did mess up that we all agree on. In my opinion its about time he messed up. Although he probably regrets it and feels horrible but he probably got a lot of his chest that he would have otherwise held in. cut the man some slack.

[Bridge of Clay]

sorry weathered, lost you where? I´m kinda sleepy here...

Jgaull, I don´t think he should be bashed. Coz I wouldn´t like to be bashed. So I try to don´t do to the others what I don´t want the others do to me.

I agree Stapp should have apologized. Maybe next time they go to Chicago. He didn´t apologized to me so I can forgive you (I wasn´t there), but I said I forgive him coz (too pretentious of my part? maybe!) I think he needs compassion.

I´m not going to discuss religion, buy a few points I wanna comment:

-I believe God forgive us for our sins before we make them. After all, Jesus died for all of our sins, right? But recognizing you sinned and asking for forgiveness is something you do to show you regret what you´ve done. God in all His love forgive us.

-Do a penance for our sins? Why? Jesus already suffered for our sins. We just can´t avoid the consequences of sinning. Doing a penance it´s part of Roman Catholic Church´s dogmas, but, correct me if I wrong, they don´t do it anymore. Maybe the priest tells you to pray that prayer for Mariah, but I think that´s all.

[creedfan2334]

some of you people need to go outside your shell and see the big picture here...

no one is trying to say that creed sucks now because of one lousy concert. jgaull put everyone's idea together into the most logical post about the chicago show i have read so far.

and by the way, comparing a rock concert to a lakers game is a bad comparison. in basketball, if one guy goes down, it doesn't affect the rest of the team. sure they might be the stars of the team, but there are other people on the team that can take their place.

when scott stapp goes down, there is NO ONE to replace him.

and also, you can't get drunk by accident.