cold hard truth

[GeeK_2004]

Quote: (Originally Posted by shunammite)

A great idea Stapp had, hard to live by...don't put down one to raise another...we can hardly help comparing things and deciding which is "best"...

But I don't think Stapp would have gotten where he is without Tremonti...and vice versa...they both needed each other...and now maybe they are freer to express themselves apart. I hope it will be ok, good even, for both of them.

Those who were more into the guitar riffs and heaviness will prefer Tremonti, those who were more into the spiritual self-searching self-helping will stay with Stapp...I'm in the latter camp I guess.

But I respect Tremonti tremendously and plan to buy the cd.

And I want them to remain appreciative of each other...and maybe work together again, some day.

[Rune]

I would first like to start by saying that the title of this thread should be changed to "Cold Hard Opinion" because it is nothing but that. If you read the responses to this thread you can plainly see that obviously not everyone thinks the same way.

I'm going to state my opinion while trying not to insult those pro stapp bastards.

I think overall, from a musical standpoint, not just focusing on one instrument or another (and yes i consider vocals an instrument) i think Alter Bridge is a much tighter sound overall then stapp is.

If you want to make an argument over Myles voice, i can make the same argument over the entire musical accompaniment with Relearn Love.

Honestly i can understand why people like stapp, he does have a very PASSIONATE voice, but they also have to respect the fact that what Myles may lack in passion, he makes up for considerably with SKILL. I guaruntee you with the way Myles is singing there will be very few tour dates canceled due to voice problems like stapp had.

The way i look at it is this: i've recorded in a studio before, i know what it's like, most people do not. When you record a song, you do not sing/play it once and everything is perfect, and that's a rap (unless you're dream theatre). Most of the times, especially if a person is a perfectionist, and even if they are not perfectionist, you still end up playing parts several times over just to get them sounding better.

I personally recorded two extremely emotional and passionate songs (rock, not emo, do NOT kid yourself there), but i also sang them over, and over, and over again until i was happy with the sound. The only problem with doing that is that it tends to lose a lot of the passion that you would get....say....from a LIVE performance perhaps?

All i'm saying is to the people bashing Myles, wait until you hear him live before you cast your final judgement.

Also, on the subject of Stapp, i have listened to Relearn Love several times, and i consider this an opposite argument of what the Myles Bashers have.

Myles bashers (for the most part) agree that the music in AB's songs is tight, but Myles voice isn't great (of course i strongly disagree here), my counter argument for Stapp's work is that it is a good voice singing a poor song. Take that however you will, but we all know stapp is capable of singing well, but the song just flat out sucks (IMHO of course).

Anyways, i'm almost certain Myles live sound will be amazing. Honestly, Myles is a better vocalist than stapp purely based on talent and technique. Maybe Myles chooses not to rasp his voice and throat to hell like stapp does, but honestly i think it's a better choice to lose a little of the edge so that you can still speak 20 years later. (and that's why stapp had to cancel tour dates, if you keep singing that way you will destroy your vocal chords)

I see it as Stapp's loss in this case, AB's music has evolved considerably from Creed days, Mark has become an incredible (or more incredible anyways) guitarist, and Flip has also gotten a LOT better (you may not have noticed, but all his beats are much more creative and solid), and Brian is as good as ever.

AB is purely a collaboration of excellent musicians, Stapp is just a singer singing poor songs with a backup band and that will never measure up to the combined emotion of an entire band playing their own songs.

Bottom line: it's all about enthusiasm and showmanship.


That's my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth

[musiclover291]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rune)

I would first like to start by saying that the title of this thread should be changed to "Cold Hard Opinion" because it is nothing but that. If you read the responses to this thread you can plainly see that obviously not everyone thinks the same way.

I'm going to state my opinion while trying not to insult those pro stapp bastards.

I think overall, from a musical standpoint, not just focusing on one instrument or another (and yes i consider vocals an instrument) i think Alter Bridge is a much tighter sound overall then stapp is.

If you want to make an argument over Myles voice, i can make the same argument over the entire musical accompaniment with Relearn Love.

Honestly i can understand why people like stapp, he does have a very PASSIONATE voice, but they also have to respect the fact that what Myles may lack in passion, he makes up for considerably with SKILL. I guaruntee you with the way Myles is singing there will be very few tour dates canceled due to voice problems like stapp had.

The way i look at it is this: i've recorded in a studio before, i know what it's like, most people do not. When you record a song, you do not sing/play it once and everything is perfect, and that's a rap (unless you're dream theatre). Most of the times, especially if a person is a perfectionist, and even if they are not perfectionist, you still end up playing parts several times over just to get them sounding better.

I personally recorded two extremely emotional and passionate songs (rock, not emo, do NOT kid yourself there), but i also sang them over, and over, and over again until i was happy with the sound. The only problem with doing that is that it tends to lose a lot of the passion that you would get....say....from a LIVE performance perhaps?

All i'm saying is to the people bashing Myles, wait until you hear him live before you cast your final judgement.

Also, on the subject of Stapp, i have listened to Relearn Love several times, and i consider this an opposite argument of what the Myles Bashers have.

Myles bashers (for the most part) agree that the music in AB's songs is tight, but Myles voice isn't great (of course i strongly disagree here), my counter argument for Stapp's work is that it is a good voice singing a poor song. Take that however you will, but we all know stapp is capable of singing well, but the song just flat out sucks (IMHO of course).

Anyways, i'm almost certain Myles live sound will be amazing. Honestly, Myles is a better vocalist than stapp purely based on talent and technique. Maybe Myles chooses not to rasp his voice and throat to hell like stapp does, but honestly i think it's a better choice to lose a little of the edge so that you can still speak 20 years later. (and that's why stapp had to cancel tour dates, if you keep singing that way you will destroy your vocal chords)

I see it as Stapp's loss in this case, AB's music has evolved considerably from Creed days, Mark has become an incredible (or more incredible anyways) guitarist, and Flip has also gotten a LOT better (you may not have noticed, but all his beats are much more creative and solid), and Brian is as good as ever.

AB is purely a collaboration of excellent musicians, Stapp is just a singer singing poor songs with a backup band and that will never measure up to the combined emotion of an entire band playing their own songs.

Bottom line: it's all about enthusiasm and showmanship.


That's my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth

In response to your 2 cents Stapp will do fine on his own. His song speaks for itself he is on a different path. The lyrics are reflection of forgiveness and his faith. That is what drew alot of people to Creed. Sure he will lose some fans who are pro Alterbridge but he will gain new one's. Music is not his entire life he has a son that he loves dearly and business ventures. I think he is at a point he doesn't have to be number one. He had great success and for him a stable happy life is what is important to him. He will always have a following because he was blessed with a gift to write great lyrics. As for as Alterbridge I think your correct Mark, Flip and Brian are at the top of their game maybe for them they still have a need to be the number one rock act in the world that is their choice and the fans will decide whether they like them or not. However, in music it's not always about the music it is also about can you connect with the audience. Do you have that special something and you may not agree with me but Stapp has that. Every board I am always on any discussion about Stapp whether positive or negative always gets the most responses and for everyone who thinks he sucks or hate him there is someone who love's him in such a passionate way that you can't explain it and that is what Stapp has it's that certain quality and as for Myles time will only tell. On the board I have read either people love his voice or detest it's just a matter of personal choice.

[JasonPBrown]

Musiclover291 explained what I was thinking perfectly. Scott just has more passion and spirituality in his singing. I'm sorry that I came of so one-sided and negative to everybody on my first post. But I'm just really sick of everybody bashing Scott for everything. I really feel that alot of singers have talent like Myles but only a few have an inner strength to touch people and Scott has that. Like Musiclover291 said and from my original post I really think that Mark and the others wanted to just go out full force all the time. Scott on the other hand wanted more of a complete life and the two did not agree. They used the excuse of Scott's temporary troubles rather than the issue that they just did not want to comprimise. But again as others have said that is just my opinion.

[shunammite]

Jason I 100% agree with you about Stapp's unusual "spirituality"...but I really think a healthy being needs both kinds of input...and it depends on where you are in life...and I can understand some people preferring a more controlled performer, when they are looking for something to feed their soul...and to others all that "control" seems just like not caring...

As for me, I'm kind of "out of control" myself...and feel drawn to the "out of control" artists out there...it's like being cured by the hair of the dog that bit you or fight fire with fire or something...Hetfield and Leon Russell are also great "calming" sources to me and they are both WILD MEN...

I'm kind of worried (stupid me worry is stupid but there it is) about how this song will come off on Leno though...I mean, you can't really smile during any of it...and no headbanging, no sex appeal...all the things that overcome resistance, he can't use them...for this song, imo.

But it's a great song, really speaks to me and I love the sound also.

[Dogstar]

First off, the original post said Scott Stapp made Creed or something to that effect. I disagree. Initially it was the four of them, then the three of them who made Creed what it was. I get tired of people thinking only the singer makes a band. Not so. It was the chemistry, passion and dynamics of ALL of them with their friendships and creative relationships to one another that led to the beautiful music.
I may be wrong, but I get the feeling that it wouldn't have mattered who fronted AB because some of those who love Stapp wouldn't accept anyone besides Stapp. It's time to move on, unfortunately.

And Rune, I agree, I'm reserving judgment until I see them live, though I like some of what I hear from AB, and if you listen to Myles' previous band, the Mayfield Four, there are a number of songs that send chills down my spine because of his beautiful singing. The man flat-out can sing and it may be that he lost something in singing someone else's lyrics on the AB stuff, but either way, I'm looking forward to seeing AB live and watching what they can do.

As for Relearn Love, I was thoroughly unimpressed. Yes, Scott's voice sounded fine, and the lyrics are really good, but the music did absolutely nothing for me. The structure of song just was boring and at the end it was all over the place, trying to sound hard after starting off as what sounded like easy listening to me. And for me, the music has to grab me before the lyrics, otherwise, I won't bother listening to it.

[Bridge of Clay]

Just notice this: Myles has been with Mark, Flip and Brian for less than a year. This passion of Stapp when in Creed, it's due they were together since '95.

The chemestry is in AB, but it's not working on its full potential YET. It takes some time. This tour will be great for them to get to know each other, it's like a sports team in the beginning of the season.

I bet the last concerts from the tour will be way better than the first ones, once they will envolve and improve. You'll see it on their next record.

[musiclover291]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

First off, the original post said Scott Stapp made Creed or something to that effect. I disagree. Initially it was the four of them, then the three of them who made Creed what it was. I get tired of people thinking only the singer makes a band. Not so. It was the chemistry, passion and dynamics of ALL of them with their friendships and creative relationships to one another that led to the beautiful music.
I may be wrong, but I get the feeling that it wouldn't have mattered who fronted AB because some of those who love Stapp wouldn't accept anyone besides Stapp. It's time to move on, unfortunately.

And Rune, I agree, I'm reserving judgment until I see them live, though I like some of what I hear from AB, and if you listen to Myles' previous band, the Mayfield Four, there are a number of songs that send chills down my spine because of his beautiful singing. The man flat-out can sing and it may be that he lost something in singing someone else's lyrics on the AB stuff, but either way, I'm looking forward to seeing AB live and watching what they can do.

As for Relearn Love, I was thoroughly unimpressed. Yes, Scott's voice sounded fine, and the lyrics are really good, but the music did absolutely nothing for me. The structure of song just was boring and at the end it was all over the place, trying to sound hard after starting off as what sounded like easy listening to me. And for me, the music has to grab me before the lyrics, otherwise, I won't bother listening to it.

At end of the day the public will decide whether they like "Relearn Love " I personally love the song the sound was different and the Tea Party are great I just bought there CD and will buy there new CD when it comes out. So far overall from reading the reaction at AOL the public seem to like the song it's getting a great response. But time will tell we just have to wait for the public response to "Relearn Love" and Alterbridge.

[Bridge of Clay]

it's Alter Bridge, not Alterbridge.

it's a shame RL was released under W-up's pop arm...

[Mulletman]

Alter Bridge picked the worst song to be thier first single. There are better songs in that CD that could have been picked. Myles might have a good range, but his voice is so whiney its uncomfortable to listen to the same song over and over again. Stapp song may have a popish sound - but it is simple and has a beat and rythem. I believe those two things are crucial and important, but thats me.

[Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mulletman)

Stapp song may have a popish sound - but it is simple and has a beat and rythem. I believe those two things are crucial and important, but thats me.

I think Scott took a softer side with this song because of where it was going (on a songs-inspired by CD). Regardless, I love the song. I think Scott did a great job.

I think we'll see him back to rock when his solo CD comes out.

[Agent D]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar)

First off, the original post said Scott Stapp made Creed or something to that effect. I disagree. Initially it was the four of them, then the three of them who made Creed what it was. I get tired of people thinking only the singer makes a band. Not so. It was the chemistry, passion and dynamics of ALL of them with their friendships and creative relationships to one another that led to the beautiful music.
I may be wrong, but I get the feeling that it wouldn't have mattered who fronted AB because some of those who love Stapp wouldn't accept anyone besides Stapp. It's time to move on, unfortunately.

And Rune, I agree, I'm reserving judgment until I see them live, though I like some of what I hear from AB, and if you listen to Myles' previous band, the Mayfield Four, there are a number of songs that send chills down my spine because of his beautiful singing. The man flat-out can sing and it may be that he lost something in singing someone else's lyrics on the AB stuff, but either way, I'm looking forward to seeing AB live and watching what they can do.

As for Relearn Love, I was thoroughly unimpressed. Yes, Scott's voice sounded fine, and the lyrics are really good, but the music did absolutely nothing for me. The structure of song just was boring and at the end it was all over the place, trying to sound hard after starting off as what sounded like easy listening to me. And for me, the music has to grab me before the lyrics, otherwise, I won't bother listening to it.

Amen, Dogstar!

Scott's voice was pretty good on this new song but it's just too all over the place. The structure of the song doesn't seem well thought out. The bridge of the song just comes out of nowhere and seems out of place. I'm hoping his solo album is better.

[Ann Allusion]

Quote:

The structure of the song doesn't seem well thought out. The bridge of the song just comes out of nowhere and seems out of place.

and i've said the same thing about the stuff i have heard from AB..."Open Your Eyes" comes to mind, along with a few other ones.

Bottom line, it all comes down to personal preference. When Creed was together, the supposed "splintered factions" we have now were one, because Creed was one. Now that they are walking separate musical paths...people will accept what appeals to them....some like AB...others, stapp...and maybe even some will like both...all once again personal preference.

[Agent D]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ann Allusion)

and i've said the same thing about the stuff i have heard from AB..."Open Your Eyes" comes to mind, along with a few other ones.

Bottom line, it all comes down to personal preference. When Creed was together, the supposed "splintered factions" we have now were one, because Creed was one. Now that they are walking separate musical paths...people will accept what appeals to them....some like AB...others, stapp...and maybe even some will like both...all once again personal preference.

Ann, you're right about the factions. It was inevitable. However, I disagree with you about the bridge on Open Your Eyes.

I'll continue to support Scott because I still love his voice but this song just isn't all that great. I'm sure his solo album will be better.

[benkenobi]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mulletman)

Alter Bridge picked the worst song to be thier first single. There are better songs in that CD that could have been picked. Myles might have a good range, but his voice is so whiney its uncomfortable to listen to the same song over and over again. Stapp song may have a popish sound - but it is simple and has a beat and rythem. I believe those two things are crucial and important, but thats me.

But if you heard the first radio interview with the band on their acoustic tour, Mark said they specifically picked "Open Your Eyes" as the 1st single so it wouldn't throw old Creed fans out of the loop by hearing something totally different from the Creed sound they had known and loved. As fans adjust to the new sound from the album the singles will become more unique to the new sound of Alter Bridge.

I agree, though, that Stapp still has a great voice if he can keep it in shape. I always believed Creed had to many tour dates too close together that put strain on Scott's voice. He puts so much passion into his singing at every performance that a think his vocals needed more rest between performances.