President Bush Re-Elected

[whitebird]

Some time ago, when several of us on this board were pleading for peace in this world, one of the people posting on this thread responded to my post with the quote "Better their children dead than ours".

I don't believe I will ever forget those words. They shocked me to the core of my being. And I know that the person using those words considers themselves a Christian.

I was raised a Christian, so I will use Jesus and his teachings to make my point, though I believe there are many truths in many religions.

If Jesus were walking the earth today, would he support the killing of children and innocents, rationalizing that the end justifies the means?

One of the children that I work with asked me who I voted for, I replied that I had voted for Kerry. Her eyes got wide, and she proclamed " Mrs. - you aren't moral".

This is my example of how this election has divided our country, "Out of the mouths of babes".

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

Quote: (Originally Posted by whitebird)

Some time ago, when several of us on this board were pleading for peace in this world, one of the people posting on this thread responded to my post with the quote "Better their children dead than ours".

I don't believe I will ever forget those words. They shocked me to the core of my being. And I know that the person using those words considers themselves a Christian.

I was raised a Christian, so I will use Jesus and his teachings to make my point, though I believe there are many truths in many religions.

If Jesus were walking the earth today, would he support the killing of children and innocents, rationalizing that the end justifies the means?

One of the children that I work with asked me who I voted for, I replied that I had voted for Kerry. Her eyes got wide, and she proclamed " Mrs. - you aren't moral".

This is my example of how this election has divided our country, "Out of the mouths of babes".

WWJD? That is the age old question. In the Old Testament God was a vengeful God. An eye for an eye. Also turn the other cheek. What do you do after you've turned both?

[whitebird]

Mr.CreedFreak TN, how ironic that you are the first to respond to my post, since it was you who said "Better their children dead, than ours".

Twist your rational any way you want, but I ask again would Jesus have agreed to the killing of children?

[RMadd]

Quote: (Originally Posted by whitebird)

If Jesus were walking the earth today, would he support the killing of children and innocents, rationalizing that the end justifies the means?

that said, what's your take on Saddam Hussein? How about Osama bin Laden organizing a plot to drive 4 passenger jets into symbols of our country?

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

Quote: (Originally Posted by whitebird)

Mr.CreedFreak TN, how ironic that you are the first to respond to my post, since it was you who said "Better their children dead, than ours".

Twist your rational any way you want, but I ask again would Jesus have agreed to the killing of children?

Their is no nice way in a war to say it. I'd rather no child or anyone for that matter get killed, but unfortunately that is not the case. What I was meaning by that was simply the war for now is over there, we are here living our daily lives in peace for the most part. I don't want it to come over here and harm us again. Another thing to think about, they have a show like we have here similar to Sesame Street did you know that their main character is a child suicide bomber? They have different beliefs, we have different beliefs. Yes I do consider myself a Christian , however I'm not without fault. Are you? You say you voted for Kerry , thats great atleast you voted. You also talked about me saying better their children than ours, however you supported a man who believes in abortion, isn't that killing a child. What is the difference? For Stem Cell research to help cure disease, but yet it takes the life of an unborn. I'm not trying to start anything with anyone I'm just voicing my opinions as everyone else.

[Ann Allusion]

Quote:

WWJD? That is the age old question. In the Old Testament God was a vengeful God. An eye for an eye. Also turn the other cheek. What do you do after you've turned both?

the key words in your post are "IN THE OLD TESTAMENT"...before the coming of the teachings of the Christ...and eye for an eye was the law of the land, and an eye for an eye, only adds fuel to the fires of war...but it was thru Christ's teachings we learned to turn the other cheek and to build on a foundation of LOVE and UNDERSTANDING...

You asked, "WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU'VE TURNED BOTH?"...you can turn your cheek once again...and continue to love your enemy unconditionally...that is what i believe Jesus was teaching...because "death" has no sting for those that believe...

Would Jesus approve of what is happening in the world today?...i believe that God/Jesus know quite well what is going on...we, as human beings can exercise our free will in the choices we make, but God is the only judge of what any of us (including Hussain) do, with that free will...we cannot second guess how Jesus/God receives what is going on...we can only speak for ourselves.

[whitebird]

My "Take"? I believe that it was a horror.

But I believe that if Bush had united the world and it's countries for peace, instead of "A War On Terror", the direction of this planet would be positive and progressive. I see our country regressing toward hate and prejudice.

Killing, in the name of peace. Does our country truly believe that this can be a Christian concept?

[Steve]

Quote: (Originally Posted by whitebird)

Killing, in the name of peace. Does our country truly believe that this can be a Christian concept?

So do you disagree with WWI and WWII ?

[whitebird]

Steve, I can see this subject circling around and around upon it self. Shocking horrors have been committed in the past, and I believe we should learn and remember the past, but I am living and breathing in a time where there are tools for peace, and I believe they should be used.

[Steve]

Quote: (Originally Posted by whitebird)

Steve, I can see this subject circling around and around upon it self. Shocking horrors have been committed in the past, and I believe we should learn and remember the past, but I am living and breathing in a time where there are tools for peace, and I believe they should be used.

How do you propose we deal with terrorism, Saddam Hussein, etc. then? I'm just curious... because there's the "utopia" idea and there's reality. It's easy to say we should work with the rest of the world and not fight because fighting's wrong. However in reality, that just doesn't cut it. Try telling a suicide bomber that we should all love one another.

[whitebird]

Steve, I'm not perfect, and I don't have all the answers to your questions. All I truly know for a fact is this, war and hatred begets the same.

On this board and thread I have seen a division between countries, name calling, and cruelty. People purposefully hurting others.

I know that this is not the way, and I believe others do too. Many minds and many hearts from all over the world can help to create unity in our world, and with that, a start toward peace.

I for one am willing to try here. I will not express hatred, I will not condemn other countries as a whole, and I will not fight on this thread.

A small start, I know.

Anyone care to join me?

[bgivens33]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve)

Lithium, did you read any of the previous links I posted regarding the link between 9/11 and Saddam, and the truth about Moore's movie? Because it seems like you didn't. If you don't want to be open to other information, it's not worth debating you because you'll simply keep referring to your false information.

I did and got quite a laugh out of it. First off, you posted a Deroy Murdock article... red flag immediately. He is a hard core conservative, of COURSE he's going to back Cheney/Bush. The second one seemed to be some post in a forum... why should I believe her?? She gave no credentials, no evidence, it was just some random person. The fact is, no real evidence has been found linking al-Qaida and Iraq in reference to the attacks according to the 9/11 Commission.

As for how to deal with terrorism, that seems to be the question of the decade so far. I don't know the answer. I will say this though, we are not fighting a tangible enemy. If we destroy every last member of al-Qaida the war won't be over. We are fighting an idea that America is evil. An idea the enemy has repeatedly shown they will die for. And I don't think invading another country, as bad of a history as they have, on a wild-goose chase for WMD is a good idea. America is further ingraining this hatred into those people and they will stop at nothing until they inflict harm on this land.

[Torn Daredevil]

Whitebird, you really need to re-think your political stance, as a Christian.

I am a Christian and have morals.

You, as a Christian, support candidates who think it's ok for people to kill babies that are unwanted by the millions, but don't think it's ok to go after the terrorists who kill many, many innocent people each year? It seems as though someone is a hypocrite.

Also, you support candidates who think the government, through our taxes, should give those who will not work a free ride through life and handouts on every corner. Besides this holding those people down and not allowing them advance on their own, this is certainly not what Jesus had in mind. I don't think Jesus ever would promote helping complete lazy-asses. I understand there are some who can do nothing for themselves, and we should help those people, but there aren't many.

And also, I studied scripture everyday for 4 years straight in school, and WWJD is the worst thing we can teach out of the Bible. You are not saved through your works. You are saved through belief in the death and resurrection of Christ for our sins.

[OneOmerta]

Quote:

OneOmerta, I assume you mean those of me with the General?

I actually looked at all of them, liked the NYC ones. Of course...the ones with the General were cool too! And tarzan is a cute dog lol.

[RMadd]

Quote: (Originally Posted by whitebird)

Killing, in the name of peace. Does our country truly believe that this can be a Christian concept?

it's not as though our intent was to go in and kill a whole slew of people. sure people died and all, but it's a war: one that was aimed to liberate an oppressed people. had we, in Desert Storm, kept on to Baghdad, we wouldn't have to worry about it today. in my opinion, it's selfish on our part to act as though our troops' deaths are the most absolutely horrible thing ever. yes, it's bad, but how many more people--Iraqis, alone--would have died if Saddam were permitted to stay in power? genocide just ain't cool. i know all the great dictators do it: hitler, stalin, amin, castro etc... but that's something that we simply cannot tolerate. you call it killing in the name of peace, i say it's sacrificing for a better future for others. we've got it good here, why not try and share, even just a little bit, what it's like to be free?