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Old 02-02-2006, 04:54 PM   #1
Chase
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Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183551,00.html

Thoughts? Islamic extremists are now confronting Europe.
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:58 PM   #2
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

I hesitate to say this, but I might as well....

Thank God there's finally someone to share in the anti-Western sentiment to emanates from the Middle East!
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Old 02-02-2006, 05:01 PM   #3
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

But, on a serious note, I almost couldn't believe this when I first heard about it a day or two ago. It's outrageous, and it seems like something that would almost certainly not be tolerated in most places in the U.S. We're a country built on religious freedom and, although there did exist a certain degree of anti-Arab and anti-Muslim sentiment immediately following 9/11, it seems that has largely subsided, and that most Americans would find this disgusting. Looks like we're not the only insensitive folk in the world, after all.
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:04 AM   #4
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) But, on a serious note, I almost couldn't believe this when I first heard about it a day or two ago. It's outrageous, and it seems like something that would almost certainly not be tolerated in most places in the U.S. We're a country built on religious freedom and, although there did exist a certain degree of anti-Arab and anti-Muslim sentiment immediately following 9/11, it seems that has largely subsided, and that most Americans would find this disgusting. Looks like we're not the only insensitive folk in the world, after all.

So what are you saying? The papers were wrong for publicizing the cartoons?
If that's it, I totally disagree. I support them for showing solidarity with the Danes. If there is one thing that is most common in our current Western values, it has to be the freedom of expression, which should include any freedom in outing opinion/ridicule over religions. Jesus, Buddha, Yahweh, Jehova, Zeus, Odin, Mohammed, they are no exceptions to the rule, just because some part of the world's population mey hold them in high esteem.
Especially in a case like this were insult was definitely not the target of the cartoonist.

The western world should not apologize for someone executing one of their most prized possesions, the freedom of speech and expression.
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Old 02-03-2006, 03:34 PM   #5
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

EXACTLY. I finally agree with you. I also was shocked seeing young Danes in the streets basically begging for Islamic forgiveness. Freedom of speech is an essential part to Western values... if they have a problem with it, oh well. No one should apologize.
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Old 02-03-2006, 03:41 PM   #6
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

I'm saying it's not right to trample over the core beliefs of more than 1 billion people in the world at the cost of humoring a handful of white, secular and/or Christian Europeans who are merely scared shitless by the increasing number of Muslims moving into Europe. Very very poor taste, if you ask me.
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Old 02-04-2006, 07:28 AM   #7
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

I would agree with you, if it would have been the target of these cartoons to insult islam or the islam people, but every one should be able to take themselves and their religion not to seriously at all times.

If suddenly Mohammed is above being cartooned, who's next Dubya, because I don't know how many people voted for him and his ideas?

Shit happens, deal with it.
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Old 02-06-2006, 01:18 AM   #8
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) I would agree with you, if it would have been the target of these cartoons to insult islam or the islam people, but every one should be able to take themselves and their religion not to seriously at all times.
So it's okay to attack a large (veeeeeery large) group's core beliefs if it's the means to making a broader statement? I understand what you're saying about the magazine trying to take a stand on free speech, but it seems senseless why they might choose perhaps the most volatile religion as the means to that end? I also suspect that the whole truth isn't being told. Why Islam, of all groups? Why not pick on American Christians? Sure we might get a little ticked off, but we'll just sort of shrug it off as "European secularism" and go about our merry way without burning books and effigies. Why not Gandhi eating a Big Mac (if, in fact, McDonalds does use real beef)? I strongly suspect that there's no small minority of Europeans who are mortified by the prospect of a growing Muslim population in the historically almost-all-white, all-Christian continent.

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) If suddenly Mohammed is above being cartooned, who's next Dubya, because I don't know how many people voted for him and his ideas?
So you're comparing G-Dub to the founder of one of the great religions of this world, even if only in jest??? In my mind, there's a slight (and, by "slight," I mean "pretty extraordinary") difference between the two and their impacts on world religion.

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) Shit happens, deal with it.
It's funny: people say this alot, but then sort of ignore it when it comes down to the nitty gritty. What happens if people take that attitude dealing with Iraq? "Oh well, the U.S. wants to invade. No sense in us doing anything to try and stop them." "Well, golly, that white police officer just beat the tar out of me, a black man, with his nightstick for no reason whatsoever. Oh, heck, I won't press the issue, just move on, that's what I always say..."
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:40 AM   #9
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) So it's okay to attack a large (veeeeeery large) group's core beliefs if it's the means to making a broader statement? I understand what you're saying about the magazine trying to take a stand on free speech, but it seems senseless why they might choose perhaps the most volatile religion as the means to that end? I also suspect that the whole truth isn't being told. Why Islam, of all groups? Why not pick on American Christians? Sure we might get a little ticked off, but we'll just sort of shrug it off as "European secularism" and go about our merry way without burning books and effigies. Why not Gandhi eating a Big Mac (if, in fact, McDonalds does use real beef)? I strongly suspect that there's no small minority of Europeans who are mortified by the prospect of a growing Muslim population in the historically almost-all-white, all-Christian continent.

So you're comparing G-Dub to the founder of one of the great religions of this world, even if only in jest??? In my mind, there's a slight (and, by "slight," I mean "pretty extraordinary") difference between the two and their impacts on world religion.

It's funny: people say this alot, but then sort of ignore it when it comes down to the nitty gritty. What happens if people take that attitude dealing with Iraq? "Oh well, the U.S. wants to invade. No sense in us doing anything to try and stop them." "Well, golly, that white police officer just beat the tar out of me, a black man, with his nightstick for no reason whatsoever. Oh, heck, I won't press the issue, just move on, that's what I always say..."

Oh, the religion is volatile, and therefore we should just abide by their wishes, and try the utmost not to enrage anyone.

What did actually happen? Someone drew a character, the founder of an religion to some, no one special to others, and related in a funny matter some things that people tend to associate with that religion also in the picture? It's a drawing !!!! People want to kill people for drawing !!! I hear they are urging for Fatwa's against the cartoonists. This is exactly the thing why islam/mohammed was drawn as a terrorist, these people need to get a sense of humor. And if you don't like the paper, don't buy it.

Who is making the bad comparison's now. Comparing the fuzz over some cartoons, with invading a nation/starting a war.

I don't even care why these cartoons were published, except maybe if they were really intentionally being made to piss off people/muslims, but even than, in our western society we can make cartoons of Jesus, the basic character of the major religion of the west, therefore we can do the same to any religious character. Blasphemy is probably the most stupid law there is.

This is just Salman Rushdie all over again, muslims will just have to learn that not all people agree with their religion and criticism, sarcasm, irony on your religion of choice is something you will have to deal with, and if your religion is all that you think is is, it can stand some scrutiny.
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Old 02-06-2006, 01:45 PM   #10
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) What did actually happen? Someone drew a character, the founder of an religion to some, no one special to others, and related in a funny matter some things that people tend to associate with that religion also in the picture? It's a drawing !!!! People want to kill people for drawing !!! I hear they are urging for Fatwa's against the cartoonists. This is exactly the thing why islam/mohammed was drawn as a terrorist, these people need to get a sense of humor. And if you don't like the paper, don't buy it.
That's got to be one of the most ridiculous cop-outs ever. "If you don't like it, don't buy it." Yes, that's an option, but it doesn't change the fact that it was printed and reprinted across the continent. I'm not suggesting that, any and every time someone might be offended, we merely back off and not do anything to offend them. Rather, I'm saying that the paper, editors, and cartoonist(s) all need to take a good look at against whom they're planning to take a stand, that group's potential reactions to the stimuli, and, in the case of newsmedia, that group's familiarity with and understanding of the standards of Western newsmedia. It seems pretty blatantly obvious to me that Islamic culture doesn't jive with many precepts of Western society. Also, given the divisive nature of the current situation in international politics (namely, that Middle Easterners seem to tend to hate the West), I would advise against doing something that only gives extremists more reason to protest against us in whatever manner they choose.

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) Who is making the bad comparison's now. Comparing the fuzz over some cartoons, with invading a nation/starting a war.
Well, your "tough shit" attitude seemed to indicate to me that, when you're faced with something you might not like, then don't worry about it at all.

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) I don't even care why these cartoons were published, except maybe if they were really intentionally being made to piss off people/muslims, but even than, in our western society we can make cartoons of Jesus, the basic character of the major religion of the west, therefore we can do the same to any religious character. Blasphemy is probably the most stupid law there is.
You yourself have already pointed out that Western culture is more understanding. That means we're not going to take caricatures of Jesus and start rioting in the streets over them. Yes, I might be slightly offended over them, but it's no reason to barricade government officials in their office for 45 minutes. In this sense, you're comparing apples and oranges. Many of the precepts governing day-to-day behavior in Islam are far different from those in Christianity. So, saying that Muslims should just deal with it because we, as Westerners, are able to is an absurdly ludicrous statement. They don't have a history of centuries of free press. For them, freedom of expression is gathering in a group on the street and burning images related to the US and Europe (flags, effigies, pictures, etc.). So, in this sense, perhaps more disturbing than anything else, the printing of these cartoons represents an insensitivity toward core Islamic beliefs and a severe inability to grasp just what that insensitivity means.

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS) This is just Salman Rushdie all over again, muslims will just have to learn that not all people agree with their religion and criticism, sarcasm, irony on your religion of choice is something you will have to deal with, and if your religion is all that you think is is, it can stand some scrutiny.
Maybe they will have to, and it will be great if they do. But, at the present, they don't. Was the cartoon published as a statement to Westerners? If so, I think most people in Europe and the U.S. already have a pretty good understanding of the intolerance of Islamic society (particularly Fundamentalist Islam) and that they need to allow a bit more. Or was it made as a statement to Muslims that they need to lighten up? If that's the case, I don't think they got the point. If you want to point something out to them, and have a prayer of a hope that they actually catch on to it, you have to speak their language, to use their means of communicating ideas. Otherwise, the ulterior motives of something like this falls on deaf ears, and is widely misinterpreted, causing an even greater uproar in Muslim cities in the Middle East.
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Old 02-06-2006, 04:10 PM   #11
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

This is where I step in and say "look what religion gets you" people are offended by the smallest stupidest things. I mean I have put anti- religion things on my car such as a sticker that reads "God is just pretend" and my car has been vandalized many times. but it seems ok fine and dandy if say a Xtian put on any pro-god sticker on thier car that I have to put up with day in and day out. I have more respect than to vandalize some ones car. there is no tolerence when it comes to matters of god thats why there can't be a god because so many people say that there is just one certain god but no one can agree who or what god is. I mean come on people can you just see it that WE (i mean mankind) Created god??
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Old 02-06-2006, 07:55 PM   #12
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

so you're asserting that religion is the only reason "people are offended by the smallest stupidest things"?
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:40 PM   #13
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase) EXACTLY. I finally agree with you. I also was shocked seeing young Danes in the streets basically begging for Islamic forgiveness. Freedom of speech is an essential part to Western values... if they have a problem with it, oh well. No one should apologize.


Really????!!! So answer me if this includes U.S. ...

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=214629



PS: Well ...you told me to come back...so Im here... hope you wont be sorry for that --- lol
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:57 PM   #14
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) So it's okay to attack a large (veeeeeery large) group's core beliefs if it's the means to making a broader statement? I understand what you're saying about the magazine trying to take a stand on free speech, but it seems senseless why they might choose perhaps the most volatile religion as the means to that end? I also suspect that the whole truth isn't being told. Why Islam, of all groups? Why not pick on American Christians? Sure we might get a little ticked off, but we'll just sort of shrug it off as "European secularism" and go about our merry way without burning books and effigies. Why not Gandhi eating a Big Mac (if, in fact, McDonalds does use real beef)? I strongly suspect that there's no small minority of Europeans who are mortified by the prospect of a growing Muslim population in the historically almost-all-white, all-Christian continent.
"


You couldnt say it better, Ryan...

Im not a religious person, (by the way Im almost an atheist) , always defend freedom in all means-- what definitely makes people here think that Im too much liberalist (almost true ) but I have to admitt that those cartoons showed up in a inappropriate moment...did you guys realize that Iran's president is using this as an excuse to try to unite muslims against ocicdent??? Its the moment he was anxiously waiting...and we gave it to him...


In a meeting with local authors, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad condemned the cartoons and addressed the West: “Insulting the Prophet Muhammad would not promote your position,”

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10705393/

Was it necessary????
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So while I'm turning in my sheets
And once again, I cannot sleep
Walk out the door and up the street
Look at the stars
Look at the stars, falling down,
And I wonder where, did I go wrong.




"I know a girl (Gio )
She puts the color inside of my world"

Girls become lovers who turn into mothers
So mothers be good to your daughters too
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:13 PM   #15
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Re: Militants Surround EU Offices in Gaza Over 'Offensive' Cartoons

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) Really????!!! So answer me if this includes U.S. ...

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=214629



PS: Well ...you told me to come back...so Im here... hope you wont be sorry for that --- lol

There are standards as to what one can say on T.V. For instance, on pornography, foul language, and other things aren't considered appropriate for some stations. We had the problem 2 years ago of Janet Jackson exposing a breast during the Super Bowl. I'm confused as to what kind of statement you're trying to make, by the way.

If there are kids watching, it's not appropriate to show or say certain things on T.V. Watching the Super Bowl is an American, family tradition for millions of families.

If you're going to come back in here... at least make sense when trying to make America look bad.
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