Scott at Nascar Awards Fri. Dec. 3rd

[Steve]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

People are really missing the point here. Why is it that we can't criticize a performance if it was not to our liking? It has nothing to do with Scott Stapp as a person, or his fricken image, for crying out loud. Bottom line is, some of the stuff he has done since the breakup has not been good.

This has been my exact point from the beginning. I must not be voicing myself properly I guess. I have nothing against Stapp as a musician. I became a Creed fan for many of the same reasons as everyone else - Stapp's voice, the deep lyrics, and the crunching music arrangements. But, as Dogstar said, some stuff Stapp has done recently isn't to my liking. His voice has gone down the drain since the last year and a half of Creed. Some of his live performances have sounded bad IMO. Also some of his actions in the public scene have been less than perfect. That has made me lose respect for Stapp, but that doesn't mean I don't like his music. I'm not going to stop listening to Creed because Stapp got in a fight. If Tremonti gets arrested for some crime tomorrow, I'm not going to not listen to AB. I'm no less of a fan of Stapp, Creed, or AB than anyone else - respecting the musicians as people has nothing to do with it.

[Steve]

Just to add one other thing to this topic... there's a similar discussion going on over at The Pit's messageboard. Someone on PBF started a topic about how The Pit used to be Stapp lovers but now they hate him. Gatalove made a great post that I thought should be quoted here.

Quote:

I'm sick and tired of people making US to be the bad guys. We have a right to our own opinions just as you all have a right to yours. Discuss it in a MATURE way without calling people idiots, then you have every right to post on ANY board. There hasn't been ANY major drama around here for weeks. Why? Because Stapp hasn't really been mentioned. The first time the guy goes on t.v. and we say we didn't like what we see, suddenly all the defenders come out and start bitching a fit telling us that we're idiots, immature, etc.

Now you tell me, WHO are the ones who have him on a pedestal? US or PBF which is a shrine to Stapp and should anyone who doesn't "Fit the Stapp Worshipper Profile" is not allowed to post or view anything?

Double standard if you ask me. If we went around banning Stapp defenders around here, you would all find something else to bitch about.

[TeriB19]

Quote: (Originally Posted by fluttergirl)

maybe there wouldt be so many inferences made if you would come out and say whatever it is you are wanting to say, w/o adding all the cutsie smiles and laughs to show it....
perfect example-note to self- unnecessary

I have to agree with you, in regards to Ann's posts. Say what you mean, without all the smilies and innuendo.

One thing I can definitely say about Alter Bridge, that I cannot say about Creed, is how much more easily accessible they are to fans. Meet and greets were almost unheard of when Creed was on the Weathered tour. You'd hear the occasional story of fans running into the guys at the bus but they were few and far between, and almost never mentioned Stapp. I am of the understanding that Stapp was always followed by that big bodyguard that was always between us on the rail and Stapp on the stage. I did not see bodyguard one at the AB show in Philly. What it comes down to is this, I loved Creed. I love AB and I hope to be able to love Stapp's solo stuff. For now, he's not coming up with anything new, other than Relearn Love, which was met with a lukewarm reception. But IMO, as long as he's relying so heavily on his past, he won't be able to break free and move on to the future. Again, just my opinion.

[Chase]

I keep hearing that Scott keeps "reliving the past." Alter Bridge decided to release the most Creed sounding song as their first single... that's the main reason why "One Day Remains" doesn't sit well with a lot of critics. Half of the CD is rehashed Creed riffs. Dogstar said that it's okay for Jerry Cantrell and Scott Weiland to perform old songs because of the fact that the bands had been inactive for quite a while "even years." How long ago was the last Creed performance? About 2 years. Okay... so Scott performed a song that he wrote that hasn't been seen live in 2 years. If you dislike his music, that's fine... but why is the fact he's lived a less than perfect life relevant to his music career? As for his voice quality... it happens to ALL singers. It deteriorates. Eddie Vedder isn't the same singer he was 8 years ago. That's just the way it works.

[Dogstar]

God, I feel like a broken record. People were still hoping Creed was going to put out another album, so the breakup, which was announced in June, is still a sore point with a lot of fans. It's still new to a lot of people. With AIC it was common knowledge that they were done after a few years. AIC's last studio release (aside from the MTV performance) was in 1995 and Layne's drug problems had been well-documented. They didn't even tour for the release of Tripod. Just about everyone knew AIC was pretty much done. Same with STP and Scott Weiland's mess. Jerry Cantrell's solo CD came out in 1998, a full three years after AIC's inactivity.

Eddie Vedder can't hit the high notes the way he used to, but his voice still has very good tone and he is never flat. I have countless bootlegs and I saw them as recently as last year, and the man was on his game. Scott's voice has suffered much more.

And as I said, I don't give a crap about his personal life. It has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the man's music.

With regard to AB, I will agree that there are some songs that sound too Creedish and I wish they had gone in more of the direction of the songs that Myles had a hand in. That has been discussed quite a bit on these boards. I was critical myself. I still enjoy their album, though, and I'm looking forward to their sophomore effort, which my guess is, will sound less like Creed. They will find their own sound. Some of this stuff was written during the Weathered tour, probably for the fourth album before things went sour.

[aussiecreeder]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

God, I feel like a broken record. People were still hoping Creed was going to put out another album, so the breakup, which was announced in June, is still a sore point with a lot of fans. It's still new to a lot of people. With AIC it was common knowledge that they were done after a few years. AIC's last studio release (aside from the MTV performance) was in 1995 and Layne's drug problems had been well-documented. They didn't even tour for the release of Tripod. Just about everyone knew AIC was pretty much done. Same with STP and Scott Weiland's mess. Jerry Cantrell's solo CD came out in 1998, a full three years after AIC's inactivity.

Eddie Vedder can't hit the high notes the way he used to, but his voice still has very good tone and he is never flat. I have countless bootlegs and I saw them as recently as last year, and the man was on his game. Scott's voice has suffered much more.

And as I said, I don't give a crap about his personal life. It has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the man's music.

With regard to AB, I will agree that there are some songs that sound too Creedish and I wish they had gone in more of the direction of the songs that Myles had a hand in. That has been discussed quite a bit on these boards. I was critical myself. I still enjoy their album, though, and I'm looking forward to their sophomore effort, which my guess is, will sound less like Creed. They will find their own sound. Some of this stuff was written during the Weathered tour, probably for the fourth album before things went sour.

*claps*

[fluttergirl]

Steve, Dogstar, Terri, thank you, youve pretty much voiced my opinion. I must concur with the broken record. This whole thing had been hashed out in three threads now. I'm sick of fighting with people who either see themselves as having no faults, or see only faults in others, and refuse to do anything but argue. I've started dreading coming to this board because of these threads, so I just won't post in them anymore. Theres no point. Anyone who wants my opinion on the matter, feel free to ask, but I'm not going to volunteer myself to be cut down for difference of opinion anymore. With that said, I will make reference to the last time I was quoted.

Ann, I dont know what seemed to make this so personal to you, but I was merely stating my opinion.
Yes I did have something to say, but I chose not to. However here goes- I find it ironic that anytime people point out major downfalls of Stapp's they are called either mere mistakes, or the inference that the AB guys are just as bad, merely not as publicized comes up. Trust me, there are enough people out there who hate AB enough, if there was stuff to be publicized, it would be. And were you not faced with the decision to either stand behind Stapp or realize that he had major personal and character faults? Or are you still refusing to face such decisions. I think anyone here can see that you have obviously put Stapp on a pedastale, whether you are aware of it or not. Anyone who can call the Chicago show, the barfight, etc, mere mistakes, and not see it as a possible reflection of character, probably either holds Stapp in too high a regard, or on a pedastale. However, that I Sirrelevant to the music, Which I am still waiting on, and can't really support untill it is here. By constantly making inuendos about Stapp and the 'other' people, the 'some' people who are closeminded, you have shown that you are either against AB, or most certainly, not for them. Earlier in this thread, when you assumed that AB has a pedastale to fall off of. Why would you assume so if you wished them well. I wish well to Scott. I hope nothing of the sort to him, and cant understand how you can both support someone, and assume they'll have some big downfall that will make me question their career and their person. And it would upset me mostly because as stated MANY times before, by myself, and I think dogstar in particular (correct me if I'm wrong, please) that there simply hasnt been enough time to heal. There are people who to this day dont know Creed has broken up. That would be the equivalent of you going to a Weathered concert (because that is where everything started to fall apart), and seeing Myles singing WAWO. Its shocking and its painful.
Again, like I've said, after a year or so? Sure. Now? No. Please, people, stop misquoting here. We're noting saying ever, we're saying NOW. And yes, there are such erronious mistakes that should not be given automatic forgiveness for. Such as, promoting yourself by a still newly band. And if you dont see anyone blindly supporting wither side, then, well, I've wasted my time typing this.

Like I said, any more questions, Pm me or whatever, but I'm tired of wasting my time in this thread....

[Marty]

Not that I want to get in all this stuff...but I want to throw in my two bits about the performance.

I was really saddened, Stapp couldn't hit the notes...the bassist and guitarist(s!!) just plain sucked. If you mess up with distoration on, for the most part it isn't noticed, but when you do on a clean part...it is. They looked like of like the Story of the Year guitarists, heh. Anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I still like Stapp, but in my opinion, if this is a show of what is to come...I'm glad there wasn't a new Creed record (in reference to his voice)...and if he can't get it fixed, healed or whatever...I think he should be a producer or something. The hardest thing for a fan to see, is their favorite artist continue to try to make music when they can't any longer...and I hope it doesn't come to that.

[SCOTTSMYMAN]

You know what I hear what everybody is saying and I apologize for anything that may have come out wrong or just because I wanted to be cruel.

Now that I'm a little bit more rational today let me just say that if people are judging him with there opinions based on the musical aspect of it, that's fine. you are intitled to your opinion. I don't think his performance was all that bad. I think he was a little nervous in the beginning but loosened up as it went on. As far as Goneblind, the back up band they weren't great but they weren't that bad.

The problem I have is people basing their opinions based solely on his character. Yes, he has really screwed up alot and I mean alot in the last few years but the same can be said for many singers and other artists. By making up your opinion based solely on that and not because of the music I think people are being biased. It's like saying don't listen to Scott Weiland because he's a drug addicted or Jim Morrison of the Doors because a long time ago he exposed himself to a crowd. This was all I was trying to say and instead I got mad and blurted our stupid shit. Evryone is entitled to their own opinion and I guess I'm just not ready to give up on him just yet!

Also, I'm not saying everyone is doing this, but their are a few of you who are. People make mistakes big and small as Steve said "Worship the music not the band members"

(and now I'm done!!)

[Chase]

I wonder how good my voice would be if I did the extensive touring he did. Put everything in context. Creed's touring schedule totally strained his voice and emotional well being. Yes, he has done stupid stuff. Put everything in perspective... he's nothing compared to people like Scott Weiland. There's no time limit that says when Scott can perform songs from his old band. I mean... you guys would be freaking out if he performed a Creed song two years from now for the first time. All I'm saying is... if you guys are willing to bash Stapp for exploiting Creed... do the same for Alter Bridge. They were a band who bragged about how they would be totally different from Creed... and that obviously wasn't the case. I love Alter Bridge, and I love Stapp... however, giving Stapp shit for like every move he makes is screwed up. What I'm getting from this topic is that Scott sucks because: He got in a bar fight, doesn't have his My Own Prison voice, performed Higher... and I think that's it. It was TNT's decision air "Higher." Had they aired "Relearn Love" the bitching in this topic would be relatively less... although pretty much everyone seems to hate that song as well. So, he's damned if he does and damned if doesn't.

[titan9]

I just watched Scott's performance of Higher on the Nascar awards(I caught the tail end of it when it was on TV). It was very different not seeing Tremonti and Philips there, but I gotta say, Stapp sounded good vocally. The music on the other hand.....I wouldn't say they(his backing band) botched it but they sure as heck haven't mastered the song musically. They hit it at certain points, but missed at other points. Maybe they were nervous, maybe they just haven't practiced the song alot(considering they're probably busy working on their own stuff and Stapp's solo CD) In any event, I'd say Scott sounded much better in this performance than on the World Series one(since he had a sinus infection then, it's understandable) and I think Stapp still has a good voice. Not as great as before, but I'm still pumped about his solo career.

Moving on to the issue of him playing Creed songs, I'm not for him playing Creed songs but I'm not completely against it, either. He's made up his mind and he never said he wouldn't play the songs. So he's not lying about this. I know it's painful for some(and if he did this 5 months ago, it would've probably been painful for me) but we've just gotta move on and stop the bickering. I understand that some of you guys just don't think he should be performing these songs this quickly or ever. Understandable. One of my favorite bands(Big Dismal) broke up a month ago. I haven't listened to them since before the break up. It's just too painful for me to listen to them right now and I don't think I could enjoy the music if I tried. If the guy(Eric Durrance) who was the lead singer of the group(and ironically, he's going solo as well and BD's demo was produced by Stapp) starts performing the band's songs(though Eric did write the lyrics and a good amount of the music) I probably won't like it. So I relate to those of you who are definitely against it happening.

But it seems like that's not always the reason for you guys saying negative things about Stapp and his solo career to date. I think the bottom line is this for those who do not like Stapp: If you don't like Stapp, then you probably should just steer clear of Stapp's forum and whatever Stapp does solo wise. Same thing for people who don't like Alter Bridge. Personally I'm a equal fan of all three, so none of this really bothers me. But I know this has been the source for bickering on this forum in particular. A big division seems to have happened on here(this may be my first post, but I have been reading on here for months now) since the break up. That's a shame as it's led to certain members on here either leaving, or not posting very much because of some of the things being said. And it looks like the people who have left because of the hostility were Stapp supporters. It seems to be kinda hostile for the Stapp fans here, given the Stapp supporters(that dislike AB) are outnumbered by the AB supporters(who dislike Stapp) To make this more clear, I am not saying that all AB fans are like this. There are some who are like me, equal fans of Creed, AB and Stapp. Again, same thing with Stapp supporters, not all of them dislike AB. Some of them love AB as much as they loved Creed and as much as they love Stapp. We're talking musically, not personally. The real bickering seems to be going on between the AB supporters(or people who dislike Stapp) and the Stapp supporters(or the people who dislike AB) Because of this bickering, a thread like this thread has grown to three pages of disagreement and people questioning others opinions. Like others have said, Stapp has made a great number of mistakes in his personal life. I'm sure Mark, Philips and Marshall have also made some mistakes, maybe not as many as Stapp, maybe not any that have been in the public spotlight, but they definitely aren't saints. Lead Singers in bands seem to get the most public attention out of everyone in the band, both good and bad attention. This has happened to Stapp. If he gets in a fight at a bar, it'll be front page in the entertainment section. If he has a bad performance at a concert and gets sued, it'll be front page in the entertainment section. If he gets arrested for speeding, it'll be front page in the entertainment section. See my point? The media seems to dwell on the negative things. He was the lead singer of arguably the biggest Rock band on the planet from 1999-2002. So everything that happened to him, personally and professionally, was very well publicized. I feel kinda sorry for Stapp, because no matter what good he does, there will always be people who hate on him.

To close, I'd like to thank Steve for running such a great fan site and running some very good forums. The forum diplomats do a great job on here as well. Peace

[rabidgopher04]

I think Stapp should have enlisted these guys: http://www.metronights.com/clients/a.../my_sacrifice/

[Trimontana]

Quote: (Originally Posted by rabidgopher04)

I think Stapp should have enlisted these guys: http://www.metronights.com/clients/a.../my_sacrifice/

Nice find.....LOL You guys have to listen to the Demos!!!!

I though the guy was the real Stapp......but the one who prettends to be TREMO....nothing to do with the real one...

And actually this guy...the fake Stapp sings better that Stapp does right now....oooooooooppppppppsssss ...i am ready for the critics....i see them coming...is that a bomb???

[titan9]

Now THAT is hilarious! That guy does look like Stapp. I haven't listened to the demos, but I will just to see how much he sounds like Stapp. The other guys, though...they don't really look like anyone else from Creed, lol. If this fake Stapp does sing better than the real Stapp, well, it's probably because he didn't have to go through the relentless touring schedules that Scott has.

[Chase]

lol Actually that band could probably play Creed's music better than goneblind. That's hilarious.