Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Again...you misunderstood my point...unbelievable! I said I agree with your governement and also with Bush's position () which by the way, you disagreed my dear...



Yeah...finally we are (almost) saying the same thing...this is definitely waht I was trying to say to you: the cartoons are getting the situation even worse...its a problematic area leaded by controversial governements who put religion as the principal issue because its more easy to CONTROL people!!!! This is the reason they use religion (please Im not saying Im against the religions ) this is the reason they will hate your country and all the its represents more and more ...so why deffend carttons as the freedom of speech? It is not worth it!!!!!

However, in my opinion... it's also not worth defending the hypocritical nature of their cricisms. If they can't condemn the people who have hijacked their own religion... how do they expect the rest of the world to view them?

You also have to remember that they most likely hate Brazilians, just as much as they hate Europeans. You come from a Catholic nation. Where do you think that puts you on the spectrum of Islamic hatred?

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Well, I don't see how airing videotapes of innocent people being decapitated and bleeding to death will sit with individuals who are watching the nightly news. I don't think the families of those victims would be too keen on watching their loved one being decapitated while a terrorist chants "God is Great!" No... America is isn't anymore conservative these days. The political and moral dynamic of America is the same. You just have polarizing figures in both political parties who are pitting Americans against each other and igniting a culture war. The media hasn't changed in since Bush has been in office. You do need facts if you're going to try to taint America as being a repressive, fascist-like state.

Once and for all: I NEVER said Americ was fascist state...(I think when you dont have a interesting argument to say you just repeat certain words ) but I also dont see how editing a Rolling Stones song can contribute to improve lives of families in America...

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Once and for all: I NEVER said Americ was fascist state...(I think when you dont have a interesting argument to say you just repeat certain words ) but I also dont see how editing a Rolling Stones song can contribute to improve lives of families in America...

I don't know if you remember this... but Bill Clinton's vice president, Al Gore, had a wife by the name of Tipper Gore who was champion for censorship in music. In some ways... you have her to thank.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

I don't know if you remember this... but Bill Clinton's vice president, Al Gore, had a wife by the name of Tipper Gore who was champion for censorship in music. In some ways... you have her to thank.

No i dont remember it... btw what kind of music?

[Chase]

Rap to rock. Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents...esource_Center

She got into it after hearing her 12 year old daughter playing a Prince song.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Rap to rock. Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents...esource_Center

She got into it after hearing her 12 year old daughter playing a Prince song.

WOW!!!!!! This is nonsense , ridiculous and a waste of time and The Filthy Fifteen list...

Thanks for educating me in america's moral in Clintonn era...

[RalphyS]

I think we need to rehash the cartoon-story a bit.

Q&A: The Muhammad cartoons row

Quote:

The Danish newspaper that originally published the cartoons commissioned them after the author of a book about Islam said he was unable to find a single person willing to provide images of the Prophet.

The newspaper's culture editor, Flemming Rose, says he did not ask the illustrators to draw satirical caricatures of Muhammad. He asked them to draw the Prophet as they saw him.

Rose has insisted that there is a long Danish tradition of biting satire with no taboos, and that Muhammad and Islam are being treated no differently to other religions.

So one Danish newspaper wanted some images of 'the Prophet' and some illustrators turned it into cartoons, satirical images in which wrong views of the general public towards islam are overemphasized for humor's sake. Everyone in western nations knows that cartoons are not truth. Some imans can not only not see the humor in it, but they write home too islamic organisations and nations, that they should protest these cartoons. Not in a civilized manor, but with the burning of flags and threats of violence. And now the illustrators and editors are being blamed for being insensitive. The muslims shout 'disrespect', but respect is something you have to earn and by reacting in such a manor to innocent drawings, that is exactly why the people in the west view islam as an intolerant religion and see most muslims as possible terrorists. Ofcourse this is not true for all muslims, but by allowing reactions like these to occur they only increase this view.

Quote:

Many Muslims say that the cartoons - one of which shows Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban - are extremely and deliberately offensive, expressing a growing European hostility towards and fear of Muslims. The portrayal of the Prophet Muhammad and Muslims in general as terrorists is seen as particularly offensive.

Yes, and ofcourse the appropriate moderate protest from the islamic community and out of islamic nations has changed the view of islam as an intolerant and terrorist religion altogether now.

Quote:

In many European countries there is a strong sense of secular values being under fire from conservative Islamic traditions among immigrant communities. Many commentators see the cartoons as a response to this.

There are also issues of integration - how much should the host society compromise to accommodate immigrant populations, and how much should immigrants integrate into the society they are making home.

Exactly, must we now adapt our moral standards in the west, even our sense of humor, just because in the east they cannot handle it. We cannot let the sensibility of any religion dictate the freedom of press and speech in the west. In Rotterdam Maroccan youths were celebrating when they heard the news of 9/11, the whole of The Netherlands (and the world as far as they heard of it) was appalled, but alas there is no law against it.

In hindsight was it wise to publish these cartoons, probably not, was it wrong, no, and this is the reason why other European papers also published the cartoons, not to instigate more riots, but just to substantiate the basic right that the Danes had to publish these cartoons. Sure we can be tolerant to a point and somewhat sensitive, but we have to draw a line somewhere, as too how far we go to appease some radical opinion.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd)

So while the various papers might not be breaking any domestic or international statutes, some people need to realize that the situation with Arabic-speaking, predominantly-Muslim countries is fairly problematic, and that we must act as though we're walking on eggshells when dealing with the situation. Such blatant disregard for the delicate nature of the matter is terribly ignorant and irresponsible.

Exactly!!!!!! Finally... someone who sees the political damage behind it

[RalphyS]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Exactly!!!!!! Finally... someone who sees the political damage behind it

No, not finally, the political damage and even worse, loss of human lifes is obvious, and we all see it, but instead of blaming the newspapers or the cartoonists for being insensitive, I blame the rioters for being too sensitive.

An apology should be given if you did something wrong, not if you did something stupid (and even the stupidity of printing the cartoons is debatable imho).

The Danes and other threatened people of European nations deserve an apology for those who resort to violence and not the other way around.

[Chase]

Maybe if Islam, as a whole, starts condemning the people that hijacked their religion... Europe will take them seriously. It's funny that they have no problem with Iran's president making Hitler-esque comments... or Al Zarqawi beheading INNOCENT people in Iraq... or suicide bombers targeting OTHER MUSLIMS... but a freaking cartoon pisses them off.

I said this earlier: either the Prophet Muhammad asserts the killing of non-Muslims... or their too scared to speak up against the Islamo fascists who are destroying that religion.

They're showing their intolerance for not accepting the rights to a free press in these European nations. It probably wasn't the smartest thing for Europeans to antagonize Muslims... but they did it in a satirical sense. Jesus has been a target, Buddha has been a target, Moses has also. In the show South Park for instance, Jesus is a character and the creators have also satirized Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. Why are the reactions in the Islamic world so different compared to those of other religions? Why are so many Muslims intolerant to Jews, Christians, and Hindus? Why is there a very large and violent sect of Islam? If Muslims don't condemn suicide bombings... can you really blame a Danish newspaper for publishing a picture of Muhammad with a turban that looks like a bomb? Is there a truth behind the satire? Does the truth hurt? Is that what this is all about?

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Maybe if Islam, as a whole, starts condemning the people that hijacked their religion... Europe will take them seriously. It's funny that they have no problem with Iran's president making Hitler-esque comments... or Al Zarqawi beheading INNOCENT people in Iraq... or suicide bombers targeting OTHER MUSLIMS... but a freaking cartoon pisses them off.

Yeah, but carttons are giving more and more 'reasons' to Irans president to increase the hate of occident...

Also suicide bombers think they are doing it in the name of their God...but carttons are 'against' their Gods law...why you cant see it????
Theres no logical when you are talking about rerligion...religion is the opposite of logic, Chase.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

I said this earlier: either the Prophet Muhammad asserts the killing of non-Muslims... or their too scared to speak up against the Islamo fascists who are destroying that religion.

The fascists use religion to control people ...

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

They're showing their intolerance for not accepting the rights to a free press in these European nations. It probably wasn't the smartest thing for Europeans to antagonize Muslims... but they did it in a satirical sense. Jesus has been a target, Buddha has been a target, Moses has also. In the show South Park for instance, Jesus is a character and the creators have also satirized Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. Why are the reactions in the Islamic world so different compared to those of other religions? Why are so many Muslims intolerant to Jews, Christians, and Hindus? Why is there a very large and violent sect of Islam? If Muslims don't condemn suicide bombings... can you really blame a Danish newspaper for publishing a picture of Muhammad with a turban that looks like a bomb? Is there a truth behind the satire? Does the truth hurt? Is that what this is all about?

Its not a case of freedom of speech ----its a case about choosing PEACE or (more) WAR in a very problematic area... Why Bush said hes against cartoons? Wasnt he a president of a nation that claims for FREEDOM in all means???? Why he didnt agree with that?? Please clarify the opinion of your president...

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Yeah, but carttons are giving more and more 'reasons' to Irans president to increase the hate of occident...

Also suicide bombers think they are doing it in the name of their God...but carttons are 'against' their Gods law...why you cant see it????
Theres no logical when you are talking about rerligion...religion is the opposite of logic, Chase.



The fascists use religion to control people ...




Its not a case of freedom of speech ----its a case about choosing PEACE or (more) WAR in a very problematic area... Why Bush said hes against cartoons? Wasnt he a president of a nation that claims for FREEDOM in all means???? Why he didnt agree with that?? Please clarify the opinion of your president...

lol are you kidding me? I can see as clear as day that these people won't condemn terrorists shooting a woman in the back of head while chanting "God is great!" Yet, will in turn protest because they can't take a joke or accept Denmark's culture.

This is a case of freedom of speech... a concept that has been pretty repressed in the Islamic world. The editors of these European newspapers didn't publish these articles because they wanted to start a war... they were simply satirizing the vicious animosity that is spewing from the Islamic world. President Bush isn't against the right to free speech... he just knows that these image won't help America's image in the Middle East. Explain to me why Muslims won't condemn terrorist attacks on fellow Muslims. That is far worse than a cartoon... and you know it. This religion and culture has a lot of holes in it... and it's become clear to Europeans.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

No, not finally, the political damage and even worse, loss of human lifes is obvious, and we all see it, but instead of blaming the newspapers or the cartoonists for being insensitive, I blame the rioters for being too sensitive.

An apology should be given if you did something wrong, not if you did something stupid (and even the stupidity of printing the cartoons is debatable imho).

The Danes and other threatened people of European nations deserve an apology for those who resort to violence and not the other way around.

Look, Ralphy Im a person who ALWAYS defended FREEDOM in all means-- I grew up in a country that lived a long era of dictatorship...so FREEDOM is a very important thing to me and to my people...
I m a history teacher with liberal point of view --who always voted for lefts party (btw - The Workers Party!) so democracy is a word I really love. But I think that we have to "USE" democracy and all the rights with RESPONSABILITY!!!!!!!!!!
So you and Chase are saying that in the name of freedom we can do wverything we want???? EVERYTHING????

Can you imagine if those cartoons were refering to the Holocaust?? Would europeans think the same???? Oh ..jews nreed to be tolerant...ihn the name of freedom!!!!!! One thing is say " I hate Bush foreign policy and all the its represents all over the world "and other is kill George Bush and all the american people because they represent the opressor and unfair capitalism that condemned my people to the poverty" This is insane!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Look, Ralphy Im a person who ALWAYS defended FREEDOM in all means-- I grew up in a country that lived a long era of dictatorship...so FREEDOM is a very important thing to me and to my people...
I m a history teacher with liberal point of view --who always voted for lefts party (btw - The Workers Party!) so democracy is a word I really love. But I think that we have to "USE" democracy and all the rights with RESPONSABILITY!!!!!!!!!!
So you and Chase are saying that in the name of freedom we can do wverything we want???? EVERYTHING????

Can you imagine if those cartoons were refering to the Holocaust?? Would europeans think the same???? Oh ..jews nreed to be tolerant...ihn the name of freedom!!!!!! One thing is say " I hate Bush foreign policy and all the its represents all over the world "and other is kill George Bush and all the american people because they represent the opressor and unfair capitalism that condemned my people to the poverty" This is insane!!!!!!!!!!!

Muslims publish and say all sorts of racist, anti-Semitic, anti-European, anti-American bullshit all the time. Last time I checked... Europeans weren't in the streets burning effagies of Osama bin Laden and his henchman... and chanting "Death to Islam!" In all honesty... the Islamic fascists in the Middle East are probably the least diverse and least tolerant group on the planet. They're hypocritical, cowardly, and repressive. They gave Europeans this image Muhammad as a ticking time bomb.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

lol are you kidding me? I can see as clear as day that these people won't condemn terrorists shooting a woman in the back of head while chanting "God is great!" Yet, will in turn protest because they can't take a joke or accept Denmark's culture.

This is a case of freedom of speech... a concept that has been pretty repressed in the Islamic world. The editors of these European newspapers didn't publish these articles because they wanted to start a war... they were simply satirizing the vicious animosity that is spewing from the Islamic world. President Bush isn't against the right to free speech... he just knows that these image won't help America's image in the Middle East. Explain to me why Muslims won't condemn terrorist attacks on fellow Muslims. That is far worse than a cartoon... and you know it. This religion and culture has a lot of holes in it... and it's become clear to Europeans.

Bush is at least taking a resposible (wow I canT believe- im saying it-lol) position --because he knowS that sItuation can be even more worse and its not because "these image won't help America's image in the Middle East"-- (you are so naive, Chase!) its because it will provoke another conflict in that problematic area...think a little: muslims will be unite against ocidentals --their leader finnaly have a good reason to put US and Europe as the EVIL!!!!!!! Can yoiu imagine their strenght ???? I know you live in a superpower that has an efficent military force all around the world...you cleary have this power ---but they have the religious power!!!!!! This is waht Bush definitely wants to avoid...Its so clear , Chase...