The Fatal Flaw of Being Religious

[shunammite]

In a dispute on another board, I said:

"I don't have time to set SM straight, granted I should give up, but I can't, you know how it is when you've got the urge to force your views on other people in a bad way, and I've got it, I admit it..."


And SM responded (apparently ignoring my slightly tongue in cheek but ok I was telling the truth too):

Yes, the urge to "force" one's views upon others is a negative, detrimental quality that seems to prosper amongst the deeply religious. It's easily their biggest personality flaw!

And I responded (SM is also Matt) as follows, I think it might be of interest here:

I admit it Matt. When I'm not "religious" I'm STILL "religious", I think it comes from just feeling things so INTENSELY.

But somehow you have to recognize that other people have a right to their own feelings also. That is what "Christ" is to me, to be fully in touch with your own vision, given personally and directly from God Himself and yet considerate of the VARIETY that exists within "God" and thus the DIFFERING PERCEPTIONS of other people. As far as you can. Sometimes it comes down to my way or their way, then someone has to DIE, and David the man after God's own heart was the "bloody man", but the Son of David is the Prince of Peace. (Solomon/Christ). And also to be ALIVE and thus still "malleable", able to change and grow, rather than carved in stone like the idols with no eyes no ears no ability to relate or be a blessing to anyone.

Look every man not on his own things, but ALSO on the things of others, Eph 2:4. It's pretty hard considering two opposite things equally, given our intolerance of "cognitive dissonance". I think we must give preference to our own vision, just enough to avoid "stalemate", I think that "golden mean" is the mathematical formula, 1.618etc. So it never feels good, we are either dissing ourselves or someone else, that is being "crucified" to me, but the vertical part of the cross, the part directed toward Truth, is the longest.

It bugs me no end that some translations remove the "also", the NRSV notably. Thus saying, forget all about yourself and only think of the other person. That is not right, to abandon integrity. It is not love for others to have no love for yourself, the fatal flaw in carelessly thought out "religion".

And contrary to the Bible also, "God forbid that I should justify you, till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me." Job 27:5.

I am the only person in the world who knows this you are so lucky to find me lol, but in the book of Ruth, it is an obvious allegory, only the dumbest of the dumb fail to understand this, "Ruth" is the little human seeking reunion with God, "safety", or "salvation". She has lost her natural husband, and is hanging on to her widow-woman motherinlaw trying to stay alive, two losers supporting each other as best they can. Then lo and behold "Boaz" surfaces, he is KIN to them and RICH AS CROESUS, all is well, but first he has to be sure that her "nearer kinsman" cannot take care of her. There are ten elders watching, "the law", or "Righteousness", they are perfectly useless in making any person feel "all right", because there is an abiding Honesty in all of us, we are all like the princess and the pea, uneasy with ANY FLAW WHATSOEVER. And this "nearer kinsman", I believe is our fellow human beings (all other "religious people" think he is "the law" that is hooey, we are no kin to the law, the law is always and ever AGAINST US, Col 2:14). We go to each one and ask them to perfectly validate us, to see things just as we do, to perfectly agree with us, and IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, as the kinsman says, I would like to, but if I do, then I abandon MY inheritance, MY birthright, what my Creator put ME in charge of. Ruth 4:6.

So, with no other "kinsman" to be our Help, BOAZ is free to act as our "redeemer". And it doesn't mar HIS inheritance, He is the Template of EVERY ONE OF US, being the Fulness of the Godhead in whom is all the wisdom of the Godhead, all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, anything worth a flip in us is in Christ also, and anything not worthy in us, well we don't want to keep it either, burn it off, turn up the flame.

So SM, I forgive you for not agreeing with me. Now if I could only forgive my husband for the same crime. I thought hey he's been through all the stuff I have he should see things the same as me. But it just isn't possible, experience is different for each person, even in the SAME experiences, just because we are each so different to start with.

I think the trouble in "religion" comes when you are TERRIBLY SINCERE. And don't understand it is all just a DEVICE to relieve the LONELINESS that people feel, they invent some kind of agreed-upon standard of significance--and to be meaningful, it has to EXCLUDE SOME PEOPLE, the "flesh" can only understand Good by distinguishing it from the "bad". The flesh is limited in understanding. But the Spirit sees and understands all things, to the pure all things are pure. I'm not claiming purity, I just know the theory.

I was realizing last night, my youngest son is so crazy about movies, well they are "religious experiences", in that two separate beings can sort of have a common shared experience, the movie is like a little "lifetime" and you watch it together and feel "fellowship"--with the people who made the movie also. IF the point of view of the movie overlaps with your own understanding at all. Sometimes some movies make me feel more alone than ever.

And "church". Well, if you can find areas of agreement, it is wonderful to come together with people trying to reach toward Eternity, to think beyond this life for a brief period each week. But it seems to me, before they will embrace you, you have to agree to "forsake all others", to MARRY THEM and rate the rest of the human race as worthless, and I just can't do that anymore. I guess they don't really mean it, they just say it, but I can't even stand to hear people SAY that stuff. To speak that way. I have to stand it though. Or get a divorce. And perhaps endanger the sanity of my youngest son.

Just like you don't tell little kids about the birds and the bees too soon or about death or there's no Santa.

[StappsSaviour]

well obviously SM must have something against Religous people and SM muat learn not to be do discriminative. Thanks for telling us about this, altho, not many ppl will read this. You have cerainly made your point clear and concise to everyone that reads this, and i thank you again for expressing yourself more openly that alot of others on this board. People shold have a lot more admiration towards you instead of negative thoughs or for that matter words. i admire it that you are a believer in the Jesus Chirst and the holy father God and actually stand up for yourself and are heard! that is not a personality flaw and SM doesnt see it like this. Personally, SM, YOU NEED TO GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[StappsSaviour]

AND THAT IS THAT!

[StappsSaviour]

oh i see..... no 1 else knows how to read long posts.........
or its just that no1 else has anything to say........
its not like any1 did any way............. but i changed that!!!!!!!!!!!
so.....i guess.....its just u and me on this one Shunammite!!!!!!!!!

[shunammite]

Thanks so much for reading my LONG POST SS.

I've known SM for quite a while, we were bitter enemies at one point, but I've come to appreciate him because he's one of my few "enemies" who will listen to me and give feedback. And those kinds of enemies are really good friends.

I will tell you right off that I'm OLD (51) and I have a 23 yr old son who is MENTALLY ILL, it was What If that made me a Creed fan, "I've seen the wicked fruit of your vine destroy the man who lacks a strong mind, forked tongues in bitter mouths can cause a man to bleed from the inside out." He no doubt has a "chemical imbalance" (he takes tons of meds) but it was "church teaching" that made him so severely sick, now I realize the AGONY he was in, back as a young adolescent, with his head on the pew in front in "church". Hearing about the "urgency" of "getting out the gospel", and "presenting your body a living sacrifice." He reads the bible ALL DAY LONG IN BED, for Christmas he asked for a new mattress, I kid you not, it's like a vampire in his coffin.

I know the Bible very well and really love it, but I have a LOT OF PROBLEMS with organized religion, but I realize it helps human society hold together, FOR SOME PEOPLE. However for very sensitive honest people, it DRIVES THEM OUT OF THEIR MINDS.

I can't be here all the time, but I will always get back eventually.

[souldancer]

well, actuall I did read the thread. The title caught my eye and stung my heart. Maybe I misinterpreted it. I don't know the SM person, I don't quote the bible, but believe that Jesus is one of the greatest teachers. I really place a distinction between 'religious' vs 'dogmatic' . So, I guess my very fuzzy comment is that ... I don't think that being religious, in and of itself is a flaw. What I see as damaging - are institutions that use control and fear to oppress people, as well as individuals giving in to 'blind faith' and losing their ability to think critically (gift from God) and individually experience that beautiful, personal connection with God, Divinity - whatever someone calls that sense of 'greater than'.

[Bridge of Clay]

coz organized religions are organized by man, not God... so you won´t find a perfect one...

you have to look for it til the day you feel confortable on one of them, seek and you shall find...

[jango]

I find that most internet religious types that "force their opinions upon others" are more argumentative than sincerely religious.

[souldancer]

Welcome back Jango!

[hotforscott]

I know, Jango has been posting a here lately I have noticed. Good to have you back.

[krzycreedbabe]

who is SM? confused bout that