Health Reform . Gov - Facts vs Fiction

[creedsoul~]

http://www.healthreform.gov/

http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/

I don't expect everyone to agree nor approve of everything trying to be accomplished. But at least get your information from a reputable source.

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by creedsoul~)

http://www.healthreform.gov/

http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/

I don't expect everyone to agree nor approve of everything trying to be accomplished. But at least get your information from a reputable source.

We're supposed to believe the very administration on an unconstitutional power grab is the source for honest information?

You must be one of Obama's liars.

[creedsoul~]

Quote: (Originally Posted by eusebioCBR)

We're supposed to believe the very administration on an unconstitutional power grab is the source for honest information?

You must be one of Obama's liars.

Do you know how many news organizations and fact finders there are watching these websites everyday to make sure they are supplying factual information? I'll tell you, thousands of people..... I will take my chances with them over any lobbyist. All I am asking is that you research your facts. But as I said in the previous post, best of luck to you.

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by creedsoul~)

Do you know how many news organizations and fact finders there are watching these websites everyday to make sure they are supplying factual information? I'll tell you, thousands of people..... I will take my chances with them over any lobbyist. All I am asking is that you research your facts. But as I said in the previous post, best of luck to you.

You are in favor of expanding the federal government and giving it more control over Americans. I am not. It's that simple and fortunately at this time a majority of Americans agree with me.
I think it's very arrogant to declare yourself and your chosen sources for information as the final word of truth. But then again like most liberals you think you know what's best for everyone.

[creedsoul~]

Quote: (Originally Posted by eusebioCBR)

You are in favor of expanding the federal government and giving it more control over Americans. I am not. It's that simple and fortunately at this time a majority of Americans agree with me.
I think it's very arrogant to declare yourself and your chosen sources for information as the final word of truth. But then again like most liberals you think you know what's best for everyone.

Your inferences are very... astute..

But that's alright.. I agree the majority of Americans are seeing right through the BS, thankfully.

[eusebioCBR]

I agree the majority of Americans are seeing right through the BS, thankfully.

[/quote]

Democrats hold the majority in both houses but won't vote this through because they know public opinion is not on their side. You should try and look for information outside of Whitehouse.gov, Moveon.org or NPR.

[nagpo]

You know...Government expands whenever there is a new administration in place. For example, after 9/11 Bush created the Patriot Act. Which expanded government power by letting them basically look over your shoulder 24/7.

Now Obama want's to expand the government by making health care available for everyone. I think it's ironic that the people that once supported Bush and the patriot act are now against Obama and his health care 'reform'.

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by nagpo)

You know...Government expands whenever there is a new administration in place. For example, after 9/11 Bush created the Patriot Act. Which expanded government power by letting them basically look over your shoulder 24/7.

Now Obama want's to expand the government by making health care available for everyone. I think it's ironic that the people that once supported Bush and the patriot act are now against Obama and his health care 'reform'.

It's even more ironic when people complain about President Bush's administration monitoring suspicious international communications but forget about Bill Clintons domestic spy program called Echelon that started in the 90's.

60 Minutes reporting on operation Echelon created by the Clinton administration -
'If you made a phone call today or sent an e—mail to a friend, there's a good chance what you said or wrote was captured and screened by the country's largest intelligence agency.' (Steve Kroft, CBS' 60 Minutes)

[nagpo]

Proved my point.

[eusebioCBR]

Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
-Thomas Paine

[creedsoul~]

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

~ Winston Churchill

[eusebioCBR]

The United States is a constitutional republic.

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by creedsoul~)

Your inferences are very... astute..

But that's alright.. I agree the majority of Americans are seeing right through the BS, thankfully.

Rasmussen Reports
September 10, 2009

"Views of the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats remain largely unchanged since late July. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey conducted Tuesday and Wednesday nights finds that 44% favor the plan while 53% are opposed. These numbers are little different than those in late August."

[eusebioCBR]

FACT CHECK: Obama uses iffy math on deficit pledge
By CALVIN WOODWARD and ERICA WERNER (AP)
Sept 10 2009

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama used only-in-Washington accounting Wednesday when he promised to overhaul the nation's health care system without adding "one dime" to the deficit. By conventional arithmetic, Democratic plans would drive up the deficit by billions of dollars.
The president's speech to Congress contained a variety of oversimplifications and omissions in laying out what he wants to do about health insurance.
A look at some of Obama's claims and how they square with the facts or the fuller story:
___
OBAMA: "I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits either now or in the future. Period."

THE FACTS: Though there's no final plan yet, the White House and congressional Democrats already have shown they're ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.
House Democrats offered a bill that the Congressional Budget Office said would add $220 billion to the deficit over 10 years. But Democrats and Obama administration officials claimed the bill actually was deficit-neutral. They said they simply didn't have to count $245 billion of it — the cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don't face big annual pay cuts.
___

OBAMA: "Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have."

THE FACTS: That's correct, as far as it goes. But neither can the plan guarantee that people can keep their current coverage. Employers sponsor coverage for most families, and they'd be free to change their health plans in ways that workers may not like, or drop insurance altogether. The Congressional Budget Office analyzed the health care bill written by House Democrats and said that by 2016 some 3 million people who now have employer-based care would lose it because their employers would decide to stop offering it.

In the past Obama repeatedly said, "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period." Now he's stopping short of that unconditional guarantee by saying nothing in the plan "requires" any change.
______

OBAMA: "Don't pay attention to those scary stories about how your benefits will be cut. ... That will never happen on my watch. I will protect Medicare."

THE FACTS: Obama and congressional Democrats want to pay for their health care plans in part by reducing Medicare payments to providers by more than $500 billion over 10 years. The cuts would largely hit hospitals and Medicare Advantage, the part of the Medicare program operated through private insurance companies.

Although wasteful spending in Medicare is widely acknowledged, many experts believe some seniors almost certainly would see reduced benefits from the cuts. That's particularly true for the 25 percent of Medicare users covered through Medicare Advantage.

Supporters contend that providers could absorb the cuts by improving how they operate and wouldn't have to reduce benefits or pass along costs. But there's certainly no guarantee they wouldn't.

___

OBAMA: Requiring insurance companies to cover preventive care like mammograms and colonoscopies "makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives."

THE FACTS: Studies have shown that much preventive care — particularly tests like the ones Obama mentions — actually costs money instead of saving it. That's because detecting acute diseases like breast cancer in their early stages involves testing many people who would never end up developing the disease. The costs of a large number of tests, even if they're relatively cheap, will outweigh the costs of caring for the minority of people who would have ended up getting sick without the testing.

The Congressional Budget Office wrote in August: "The evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall."

That doesn't mean preventive care doesn't make sense or save lives. It just doesn't save money.

___

OBAMA: "If you lose your job or change your job, you will be able to get coverage. If you strike out on your own and start a small business, you will be able to get coverage."

THE FACTS: It's not just a matter of being able to get coverage. Most people would have to get coverage under the law, if his plan is adopted.

In his speech, Obama endorsed mandatory coverage for individuals, an approach he did not embrace as a candidate.

He proposed during the campaign — as he does now — that larger businesses be required to offer insurance to workers or else pay into a fund. But he rejected the idea of requiring individuals to obtain insurance. He said people would get insurance without being forced to do so by the law, if coverage were made affordable. And he repeatedly criticized his Democratic primary rival, Hillary Rodham Clinton, for proposing to mandate coverage.

"To force people to get health insurance, you've got to have a very harsh penalty," he said in a February 2008 debate.

Now, he says, "individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance — just as most states require you to carry auto insurance."

He proposes a hardship waiver, exempting from the requirement those who cannot afford coverage despite increased federal aid.

___

OBAMA: "There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage."

THE FACTS: Obama time and again has referred to the number of uninsured as 46 million, a figure based on year-old Census data. The new number is based on an analysis by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured, which concluded that about two-thirds of Americans without insurance are poor or near poor. "These individuals are less likely to be offered employer-sponsored coverage or to be able to afford to purchase their own coverage," the report said. By using the new figure, Obama avoids criticism that he is including individuals, particularly healthy young people, who choose not to obtain health insurance.