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Old 03-11-2004, 06:43 PM   #61
WeatheredWoman
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Quote: (Originally Posted by BearFan) we are morally opposed to such unions

Who are "we"??? Oh man! This is gonna smell like pure racism to me!


Quote: (Originally Posted by Bearfan) ...and i would imagine most of that comes from religion

Wars do too!

Quote: (Originally Posted by Bearfan) (i'm thinking the major denominations of christianity don't support homosexuality... those that do are sellouts, giving up beliefs to become more mainstream rather than hold on to their convictions regardless of what society, as a whole, thinks)

LMAO!!!!! No commend on that one... Your words show enough!

Kris, Dogstar I do agree with you both!
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:16 PM   #62
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve) Again I ask, then why should I be forced to accept changing the Pledge of Allegiance because the word "God" in the words offends someone? So must we change any and everything to cater to everyone's different feelings? The line has to be drawn somewhere...

Because the constitution states that church and state are separated...
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:20 PM   #63
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Lechium) Because the constitution states that church and state are separated...

Very well said Lech!
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:20 PM   #64
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Quote: (Originally Posted by BearFan) in one word, "morals"... we are morally opposed to such unions, and i would imagine most of that comes from religion (i'm thinking the major denominations of christianity don't support homosexuality... those that do are sellouts, giving up beliefs to become more mainstream rather than hold on to their convictions regardless of what society, as a whole, thinks)

Who the hell are 'we'? We, the people of America? Than gay people are not Americans I guess...

If I'm not mistaken in polls for/againt gay marriges is 55%/40% split (with 5% undecided)... now that's a fairly close call.

I was not againt gay people and pro gay marrige even beofoe i cam to US and was exposed to local media, so there are poeople who have their own belifs that gay marrige is alright, no just people 'sold out to the media'.

It's really hard for you to accept that not overwhemign majority of people share your belifs, now is it?
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:26 PM   #65
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Quote: (Originally Posted by WeatheredWoman) Who are "we"??? Oh man! This is gonna smell like pure racism to me!
how is this racism? i don't recall mentioning race anywhere, or even hinting at it. by "we", i mean those of us who don't support homosexual unions.
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:33 PM   #66
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Lechium) It's really hard for you to accept that not overwhemign majority of people share your belifs, now is it?
Yeah, sorry everyone, I'm extremely sorry for believing what I have chosen to believe. I should just give up and accept what the "societal norm" supposedly is, not giving a rats-ass for my current beliefs on this topic state. Because, you know, it's abhorrent to have anyone not supporting something which they feel is morally objectionable. Now, I haven't seen polls, so I'm not going to side w/ either Steve or Lech on their quotes until I actually have proof. And even if I'm not in the majority, Lech, how does that make me surprised to see other people disagree with me? I know (and have known) that there are those who do not share my opinions. Generally speaking, they're called "Democrats", and I have come to accept their existence (believe it or not!!!). Though I may not accept what other people believe (is it not my prerogative to believe this as, after all, it's other people's choices to believe whatever they choose?), I still very clearly understand the fact that these differences exist and, as a result, am not shocked, as you claim (though not in those words) that differences do abound.
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:34 PM   #67
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Lechium) Because the constitution states that church and state are separated...

Yes it may say that, but again this goes back to the beginning of the posts in this thread... this country was founded on religious principles, regardless of what the constitution says. Our founding fathers were all Christians from Europe (or at least majority).

And if church are state are truly separated, why do they say a prayer before opening a session in Congress? Why does our money say "in God we trust?"

To SCOTTSMYMAN: I understand that posting in this thread really isn't going to change anyone's minds. If my sole intent was to change someone's mind, I would refrain from posting in such threads because I know that will most likely never happen. I enjoy reading and partaking in debates. Please understand that any of my posts are not to be taken as mad, angered or other such way. I am simply rebutting comments made by others. I don't want my comments to be taken personally or insulting. I am posting my personal feelings and love to hear others. In my eyes, threads like this are more for entertainment purposes than anything else. If others have different feelings regarding debates, that's fine, however I am just letting you know my take on threads like these. Feel free to continue debating, even though we'll never change each others' minds.
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:36 PM   #68
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Lechium) Because the constitution states that church and state are separated...
this is an issue on which I'm on the fence... in fact, I tend to side with the liberals merely b/c the phrase involving God was added under 50 years ago (1958 or '59, if I'm not mistaken, which I well may be)... if it was initially part of the pledge, then I would have a problem w/ its removal. but due to the time of its addition, i can't say i approve that much of it
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:38 PM   #69
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar) I wholeheartedly disagree that this is a morals issue. That's YOUR opinion, not mine. And that last statement about sellouts is yet another slap in the face to anyone who is different from you.
but it's my opinion, right? to me, legalizing homosexual unions may be a slap in the face to all who oppose them... i really don't believe that it's slap, but if i wanted to, i could
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:38 PM   #70
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Quote: (Originally Posted by BearFan) how is this racism? i don't recall mentioning race anywhere, or even hinting at it. by "we", i mean those of us who don't support homosexual unions.

They're just as much entitled to have the same rights as straight women and straight men! If not, than that's pure discrimination... just like when women weren't allowed to vote about 100 years ago!

Hey! I've used the wrong word on that... I meant discrimination instead of racism! Sorry! My bad...
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:40 PM   #71
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Quote: (Originally Posted by WeatheredWoman) They're just as much entitled to have the same rights as straight women and straight men! If not, than that's pure discrimination... just like when women weren't allowed to vote about 100 years ago!
I see where you're coming from, but I wouldn't quite go so far as to say it's the same as. From my POV, God created both men and women as equals. IMO, God does not choose to make people homosexual. But, of course, this is just my radical right-wing, conservative Christian opinion...

Quote: (Originally Posted by WeatheredWoman) Hey! I've used the wrong word on that... I meant discrimination instead of racism! Sorry! My bad...
It's all good.... that's what I assumed you meant, but wanted to make sure you honestly didn't mean "racism"!
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:42 PM   #72
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Quote: (Originally Posted by BearFan) Now, I haven't seen polls, so I'm not going to side w/ either Steve or Lech on their quotes until I actually have proof.

I just did a search on Google using the term "same sex marriage polls" and obtained the following. Feel free to browse these.

- ABC News poll
- Gallup.com Poll
- PollingReport.com Polls

Take a look at that last one. It's got polls on several different topics from several different news sources over different time periods. It's a good comparison of the topic from 2000 to 2004 (now).
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:42 PM   #73
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Lechium) Because the constitution states that church and state are separated...

I dont believe you people understand what 'separation of church and state' really means. Our forefathers meant it to mean that the state cannot tell you what religion you have to be. It doesnt mean that religion should be illegal in school or public places. Our country was founded on Christianity. Those people that use separation of church and state as a way to eliminate God from the pledge of allegiance, or to have the Bible removed from courthouses, are ignorant to the meaning of the phrase they are using. And if the state and the church are separated, why does the church have to pay state and federal taxes?
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:44 PM   #74
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve) I just did a search on Google using the term "same sex marriage polls" and obtained the following. Feel free to browse these.

- ABC News poll
- Gallup.com Poll
- PollingReport.com Polls

Take a look at that last one. It's got polls on several different topics from several different news sources over different time periods. It's a good comparison of the topic from 2000 to 2004 (now).
Well, you've got me convinced Steve... though I might see what Lech was quoting... in the PollingReport.com, must've been the one dealing w/ civil unions...
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:45 PM   #75
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Quote: (Originally Posted by WeatheredWoman) They're just as much entitled to have the same rights as straight women and straight men! If not, than that's pure discrimination... just like when women weren't allowed to vote about 100 years ago!

Agreed. The government should allow the same rights married couples have to civil unions. That way gay people have the same physical rights as straight people do.
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