Bush admits the CIA runs secret prisons

[RalphyS]

President Bush on Wednesday acknowledged for the first time that the CIA runs secret prisons overseas and said tough interrogation forced terrorist leaders to reveal plots to attack the United States and its allies.

President Bush has acknowledged the existence of secret CIA prisons and said 14 key terrorist suspects have now been sent to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
The suspects, who include the alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, have now been moved out of CIA custody and will face trial.

Mr Bush said the prisons were a vital tool in the war on terror and that intelligence gathered had saved lives.

He added that the CIA treated detainees humanely and did not use torture.

He said all suspects would be afforded protection under the Geneva Convention.

In a televised address alongside families of those killed in the 11 September 2001 attacks, Mr Bush said there were now no terrorist suspects under the CIA programme.

Mr Bush said he was making a limited disclosure of the CIA programme because interrogation of the men it held was now complete and because a US Supreme Court decision had stopped the use of military commissions for trials.

He said the CIA programme had interrogated a small number of key figures suspected of involvement in 9/11, the attack on the USS Cole in 2000 in Yemen and the 1998 attacks on US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

Mr Bush spelled out how the questioning of detainee Abu Zubaydah had led to the capture of Ramzi Binalshibh, which in turn led to the detention of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

Mr Bush said the CIA had used an "alternative set of procedures", agreed with the justice department, once suspects had stopped talking.

But he said: "The US does not torture. I have not authorised it and I will not."

He said the questioning methods had prevented attacks inside the US and saved US lives.

"This programme has helped us to take potential mass murderers off the streets before they have a chance to kill," the president said.

The CIA programme had caused some friction with European allies. Some EU lawmakers said the CIA carried out clandestine flights to transport terror suspects.

Dick Marty, who investigated the issue of secret CIA prisons for the Council of Europe, said it was now up to European governments to reveal what they know about secret CIA prisons in Europe.


Revised guidelines

Mr Bush said he was asking Congress to authorise military commissions and once that was done "the men our intelligence officials believe orchestrated the deaths of nearly 3,000 Americans on September 11 2001 can face justice".

All suspects will now be treated under new guidelines issued by the Pentagon on Wednesday, which bring all military detainees under the protection of the Geneva Convention.

The move marks a reversal in policy for the Pentagon, which previously argued that many detainees were unlawful combatants who did not qualify for such protections.

The new guidelines forbid all torture, the use of dogs to intimidate prisoners, water boarding - the practice of submerging prisoners in water - any kind of sexual humiliation, and many other interrogation techniques.

The BBC's Adam Brookes in Washington says that in one stroke the Pentagon is moving to defuse all criticism of the way it treats the people it has captured in its war against terrorism.

The US administration has faced criticism from legal experts and human rights activists over the policy on detentions of terrorism suspects.

Mr Bush also said he was asking Congress to pass urgent legislation to clarify the terms under which those fighting the war on terror could operate.

He said the laws must make it explicit that US personnel were fulfilling their obligations under the Geneva Convention.

Mr Bush said those questioning suspected terrorists must be able to use everything under the law to save US lives.

[RalphyS]

Why is it, that everytime Dubya is admitting a previous lie and/or admitting he was wrong about something, it sounds like the solution of a problem?

[Lunar Shadow]

my first impression when I saw the speach was "This is news" Not shit this was happening peopel have been talking about it for about a year or more now.

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

Why is it, that everytime Dubya is admitting a previous lie and/or admitting he was wrong about something, it sounds like the solution of a problem?

... and you're upset that terror masterminds are being held in undisclosed locations because...?

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

... and you're upset that terror masterminds are being held in undisclosed locations because...?

the problem is that it is a double edged sword here hold suspected terrorists before they commit an act of terror and be acused of war crimes and such

but ignore it and run the risk of an other attack either way get critisized.

but I am a wee bit skeptical when just about every week they are saying that they have thwarted yet another terrorist attack

[metalchris25]

Bazooka Joe is much better than spearmint. imo.

J/K guys. I only had a minute, so I thought I would make good use of it....

[Lunar Shadow]

^^ Lol

[Steve]

Maybe I'm a bit of an extremist when it comes to dealing with these terrorists, but I don't get these people who call out Bush for having these secret prisions. Why should we stick these evil people into Guantanmo Bay and put them through a legal trial? I understand it can bring closure in terms of punishing these people but they don't deserve humane treatment. These terrorists don't follow the "rules of war" - instead they purposely hurt innocent civilians and hide within the civilian population.

[RalphyS]

So I guess, we can throw the whole 'presumed innocence'-premise out of the window. So what the hell are we fighting terrorism for, if we throw overboard the basic principles of our 'free' western society ourselves. Sure it would be easy to fight fire with fire, but we gain nothing by acting like the criminals we are fighting against. I know it is harder, because we (the good guys) have to act according to rules, that our opponents have only disregard for, but if we don't, the line between us and them gets skimmed so much, that their side wins anyway.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

So I guess, we can throw the whole 'presumed innocence'-premise out of the window. So what the hell are we fighting terrorism for, if we throw overboard the basic principles of our 'free' western society ourselves. Sure it would be easy to fight fire with fire, but we gain nothing by acting like the criminals we are fighting against. I know it is harder, because we (the good guys) have to act according to rules, that our opponents have only disregard for, but if we don't, the line between us and them gets skimmed so much, that their side wins anyway.

Its interesting how the rules changes and btw dont need to be respected by US governements...

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve)

Maybe I'm a bit of an extremist when it comes to dealing with these terrorists, but I don't get these people who call out Bush for having these secret prisions. Why should we stick these evil people into Guantanmo Bay and put them through a legal trial? I understand it can bring closure in terms of punishing these people but they don't deserve humane treatment. These terrorists don't follow the "rules of war" - instead they purposely hurt innocent civilians and hide within the civilian population.

Honestly steve you claim to have a Catholic background.....


If we were to just kill them all we would be no better than them. it is much like the golden rule. live to set an example rather than stooping to a lower level.

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

So I guess, we can throw the whole 'presumed innocence'-premise out of the window. So what the hell are we fighting terrorism for, if we throw overboard the basic principles of our 'free' western society ourselves. Sure it would be easy to fight fire with fire, but we gain nothing by acting like the criminals we are fighting against. I know it is harder, because we (the good guys) have to act according to rules, that our opponents have only disregard for, but if we don't, the line between us and them gets skimmed so much, that their side wins anyway.

First of all, the whole "presumed innocent" thing doesn't apply to Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters caught in the battlefields of Afghanistan. It's different if a suspected terrorist was caught in Cleveland, Ohio. Nevertheless, Al Qaeda is not a military representing a certain country, nor are they uniformed soldiers. They break the rules of war on a daily basis and to me, that means that they agree to void any sorts of rules of engagement used towards them. What possibly irks me even more is that the United States is villified here and not Al Qaeda or any other Islamo-fascist organization. It's like "although Al Qaeda is infamous for brutally executing the innocent civilians they capture, they deserve to be treated with nothing but utmost respect when arrested by uniformed, enemy soldiers." We're not executing people, we don't set up concentration camps for terrorists. We're holding them in locations that we prefer not to disclose. I mean, the world knows where Gitmo is... but there are still people who have some sort of problem with it. What do you propose we do? Have a full length, individual trial for each person that would like to kill every "infidel" of the Western world?

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow)

Honestly steve you claim to have a Catholic background.....


If we were to just kill them all we would be no better than them. it is much like the golden rule. live to set an example rather than stooping to a lower level.

Well, seeing as you find death humorous... just picture the death of Al Qaeda members as Porky Pig shooting Bugs Bunny.

[Steve]

Who said kill them? All I was referring to was the fact that we had these terrorists in secret prisons. The uproar by the "left" was that these terrorists may not be receiving humane treatment in such prisons. I say, who cares? They don't deserve it.

And I should have mentioned what Chase did. I'm referring to the capture of terrorists in the battlefield. There were/are the people that were sent to these secret CIA prisons. Like Chase said,

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

First of all, the whole "presumed innocent" thing doesn't apply to Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters caught in the battlefields of Afghanistan.

That sums it all up to me.

[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Well, seeing as you find death humorous... just picture the death of Al Qaeda members as Porky Pig shooting Bugs Bunny.

You miss the point not like that comes as a suprise... you seem to miss a lot (hell no one got the whole thing about death being funny) People seem to be so afriad of life that they can't find the humor or the irony in it that makes life interesting.