IMPORTANT: Possible Draft to begin in June 2005

[Dogstar]

Quote: (Originally Posted by whitebird)

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" It seems that people forget the meaning of these words.

AMEN!

[Torn Signs]

Quote: (Originally Posted by whitebird)

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" It seems that people forget the meaning of these words.

Uh, I know that. I also know that war is NOT killing. It is where those citizens in it are fighting for OUR country to keep the freedom! To I have to KEEP explaining why? You want the independence then continue walking everyday and ignoring what those soldiers are dying for. Let this country turn into this communism. See how a socialism is too. And another thing, when some are drafted, they are those who don't want freedom for others and are too selfish to care about the sacrifice our soldiers give up for this country. And for those who are drafted and die, in a positive note, more are left that support this country. So if it is "thou shalt not kill", then it is also that they aren't being MURDERED! The bible is against murder. Look at it. There are wars in it, it is not against war. Peace out folks!
And remember I contradict myself.
And another thing, if we're going by the Bible. The end times are war and if it keeps breeding itself, good. Then the Bible is right.

[Mulletman]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

- John Stuart Mill

[Bridge of Clay]

Sorry, Torn... but this war has nothing related to "fighting for our country, our freedom" as you say...

It was supposed since the beginning to oust Saddam, to finish the job that dad didn't have the chance. Now it all turned into a big mess, where US don't know what to do because Bush & Staff THOUGHT it would be a lot easier.

Before it all started, I always agreed it was necessary to oust Saddam, but that was bad timing. Besides, the focus should be Osama, Al-Qaeda and North Korea. Iraq would fade by itself.

Now who's paying the bill? You and Iraqi civilians, while Mr. Bush is confortable in his office, where he's safe, planning his re-election.

[Torn Signs]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Bridge of Clay)

Sorry, Torn... but this war has nothing related to "fighting for our country, our freedom" as you say...

It was supposed since the beginning to oust Saddam, to finish the job that dad didn't have the chance. Now it all turned into a big mess, where US don't know what to do because Bush & Staff THOUGHT it would be a lot easier.

Before it all started, I always agreed it was necessary to oust Saddam, but that was bad timing. Besides, the focus should be Osama, Al-Qaeda and North Korea. Iraq would fade by itself.

Now who's paying the bill? You and Iraqi civilians, while Mr. Bush is confortable in his office, where he's safe, planning his re-election.

I agree with Mulletman. AND HOW IS IT NOT FOR FREEDOM! Look at SEptember 11 and ALL THOSE WHO DIED! Thousands! It's not total Bs that it is a redo of daddy's war. But daddy's war wasn't bad either b/c it is trying to STOP the terrorism we are receiving over here. Don't say sorry, Torn, it has nothing to do with freedom, because maybe to me it does. Maybe to those soldiers it does. We would NOT be where we are if we didn't go to Vietnam b/c then the political mess you are mentioning wouldn't be happening. Our screw ups make our history which helps make us better in the future. You couldn't even listen to music for a leisure time in Iraq and now we can. If Bush wasn't the president, more deaths due to terroism would have happened. I highly doubt Gore would have been for the war and the same for Kerry. He went over to Vietnam as a volunteer, fought, and came back to protest it? Isn't that a bit odd? If we go to the discussion of party politics, we go to the discussion of trying to get peace.
As Whitebird said, war=war not peace. Well, we had revolutions in this country, we had the civil rights. That was an at home war. B/s the little prejudice acts or killings ever so often, minorities have freedom HERE! War is necessary, and so is the draft. Freedom fighting over there is happening. Perhaps it is that we live in a republic and on't understand a dictator sort of leadership.
Peace out.
Torn Signs.
(I contradict myself.)

[Bridge of Clay]

This war is feeding terrorism. It gives you more reasons to people to hate your country. The war is everything Bin Laden wanted. the hate for US increases in that region and he can recruit more and more for his service.

Besides, as far as I know, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. People said it had but no evidence was found. Nor the so called mass destruction weapons.

The WAY it has been done was wrong since the beginnig.

[whitebird]

There are some in this world, who are born with love, peace and an understanding of the basics between God, man and nature.

We feel a balance and harmony, that seems lost on others. Don't tell me I don't understand, perhaps I understand better that you will ever be able to comprehend. I have seen much in my lifetime, and learned from both wonderful experiences and horrible. I make a choice, not always easy, to follow the ways that I have known to be true.

"War is not killing", rationalize that one to someone else! Your words, are why hate, war and prejudice persist in this world.

Angry words from an angry person.

"What If" you could feel what I feel? Would you still chose your way of anger, and hatred?

[Higher_Desire]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Torn Signs)

Uh, I know that. I also know that war is NOT killing. It is where those citizens in it are fighting for OUR country to keep the freedom! To I have to KEEP explaining why? You want the independence then continue walking everyday and ignoring what those soldiers are dying for. Let this country turn into this communism. See how a socialism is too. And another thing, when some are drafted, they are those who don't want freedom for others and are too selfish to care about the sacrifice our soldiers give up for this country. And for those who are drafted and die, in a positive note, more are left that support this country. So if it is "thou shalt not kill", then it is also that they aren't being MURDERED! The bible is against murder. Look at it. There are wars in it, it is not against war. Peace out folks!
And remember I contradict myself.
And another thing, if we're going by the Bible. The end times are war and if it keeps breeding itself, good. Then the Bible is right.

So let me get this straight: by what you are saying, it would seem that if you were in a country that was bombed, and your family died in the explosion, you would not say that they were killed? Or, if in a war, you shoot someone, you did not kill them?


H-D

[JulieCitySlicker]

Quote: (Originally Posted by BearFan)

so does that mean women over the age of 18 now must sign up for selective service as well? because that would definitely be nice. you also answered my question about using college as an excuse.
and i wouldn't mind seeing it overturned, but if it goes through, and i end up getting drafted, i'll finish out my semester at school, and join the military. my only fear would be of being severely wounded, but still living. somehow, the idea of not living as i did before, fully functioning, doesn't appeal to me. we'll see what happens.

If thats the case then I wouldn't be eligible to do it, cuz I'm half blind

[Torn Signs]

The war is not a mess. It's actually going quite well. More soldiers died in one day practicing for D-Day in WWII then have actually died in battle in Iraq. The so called "mess" is just the way liberals and the liberal media are portraying it. Sadaam was known to back the terrorism. He was known and openly paid families to suicide bomb and kill ppl in Jerusalem. Further more, if you read the bible, you will know that the Jews will never live in peace in Israel because they failed to protect the Holy Land as they were instructed by God several centuries ago. We lost more people on 9/11 then in both the Iraq and Afgahn wars. In addition terrorists are doing there things in Saudia Arabia. They're going to keep on with things just like Madrid and so on until we have defeated them everywhere. When you have people like Alquaeda and the Palestinians who are determined to kill others in the world, the only way to every achieve peace is by victory. The important thing is there is a very big difference in self defense which are the wars we have been fighting are and murder. The bombing of civilians, women, and children, IS MURDER, NOT KILLING! Ok. Bombings were MURDER! September 11 WAS MURDER! The first attempt at the World Trade center would have lead to MURDER! Nick Berg's beheading was MURDER and Alqueda in Iraq have taken credit for it. That's PROOF that the USA and Iraq are fighting THE war on terror. Whether or not you like it, terrorism is a world wide war and this idle thought of the United Nations and peace saving us all is pure bologna.
If you are stating that I am wrong, then MAYBE just MAYBE you have tried to point out that I have contradicted myself. And I STATED that it is possible. Like you Whitebird, I am only human. I make mistakes. But in answer to Higher Desire's question, the bombing of my family is not murder. Yes, it is killing. And to kill another soldier is not murder, it is killing. Try to understand what I mean by murder and killing. Murder is the unrightful death of a soul who should have lived longer. Killing is getting rid of someone who has sinned on this world. And by all means, WE ARE NOT JESUS, and have all sinned. Go ahead, loop d' loop by words against me like liberals. I don't care. I ain't standin' down. And I still follow God too, don't say I haven't been through crap or that I don't understand it. For only I am the one who knows everything I have been through. Thank God this world does not have mind readers.
Peace out ya all,
Torn Signs.
Remember I contradict myself.

[whitebird]

When I was young, and the Vietnam war was taking place, I was looking for my first job.

I had a conversation with a young man that told me the armes plant in our area was hiring. He said they were looking for people who would work on an assembly line to make land mines.

He said the pay was great, and if I didn't consider it, and took a job a min. wage, I was stupid.

I looked at this young man, knowing there was knowledge within myself, that I would never be able to explain to him. His brain, compassion, and spiritual knowledge did not reach the level of my own.

To this day, there are people that are blown apart by those land mines planted during those horrible times.

If I had decided to take money for constructing those vile tools, I would have damaged my own spirit. That, I understood in my young years.

Recently, I watched on national TV, a young woman who was in the current war, video taping from a prison camp. She expressed to the people watching the video, that she hated it there, and only wanted to receive a college education, which was funded by the government. She did not want to be there anymore, and her hatred for the situation was growing.

Her price for doing what she was doing, was the price of an education.

Does she not then consider herself bought?

If anyone, or a country benefits, from the distruction, or the deaths of others, does this not mean you have sold your self for personal greed or profit?

Freedom has many faces, look to your soul to understand the depth of truth.

[Dogstar]

Quote:

I looked at this young man, knowing there was knowledge within myself, that I would never be able to explain to him.

I so understand what you are saying. I have words in me that I know others will never understand. Right now, I'm speechless, which is unusual for me.

[Torn Signs]

Quote: (Originally Posted by whitebird)

When I was young, and the Vietnam war was taking place, I was looking for my first job.

I had a conversation with a young man that told me the armes plant in our area was hiring. He said they were looking for people who would work on an assembly line to make land mines.

He said the pay was great, and if I didn't consider it, and took a job a min. wage, I was stupid.

I looked at this young man, knowing there was knowledge within myself, that I would never be able to explain to him. His brain, compassion, and spiritual knowledge did not reach the level of my own.

To this day, there are people that are blown apart by those land mines planted during those horrible times.

If I had decided to take money for constructing those vile tools, I would have damaged my own spirit. That, I understood in my young years.

Recently, I watched on national TV, a young woman who was in the current war, video taping from a prison camp. She expressed to the people watching the video, that she hated it there, and only wanted to receive a college education, which was funded by the government. She did not want to be there anymore, and her hatred for the situation was growing.

Her price for doing what she was doing, was the price of an education.

Does she not then consider herself bought?

If anyone, or a country benefits, from the distruction, or the deaths of others, does this not mean you have sold your self for personal greed or profit?

Freedom has many faces, look to your soul to understand the depth of truth.

I'm glad that you have the choice that you made the choice to not make those land mines. There is something else you aught to know. Land mines have been used on the DMZ between North and South Korea for the last 50 years to prevent the North from reinvading the South. The Korean war has never ended, there simply has been a cease fire. The land mines are helping that cease fire stay in place. I don't want to argue with those who don't want to fight or to make weapons. As a free country we allow that. You were allowed that.
But here's another thought. By saying that your mind was ahead of that individual who made those mines you are implying that he/she was the stupid one. You are saying you are above them. That goes into your selfish greed compartment. Aren't you being selfish when you are stating that you are better than that individual? EVERYONE is a bit selfish. That's part of being human. And we are not selling are souls by getting profit from the Iraqi war because it was that certain individual who chose to join the military to get those college benefits in the same way. That was her selfishness to try and use something the government offers to find a high paying job in this now screwed up society. She may have sold her soul as you said, but it wasn't when she got over there. It was when she thought that using the military to get a lot of money would help her butt. Yes, she was bought. Bought by everyone else in society's views of what money and wealth offers.
I take it, and don't yell at me if I'm wrong, that you are a Christian for your "Though shalt not kill" quote. If you are then maybe you should also understand as a Christian that Jesus said that he will provide us with everything we need to survive. That includes money, food, shelter, etc. And yes her price for doing what she was doing was education. Again, society. Society needs everyone to be brainiacs to get that cash and to be someone. You can't blame the war for taking away her benefits. Perhaps who you can blame is yourself or everyone else who falls under the needles of Satan and doesn't realize what God offers us.
What Gods intentions are, can be mysterious if the Bible isn't read. But we are to support and love life. The War in Iraq has that. The casualties help bring the freedom for those civilians who are still alive in the country. You need examples for what the Iraq war has accomplished, here:
1. North Korea-Threatened against neighbors and threatening with nuclear weapons has now come to its senses and the peace table since we started the war in Iraq.
2. Libya- Decided to turn a new "leaf' and has given up its weapons of mass destruction, nuclear programs since the war began.
3. Just this past week, one of the terrorist masterminds behind 9/11 was captured in Britain. He attended terrorist training with Massowi (who's on trial here and was caught in Minneapolis while trying to learn to fly airplanes). He also went through terrorist training with Reid. Reid was captured w/ the shoe bombs on the aircraft.
4. The Packistanis and India are now making peace agreements.
5. The Packistanis have now joined us in the war on terror.
We are actually making great progress in the war and as far as I am concerned, God is making great progress in letting his prophecies be true. If peace and this One world Government comes due to everyone wanting a Utopia, the end times are near.
Enough said until next time. Remember I contradict myself. Peace out everyone,
Torn Signs.

[whitebird]

Thanks Dogstar, I have always had great respect for you. From the first time I started posting here, I have valued the truth, compassion and depths of your words.

[whitebird]

Torn Signs, you can twist your words any way you want. The truth stands!

I have chosen my path, with help from beyond.

What path have you chosen?