gays in religion

[whitebird]

Sincirr, I think that you are right, that people learn compassion through interacting with others different than themselves. Thank you for your story about your journey to God and to understanding others.

Please notice in you words however, that you refer to yourself as Christian, and Gay people as non Christian.

I myself am Christian too, I simply hold different views than some on this board.

Peace

[Sincirr]

Thanks for your patience. The guy I refered to as a non christian was one guy in particular, but since he was prayin with us, perhaps that was not the case, sorry bout that.

[Jester]

ok here is my
(Preacher kid talking here) I am a Christian and I have found in my life that it is possible to be "gay" and still be a christian being "gay" is not a sin however acting on thoes feelings would be.


Christ has told us to go to people in love, so it absolutly pisses me off when you got people on the 5 o'clock news claiming to be christian holding up signs in the background reading "FAGS GO TO HELL" or "GOD HATES FAGS" that is not a loving message and this is not how I want my beliefs represented that is why I am not always up front about my Christianity because it carries a negitive sigma with it I feel it is better to let people get to know me before I start in on religion.

thanx for listening

[whitebird]

Ah, breezes of compassion are blowing in like a soft wind.

[Sincirr]

hehe.

Welcome, Jester.

[Dogstar]

Quote:

I spent a great deal of time today speaking with someone who is gay. Someone who I love and respect, and who I also except. Listening to them speak about the difficulties of their lives because of the prejudice of judgemental persons in our society is heartbreaking to me.

Me, too, whitebird. One of my best friends is gay and I'll tell you right now that I don't know what I would do without him. I feel so bad for him because he feels he can't live the way he wants to because of the societal discrimination against gay people. And I know there is all this *debate* about whether gay people choose to be gay or are born that way. I can't imagine someone willingly choosing to be gay in the judgmental, hateful climate in which we live, so I believe people are born with their sexual orientation. And it simply shouldn't matter. They are no less human beings than heterosexual people are. This whole us vs. them thing is ridiculous. We still haven't even progressed far enough in the race issue, either. It sickens me to think people still judge people on the basis of race or creed. Aren't we all God's children? That's the way I understand it.

[whitebird]

Quote: (Originally Posted by souldancer)

(speechless...I start to write and words fly out..I erase, re-write, and then I start to feel hate inside from this thread, and I don't like that. So, I start to leave without saying anything (appreciating Dogstar's words and a few others though) and feel that is wrong too.
So, here is a question. What if you find out you have a gay child or relative. Will you still love them?
I believe we each need to stand up for our fellow beings, stand up against hatred and for compassion. I don't need a book or a verse to tell me what is right or wrong/good or bad. I can feel it in my heart - there is an inner Knowing if we get fear out of the way and reach deep enough for Truth.

From souldancer's post to here, I can see compassion. I give her great credit for getting this positive direction going. Thank you so very much souldancer, you are a diplomat for peace and compassion.

Thanks Dogstar, people who condemn others don't just hurt the people that they attack, they hurt everyone that is associated with that person, like you and me. The circle of pain and anguish extend so far, that it doubles back to the original person doing the hurt, and they may not even recognise where it is comming from by the time it goes full circle. Some call it Karma, whatever you call it, it is a resulting effect of how we live our lives and the way we treat others. Maybe our posts have made a little difference in the way people might see how deeply their words can wound? I think your friend is a lucky person to have you in his life.

[Dogstar]

Thank you, whitebird. I feel as if I'm the lucky one to have him in my life . And you are right, the endless hurt is mind-boggling and so overwhelming to me sometimes. I get so down thinking about it. I sure hope our posts at least let people know that life is far from black and white. There are never any easy answers, not if you look at an issue thoroughly.

[whitebird]

A question for WeatheredWoman. How does the Netherlands differ in regard to acceptance of others different then themselves? Many people on this thread are from the U.S.A., and I feel that often I am limited in learning about other cultures. I know that may seem like an huge question, but if you share just a little, I would appreciate it.

[WeatheredWoman]

Quote: (Originally Posted by whitebird)

A question for WeatheredWoman. How does the Netherlands differ in regard to acceptance of others different then themselves? Many people on this thread are from the U.S.A., and I feel that often I am limited in learning about other cultures. I know that may seem like an huge question, but if you share just a little, I would appreciate it.

Ok I will try to tell a little bit... hope I spell everything correct and my grammar isn't sometimes all that!

The Netherlands was in my opinion a very tolerant land and still is in many ways...

According to gay people... Amsterdam is Gay City over here. We've got every year a Gay Parade and a Gay Pride through the waters of Amsterdam. Gay couples can get married over here, that's legal. I have some gay friends too just like some of you.

Prostitution is legalized. So prostitutes do pay taxes as well.
Abortion is legalized.
Marihuana/weed is legal at a certain level, therefore the many "coffeeshops" in Amsterdam... a user may have a little amount of drugs in his possession for own use. You may have a maximum of 5 marihuana plants in your own home. Alcohol is legalized for kids from 16 and up.
But according to driving a car we're allowed to drive a car on the age of 18 and that's 16 in your country.

So far what still is very tolerated in this small country with about 15 a 16 million people.

Most people over here like to compare the Netherlands today with the U.S. of A. 10 years ago. We were never familiar with safety at schools... like gun-control that sounded so crazy to us 2 years ago but now we have it too.

Holland is multi-cultural actually! Especially Amsterdam... we've got Turks, Marocs and people from the Netherland Antilles (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao) livin' here. But we can feel right now in the community that there are many cultural and religious differences. It was a very relaxed country but by mixing with the people I've mentioned before... the problems began. Marocs and Turks have got some kind of revange-out-of-honor in their culture that gives them a certain right to commit a murder in case of "family-problems".

Now I must speak on behalf of myself mostly, but in my opinion their culture lies about a hundred years behind ours and that can't be mixed. They have so many problems integrating in our country. The men out of these countries are used to very humble women, so they keep their women in their houses and stuff. That's weird in a very emancipated country as Holland.

About two weeks ago a teacher was shot through the head by a turkish boy, marocs and turks stabbing people, shootings, slaughtering of goats, sheeps on their balcony or in their backyard etc.... Dutch people were not familiar with that sort of violence. So now we're dealing with these kind of problems... and I can feel that people are gettin' a certain hatred against those people. But that is a feeling that grows slowly but resistant. That's because our government has denied these problems at first and now it's getting a huge problem. They are actually breeding racism that way... I'm a bit concerned 'bout the future in that particular case. The people are beginning to refer to "future" city-names like Amsterdam is going to be Islamsterdam, Amersfoort is going to be named Imamersfoort... ok they're makin' fun about it right now but it's a serious problem.

We are gettin' also ghetto's over here... never had! The difference between poor and rich is getting bigger and bigger.

Further on Dutch people are very down to earth, not over-dramaticly... when someone acts a bit over the top we like to say : hey don't be so american LOL!! I think we're called greedy too... But hey this is all generalization! Every person is unique.

According to acceptance it's mostly in the big(ger) cities where everyone will be accepted the way he/she is... in the smaller cities it's lesser. But in my opinion that's equal in America or wherever you may go...

And we're living in a relative small country with so many people. The lesser space people get the more aggresive they get... things will get on your nerves much easier.

The acceptance is growing low, going downhill.

I hope that this answer your question a little bit whitebird.

[WeatheredWoman]

You know what makes a big difference too?? The experiences one had in life. I've met so many people in my life! from pimps to yellow to white... from prostitutes to businessmen to drugsdealers... from children to men to women... each with their own lifestory! Each with their own feelings... and that's what counts. Inside we're feeling all sort of the same... we all want peace, love! No matter what we look like on the outside. But people do judge the book by it's cover... even I do, even you do although we rather don't.

Mostly you can relate peoples averses to fear... fear for the unknown, i think it's a natural defense. What you don't know, can kill you... (a saying if I'm correct)

[whitebird]

WeatheredWoman, thank you so much for telling us about your culture. You covered a great amount of facts, and my knowledge has increased due to your kindness.

There are many wonderful things about the U.S.A. The beauty of the land in our country is so varied. It is like being in many different countries, from coast to coast. People vary as much as the land, with many accents and languages, and skin tones form a beautiful rainbow with many races.

However some of the cultural difficulties are the same in each of our countries. Many people living together, who have different beliefs, and customs. They call America "The Melting Pot Of The World", meaning all cultures blending together, as though melted as one. It is a wonderful thought, but not entirely reality. Prejudice exists, sometimes to extreme levels

And like your country, the gap between the rich and the poor, seems to be growing, and our elderly are having difficult times getting health care and medicine, because they cannot afford the costs. Even though Americans support many causes outside our country, there are children that go hungry within our own cities. Women with children to care for on their own have become a large percentage of the growing poor.

Laws for large business grow stronger, and the rights of small business, and the individual persons grow weaker. It is happening slowly, but steadily.

I have hope for the future however. I am meeting people like yourself who feel that we can make a difference in this world. Many on this board have learned from each other, myself included. Also, we teach by sharing our personal experiences in life, and you have taught me today.

I must sign off for tonight, but I would like to share more with you later.

Good Night.

[american_bad_a$]

i am not going to read all of these posts, cause a lot of them do not apply to what the topic is. this thread is about being gay and whether or not it is okay to be gay. i submit to you that it is not, and so far, no one has proven me wrong. i have given y'all scriptural proof that being gay is wrong. i can't totally agree with jester, but i understand where he is coming from. being gay is a choice. Why do i think that? cause it is not how or what we were created for. but i understand his point, i just don't agree with it 100%

if i had a gay kid, i wouls still love him - that is not the question. would i be disgusted? absolutely. would i cut him off and not speack to him again until he repented? if he was a christian, yes. that is what we are called to do with people who are in sin like that, and will not repent.

i do not hate gay people. i am judging them for their sin, that i can do. they are sinning and are in sin. i think it is possible to be gay and still be a christian, but that doesn't make it right.

to anyone out there who still wanted to actually debate, convinve me that homosexuality is okay.

[Sincirr]

Well U may cut your child off cos they have come out, but the Lord never leaves U nor forsakes U.

[TeriB19]

Quote: (Originally Posted by american_bad_a$)

i do not hate gay people. i am judging them for their sin, that i can do.

Who died and made you God?? I thought God was the only one that judged us, sorry, my mistake.