Working W/ Goneblind....

[Dogstar]

Quote: (Originally Posted by ctfan)

... and you can say that people were eager for more Creed, and say that that it was a sell-out cd, poppy, radio-friendly, overrated, and that sales don't mean quality, or lasting power, whatever, but dude...that cd was damn good.

And that's your opinion. My sister, a huge Creed/Stapp fan, didn't like it all.

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People liked it man, and you can't dispute that ever.

Yeah, you can. Some people liked it, not everybody.

Quote:

It was big, Creed was big...end of story. Besides, your an admitted Stapp hater, so I don't think you can give a completely unbiased opinion.

I'm not a Stapp hater and I didn't like it as much as the other two. I can't even remember the last time I listened to it. You like it, that's great. There are plenty of people, Stapp haters or not, who thought it was terrible, and they are entitled to their opinions. It's probably good Creed ended when they did because God knows what the fourth album would have been like. I shudder to think.

[uncertaindrumer]

An admitted Stapp hater which means...? I also hate Kirt Cobain. A lot. Dead or not. But I don't think Nirvana will be forgotten as quickly as Creed.

Ever heard of a band called Oasis? Yeah so they came out with an album everyone adored, called What's the Story (Morning Glory)? Then, they came out with another album, Be Here Now. Be Here Now sold more albums than ANY pother Oasis album, because of course, it was the one RIGHT AFTER What's the story. But now if you go to fansites, message boards, whatnot, people hate it. Oasis fans hate it. Everyone hates it. So does the fact that it sold 7 or 8 million records make it good?

NO!

And besides by your guys amazing logic, Eminem is twice as big as Creed, since his album a couple years ago sold 16 million records

[ctfan]

Quote:

Yeah, you can. Some people liked it, not everybody.

And I never said that everybody did. I said people liked it, and that includes me. You can call it a disappointment if you want, that's your opinion, but it was big, it was full of great songs and music. And who knows what the next Creed cd would have been like. It may have sold millions too. My guess is that it would have.

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An admitted Stapp hater which means...?

Which means, I hate the lead singer of a band I didn't particularly like in the first place. And dude trust me....it shows in a big sort of way. You seem to gloat over that fact.

Yep m & m sold 16 million, and he will be remembered for that, regardless of the genre. Just like Creed will be remembered for selling 30 million, and being the biggest rock band of their era.

I never was a fan of Nirvana, and don't know much about Cobain, and don't care to, but I don't hate the man. They will be remembered too.

[Bridge of Clay]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Weathered was horrible. Even most Creed fans admit that.

Weathered was good imo. Actually, maybe it's not lyrically as good as the previous ones and has a wider approach to the audience, but musically I consider it the best Tremonti effort while in Creed: Bullets, FF, OLB (my fav Tremonti melody), MS, SHWM (best solo in Creed), Hide (nice alternate tuning song)... they're all good. WGMB is different and so is Lullaby, I'll leave them out... Signs was weak and DSD, although it's fun to play, is just as bad as WAWO...

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Bridge of Clay)

Weathered was good imo. Actually, maybe it's not lyrically as good as the previous ones and has a wider approach to the audience, but musically I consider it the best Tremonti effort while in Creed: Bullets, FF, OLB (my fav Tremonti melody), MS, SHWM (best solo in Creed), Hide (nice alternate tuning song)... they're all good. WGMB is different and so is Lullaby, I'll leave them out... Signs was weak and DSD, although it's fun to play, is just as bad as WAWO...

This is why I said "most". I know a couple of you guys actually like it. lol. Dying breed, though. lol, jk.

And, ctfan, you think the fact that I don't really like Stapp matters? I think the guy is quite possibly the dumbest person ever to walk the Earth, but if he had good music I would laugh about it, and make fun of him for it, but still respect him as a musician. For instance, Bono, I don't like very much at all. I think he is pretentious, ridiculously egotistical, etc. etc. Not as bad as Stapp but I don't particularly like him or any members of U2. But their music stands for itself.

Stapp's doesn't. You like it. Fine. People like LOTS of nonsense. But the masses don't decide good music. And 30 millions albums or 30 albums means absolutely nothing.

[Bridge of Clay]

well... I'm just pointing that are reasons to like Weathered. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion and it's fine by me.

Anyway... I'm still in the dark on why people *hate* it. If people disliked it for being radio friendly and commercial, fine... but it goes beyond, people do hate it.

I don't if they created higher expectations on it or thought it was something totally different... it bugs me...

[Steve]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Stapp's doesn't. You like it. Fine. People like LOTS of nonsense. But the masses don't decide good music. And 30 millions albums or 30 albums means absolutely nothing.

Aside from whether you like Stapp or not, this is a great point. Unfortunately, album sales equals success in the business world, but it doesn't necessarily mean success in the quality of music. The liking of music is judgemental. I completely detest rap music, but there's millions who love it and but the rap albums. Just because I don't like rap music doesn't mean rap is a bad form of music. I don't think anyone here has been insinuating that their opinions form everyone elses, but the main point is that just because 30 million people bought an album doesn't mean the album is good.

I think in a more general sense, it means one song was good - the one song got overplayed on the radio and everyone bought the album. Keep in mind, there's lots of casual music fans who run out and purchase albums because they heard a song on the radio. I think most people here aren't like that, but the do exist.

One of my favorite bands (as Marcos knows I believe) is an unsigned local band Spirit Creek. Their music is just great IMO and they have sold maybe 200 albums online and whatever they sold at shows they've played. In my mind, they are better then some of the top selling rock acts on the charts right now, but their album sales don't show that.

[uncertaindrumer]

^indeed.

Selling lots of albums means you had a catchy song everyone liked. It doesn't mean you had talent.

[Ana4Stapp]

Bono egoistical ?

See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bono

In 1985, Bono appeared in the original Band Aid and then reprised his role in the 2005 Band Aid 20. Since 1999, he has become increasingly involved in campaigning for third-world debt relief and the plight of Africa. In May 2002, he took US Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill on a four-country tour of Africa. Also that year, Bono set up an organization called "DATA", which stands for Debt, Aids, Trade in Africa. The focus of the organization is to raise awareness about what he claims are Africa's unpayable debts, uncontrolled spread of AIDS, and unfair trade rules that hurt the countries' poor citizens.

He also made a speech during the inauguration of Paul Martin as Canada's prime minister, who in turn pledged to help with the global crisis. In 2005, in a time that some claimed Martin was facing "political destruction", Bono spoke on CBC Radio "bashing" Martin for being slow at increasing Canada's foreign aid. Following this a spokesperson for the Prime Minister pointed out that the budget has seen an 8% increase to aid and that "Rather than set an artificial deadline, the prime minister has focused on real increases measured in real dollars each and every year."

While on his mission to highlight Africa's AIDS crisis, Bono travelled to the White House for a special private meeting with President George W. Bush, who had just unveiled a $5 billion aid package for the world's poorest countries that respect human rights. Bono also accompanied the President for a speech on the White House lawn. "This is an important first step, and a serious and impressive new level of commitment... This must happen urgently, because this is a crisis," Bono said:

"It is much easier and hipper for me to be on the barricades with a handkerchief over my nose — it looks better on the résumé of a rock 'n' roll star. But I can do better by just getting into the White House and talking to a man who I believe listens, wants to listen, on these subjects."
Along with Bob Geldof, Bono has come under fire from radical journalist George Monbiot for getting too close to those in power, and therefore running the risk of legitimising their actions. Monbiot dubbed the pair "Bards of the Powerful" in his The Guardian article in June 2005.

In July 2005, Bono played a fundamental role in the effort to organize and publicize Live 8, a series of 10 concerts around the globe aimed at encouraging the representatives of the world's industrialized countries at the Group of Eight Summit to write off Africa's enormous debt, reform trade policy, and grant a great deal more aid for crises such as the AIDS epidemics.


oh yeah maybe above we have examples of acting in an egoistical manner... like someone said

[sina2b]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Bono egoistical ?

...
oh yeah maybe above we have examples of acting in an egoistical manner... like someone said

I think hes egoistical too, theres no reason for people who help others to brag about their charity work unless other intensions are envolved. They should have had BONO help Sean Penn in changing and deciding whats best for the world in (team america).

[Ana4Stapp]

C'mon- hes a public person and hes clearly (at least) making a good use of his image...and I think its better showing his actions in 'charities' to the world than assuming a stupid rock-star pose of "f**** the world -Im the best'

[sina2b]

yes its certainly good, but BONO is too much, he puts too much effort into publicizng it and that makes it fake.

[Steve]

I agree. He was in an interview I saw once and he was almost trying to make people feel guilty for not contributing to the aid relief in Africa. It was almost like if you weren't doing what he was doing, then you aren't helping.

He comes off as "I'm better than you because I've done so much for this world" and I don't like that very much. Not everyone has the means he does. It's a bit of a turnoff.

[Creed7352]

i think he's thinking that people will react in this way and start helping out to prove him wrong, that we can help too.

but i agree...it's quite annoying that he advertises it everywhere.

[Ana4Stapp]

^
This is the point! I mean, acting this way hes at least giving a good example specially for the young fans U2 has. And maybe he says too much about his socials activities, making it public, all right... but this is completely different from assuming an 'egoistical' position.