Creed in Guinness World of Records!

[titan9]

I think it's just cool to hate whatever Rock band breaks-through to Pop radio. Nickelback, Staind, Evanescence, Creed, Hoobastank, the list goes on. All of them are hated, and were really only hated after they had their breakthrough hits. Staind was loved at one point, or at least liked. MOP was loved by alot of Rock fans. But when those bands had their big hits, the people slowly turned against them. It sucks, but it happened. I don't let "what's cool" influence me and because of that, I remained a fan anyway, despite the bashing. But, unfortunately, alot of people let that influence them and I believe that's why the majority of people who hate/hated Creed were/are so against them.

And the singles that were big hits(Higher, WAWO, My Sacrifice, OLB) didn't sound alike, at least in my opinion. All had a different sound, different lyrics. Unfortunately, people were quick to dismiss those songs when they found out it was Creed. Didn't even give'em a real chance.

I agree with you, MOP was the best album. I can hear the title track a million times and never get sick of it. Same with One.

[Agent D]

I agree with you, Titan, totally except for saying that Evanescence, Hoobastank, and Nickelback are beyond pop because...well, they're not imo. Maybe, I'll give Nickelback some credit, maybe. But not Evanescence. They're the kinda band that is the reason rock is dying. And I dunno, who'd be crazy enough to consider Staind part of the pop genre. Even their radio-friendly singles are fairly heavy.

[titan9]

I wasn't saying that Staind was apart of the Pop genre. They're Rock, for the most part. I was simply stating that any band(that previously received good airplay on Rock stations) that broke through to Pop radio became hated. It suddenly becomes popular to hate that band. Which is stupid.

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by titan9)

I think it's just cool to hate whatever Rock band breaks-through to Pop radio. Nickelback, Staind, Evanescence, Creed, Hoobastank, the list goes on. All of them are hated, and were really only hated after they had their breakthrough hits. Staind was loved at one point, or at least liked. MOP was loved by alot of Rock fans. But when those bands had their big hits, the people slowly turned against them. It sucks, but it happened. I don't let "what's cool" influence me and because of that, I remained a fan anyway, despite the bashing. But, unfortunately, alot of people let that influence them and I believe that's why the majority of people who hate/hated Creed were/are so against them.

And the singles that were big hits(Higher, WAWO, My Sacrifice, OLB) didn't sound alike, at least in my opinion. All had a different sound, different lyrics. Unfortunately, people were quick to dismiss those songs when they found out it was Creed. Didn't even give'em a real chance.

I agree with you, MOP was the best album. I can hear the title track a million times and never get sick of it. Same with One.

I hate to disagree with you AGAIN, because we actually agree on more thigns than it seems, but people don't fall away from their favorite bands because they hit it big. They generally fall away because bands in essence "sell out" (a WAY overused term but it applies here) by catering their songs just to BE radio hits. Creed did that, and denying it is downright stupid (not saying you did, just saying). If you still enjoy the music and don't care about their attitude, good for you. However, I personally get sick of hearing single after single just catered to be a radio hit.

Creed is even more obvious when you take into account that Bullets, their only major single that DIDN'T do absurdly well, was also the only one without a pensive verse/exploding epic radio friendly chorus thing going on.

If you talk to KNOWLEDGABLE people who don't like Creed (I will agree that there ARE those who hated Creed just because they percieved it to be cool, although not the majority), they will usually admit that My own Prison is at least a decent album, and they usually will not bash a few songs from the other albums.

But when it comes to singles, they hate them. I don't particulalry HATE their singles, but I hate what they stand for. Bands are all to willing to trade credibility for the $$$ these days. While I don't think that was Creed's original intent (and it was never Philip's or Mark's intent, as AB has pretty clearly shown), they did get caught up in that system and lost their earlier charm.

And their singles do sound amazingly alike. There isn't really any denying that either. They all follow the exact same plan, they all have extremely... provocative lyrics (you either love em or hate em and most people hated em), they all have a "name that chord progression" sense to them.

Dang, people must be really getting the impression I hate Creed, but I REALLY DON'T. Almost ALWAYS I am the one defending them... geez, weird world.

Anyway, I'm not bashing Creed I am just stating what I think most people feel. And you think Hoobastank Evenascense and nickleback are god examples to put them in? Not in my book. Hoobastank wrote an album full of heavy alternative rock, then wrote ANOTHER album full of the exact same stuff except for ONE SONG, just to make it big. They gained a bunch of thirteen year old girls as fans but lost most of their original fans, myself included. And Nickelback sounds almost EXACTLY the same from song to song. They really do. Evanescense (sp?)... is one of those band that I just can't stand, for all reasons stated above.

Frankly, I would lump Creed into a category with every other major sellout band, with one difference--once you take away their singles, i LOVE a lot of their songs. I think MOP, Bullets, Freedom Fighter, Who's got my back are all very VERY good. Indeed, the fact that they were so talented makes it even more dissapointing that they had to release WAWO, Higher (which was actually their least "sellout" single, but I got so overdosed on it back when it came out that I can barely listen to it anymore), one last breath, my sacrifice, etc. They are (were) capable of so much more than that, which they showed, in songs like pity for a dime and bullets. Makes it that much more gauling that they were pressured into traveling down the $$$ route.

Unliek a lot of other hated mainstream bands, behind their singles they had lots of songs that were plenty good. Unfortunately the masses don't hear those songs.

But anyway, I am becoming very unpopular on this board, I am sure. I really am not trying to beat up on Creed, I just think that people who claim that all their songs sound different and that they had plenty of credibility are just as wrong as those who say they were talentless terrible and useless. Either side is an extreme, I think there is a happy medium.

As a sidenote, I don't think it was all Creed's fault that WAWO etc. destroyed what they could have become. I think wind-up is most at fault, if anything.

And as another knock against your theory that people just start hating bands nce they get big, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, U2, etc. all kept their credibility because they didn't change who they were to get big. They got big (gigantic in U2's case) on the merits of their music, not on the merits of their songs- specifically-made-to-appeal-to-radio-masses. I don't even LIKE Nirvana, or really even pearl jam, but those bands were different for the reasons stated above.

Anyway, hope this post isn't too provocative. I'm not trying to start arguments, only discussion. If the mods think I'm being out of line, whatever, I'll leave. But I have tried to be as "gentlemanly" as possible in these discussions.

Cheers

[titan9]

See, I wasn't at all defending Evanescence, Nickelback or Hoobastank. I don't like any of those groups. Not because they became big, but because I've listened to their music(even bought The Reason) and decided I don't like it. I do, however, remember a time that those bands were actually liked.

I still disagree with you on the singles sounding a like. But, hey, it's alright to disagree sometimes. But I do agree, the big singles were not Creed's best songs. The singles released from MOP were all awesome songs, some of their best. The singles(that were hits) that were released from the next two albums weren't the best songs on the albums. But they were pretty good songs, imo.

I do not at all believe that Stapp, Tremonti, Philips and Marshall were only in it for the money. I'd be willing to bet that they didn't have as much say in what songs were released as singles as they should have. But, maybe I'm wrong. I just don't believe they were only in it for the money.

And yeah, you're right, not all Rock/Alternative bands suffer the same fate as the ones I mentioned. But most do, with the exception of those you mentioned. I guess I should have clarified that.

And, believe me, I don't hate you on here. You seem to be a pretty smart music fan, and I appreciate the honesty. I don't agree with all that you've said, but I do agree with some of it.

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by titan9)

See, I wasn't at all defending Evanescence, Nickelback or Hoobastank. I don't like any of those groups. Not because they became big, but because I've listened to their music(even bought The Reason) and decided I don't like it. I do, however, remember a time that those bands were actually liked.

I still disagree with you on the singles sounding a like. But, hey, it's alright to disagree sometimes. But I do agree, the big singles were not Creed's best songs. The singles released from MOP were all awesome songs, some of their best. The singles(that were hits) that were released from the next two albums weren't the best songs on the albums. But they were pretty good songs, imo.

I do not at all believe that Stapp, Tremonti, Philips and Marshall were only in it for the money. I'd be willing to bet that they didn't have as much say in what songs were released as singles as they should have. But, maybe I'm wrong. I just don't believe they were only in it for the money.

And yeah, you're right, not all Rock/Alternative bands suffer the same fate as the ones I mentioned. But most do, with the exception of those you mentioned. I guess I should have clarified that.

And, believe me, I don't hate you on here. You seem to be a pretty smart music fan, and I appreciate the honesty. I don't agree with all that you've said, but I do agree with some of it.

I want to clarify something. I definitely don't think they got into the music business for the money. In all cases except for Stapp, that is pretty much proven by AB (if they Tremonti and Co. had wanted money, Creed would have been the way to go, not AB). I don't even think STAPP was in it for the money, and coming from me that measn something.

I think they were pushed, pressured and prodded into putting out WAWO etc. as singles, just as AB was obviously pushed into putting OYE as a single. Creed DID however have a much mroe mainstream sell music mentality. I mean, Human Clay had every single song ready for radio EVERY ONE. That isn't Wind-up's fault (although most stuff is, lol), that is just what they came up with. I am really perplexed by HC because it seems so un-Tremonti like. It has very little musically advanced stuff in it, mostly just catchy melodic hooks and lame solos.

Really, Human Clay is what killed their credibility: they had just come off an album that most agreed was a good starting point, but instead of progressing they went all out in favor of selling singles, or at least, that's the way it came across. Pretty much ,after that album, NOTHING was gonna change their image. That's why first and second impressions are so important, and its also the reason I am so dissapoitned by Broken Wings being released as a single.

And one could debate all day about whether or not their single sound alike, but the truth is, most people think they do. Even my sister, a die-hard Creed worshipper if there ever was one, thinks their singles sound alike. That certainly isn't condemning, but it always hurts.

And just as a note, Evanescence (or however you spell that friggin name!) was pretty much hated from the beginning, because of their sell-singles attitude. It really isn't dependant so much upon getting big as HOW you get big. At least, that's what I have experienced in my interaction with music fans who don't just bow down to the mainstream. Being mainstream, being catchy, being radiofriendly, that's all fine, you just better be that way because you ARE, not because you are trying to get $$$. And while technically it is impossible to judge that a lot of the time, people are rightfully pessimistic about a band who suddenly breaks it big time with a bunch of cruddy singles.