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Old 01-02-2005, 06:19 PM   #38
aussiecreeder
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salvation is by faith although james rightly clarifies that if there are no works then there is no salvation. however it is a VERY important distinction that works do NOT save a person.

None [of them] can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: (For the redemption of their soul [is] precious, and it ceaseth for ever

Psalms 49:7-8
*A Song of degrees for Solomon.* Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh [but] in vain. [It is] vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: [for] so he giveth his beloved sleep.

Psalms 127:1-2
I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all [is] vanity and vexation of spirit.

Ecclesiastes 1:14
Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

Isaiah 43:26
I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee.

Isaiah 57:12
But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah 64:6
They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.

Ezekiel 7:19
Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his [righteousness] in the day that he sinneth. When I shall say to the righteous, [that] he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; [If] the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live. Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.

Ezekiel 33:12-19
O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

Daniel 9:18
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

If someone is saved by works then there is no need for grace. Furthermore what would be the point of Jesus dying on the cross if we can save ourselves. Jesus then ceases to be the saviour and we become the saviour becaues we are doing the work and becoming acceptable to God. Don't you think its a little arrogant to take this stance? Also Hebrews 11 documents great men and women of faith such as Abraham and Noah and repeatedly saids "by faith they were saved" when they obeyed. Their obedience was the proof of their faith but its not what saved them.

There is no problem in Jesus being baptized because baptism does not save but is a public profession of faith and Jesus obeyed God and humbled himself to John the Baptist by immersing himself in that river.
__________________
She never told a lie,
Well, might of told a lie.
But never lived one.
Didn’t have a life.
Didn’t have a life.
But surely saved one.
Alright, now it’s time for us to let you go.

Tool
Wings for Marie
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