Bush! - Page 2

Ana4Stapp · 10-13-2005, 12:38 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer) I am no Bush lover but you just totally lost my support. The United States of America is the the greatest darn thing to happen to the world in the last 500 years. We practically forced the world into the majorly democratic place it is today. Let me ask you how many major democratic countries were there before the U.S.? Hmmm... let's see. Can't think of any.

Oh...you know I love you and your posts man, but that phrase here ...is...WOW!!!

Chase · 10-13-2005, 02:24 AM

Everyone around the world is entitled to their opinions regarding the politics of the United States of America. However, EVERYTHING that you accused America and President Bush of being shows the complete lack of knowledge that judgemental Europeans have. I think that most of the blame should lie with the European media... who is OVERWHELMINGLY anti-American. I'll reiterate what Uncertain was saying... the United States since 1776 has been primarily a force of good on the international level. France was the first country really influenced by the United State's policies and from there, multiple nations adopted the idea of democracy... the ability to allow their citizens to elect their leaders. No one should dispute the United States ousting of the Taliban in Afghanistan... and I can see why people aren't for the war in Iraq. However, A LOT of good is came from going into Iraq. Getting rid of a murderous tyrant was essential for establishing the venom to Islamic fundamentalism... democracy. And like I said previously, there have been a few countries influenced by Iraq's will to have elections... mind you, 60% of Iraqis went to the polls for their first democratically held elections. That's MORE than the United States and to top it off they risked their lives to do it. Obviously, electing their own leaders was a strong incentive for them. The war isn't for oil. We're paying too much money for gas in America right now and if this was a war for oil... the price for a gallon of oil would be much lower. Following the first Gulf War, we had access to ALL of Kuwait's oil reserves... who controls that oil now? Not the United States... the Kuwaitis. American foreign policy isn't imperialistic... and it hasn't been since about 100 years. America entered World War II in 1941... and the war ended in 1945. Europe was in war in roughly 1939... and during the period of 1939-1941, the United States was giving arms and ships to Britain. We were attacked by Japan, not Germany. It was after we declared war on Japan that Germany declared war on us. Many Americans died to liberate Europe from Nazi Germany. My grandfather fought (and thankfully lived) in Europe... as well as countless other men. The French, the Poles, the Czechs, the Austrians... and other peoples literally owe their existance as a nation to the United States, Great Britain and the former U.S.S.R. I mean, you're criticizing us... and you're from a nation that hasn't contributed ANYTHING to ANYONE. Like I said before... Sweden was a neutral country in World War I and World War II. They were either easily intimadated by Hitler or sided with him. Why has Europe all of sudden turned into one be union of pacifists? The only nations that would actually defend Europe from foreign invaders would be Britain, Italy, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, and Spain's former government (they have since quivered at the hands of terrorism). America is a nation of immigrants and it was mainly Europeans that founded this nation. I'm of Sicilian and German descent and once my family arrived here, they were undoubtedly patriotic and willing to give their lives to the nation that gave them the freedoms that they didn't have in the old country. MILLIONS of other immigrants have felt that way. Sometimes, it seems that all of the Europeans with integrity came to the United States. We have a huge population of everyone from Swedes and Filipinos, to Mexicans to Irish... what makes America strong is its diversity and its commitment to freedom (that's not to say that America hasn't had problems in its past... but overall America is the nation that has contributed the most to international security since the time of its creation).

RoffeDH · 10-13-2005, 04:31 AM

Hey Uncertain

Liked the last bit

Now I have already said why we weren't in war at WW2 and that US of A only contributed to the war after being draged in to it! Didn't say who did it and yes it was the japans! And then the Nazis said they were at war with the Americans... So what would have happened if Japan hadn't gone to war with US of A... Were would America have been then?

Have anyone of you seen Team America?

I agree with all of you that America WAS a great country and like I said lost it some were between WW1 and WW2! I mean Vietnam? Why did you go to war there? To test some new wepons? (A brief history lesson: The French started the war (I think it was them) and they couldn't win so thwy terned to USA and said "here take over!" and USA said "YEAH! Now we can finaly test ournew wepons!" so they did)

Have people in america thought of the poor? I mean, if you loos you job you'll most likely end up in the street! In Sweden we have a "net" for that, if you lose your job you'll get money anyway but you have to search for a job to get the money!

Yeah! I'm almoste a commie, and no I hate Stalin! Thats not communism! Thats Stalinism (Yes that's what it's called!)!
I belive in everyones right! The poor shuldn't be poor but the rich are allowed to be rich, just not filthy rich!

And to get back to Bush, HE'S IN SCULL AND BONES! If you now what that is, or atleast it's calimed by CBS 60 minuets and many other shows that I've "found" on the internet!

uncertaindrumer · 10-13-2005, 09:09 AM

The U.S. lost it between WWI and WWII.

I think YOU lost it somewhere long the way...

And Ana, I told you, I had had too much orange soda... but still, the United States going democratic did hasten the democracy of the rest of the world. But of course Roffe wants communistic countries where millions are murdered

uncertaindrumer · 10-13-2005, 09:11 AM

And a decent post, Chase, but please please pretty please use paragraphs next time, lol

RoffeDH · 10-13-2005, 09:19 AM

I'm guessing your joking when you're saying that I want millions to be murdered becous I'm almoste a commie... To answere if you weren't joking: NO I don't! I just don't want the bounderies between the poor and the rich to be this great! Thats it!

The Lithium · 10-13-2005, 09:20 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by JulieCitySlicker) I don't give a flying rats ass about what you think of Bush! Your not from this country,so who cares what you think

That's just the fucking dumbest thing anyone has ever said... EVER!!! By bombing Iraq and stealing its oil he has affected the world economy. The whole world is suffering from Bush mistakes, so think before you open your mouth next time, will ya?

The Lithium · 10-13-2005, 09:32 AM

Double post

JulieCitySlicker · 10-13-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) WOW!!! Whats your problem, Julie? Are you telling me to shut my mouth just because Im not from your country???? Who said you can do that?

You know democracy?

I think you just dont understand how politics works...By the way if you dont care what I think about Bush or politics...WHY you are here?

Just to you know...Bush foreign policy gives us (no american people like Lith, Roffe...) the right to say our opinion, because like I said 'what Bush does spreads all over the world', you know?

Im SICK of your agressive replies to my posts on the political banter! Because everytime I posted something about it (because I LOVE politics!) you came with this kind of answer -last time I recall you asking the mods to close the thread after I gave my opinion, but thanks God the mods here are not closed mind people as you seem to be... but you know wahts funny i dont recall you saying your opinions...

And even Chase who has enormous different political visions that I have is much more respectful than you. And I respect him cause he always says his opinion, but I NEVER saw him just saying someone to shut the mouth out because the person is not from US.

Its just... IGNORANCE !!!!

I'm not going to respond to this right now because I'm in an extremely bad mood at the moment,and have been for quite a few days. That is probably why I posted that. I didn't mean to offend anyone but ya I'm never posting here again so don't fucking worry about it!

RoffeDH · 10-13-2005, 12:32 PM

Still you said it

RMadd · 10-13-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) WOW!!! Whats your problem, Julie? Are you telling me to shut my mouth just because Im not from your country???? Who said you can do that?

You know democracy?

in an interesting twist, our democracy (as well as, presumably, every other free state) permits her to have such an opinion. Who said she could do that? Why, our democratic government did! Brilliant!

RMadd · 10-13-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by The Lithium) That's just the fucking dumbest thing anyone has ever said... EVER!!! By bombing Iraq and stealing its oil he has affected the world economy. The whole world is suffering from Bush mistakes, so think before you open your mouth next time, will ya?

hey there, calm down there fella. while i don't necessarily agree w/ julie that we essentially need not care what those abroad think, you're just as off base to attack her by calling it the dumbest thing ever said. i've got a sneaking suspicion that much dumber things have been said.
bombing Iraq & stealing its oil? is that how this war is related by the international media? wow. let me say, then, that i pity you guys. while Bush's ultimate motive may well have been oil (that's not what he's saying, but there have been significant arguments to the contrary, and with good reason), we certainly are not stealing Iraq's oil. believe it or not, Iraq isn't even our #1 importer of international oil sources. they're something like #4 or lower. but, at any rate, they've been working to get it worked out fairly. we're not imperial colonists like Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, and all those European countries were back in the 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, and even the early 20th centuries (imperial democracy, in the vein of Athens, is more like it lol) where we force our way into another place and dominate its resources. though the Bush administration might not be the best we've had (thanks to Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rummy, and all those cronies), I firmly believe we are trying to truly develop a stable democratic & capitalist state in the Middle East so in the very least, if for nothing else, we don't completely ruin our already-soured ties with other major players on the international scene (Germany, Russia, France too I suppose). Furthermore, the global economy already began to tank prior to the Iraq War, prior to invading Afghanistan, even prior to 9/11 (I might be the only one who recalls president Bush on the campaign trail in 2000 predicting that our nation's economy and, with it, the global economy, was headed for a downturn in the near future, and saying that we needed to be prepared). So, Lith, I'm pretty sure this little economic stagnation we're worrying about here is more a result of the excessive inflation (and lack of desire to control it) that we had in the 1990s. The market is, more or less, readjusting itself. Also, since you're in Europe, and presumably familiar with the Euro, if I were you, I'd be happy about that right now: it's actually far more valuable than the US dollar. So, please, consider other factors other than the political rhetoric spewed by the media in your newspapers and on your TV screen and weigh the evidence in a more objective manner before you open your mouth next time, will ya?

Steve · 10-13-2005, 01:07 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by RoffeDH) Have people in america thought of the poor? I mean, if you loos you job you'll most likely end up in the street! In Sweden we have a "net" for that, if you lose your job you'll get money anyway but you have to search for a job to get the money!

I can't believe some of the stereotypical anti-american ideas you Europeans have. This one as an example - you really believe America has no system for unemployment? Try researching...

And no offense to you Lithium but it's kind of hard to have a civil discussion regarding American politics when you have your head so far up Michael Moore's ass it's not funny. You claim you haven't heard anyone reveal things that Moore has said that was false. Well try reading this. You probably won't because it's several hundred pages, but take a look:

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fift...enheit-911.htm

Or try a Google Search

JulieCitySlicker · 10-13-2005, 02:17 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by RoffeDH) Still you said it

Ya,I know I still said it! I am apologizing now for it though. I am not in a descent state of mind right now and couldn't make a nice post if I tried to. So there ya go! I still haven't changed my opinion on Bush though.

RoffeDH · 10-13-2005, 02:18 PM

Welcome to the topic Steve

Nice page you have there I must say... Wont read all of it though witch I think you might find fair. But I can say this then "More down the can!" okey? Are we on the same page?

Now to my defense of the thing I said about the unemployment system in america... YES! You have... But how good is it? Seriusly! If I'm poor and break a leg, have no job... What should I do, I can't likely pay of both the medicalbill and the rent to my appartment with that sallery... That's what I'm talking 'bout, correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to have an incuranse or the doctors arn't alowed to operate on you, Right?

RMadd, pleas press "enter" some times!
And RMadd I hate the euro! And thankefully we don't have it! We CAN shop with it at bigger places, and the companies do buissnues with the euro. But we still have kroners thank god! Now why do I hate it? It will make the stepp to a "new america" closer (United States of Europe), no thanks!

10-13-2005, 02:24 AM	#17
Chase USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,160 Joined: Oct 2004 Currently: Offline	Everyone around the world is entitled to their opinions regarding the politics of the United States of America. However, EVERYTHING that you accused America and President Bush of being shows the complete lack of knowledge that judgemental Europeans have. I think that most of the blame should lie with the European media... who is OVERWHELMINGLY anti-American. I'll reiterate what Uncertain was saying... the United States since 1776 has been primarily a force of good on the international level. France was the first country really influenced by the United State's policies and from there, multiple nations adopted the idea of democracy... the ability to allow their citizens to elect their leaders. No one should dispute the United States ousting of the Taliban in Afghanistan... and I can see why people aren't for the war in Iraq. However, A LOT of good is came from going into Iraq. Getting rid of a murderous tyrant was essential for establishing the venom to Islamic fundamentalism... democracy. And like I said previously, there have been a few countries influenced by Iraq's will to have elections... mind you, 60% of Iraqis went to the polls for their first democratically held elections. That's MORE than the United States and to top it off they risked their lives to do it. Obviously, electing their own leaders was a strong incentive for them. The war isn't for oil. We're paying too much money for gas in America right now and if this was a war for oil... the price for a gallon of oil would be much lower. Following the first Gulf War, we had access to ALL of Kuwait's oil reserves... who controls that oil now? Not the United States... the Kuwaitis. American foreign policy isn't imperialistic... and it hasn't been since about 100 years. America entered World War II in 1941... and the war ended in 1945. Europe was in war in roughly 1939... and during the period of 1939-1941, the United States was giving arms and ships to Britain. We were attacked by Japan, not Germany. It was after we declared war on Japan that Germany declared war on us. Many Americans died to liberate Europe from Nazi Germany. My grandfather fought (and thankfully lived) in Europe... as well as countless other men. The French, the Poles, the Czechs, the Austrians... and other peoples literally owe their existance as a nation to the United States, Great Britain and the former U.S.S.R. I mean, you're criticizing us... and you're from a nation that hasn't contributed ANYTHING to ANYONE. Like I said before... Sweden was a neutral country in World War I and World War II. They were either easily intimadated by Hitler or sided with him. Why has Europe all of sudden turned into one be union of pacifists? The only nations that would actually defend Europe from foreign invaders would be Britain, Italy, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, and Spain's former government (they have since quivered at the hands of terrorism). America is a nation of immigrants and it was mainly Europeans that founded this nation. I'm of Sicilian and German descent and once my family arrived here, they were undoubtedly patriotic and willing to give their lives to the nation that gave them the freedoms that they didn't have in the old country. MILLIONS of other immigrants have felt that way. Sometimes, it seems that all of the Europeans with integrity came to the United States. We have a huge population of everyone from Swedes and Filipinos, to Mexicans to Irish... what makes America strong is its diversity and its commitment to freedom (that's not to say that America hasn't had problems in its past... but overall America is the nation that has contributed the most to international security since the time of its creation). Last edited by Chase : 10-13-2005 at 02:28 AM.

10-13-2005, 09:09 AM	#19
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	The U.S. lost it between WWI and WWII. I think YOU lost it somewhere long the way... And Ana, I told you, I had had too much orange soda... but still, the United States going democratic did hasten the democracy of the rest of the world. But of course Roffe wants communistic countries where millions are murdered __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

10-13-2005, 09:11 AM	#20
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	And a decent post, Chase, but please please pretty please use paragraphs next time, lol __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

10-13-2005, 09:19 AM	#21
RoffeDH USER INFO » Status: Blue Collar Posts: 722 Joined: Sep 2004 Currently: Offline	I'm guessing your joking when you're saying that I want millions to be murdered becous I'm almoste a commie... To answere if you weren't joking: NO I don't! I just don't want the bounderies between the poor and the rich to be this great! Thats it! __________________ I kissed their feet in London in september Does anyone know if Myles like my "jungel vrål" candy? Gave it to them when they were in London last time... PM me and tell me

10-13-2005, 12:23 PM	#24
JulieCitySlicker USER INFO » Status: Taken Higher Posts: 15,310 Joined: Oct 2002 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) WOW!!! Whats your problem, Julie? Are you telling me to shut my mouth just because Im not from your country???? Who said you can do that? You know democracy? I think you just dont understand how politics works...By the way if you dont care what I think about Bush or politics...WHY you are here? Just to you know...Bush foreign policy gives us (no american people like Lith, Roffe...) the right to say our opinion, because like I said 'what Bush does spreads all over the world', you know? Im SICK of your agressive replies to my posts on the political banter! Because everytime I posted something about it (because I LOVE politics!) you came with this kind of answer -last time I recall you asking the mods to close the thread after I gave my opinion, but thanks God the mods here are not closed mind people as you seem to be... but you know wahts funny i dont recall you saying your opinions... And even Chase who has enormous different political visions that I have is much more respectful than you. And I respect him cause he always says his opinion, but I NEVER saw him just saying someone to shut the mouth out because the person is not from US. Its just... IGNORANCE !!!! I'm not going to respond to this right now because I'm in an extremely bad mood at the moment,and have been for quite a few days. That is probably why I posted that. I didn't mean to offend anyone but ya I'm never posting here again so don't fucking worry about it! __________________ Oh I'm a wandering soul I'm still walking the line that leads me home alone All I know I still got mountains to climb on my own Enough To Let Me Go-Switchfoot

10-13-2005, 04:31 AM	#18
RoffeDH USER INFO » Status: Blue Collar Posts: 722 Joined: Sep 2004 Currently: Offline	Hey Uncertain Liked the last bit Now I have already said why we weren't in war at WW2 and that US of A only contributed to the war after being draged in to it! Didn't say who did it and yes it was the japans! And then the Nazis said they were at war with the Americans... So what would have happened if Japan hadn't gone to war with US of A... Were would America have been then? Have anyone of you seen Team America? I agree with all of you that America WAS a great country and like I said lost it some were between WW1 and WW2! I mean Vietnam? Why did you go to war there? To test some new wepons? (A brief history lesson: The French started the war (I think it was them) and they couldn't win so thwy terned to USA and said "here take over!" and USA said "YEAH! Now we can finaly test ournew wepons!" so they did) Have people in america thought of the poor? I mean, if you loos you job you'll most likely end up in the street! In Sweden we have a "net" for that, if you lose your job you'll get money anyway but you have to search for a job to get the money! Yeah! I'm almoste a commie, and no I hate Stalin! Thats not communism! Thats Stalinism (Yes that's what it's called!)! I belive in everyones right! The poor shuldn't be poor but the rich are allowed to be rich, just not filthy rich! And to get back to Bush, HE'S IN SCULL AND BONES! If you now what that is, or atleast it's calimed by CBS 60 minuets and many other shows that I've "found" on the internet!

10-13-2005, 12:32 PM	#25
RoffeDH USER INFO » Status: Blue Collar Posts: 722 Joined: Sep 2004 Currently: Offline	Still you said it __________________ I kissed their feet in London in september Does anyone know if Myles like my "jungel vrål" candy? Gave it to them when they were in London last time... PM me and tell me

10-13-2005, 12:40 PM	#26
RMadd USER INFO » Status: Found The Real Posts: 10,546 Joined: Aug 2003 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) WOW!!! Whats your problem, Julie? Are you telling me to shut my mouth just because Im not from your country???? Who said you can do that? You know democracy? in an interesting twist, our democracy (as well as, presumably, every other free state) permits her to have such an opinion. Who said she could do that? Why, our democratic government did! Brilliant! __________________

10-13-2005, 12:55 PM	#27
RMadd USER INFO » Status: Found The Real Posts: 10,546 Joined: Aug 2003 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by The Lithium) That's just the fucking dumbest thing anyone has ever said... EVER!!! By bombing Iraq and stealing its oil he has affected the world economy. The whole world is suffering from Bush mistakes, so think before you open your mouth next time, will ya? hey there, calm down there fella. while i don't necessarily agree w/ julie that we essentially need not care what those abroad think, you're just as off base to attack her by calling it the dumbest thing ever said. i've got a sneaking suspicion that much dumber things have been said. bombing Iraq & stealing its oil? is that how this war is related by the international media? wow. let me say, then, that i pity you guys. while Bush's ultimate motive may well have been oil (that's not what he's saying, but there have been significant arguments to the contrary, and with good reason), we certainly are not stealing Iraq's oil. believe it or not, Iraq isn't even our #1 importer of international oil sources. they're something like #4 or lower. but, at any rate, they've been working to get it worked out fairly. we're not imperial colonists like Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, and all those European countries were back in the 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, and even the early 20th centuries (imperial democracy, in the vein of Athens, is more like it lol) where we force our way into another place and dominate its resources. though the Bush administration might not be the best we've had (thanks to Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rummy, and all those cronies), I firmly believe we are trying to truly develop a stable democratic & capitalist state in the Middle East so in the very least, if for nothing else, we don't completely ruin our already-soured ties with other major players on the international scene (Germany, Russia, France too I suppose). Furthermore, the global economy already began to tank prior to the Iraq War, prior to invading Afghanistan, even prior to 9/11 (I might be the only one who recalls president Bush on the campaign trail in 2000 predicting that our nation's economy and, with it, the global economy, was headed for a downturn in the near future, and saying that we needed to be prepared). So, Lith, I'm pretty sure this little economic stagnation we're worrying about here is more a result of the excessive inflation (and lack of desire to control it) that we had in the 1990s. The market is, more or less, readjusting itself. Also, since you're in Europe, and presumably familiar with the Euro, if I were you, I'd be happy about that right now: it's actually far more valuable than the US dollar. So, please, consider other factors other than the political rhetoric spewed by the media in your newspapers and on your TV screen and weigh the evidence in a more objective manner before you open your mouth next time, will ya? __________________

10-13-2005, 02:17 PM	#29
JulieCitySlicker USER INFO » Status: Taken Higher Posts: 15,310 Joined: Oct 2002 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by RoffeDH) Still you said it Ya,I know I still said it! I am apologizing now for it though. I am not in a descent state of mind right now and couldn't make a nice post if I tried to. So there ya go! I still haven't changed my opinion on Bush though. __________________ Oh I'm a wandering soul I'm still walking the line that leads me home alone All I know I still got mountains to climb on my own Enough To Let Me Go-Switchfoot

10-13-2005, 02:18 PM	#30
RoffeDH USER INFO » Status: Blue Collar Posts: 722 Joined: Sep 2004 Currently: Offline	Welcome to the topic Steve Nice page you have there I must say... Wont read all of it though witch I think you might find fair. But I can say this then "More down the can!" okey? Are we on the same page? Now to my defense of the thing I said about the unemployment system in america... YES! You have... But how good is it? Seriusly! If I'm poor and break a leg, have no job... What should I do, I can't likely pay of both the medicalbill and the rent to my appartment with that sallery... That's what I'm talking 'bout, correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to have an incuranse or the doctors arn't alowed to operate on you, Right? RMadd, pleas press "enter" some times! And RMadd I hate the euro! And thankefully we don't have it! We CAN shop with it at bigger places, and the companies do buissnues with the euro. But we still have kroners thank god! Now why do I hate it? It will make the stepp to a "new america" closer (United States of Europe), no thanks! __________________ I kissed their feet in London in september Does anyone know if Myles like my "jungel vrål" candy? Gave it to them when they were in London last time... PM me and tell me

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