Isn't it ironic?!

[titan9]

Well, Marcos(by the way, my name is Michael, but I rarely go by it on forums, lol), if you do remember, I did defend Scott a heckuva lot a few months ago. And by that, I mean, I defended him as a person. But like I believe I have said earlier in this same thread(the thread is so long, I can't remember if I said it or not!) I finally realized, who am I to defend Scott Stapp the person? I mean, really, I don't know him at all. I know and love his music. I'll defend the heck out of Scott Stapp the musician, but the person? I just can't do that.

Even in those posts in which I defended Stapp the person, I always tried to be respectful of other people's opinions but at the same time, never backed down in the heat of an argument. Eventually, the argument with me and another person(or, at times, a few different people) died down and eventually, we found something to agree on, something to make peace with. The discussions I had with non-Stapp fans always were pretty peaceful and not hateful in the slightest bit. I never felt like I was being torn down as a person, just having my opinion questioned. Which was fine by me.

I have realized that not every single thing I say will be applauded by someone, or even agreed with. I realize that it is my opinion, and by saying it, I, in a way, am opening myself up to harsh criticism or possibly a heated discussion. But if I came here to post my opinion, I need to be prepared for someone to disect it and need to be prepared to defend my opinion if necessary. And, really, I don't have to, because, afterall, it is my opinion. If people don't like it, fine by me, but I'll try to respect the fact they don't like it. I'll respect their opinion and hope they do the same for me.

I have also noticed that a lot of Stapp fans that have been here in the past, are hardly active here anymore. It could be a combination of things: PBF, lack of interest in these awesome forums or maybe even people who just think that they are un-welcome here. I honestly think that two of those things I mentioned are mostly to blame: PBF(an awesome fan site, by the way) and those people feeling un-welcome just because of the treatment that some are receiving, just because some are having their opinion questioned. People shouldn't feel that way, and I personally don't. I get my opinion of Stapp's music questioned here, but I don't mind it at all. It doesn't make me feel un-welcomed here. Because, again, it's just my opinion.

I wish that everyone here could get along and these fights would cease to exist. But, unfortunately, that probably won't happen. I guess all we can do is just try to be respectful of one another's opinion.

[fluttergirl]

exactly.
i know that we disagree on that, but there is no love lost between us, no?
we get along perfectly amiably.
and i respect the way you defend stapp, honestly, i do.

[titan9]

And I respect your opinion as well. That's really all you can do on these forums, is respect one another's opinions. That does not mean we have to agree with someone else's opinion, just attempt to find something about it that we can respect.

[Ann Allusion]

Marcos...PM

[Bridge of Clay]

saw the pop-up box. will get back at ya when I'm home.

[fluttergirl]

and Ann, one more thing, i dont want you to think im telling you to post, or not. i would never pressume to do so.
however, i will ask that you post with respect. im not aware entirely how you took that, but on reading your response, i think you either misunderstood me or didnt quite read my post. and i will tell you, if youre going to be disrespectful although it may be your choice, theres no point. if it has no respect or understanding in it, it has no value or worth in its words.
wether or not you are capaple of posting with respect is up to you, however.

[RMadd]

Quote: (Originally Posted by fluttergirl)

is that possible with you having 13.333333333333 times as many posts as i do?

and you know math?????? wow, i think Marcos might need to make room after all lol
hey, if someone impresses me w/ sharp witticisms & a highly evolved sense of humor, they're on my list, regardless of how many posts they might have. it just so happens that most of my heroes have more posts than others.

[fluttergirl]

i think...i was just touched a little bit there.

[tremonti4life04]

i love cheese

[Bridge of Clay]

you have the distance factor working on your favor

[Ann Allusion]

Quote: (Originally Posted by fluttergirl)

and Ann, one more thing, i dont want you to think im telling you to post, or not. i would never pressume to do so.
however, i will ask that you post with respect. im not aware entirely how you took that, but on reading your response, i think you either misunderstood me or didnt quite read my post. and i will tell you, if youre going to be disrespectful although it may be your choice, theres no point. if it has no respect or understanding in it, it has no value or worth in its words.
wether or not you are capaple of posting with respect is up to you, however.

when a person feels invalidated, i realize that it is difficult to show respect...but it seems that the words and phrases that make so many feel they are being invalidated are also words and phrases used to express or share concern, give advice, and can be used in a positive way as well.

One of the requirements of respect is not feeling invalidated...therein, is where i find confusion, for if one uses the words and phrases that cause invalidation, even tho they are used without malice...they will still be taken as disrespectful, condesending and patronizing.

respect is a word that has many meanings to many different people...it would be difficult for me to post with respect and still meet each person's expectation of their personal meaning of the word.

So, with that in mind, the only option i would have would be to either not comment at all...or make a comment in support of the other person and their belief and feelings (opinions) without interjecting my belief and feelings (opinions) at risk of causing them to feel invalidated, and thus disrespected.

and should i initiate a thread and i felt invalidated by someones comment and disrespected, would i not still be accused of being disrespectful to them if my return comment expressed any feelings (opinions) of my own..because then i would not be respecting their feelings (opinions), according to the rules of respect.

How do you feel about what i have said? Doesn't this strike you as a somewhat counterproductive way to make comments on a BB?...

just a couple of thoughts that came to mind.

~peace, out.

[Ana4Stapp]

[quote=fluttergirl].

Quote:

lets take Ana4Stapp for example (no specific reason, other than i think she wont mind me using her for an example, lets just) i do not agree with her stance on Stapp. it is different than mine. however, when she says that she is a Stapp fan, i respect that. i do not laugh at her, i do not mock her for being so.

I really don't mind, but (not sure why you choosed me, ) I'd like to clarify something:

yeah, I'm a Stapp fan, but first of all I'm a Creed fan, like the most people here...I love their songs and miss them...
I'm also a AB fan, actually I listened to ODR much more than Creed songs...I love Tremo and like Myles's voice a lot...
As for Scott Stapp, I love this guy, like a musician, he is a great singer and a real good lyricist... But I'm not a "blind" fan of him, dont' put him on altar like some members here...(even though I respect their opinions) Actually I'm very frustrated how Stapp is acting, taking so much time to release his solo cd, wrtiting letters that gave us nothing new and subscribing them as SS Creed solo'05,saying "in august, maybe in september" is album is going to be released...


The first time i listened to AB I noticed the guys were HAPPY making very good music and I thought how Stapp lost it...how he was distant...I'm not saying he distroyed Creed, but you know how he contributed to the end...
I 'm Stapp fan, but I have to admit when he's wrong...and do you know something? Sometimes I think he just didn't believe Creed could really ends and the other guys, specially Tremonti could continue without him...playing, recording cds, or that is, surviving...

As for respecting different opinions, I'm sure it's the right thing to do, on boards... People here have the right to think different and expose it...and we have to respect the divergent opinions... by the way,mocking or laughing at someone with a different idea is not a good example of maturity...and this what we expected from the members here.

I can give you an easy example: I'm a Stapp fan and miss Creed, but this is not an obstacle to make such good friends like uncertaindrumer, who really dislikes Stapps, prefers AB stuff and also says "I don't miss Creed" ...and I admire this guy for being honest (not rude) all the time he posts.
In fact,he's very kind and respectful with me and we started it with a little discussion...lol, but now, actually,we respect our differences, what no means we have to agree all the time ...by the way, we're always joking to each other ...and PM 'd a lot too...
See? This a real mature behavior...

PS: Thanks uncertain, for being my cool example...

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Bridge of Clay)

And what leads me to think that? Let's take Ana4Stapp for example, again. She's more of a Stapp fan than an AB fan, although she likes both. Still, you don't see her causing arguments or people complaining over the same blah blah blah posts. Why? Coz her posts are respectful and she doesn't try and get in everybody else's nerves on purpose. But then... you may say she's an exception. Is she? Let's see... (forgive me for pointing fingers, but they're all for good people) Frankie, Julie, Robyn, titan9 (forgot your name, sorry!) and lot of other people that unfortunately aren't as active as they used to be.

I know some of them left the board think people got too harsh on Stapp, but still I don't recall of them ever causing trouble. They were always ethic and respectful.

Humm, Do you know something? You're my HERO!!!!!!

Beijos, beijos, beijos

[TeriB19]

Quote: (Originally Posted by titan9)

I'll defend the heck out of Scott Stapp the musician, but the person? I just can't do that.

I get my opinion of Stapp's music questioned here, but I don't mind it at all. It doesn't make me feel un-welcomed here. Because, again, it's just my opinion.

I would like to address this, Michael (may I call you Michael? ). I don't think the issue here is Stapp's ability as a musician. I think many, if not all of us agree, musically as well as lyrically, he's fantastic. Ok, maybe his voice was stronger in the MOP/HC days, but his ability as a songwriter cannot be questioned.

When you defend your position on how you feel about Scott, his music, his persona, whatever, you do so in a respectful manner. There is a way to voice your opinion, and there is a way to make people feel belittled. Being condescending is not the way to go about it. If that is done, you can bet your ass you're going to be jumped on (not you personally, just in general).

[titan9]

Oh, yeah, I always try to do it in a respectful manner. I know that if I belittle anyone, rest assured, I'll get ripped apart. It's a fact of life, lol. You're right, though, most here don't question him as a musician, although some do. Those that do.....they know who they are.

And, yeah, you can call me Michael or Mike or Titan or whatever you prefer. It's all good.