All Star Game 2005 - Page 4

uncertaindrumer · 07-30-2005, 09:17 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) Yeah, when I said people bashing him, i meant people that think it is cool, right now one thread was closed --cause it was clearly created to bash Stapp.

Of course I know he's giving some bad reasons to people dislike him--promises and delays, statements about the Creed's breakup...and I can understand it, but I cant understand when someone bashes Stapp or Creed or even AB just because its cool...its popular..
IT's ridiculous.

The majority of people who bash them bash them for their genre--mainstream rock. I mean, I know I certainly think Rock hasn't been this week in... maybe ever. But I still liek a few bands. A few.

titan9 · 07-30-2005, 10:46 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrummer) Depends. From a musiccal perspective, its still modern rock, and modern rock is considered by many to... suck. I must admit I am getting farther and farther away from modern rock.

Yeah, I'll agree, most of modern rock stinks. But there are still some real good bands. You just have to look past Rock radio to find'em.

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrummer) Indeed, you just about described me before Mark started letting loose all the info. Now I think that Stapp has a whole crapload of problems, and that Tremo has a big mouth. I mean, I understand that people specifically ask him these questions, but he could just say that he enjoyed his time with Creed, wants to move on, and out of respect for all parties involved he doesn't want to get into it. The only thing I really don't mind him commenting on is the Creed Greatesst Hits, because that is a public release and he has all the rights in the world to tell everyone he disagreed with it.

That's pretty much what I've been saying, regarding Mark. I've been wishing for a while now that he would answer more positively when it comes to a question about Creed. Instead of saying how much of a jerk Stapp was, Mark could just say that he doesn't want to comment about the past. Saying that, I think, reflects well on Mark.

I partially agree about Stapp. He DID/DOES have quite a few problems, but I think that he has fixed some of those problems and is working on the remaining problems.

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrummer) Well Mark DID say that Scott was always complaining about the solos, and he also said that "to kick Scott out of the band would have been career suicide", so you never know.

I never said he had to kick Scott out of the band. If he was so upset at Scott about the lack of solos, then Mark could have done something about it. He didn't have to listen to Scott.

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrummer) I wish WU would crash and burn.

Well, I'm kinda torn about that. WU has given me(and many others) some awesome bands and awesome music, but on the other hand, they really stink at promotion. It seems like only their "biggest" bands get promotion, while the less popular bands get nothing. Look at 12 Stones. They released Potter's Field last August and didn't even do that much of a tour in support of it. They just did 5 or 6 dates this summer, but nothing major. Now, instead of touring more, they're working on a new CD. Apparently WU is "disappointed" with the sales for PF. Well, gee, if they don't get any promotion and don't get much radio airplay, then how the heck are they going to sell a bunch of records? It's common sense.

Man, I think I set a new record today for number of agreements. I think I agreed with almost every post posted in this thread today.

Dogstar · 07-30-2005, 11:06 PM

Quote: That's pretty much what I've been saying, regarding Mark. I've been wishing for a while now that he would answer more positively when it comes to a question about Creed. Instead of saying how much of a jerk Stapp was, Mark could just say that he doesn't want to comment about the past.

I think he tried that initially, but the questions would not go away, so I'm guessing he just figured he'd try to put the matter to rest once and for all.

uncertaindrumer · 07-31-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar) I think he tried that initially, but the questions would not go away, so I'm guessing he just figured he'd try to put the matter to rest once and for all.

Meh. You are talking to a guy who was absolutely Mark's bona fide number 1 fan in this little scuffle. You all know I can't stand Stapp and was praising Mark. But even I think he went too far. Who knows though. Maybe Stapp deserved it all. I think he probably did.

And yes, Titan, you must stay away from the radio... it is part of the axis of evil

uncertaindrumer · 07-31-2005, 12:25 AM

Quote: I never said he had to kick Scott out of the band. If he was so upset at Scott about the lack of solos, then Mark could have done something about it. He didn't have to listen to Scott.

What I meant was, he did have to listen to Scott for the most part. What were they gonna do? They could not kick him out so they had no choice. At least that is what it seems like. But who knows--maybe it was all a ploy by Mark to cover up the fact that he couldn't quite shred as fast as he wanted to yet

titan9 · 07-31-2005, 03:46 PM

Lol, that could be it.

I don't completely stay away from Rock radio; I dislike most of what my local stations play, but they do play some good stuff sometimes so I usually listen to that in the car, except for when I have my personal CD player on me. I do completely avoid pop radio, because they NEVER play any good stuff.

Ana4Stapp · 08-01-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote: I never said he had to kick Scott out of the band. If he was so upset at Scott about the lack of solos, then Mark could have done something about it. He didn't have to listen to Scott.

What I meant was, he did have to listen to Scott for the most part. What were they gonna do? They could not kick him out so they had no choice. At least that is what it seems like. But who knows--maybe it was all a ploy by Mark to cover up the fact that he couldn't quite shred as fast as he wanted to yet

Its not my intention to break the heart of the Tremonti's number 01 fans...

but:

it seems too easy to come now and say "I couldnt do anything"..."I didnt have no choice"... "I was upset (about the lack of solos) all the time"...but "Stapps didnt hear"... "Stapp didnt want"...

Its sounds like a childish behaviour...cause the "lack of solos" happened by common consent-- it was a band, wasn it?

Look, Im not defending Stapp in this case,(to tell the truth--after various delays and fake promises of releases his cd, I cant see myself defending Stapp in any case...lol)-- but its getting boring to see Mark to play the part of the victim while Stapp is the bad guy.

Well, this is my point, guys.

Bridge of Clay · 08-01-2005, 12:14 PM

Mark has the guts to say what he thinks and feels. If it was anyone else, it'd be more politically correct... we try to hide things and keep it to ourselves and our closest friends. That may be polite but hypocrat at the same time... he's frank, direct and honest. Can't blame him for that... although most people dislike this kind of attitude.

I think it's good... if more people were that sincere, world could be a better place. Of course, most people can't handle this way of being eiter.

titan9 · 08-01-2005, 02:33 PM

I can honestly say that if I were in Mark's position, I would have been like "you do what you want to do when it comes to singing and writing lyrics, Scott, and I'm going to do what I want to do on the guitar and that means I will solo when I see fit." No way would I let someone else tell me how to play my instrument, not even in an effort to "keep the peace". Maybe Mark was content, at the time, with not soloing in that many songs, and maybe now, looking back on it, he regrets not soloing more. Who knows. All I know is that if Mark felt that way back then, he should have laid down the law and not backed down to Scott. Maybe that would have caused a split much sooner, but what's the point of being in a band if you're not enjoying it and not doing what you want to do? I mean, isn't that the reason Creed broke up? Because Mark and Flip were not enjoying being in the band anymore?

Anyway, it is tough to defend some of what Scott has said, but not all of it. I'm really just trying to stick to defending his music, because I have no idea if everything he says(or most of it) is true.

uncertaindrumer · 08-01-2005, 02:54 PM

To tell the truth, the whole deal sounds like this:

Creed forms and has a good debut album. They get good reviews, decent sales, are touring well, and all is right. Then, they decide they want bigger things, so whether by WU pressure, Stapp pressure, or whatnot, Tremo starts getting more radio friendly and the whol sound softens out. Then, Tremonti realizes that he is now in one of the most hated bands in the U.S., and has lost some of teh credibility he had gaiend for his great axe-work on MOP. So he decides it is time to get back to real rock. Stapp says no, Tremo leaves, and then in his annoyance blames it all on Stapp. So while I think Stapp is quite to blame, Tremonit is not exactly Mr. Perfect either.

But of course I only have incomplete info, so... who knows.

titan9 · 08-01-2005, 03:10 PM

Ya know, that very well could be what happened. That sounds strangely right. Of course, we don't know the whole story so all we can do is assume what happened.

Ana4Stapp · 08-01-2005, 04:24 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by titan9) I can honestly say that if I were in Mark's position, I would have been like "you do what you want to do when it comes to singing and writing lyrics, Scott, and I'm going to do what I want to do on the guitar and that means I will solo when I see fit." No way would I let someone else tell me how to play my instrument, not even in an effort to "keep the peace". Maybe Mark was content, at the time, with not soloing in that many songs, and maybe now, looking back on it, he regrets not soloing more. Who knows. All I know is that if Mark felt that way back then, he should have laid down the law and not backed down to Scott. Maybe that would have caused a split much sooner, but what's the point of being in a band if you're not enjoying it and not doing what you want to do?

Exactly!

This is my question too.

Ana4Stapp · 08-01-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote: Creed forms and has a good debut album. They get good reviews, decent sales, are touring well, and all is right. Then, they decide they want bigger things, so whether by WU pressure, Stapp pressure, or whatnot, Tremo starts getting more radio friendly and the whol sound softens out. Then, Tremonti realizes that he is now in one of the most hated bands in the U.S., and has lost some of teh credibility he had gaiend for his great axe-work on MOP. So he decides it is time to get back to real rock. Stapp says no, Tremo leaves, and then in his annoyance blames it all on Stapp. So while I think Stapp is quite to blame, Tremonit is not exactly Mr. Perfect either.

At last, someone who got the point: there is no victims or bad guys in this case; all of them had their part on Creed's breakup in the same level.

Quote: But of course I only have incomplete info, so... who knows

Yeah... no one knows, but this post seems to got very close to the (possible) true.

Tremontixriffs · 08-01-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) At last, someone who got the point: there is no victims or bad guys in this case; all of them had their part on Creed's breakup in the same level.

Yeah, no one knows, but this post seems to got very close to the (possible) true.

That theory sounds almost perfect, and who is to say that the material on one day remains wouldn't have been the new Creed(minus some lyrical changes by Stapp) cd. Tremo wrote it, and then Stapp seeing it was against the sound of the new record and refused to sing. Then Tremo turns around and asks his buddy Myles , who was seen with Mark at NAMM before breakup of creed, do you want to be in my new band?..This gives mark some leverage in the situation.It was noted according to Stapp that someone outside the band was coming between them, who was that person...Marshall>?,or Myles?.Finally After arguing over creative differences, Scott and Mark part ways...Taking pot shots at each other.I find this interesting especiall seeing as though Stapp and Tremo were long time best friends. Alot of Band breakups happen, but whos to say that in a few years these guys a fews years wiser wake up and get over the baby shit and put out a wicked album...Hey Aerosmith did it, Van Halen(By no means is Stapp even close to being as big of an idiot as D. Lee Roth), Motley Crue, Ect. It happens , not saying it will but if things continue to go the way they have for both Stapp and Alter Bridge then they may reconsider. Maybe they will Try being reasonable to maintain some credibility. Alter Bridge is a worthy effort by mark to put out some good alternative rock, It isn't quite the hit creed was and their album sales and the fanfare isn't exactly there.
The next chapter of this will be told in the coming year or two, depending on how well Alter Bidge's follow up Cd is and whether or not Stapp's solo debut is a flop, only time will tell.

Ana4Stapp · 08-01-2005, 05:53 PM

^^^^
I'm not sure if I got your point: do you mean: that "maybe" they can restore the friendship or bring back Creed?
Cause I definitely dont believe in the last possibility.It has no chance.

07-30-2005, 09:17 PM	#46
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) Yeah, when I said people bashing him, i meant people that think it is cool, right now one thread was closed --cause it was clearly created to bash Stapp. Of course I know he's giving some bad reasons to people dislike him--promises and delays, statements about the Creed's breakup...and I can understand it, but I cant understand when someone bashes Stapp or Creed or even AB just because its cool...its popular.. IT's ridiculous. The majority of people who bash them bash them for their genre--mainstream rock. I mean, I know I certainly think Rock hasn't been this week in... maybe ever. But I still liek a few bands. A few. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

07-30-2005, 10:46 PM	#47
titan9 USER INFO » Status: Bound and Tied Posts: 2,134 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrummer) Depends. From a musiccal perspective, its still modern rock, and modern rock is considered by many to... suck. I must admit I am getting farther and farther away from modern rock. Yeah, I'll agree, most of modern rock stinks. But there are still some real good bands. You just have to look past Rock radio to find'em. Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrummer) Indeed, you just about described me before Mark started letting loose all the info. Now I think that Stapp has a whole crapload of problems, and that Tremo has a big mouth. I mean, I understand that people specifically ask him these questions, but he could just say that he enjoyed his time with Creed, wants to move on, and out of respect for all parties involved he doesn't want to get into it. The only thing I really don't mind him commenting on is the Creed Greatesst Hits, because that is a public release and he has all the rights in the world to tell everyone he disagreed with it. That's pretty much what I've been saying, regarding Mark. I've been wishing for a while now that he would answer more positively when it comes to a question about Creed. Instead of saying how much of a jerk Stapp was, Mark could just say that he doesn't want to comment about the past. Saying that, I think, reflects well on Mark. I partially agree about Stapp. He DID/DOES have quite a few problems, but I think that he has fixed some of those problems and is working on the remaining problems. Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrummer) Well Mark DID say that Scott was always complaining about the solos, and he also said that "to kick Scott out of the band would have been career suicide", so you never know. I never said he had to kick Scott out of the band. If he was so upset at Scott about the lack of solos, then Mark could have done something about it. He didn't have to listen to Scott. Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrummer) I wish WU would crash and burn. Well, I'm kinda torn about that. WU has given me(and many others) some awesome bands and awesome music, but on the other hand, they really stink at promotion. It seems like only their "biggest" bands get promotion, while the less popular bands get nothing. Look at 12 Stones. They released Potter's Field last August and didn't even do that much of a tour in support of it. They just did 5 or 6 dates this summer, but nothing major. Now, instead of touring more, they're working on a new CD. Apparently WU is "disappointed" with the sales for PF. Well, gee, if they don't get any promotion and don't get much radio airplay, then how the heck are they going to sell a bunch of records? It's common sense. Man, I think I set a new record today for number of agreements. I think I agreed with almost every post posted in this thread today. __________________ Visit the 12 Stones Fan Community, 12stonesfans.com! Check out my friend's Music blog by here!

07-30-2005, 11:06 PM	#48
Dogstar Forum Diplomat USER INFO » Status: Young Grown Old Posts: 21,345 Joined: Sep 2002 Currently: Offline	Quote: That's pretty much what I've been saying, regarding Mark. I've been wishing for a while now that he would answer more positively when it comes to a question about Creed. Instead of saying how much of a jerk Stapp was, Mark could just say that he doesn't want to comment about the past. I think he tried that initially, but the questions would not go away, so I'm guessing he just figured he'd try to put the matter to rest once and for all. __________________ Silly monkeys give them thumbs they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive so misguided is a mystery.

07-31-2005, 12:23 AM	#49
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Dogstar) I think he tried that initially, but the questions would not go away, so I'm guessing he just figured he'd try to put the matter to rest once and for all. Meh. You are talking to a guy who was absolutely Mark's bona fide number 1 fan in this little scuffle. You all know I can't stand Stapp and was praising Mark. But even I think he went too far. Who knows though. Maybe Stapp deserved it all. I think he probably did. And yes, Titan, you must stay away from the radio... it is part of the axis of evil __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

07-31-2005, 12:25 AM	#50
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Quote: I never said he had to kick Scott out of the band. If he was so upset at Scott about the lack of solos, then Mark could have done something about it. He didn't have to listen to Scott. What I meant was, he did have to listen to Scott for the most part. What were they gonna do? They could not kick him out so they had no choice. At least that is what it seems like. But who knows--maybe it was all a ploy by Mark to cover up the fact that he couldn't quite shred as fast as he wanted to yet __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

07-31-2005, 03:46 PM	#51
titan9 USER INFO » Status: Bound and Tied Posts: 2,134 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Lol, that could be it. I don't completely stay away from Rock radio; I dislike most of what my local stations play, but they do play some good stuff sometimes so I usually listen to that in the car, except for when I have my personal CD player on me. I do completely avoid pop radio, because they NEVER play any good stuff. __________________ Visit the 12 Stones Fan Community, 12stonesfans.com! Check out my friend's Music blog by here!

08-01-2005, 12:14 PM	#53
Bridge of Clay USER INFO » Status: Tree of Wisdom Posts: 8,025 Joined: Sep 2002 Currently: Offline	Mark has the guts to say what he thinks and feels. If it was anyone else, it'd be more politically correct... we try to hide things and keep it to ourselves and our closest friends. That may be polite but hypocrat at the same time... he's frank, direct and honest. Can't blame him for that... although most people dislike this kind of attitude. I think it's good... if more people were that sincere, world could be a better place. Of course, most people can't handle this way of being eiter. __________________ .:: "If people don't like guitar solos... then they're frikkin' stupid!" - Mark Tremonti ::.

08-01-2005, 02:33 PM	#54
titan9 USER INFO » Status: Bound and Tied Posts: 2,134 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	I can honestly say that if I were in Mark's position, I would have been like "you do what you want to do when it comes to singing and writing lyrics, Scott, and I'm going to do what I want to do on the guitar and that means I will solo when I see fit." No way would I let someone else tell me how to play my instrument, not even in an effort to "keep the peace". Maybe Mark was content, at the time, with not soloing in that many songs, and maybe now, looking back on it, he regrets not soloing more. Who knows. All I know is that if Mark felt that way back then, he should have laid down the law and not backed down to Scott. Maybe that would have caused a split much sooner, but what's the point of being in a band if you're not enjoying it and not doing what you want to do? I mean, isn't that the reason Creed broke up? Because Mark and Flip were not enjoying being in the band anymore? Anyway, it is tough to defend some of what Scott has said, but not all of it. I'm really just trying to stick to defending his music, because I have no idea if everything he says(or most of it) is true. __________________ Visit the 12 Stones Fan Community, 12stonesfans.com! Check out my friend's Music blog by here!

08-01-2005, 02:54 PM	#55
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	To tell the truth, the whole deal sounds like this: Creed forms and has a good debut album. They get good reviews, decent sales, are touring well, and all is right. Then, they decide they want bigger things, so whether by WU pressure, Stapp pressure, or whatnot, Tremo starts getting more radio friendly and the whol sound softens out. Then, Tremonti realizes that he is now in one of the most hated bands in the U.S., and has lost some of teh credibility he had gaiend for his great axe-work on MOP. So he decides it is time to get back to real rock. Stapp says no, Tremo leaves, and then in his annoyance blames it all on Stapp. So while I think Stapp is quite to blame, Tremonit is not exactly Mr. Perfect either. But of course I only have incomplete info, so... who knows. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.

08-01-2005, 03:10 PM	#56
titan9 USER INFO » Status: Bound and Tied Posts: 2,134 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Ya know, that very well could be what happened. That sounds strangely right. Of course, we don't know the whole story so all we can do is assume what happened. __________________ Visit the 12 Stones Fan Community, 12stonesfans.com! Check out my friend's Music blog by here!

08-01-2005, 05:24 PM	#59
Tremontixriffs USER INFO » Status: Misconception Posts: 88 Joined: Jul 2005 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp) At last, someone who got the point: there is no victims or bad guys in this case; all of them had their part on Creed's breakup in the same level. Yeah, no one knows, but this post seems to got very close to the (possible) true. That theory sounds almost perfect, and who is to say that the material on one day remains wouldn't have been the new Creed(minus some lyrical changes by Stapp) cd. Tremo wrote it, and then Stapp seeing it was against the sound of the new record and refused to sing. Then Tremo turns around and asks his buddy Myles , who was seen with Mark at NAMM before breakup of creed, do you want to be in my new band?..This gives mark some leverage in the situation.It was noted according to Stapp that someone outside the band was coming between them, who was that person...Marshall>?,or Myles?.Finally After arguing over creative differences, Scott and Mark part ways...Taking pot shots at each other.I find this interesting especiall seeing as though Stapp and Tremo were long time best friends. Alot of Band breakups happen, but whos to say that in a few years these guys a fews years wiser wake up and get over the baby shit and put out a wicked album...Hey Aerosmith did it, Van Halen(By no means is Stapp even close to being as big of an idiot as D. Lee Roth), Motley Crue, Ect. It happens , not saying it will but if things continue to go the way they have for both Stapp and Alter Bridge then they may reconsider. Maybe they will Try being reasonable to maintain some credibility. Alter Bridge is a worthy effort by mark to put out some good alternative rock, It isn't quite the hit creed was and their album sales and the fanfare isn't exactly there. The next chapter of this will be told in the coming year or two, depending on how well Alter Bidge's follow up Cd is and whether or not Stapp's solo debut is a flop, only time will tell.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

User Name		Remember Me?
Password