More Conflict

[metalchris25]

^Wow, you just said what I have been trying to say since this thing began, but didn't know how.^

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by metalchris25)

^Wow, you just said what I have been trying to say since this thing began, but didn't know how.^

thanks Chris. i expected to be called a nut or who knows what

[metalchris25]

It sounded perfectly rational to me, and if that makes you nuts, then I'll be wearing a straightjacket with ya.

[bilal]

i agree with you Chris.......it seems we can talk endlessly about all the politics and blaming.....but i agree with every thing Eusibio has said......and i guess we need only honesty in all this crisis situation.....it seems that there is a sweet calmness in all the proposed madness......may be if it is to lead to a day when we both are standing on opposite sides of the trench....and ready to charge at each other.....(let just suppose).....i guess we would be doing that with a little smile of affirmation on our faces...cause this somehow seems to be the only anti sence-perseption reality we can come up with......... (i am not sure if many people will understand what we are saying...but it makes perfect sence to me.....)

[eusebioCBR]

^well spoken, that part about the trench, very profound

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by bilal)

but chase....i think Hizbollah is protecting Lebnon.....and if they need to wear civilian stuff......they will.....and most of the people is hizbolla are actually civilians...ai.e as per my knowledge......tell me....you must be seeing this as disgusting.....but i think its PATRIOTISM......cause Hizbollah is working for the will of the people of lebnon...where as Israel is the occupaying army......although its the main purpose of Israel to week down Hizbollah....by naming it terrorsit....throwing leaflets over the cities saying that Hizbollah is responsible for the people WE killed.........and i guess this pointing of civilian clothes isj ust one of the these tactics.........Israel is in no way welcomed by the people of lebnon......if it wasnt Hizbollah standing in the way....ISrael would have occupied lebnon once again........now u might say that its only due to this resistance that people are dying...then tell me.....which country in the world will let an oppresing army occupy them......its inhumane.......


i was seeing interview of a beruit citizen in news....and he was saying that for most of the civilians of beruit...it was a dream that Israel will send in its ground forces......so that theycan take theri revenge for the crimes of Israel against theri forefathers and their brothers in Palestine...........so that they could feel them in theri range and do what ever they can to get their hands on them......so what civillians you are talking about....might just be some doctors or busnessmen...but know turned fighters

its funny why do people see patriotism as acceptable ony for them selves and not for the others....if two countries are at war.....soldliers shooting and dying are driven by one emotion..... i,e PATRIOTISM.......but fail to see it for the other and reserve the right for it over themselves.......let say if some country invades my country, i am a working accountant....but i will make sure if i have to blow up my self to stop the envading army..i wont think twice....and i am sure CHase..you wont think twice to blow up your self to stop an occupying army , to save your country.....the country you love the most.........but one of the ugly sides of war is that both sides fail to see Patriotism in each ohter eyes....and reserves it only for them selves.....Israel on the other hand has used civilians as humun shield....i saw once on BBC....when Israel put some captured civiilans...locked em up in a container...and lifted the container with the help of giant crane...over above GAZA skyies.....and asked militants to surrender or the people will be killed....s.o what i think is that this is just one of the things to distract the matter from its main purpose.......

i hope you will respond to correct me if i am wrong

Hezbollah is not protecting Lebanon. Hezbollah is making Lebanon a target. Many civilized nations recognize Hezbollah as a terrorist group and many nations are currently trying to rid the world of terror. Lebanon has a military... and their purpose is to protect the Lebanese people. But you know what? Syria occupied Lebanon for years... and I don't remember Hezbollah doing a damn thing about protecting the Lebanese people when another Islamic nation was occupying Lebanon and assassinating political leaders. Where was Hezbollah then?
Anti-semitism, to me, isn't patriotic. Nor is exploiting your host nation and its people. It's not just Israel who believes that Hezbollah is a terrorist network. Here is a list of nations who do: The United States, Canada, Israel, the United Kingdom, Netherlands, Australia, and the European Union lists Hezbollah's senior intelligence officer (Imad Mugniyah) as a terrorist. It expresses support and sympathy for the activities of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Islamist groups responsible for suicide attacks and armed resistance in Israel and the Palestinian territories. Hezbollah will, at least, draw distinctions between which types of terrorist attacks it supports... they're more apt to support terrorism against government and military targets. Nevertheless, in most instances, Hezbollah will have support coming from Al Qaeda.Ayman al-Zawahiri, Al Qaeda's deputy leader, called for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Zionists and join the fighting in Lebanon.
If Hezbollah wasn't in Lebanon... Israel would have no reason to invade. Had Hezbollah NOT kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and killed three... this conflict would not be happening. Provoking Israel, a nation who will ONLY respond to terrorism with military force, is one of the biggest mistakes one can make. Now look at the state of Lebanon following Hezbollah's decision. They continuously put the Lebanese people in the middle of their conflict. They operate from neighborhoods where families live, hospitals, mosques, apartment buildings, and other civilian areas.
You want to know what I think patriotism is? I think patriotism was witnessed during Lebanon's Cedar Revolution, in which the people of Lebanon protested the occupation of Syria following the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. That, my friend, is patriotic. Patriotism isn't having some non-uniformed, terrorist group go snatch a couple Israeli soldiers and hold them hostage. Patriotism isn't antagonism. That is clearly the case here. Inappropriate antagonism.

Below are actual photos of Muslims who marched in the streets of London during their recent Religion of Peace Demonstration. This is what's wrong with Islam... the fact that such a worldwide religion has been hijacked by people like this.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../image0011.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../image0022.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../image0033.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../image0044.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../image0055.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../image0066.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../image0077.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../image0088.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../image0099.jpg

By the way, I have nothing but respect for you Bilal... as well as Islam and all sane Muslims. I just thought I should make that clear lol.

[bilal]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Hezbollah is not protecting Lebanon. Hezbollah is making Lebanon a target. Many civilized nations recognize Hezbollah as a terrorist group and many nations are currently trying to rid the world of terror. Lebanon has a military... and their purpose is to protect the Lebanese people. But you know what? Syria occupied Lebanon for years... and I don't remember Hezbollah doing a damn thing about protecting the Lebanese people when another Islamic nation was occupying Lebanon and assassinating political leaders. Where was Hezbollah then?
Anti-semitism, to me, isn't patriotic. Nor is exploiting your host nation and its people. It's not just Israel who believes that Hezbollah is a terrorist network. Here is a list of nations who do: The United States, Canada, Israel, the United Kingdom, Netherlands, Australia, and the European Union lists Hezbollah's senior intelligence officer (Imad Mugniyah) as a terrorist. It expresses support and sympathy for the activities of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Islamist groups responsible for suicide attacks and armed resistance in Israel and the Palestinian territories. Hezbollah will, at least, draw distinctions between which types of terrorist attacks it supports... they're more apt to support terrorism against government and military targets. Nevertheless, in most instances, Hezbollah will have support coming from Al Qaeda.Ayman al-Zawahiri, Al Qaeda's deputy leader, called for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Zionists and join the fighting in Lebanon.
If Hezbollah wasn't in Lebanon... Israel would have no reason to invade. Had Hezbollah NOT kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and killed three... this conflict would not be happening. Provoking Israel, a nation who will ONLY respond to terrorism with military force, is one of the biggest mistakes one can make. Now look at the state of Lebanon following Hezbollah's decision. They continuously put the Lebanese people in the middle of their conflict. They operate from neighborhoods where families live, hospitals, mosques, apartment buildings, and other civilian areas.
You want to know what I think patriotism is? I think patriotism was witnessed during Lebanon's Cedar Revolution, in which the people of Lebanon protested the occupation of Syria following the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. That, my friend, is patriotic. Patriotism isn't having some non-uniformed, terrorist group go snatch a couple Israeli soldiers and hold them hostage. Patriotism isn't antagonism. That is clearly the case here. Inappropriate antagonism.

Below are actual photos of Muslims who marched in the streets of London during their recent Religion of Peace Demonstration. This is what's wrong with Islam... the fact that such a worldwide religion has been hijacked by people like this.

By the way, I have nothing but respect for you Bilal... as well as Islam and all sane Muslims. I just thought I should make that clear lol.

Chase....your right......it seems to me that know Hizbollah is capitalising on the situation and is winning the support of not just lebnese people but muslims world over.......but what is making it easy for them is the aggression of Israel's response.....so far 1000 civiialins have been murdered by Israel.......and i think it is only working in favour of Hizbollah.....i never said that i suppoort Hizbollah or any network that have been accused of terrorism...but i was just pointing out that the situations built by Israel and US is never in favour of peace.......it seems that are only adding to the terrorism rather than sincerly trying to get rid of it.......these deaths of civilians wont be forgotten.......

Israel made worth the death of its 2 captured soldiers by destroying a whole city.........killing 1000 civiilans....but still ...no one will question the death of 1000 murdered civilllians but only the 2 soldiers captured...its only because Israel...with its force and support....can show the worth of theri lives....where as no one in the neighbouring country can prove the worth of 1000s of civillians and devestated lives.......it seems to me that only voice heard in the present time is the voice of force ....i wonder if after 100 years.....what the people of that time will think of us......what ever they would think....they will never say that we were CIVILISED...... lol...... cause we still live in time...where might is right......where 2 lives worth more than 1000 cuase one group can prove it with force.........

a bit of HISTORY OF SYRIA and LEBNON


France occupied the area now consisting Syria and lebnon in world war I ( occupy is probably not the right word......i should say won the ground....cause the concept of nation and independence is prety recent one.....i should say that my country PAKISTAN got independence from British rule in 1947...much after world war II.....can u believe it...the worlds most reconginsed democracy was an occupier of a foreing country only50 years back!!!!!......so this concept of national independence and rigts is only a recent one........just we are born in this time, we cannot assume it to be there from the inception.....) so it was under french rule till world war II till france got itself captured by Germany.........british fearing French stronghold over this area......and fearing that it might go deeper into egypt........attacked beriut too.....but could;nt captrue it........at the end of the World war II in 1948....french with drew........from lebnon.....


1948.....same year....when Israel started occupying palestinian territories......hence starting the ever so ugly conflict......lebnon.....presided by a Christian president......was not in fovour and attacked the newly errected jewish county but failed........but lebnon got filled with millions of palestinain refugeess.....


your question of SYrian occupation being Muslim???


i quote it from wikipedia site......that tells that Syria was run by Catholic administration....w.hich was fearing that lebnon might fall in the hands of palestinian domination.....and attaked to save the administartion that was pro israel......so you will see...that Syrian occupation of Lebnon....was not islamic ....but Anti Islamic......influence mostly by Jewish sentiments...

Quote:

In June, 1976 Syria sent 40,000 troops into Lebanon to prevent the Maronite militias from being overrun by Palestinian Ezzat forces. Together the Syrians and Maronites pushed the Palestinians out of Beirut and into southern Lebanon. Over the next few years, shifting political climates resulted in Syria being allied with the Palestinians and some of the Maronites allied with Israel. Syrian forces remained in Lebanon, effectively dominating its government until 2005.

source = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon

about the maronites being non-muslims...primarily jews..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maronite


and i ask you how many times did Israel itself attacked and occupied lebnon...... first in 1978, but was asked to withdraw by United nations security council....... but attacks kept coming from the palestinan forces from lebnon grounds...so Israel again attacked lebnon in 1982 ........sound similar to current crisis too.....anyways.....this secound occupation by ISRAEL was ordered by Areil shron himself........and was a bloody attack that killed 1000s of innocent people.....some i quote

Sabra and Shatila massacre .....in sep 1982 that attacked the Palestinian refugee camps.......it is estimated that upto 3500 palestinian refugess where massacred by the israeli invadors source " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

areil shron is still accused of leding such attack and for the masacres it commited.......still no justice

that led to the formaiton of HIZBOLLAH...in the year 1982.......so your claim of Syrain occupation being Muslim is wrong....infact......you totally ignored the presence of Israel in all the syrian occupations...and latter attacks and time to time Israeli occupations.....not to mention the massacres .........and what really led to the formation of HIZbollah....and many countless factions fighting for the rights.......what made them terrrorist......Israel last withdrew from lebnon onlly in the year 2000.........so lebnon is not a new place for israel........


your picture of Cedar Revolution

i cant really figure out how Cedar Revolution in the year 2005, is in your point patriotic....when it is blamed that mossad was responsible for it.........i quote from wikipedia site

Quote:

Some suggestions point to Israel's Mossad and/or the USA's CIA involvement, suggesting the aim was to inflame the Syrian-Lebanese situation and to lay the groundwork for the 2006 Israeli invasion by forcing a Syrian withdrawal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon


about some pictures you posted.....its totally out of context........its just again some misconceptions about Islam and labbelliing every islamic leader to be not following the Islam and being at terrorist....as i said before......USA and Israel wont have peace with muslim world by killing each and every one of us who they dont like.....it dont work like that......its a bitter deal.....kill one.....and get 2 for free........i dont totall regect you view of some false leaders portraying islam wrongly to the people....i hope you have watched the movie SYRIANA of george Cloney........i agree wit hte movie........ but these picture are just besided the point.......i dont want to post much pictures in against those you posted

[bilal]

a must see.... the things pointed out by Galloway the Respected MP are quite clear and obvious

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/vi...060806,00.html


Galloway is an ex-Labour Party member, but he teamed up with the Socialist Party after his expulsion from the Labour Party on the charges that he caused a dispute in the party regarding Blair's policy on Iraq in 2003, when he called Blair's government a "lie Machine" and went out and made comments such that the British soldiers should "refuse to obey illegal orders" by the Blair government. [Source: Wikipedia]

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by bilal)

Chase....your right......it seems to me that know Hizbollah is capitalising on the situation and is winning the support of not just lebnese people but muslims world over.......but what is making it easy for them is the aggression of Israel's response.....so far 1000 civiialins have been murdered by Israel.......and i think it is only working in favour of Hizbollah.....i never said that i suppoort Hizbollah or any network that have been accused of terrorism...but i was just pointing out that the situations built by Israel and US is never in favour of peace.......it seems that are only adding to the terrorism rather than sincerly trying to get rid of it.......these deaths of civilians wont be forgotten.......

Israel made worth the death of its 2 captured soldiers by destroying a whole city.........killing 1000 civiilans....but still ...no one will question the death of 1000 murdered civilllians but only the 2 soldiers captured...its only because Israel...with its force and support....can show the worth of theri lives....where as no one in the neighbouring country can prove the worth of 1000s of civillians and devestated lives.......it seems to me that only voice heard in the present time is the voice of force ....i wonder if after 100 years.....what the people of that time will think of us......what ever they would think....they will never say that we were CIVILISED...... lol...... cause we still live in time...where might is right......where 2 lives worth more than 1000 cuase one group can prove it with force.........

a bit of HISTORY OF SYRIA and LEBNON


France occupied the area now consisting Syria and lebnon in world war I ( occupy is probably not the right word......i should say won the ground....cause the concept of nation and independence is prety recent one.....i should say that my country PAKISTAN got independence from British rule in 1947...much after world war II.....can u believe it...the worlds most reconginsed democracy was an occupier of a foreing country only50 years back!!!!!......so this concept of national independence and rigts is only a recent one........just we are born in this time, we cannot assume it to be there from the inception.....) so it was under french rule till world war II till france got itself captured by Germany.........british fearing French stronghold over this area......and fearing that it might go deeper into egypt........attacked beriut too.....but could;nt captrue it........at the end of the World war II in 1948....french with drew........from lebnon.....


1948.....same year....when Israel started occupying palestinian territories......hence starting the ever so ugly conflict......lebnon.....presided by a Christian president......was not in fovour and attacked the newly errected jewish county but failed........but lebnon got filled with millions of palestinain refugeess.....


your question of SYrian occupation being Muslim???


i quote it from wikipedia site......that tells that Syria was run by Catholic administration....w.hich was fearing that lebnon might fall in the hands of palestinian domination.....and attaked to save the administartion that was pro israel......so you will see...that Syrian occupation of Lebnon....was not islamic ....but Anti Islamic......influence mostly by Jewish sentiments...




source = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon

about the maronites being non-muslims...primarily jews..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maronite


and i ask you how many times did Israel itself attacked and occupied lebnon...... first in 1978, but was asked to withdraw by United nations security council....... but attacks kept coming from the palestinan forces from lebnon grounds...so Israel again attacked lebnon in 1982 ........sound similar to current crisis too.....anyways.....this secound occupation by ISRAEL was ordered by Areil shron himself........and was a bloody attack that killed 1000s of innocent people.....some i quote

Sabra and Shatila massacre .....in sep 1982 that attacked the Palestinian refugee camps.......it is estimated that upto 3500 palestinian refugess where massacred by the israeli invadors source " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

areil shron is still accused of leding such attack and for the masacres it commited.......still no justice

that led to the formaiton of HIZBOLLAH...in the year 1982.......so your claim of Syrain occupation being Muslim is wrong....infact......you totally ignored the presence of Israel in all the syrian occupations...and latter attacks and time to time Israeli occupations.....not to mention the massacres .........and what really led to the formation of HIZbollah....and many countless factions fighting for the rights.......what made them terrrorist......Israel last withdrew from lebnon onlly in the year 2000.........so lebnon is not a new place for israel........


your picture of Cedar Revolution

i cant really figure out how Cedar Revolution in the year 2005, is in your point patriotic....when it is blamed that mossad was responsible for it.........i quote from wikipedia site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon


about some pictures you posted.....its totally out of context........its just again some misconceptions about Islam and labbelliing every islamic leader to be not following the Islam and being at terrorist....as i said before......USA and Israel wont have peace with muslim world by killing each and every one of us who they dont like.....it dont work like that......its a bitter deal.....kill one.....and get 2 for free........i dont totall regect you view of some false leaders portraying islam wrongly to the people....i hope you have watched the movie SYRIANA of george Cloney........i agree wit hte movie........ but these picture are just besided the point.......i dont want to post much pictures in against those you posted

Syria is an Islamic country that occupied another primarily Islamic nation (Lebanon). Where was the Hezbollah saviors when Syria fostered the assassination of a beloved former Lebanese prime minister? I sure as hell didn't see them shooting rockets across the border into Syria. They didn't seem to put up much of a fight. Assad and his father never gave a shit about Lebanon and that's the sad truth.

[bilal]

Chase..i think you are again confusing couple of things together...


source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

Quote:

It is widely believed that Hafez al-Assad, who was president of Syria from 1971 to 2000, and Hezbollah were closely linked; this did not significantly affect his relations with the rest of the world. Bashar al-Assad, his son and successor, has been subjected to sanctions by the U.S. due to (among other things, such as occupying Lebanon) his continued support for Hezbollah, which it views as a terrorist organization. However, on March 3, 2005, United States President George W. Bush and his administration stated that it would consider Hezbollah legitimate if it disarmed, but also said that this did not represent a change in their view of the organization, which is unlikely to do so.[citation needed]

In an interview on Al-Arabiya TV in Dubai, former Hezbollah Secretary-General Subhi Al-Tufeili said [81] Hezbollah definitely fosters its relations with the Syrians, but Hezbollah's real leadership is 'the rule of the jurisprudence'.

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by bilal)

Chase..i think you are again confusing couple of things together...


source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

I never said that they were linked, did I? I merely said that Hezbollah didn't put a fight when Syria occupied Lebanon.