Smokers Church

[Sincirr]

The original topic is being moved into another post because the smoking issue has overshadowed my real reason for wanting discussion on the smokers church idea...but lets keep the smoking debate going by all means!

[Lunar Shadow]

and do tell me sincirr how would it encourage sin I am confused by this statment.... even when I was a Christian smoking was never a sin it is just another one of thoes issues that people automatially assume is just because. so do tell me where is the basis for the claim that smoking is a sin? cuz no one has been able to give me any argument on it (not that I would buy in to it due to the fact that I am an atheist) but I am curious

and if there is still a doubt in anyones mind.... yes I do smoke.

[Ana4Stapp]

I clearly CANT see ANY connection between smoke and sin.I mean, related to the religion issues. It's a choice. A wrong choice.

Of course I cant support smoke. I think smoke is a damaged thing to your health and consequently to your life , by the way, also to the other people lives who are around you.

Well, actually you can say you are commiting a sin to your own life when your are smoking...

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

. I think smoke is a damaged thing to your health and consequently to your life , by the way, also to the other people lives who are around you.

this is not true the EPA report that finds that 2nd hand smoke kills was falseified. What the document says 2nd hand smoke kills over 3,000 people a year? well its wrong.

I mean come on people don't you guys ever watch Penn & Teller's Bullshit??

in the EPA study they found there was no difference incancer rates of thoes who lived smokers than thoes who lived with non smokers.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Anarkist)

this is not true the EPA report that finds that 2nd hand smoke kills was falseified. What the document says 2nd hand smoke kills over 3,000 people a year? well its wrong.

I mean come on people don't you guys ever watch Penn & Teller's Bullshit??

in the EPA study they found there was no difference incancer rates of thoes who lived smokers than thoes who lived with non smokers.

What's EPA? I never heard about it!! Anyway I think smoking is a meanigless thing to do with your own life.

[creedsister]

How wonderful of you to bring this up , i think its no more than right its not encouraging sin not smoking if this could take place YOU WOULD SEE AN AWSOME MOVE GOD in the church , we serve the come as you Are God...man its just like of you have friends visting your house you want everybody to relax and be comfortable and not so up tight people sinners who ever need be relaxed when hearing the word Of God , and not in hurry to get out the door to go smoke im sure The Lord Feels The Same Way...of course a lot of pepole and church leaders and organizers dont feel the same way about it but if there in a church In The South , precious donna thats moving in this direction or trying too WHOOOOOOOOO that gives me some kinda hope that some would realize indeed the souls are what importan not the fact that she or he smokes,

[Sincirr]

Quote: (Originally Posted by A)

how would it encourage sin

Look, I set the debate up with 2 basic and obvious popular opinions on the subject. I didnt suggest that I think it is wrong or whatever cos I used to smoke too so bite me, Also from what people have said, it is polluting the body and it is a temple of the holy spirit, and it is also thought of as something that we rely on when we should be relying on God. And dont u fricken dare start on me with these arguments as well cos i just put them there to provoke thought, so shut up!

Quote: (Originally Posted by u know who)

...due to the fact that I am an atheist...

There is no such thing as an atheist. Just someone whose got some issue with God/and U r deffinitely in that category.

Quote: (Originally Posted by bah!)

in the EPA study they found there was no difference incancer rates of thoes who lived smokers than thoes who lived with non smokers.

what the! I can easily say that penn and tellers bullshit is bullshit. Falsified. What ever!

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr)

what the! I can easily say that penn and tellers bullshit is bullshit. Falsified. What ever!

First of all have you read the EPA report?? I have and Penn & Teller were right the report is bullshit. See like good researchers they post sources and their sources are from both sides on this particular issue I read both sides and they said the exact same thing except the fact that the EPA side did FALSE MATH to come up with their figure. Remember Penn & Teller Want you to check them on their claims especially if you doubt their claims.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr)

Look, I set the debate up with 2 basic and obvious popular opinions on the subject. I didnt suggest that I think it is wrong or whatever cos I used to smoke too so bite me, Also from what people have said, it is polluting the body and it is a temple of the holy spirit, and it is also thought of as something that we rely on when we should be relying on God. And dont u fricken dare start on me with these arguments as well cos i just put them there to provoke thought, so shut up!

Every one quotes the bible out of context when referring to the body as a temple unto the holy spirit. The bible, or more specifically JESUS its talking about prostitution when he talks about the body being a temple, it is the most common reference taken out of context.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr)

There is no such thing as an atheist. Just someone whose got some issue with God/and U r deffinitely in that category.

I think it is very funny for you to make that assertion that there is no such thing as an Atheist... are you in my head?....NO! Now I am I totally against the possibility of there being a god no not at all but I would need to see some evidence on that. How ever I do not believe in a God of any way shape or form no matter what fallacy your pastor has told you regarding Atheists. The blanketed statement you make about Atheism is a cop-out

I mean come on Sincirr do I sit here and say there is no such thing as a Christian?? Or a Catholic?? NO! I have more respect for peoples beliefs (or lack there of) than that just because I have come to know it as false doesn't mean that it doesn't mean anything to you or No_fixd or Uncertain or Creedsister for that matter. I find your assertion offensive and rude.

[Lunar Shadow]

Not statistically significant is the findings

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsI...ews_detail.asp

[Sincirr]

OKOK, sorry for offending U. I guess I get offended by what u call an "athiest"'s attitude. I gotta get over that hurdle.

Also the verse about your body being a temple of the HS can, I recon, be applied to other things that U subject your body and the Holy Spirit to...dont U think?

But I cant really apologise if I offended U about smoking. I thinksmokers have to be blissfully ignorant to not aknowledge that there has been many reports of increased risks of different phyiscal illnesses including the obvious sore throats and eye irritations, and also including the worse: lung cancer and heart disease to name a couple, when having to inhale sidestream and mainstream smoke.

Poor kids risks of getting asthma increase as well.

I have been reading in occupational health and safety sites mostly, so I am sure that I will get one of those fallicy accusations but anyways, whats in cigarette smoke? And what does it do?

Well there is like 4000 or so chemicals in the smoke so i cant be bothered analyzing them all, but here are some I looked up:

Phosphoric acid: Causes irritation of the nose, throat and respiratory tract.

Benzophenone: I keep getting results coming up that this stuff is widely used in sunscreen. Hmmm...anyways, this MSDS sheet I looked at says: WARNING! HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED OR INHALED. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. AFFECTS CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.

Ammonia: long-term respiratory system and lung disorders have been observed following severe short-term exposures to ammonia.

But U could say, well that is only short term...
And in all fairness, u can build up a tollerance to the stuff so…

Oh yeh and fair enough, Carcinogens are thought to cause cancer so...

Bah!

Just one more, Hydrogen cyanide: Exposure to it can result in weakness, headache, confusion, vertigo, fatigue, anxiety and occasionally nausea and vomiting. Change in respiratory rate and depth; and within seconds or minutes, exposure to concentrated ammounts can result in death.

Look say this looks like a huge exaggeration, but still, U r putting that in yourself, and in others that are around U.

I will include a short list of stuff found in cigarette smoke in another post cos it is way too long!

I really didnt want this to be a debate about the effects of smoking though. I was hoping it would be more about post modernistic church types etc. Oh well.

[Sincirr]

Heres a short list of stuff found in your smoke. Read them and think about what U r breathing in. Its bad enough living in the city! bah!

I will post up to E here and i will have to put the rest in a word document!!!! Read if U dare!

Quote:

 Acetanisole
 Acetic Acid
 Acetoin
 Acetophenone
 6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane
 2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine
 2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran
 Acetylpyrazine
 2-Acetylpyridine
 3-Acetylpyridine
 2-Acetylthiazole
 Aconitic Acid
 dl-Alanine
 Alfalfa Extract
 Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil
 Allyl Hexanoate
 Allyl Ionone
 Almond Bitter Oil
 Ambergris Tincture
 Ammonia
 Ammonium Bicarbonate
 Ammonium Hydroxide
 Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic
 Ammonium Sulfide
 Amyl Alcohol
 Amyl Butyrate
 Amyl Formate
 Amyl Octanoate
 alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde
 Amyris Oil
 trans-Anethole
 Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil
 Anise
 Anise Star, Extract and Oils
 Anisyl Acetate
 Anisyl Alcohol
 Anisyl Formate
 Anisyl Phenylacetate
 Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins
 Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate
 1-Arginine
 Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil
 Ascorbic Acid
 1-Asparagine Monohydrate
 1-Aspartic Acid
 Balsam Peru and Oil
 Basil Oil
 Bay Leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil
 Beeswax White
 Beet Juice Concentrate
 Benzaldehyde
 Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal
 Benzoic Acid, Benzoin
 Benzoin Resin
 Benzophenone
 Benzyl Alcohol
 Benzyl Benzoate
 Benzyl Butyrate
 Benzyl Cinnamate
 Benzyl Propionate
 Benzyl Salicylate
 Bergamot Oil
 Bisabolene
 Black Currant Buds Absolute
 Borneol
 Bornyl Acetate
 Buchu Leaf Oil
 1,3-Butanediol
 2,3-Butanedione
 1-Butanol
 2-Butanone
 4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
 Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil
 Butyl Acetate
 Butyl Butyrate
 Butyl Butyryl Lactate
 Butyl Isovalerate
 Butyl Phenylacetate
 Butyl Undecylenate
 3-Butylidenephthalide
 Butyric Acid]
 Cadinene
 Caffeine
 Calcium Carbonate
 Camphene
 Cananga Oil
 Capsicum Oleoresin
 Caramel Color
 Caraway Oil
 Carbon Dioxide
 Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder
 Carob Bean and Extract
 beta-Carotene
 Carrot Oil
 Carvacrol
 4-Carvomenthenol
 1-Carvone
 beta-Caryophyllene
 beta-Caryophyllene Oxide
 Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract
 Cassia Bark Oil
 Cassie Absolute and Oil
 Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute
 Cedar Leaf Oil
 Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana
 Cedrol
 Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin
 Cellulose Fiber
 Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract
 Chicory Extract
 Chocolate
 Cinnamaldehyde
 Cinnamic Acid
 Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract
 Cinnamyl Acetate
 Cinnamyl Alcohol
 Cinnamyl Cinnamate
 Cinnamyl Isovalerate
 Cinnamyl Propionate
 Citral
 Citric Acid
 Citronella Oil
 dl-Citronellol
 Citronellyl Butyrate
 itronellyl Isobutyrate
 Civet Absolute
 Clary Oil
 Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract
 Cocoa
 Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder
 Coconut Oil
 Coffee
 Cognac White and Green Oil
 Copaiba Oil
 Coriander Extract and Oil
 Corn Oil
 Corn Silk
 Costus Root Oil
 Cubeb Oil
 Cuminaldehyde
 para-Cymene
 1-Cysteine
 Dandelion Root Solid Extract
 Davana Oil
 2-trans, 4-trans-Decadienal
 delta-Decalactone
 gamma-Decalactone
 Decanal
 Decanoic Acid
 1-Decanol
 2-Decenal
 Dehydromenthofurolactone
 Diethyl Malonate
 Diethyl Sebacate
 2,3-Diethylpyrazine
 Dihydro Anethole
 5,7-Dihydro-2-Methylthieno(3,4-D) Pyrimidine
 Dill Seed Oil and Extract
 meta-Dimethoxybenzene
 para-Dimethoxybenzene
 2,6-Dimethoxyphenol
 Dimethyl Succinate
 3,4-Dimethyl-1,2 Cyclopentanedione
 3,5- Dimethyl-1,2-Cyclopentanedione
 3,7-Dimethyl-1,3,6-Octatriene
 4,5-Dimethyl-3-Hydroxy-2,5-Dihydrofuran-2-One
 6,10-Dimethyl-5,9-Undecadien-2-One
 3,7-Dimethyl-6-Octenoic Acid
 2,4 Dimethylacetophenone
 alpha,para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol
 alpha,alpha-Dimethylphenethyl Acetate
 alpha,alpha Dimethylphenethyl Butyrate
 2,3-Dimethylpyrazine
 2,5-Dimethylpyrazine
 2,6-Dimethylpyrazine
 Dimethyltetrahydrobenzofuranone
 delta-Dodecalactone
 gamma-Dodecalactone
 para-Ethoxybenzaldehyde
 Ethyl 10-Undecenoate
 Ethyl 2-Methylbutyrate
 Ethyl Acetate
 Ethyl Acetoacetate
 Ethyl Alcohol
 Ethyl Benzoate
 Ethyl Butyrate
 Ethyl Cinnamate
 Ethyl Decanoate
 Ethyl Fenchol
 Ethyl Furoate
 Ethyl Heptanoate
 Ethyl Hexanoate
 Ethyl Isovalerate
 Ethyl Lactate
 Ethyl Laurate
 Ethyl Levulinate
 Ethyl Maltol
 Ethyl Methyl Phenylglycidate
 Ethyl Myristate
 Ethyl Nonanoate
 Ethyl Octadecanoate
 Ethyl Octanoate
 Ethyl Oleate
 Ethyl Palmitate
 Ethyl Phenylacetate
 Ethyl Propionate
 Ethyl Salicylate
 Ethyl trans-2-Butenoate
 Ethyl Valerate
 Ethyl Vanillin
 2-Ethyl (or Methyl)-(3,5 and 6)-Methoxypyrazine
 2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol, 3-Ethyl -2 -Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One
 2-Ethyl-3, (5 or 6)-Dimethylpyrazine
 5-Ethyl-3-Hydroxy-4-Methyl-2(5H)-Furanone
 2-Ethyl-3-Methylpyrazine
 4-Ethylbenzaldehyde
 4-Ethylguaiacol
 para-Ethylphenol
 3-Ethylpyridine
 Eucalyptol

[creedsister]

Sweet Heart Just Pray That Sis Quits ..But The Lord Knows This Would Not Be The Best Time To Quit

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr)

Heres a short list of stuff found in your smoke. Read them and think about what U r breathing in. Its bad enough living in the city! bah!

I will post up to E here and i will have to put the rest in a word document!!!! Read if U dare!

Yes I have read that list before and I know all too well cuz here in CA you can't light up with out some one giving you some rehearsed speech about what is in cigarettes and how bad they are for you. Well you know what I am an adult living in America it is my Freedom of choice to smoke and I enjoy every freakin' breath of it... I also enjoy smoking a pipe and occasionally partake in the pleasure of smoking a cigar... YES Tobacco is bad for YOU but saying that it causes adverse health effects on others who don't use it is nothing more than Bullshit rhetoric

[creedsister]

its not good for ya and im trying to quit for the very first time ever and its a bitch but im doing the best i can..i,ve smoked since i was 12 ...

[creedsister]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sincirr)

Heres a short list of stuff found in your smoke. Read them and think about what U r breathing in. Its bad enough living in the city! bah!

I will post up to E here and i will have to put the rest in a word document!!!! Read if U dare!

the precious donna that was nice of you to post all that information