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Old 12-18-2009, 06:47 PM   #7
Faithwalker012
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere There's Signs

Alright then, so what do we say or what can we say about the rapture? What is it built upon? Well, most of what it's built upon and the verses I always thought described it of course come from 1st Thessalonians. But you know, the problem that you have when you let man interpret scripture for you and just take his word for it is you can miss the whole boat. Why? Well, when man either deliberately or ignorantly takes certain sections of scripture out of the context it's written and given in and uses it to try to prove something they believe to be true, then you have people who are so lost and confused and mislead, that they would go running up to Antichrist when they saw him, because based on what they've been taught, they'll think it's Jesus!

Let's take a look at 1st Thessalonians 4, and the verses used to supposedly confirm a rapture.

1st Thess 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive, and remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Well that sounds great, and it sounds like a rapture if you just read those 2 verses and you've been taught your whole life that yep, that's the rapture being described. But you must understand a few things. You must first understand what the subject matter being discussed really is, and we're going to that in a minute. But the subject matter is not a "rapture" and it's not even so much our gathering back to Christ as it is concerning those believers who have already passed on from the flesh.

But the other thing is when does Jesus Christ return? What is the trump of God? Well there are 7 trumps in the book of Revelation, as well as 7 seals and 7 vials. When does Jesus Christ return? He returns at the 7th. When does Antichrist arrive? Antichrist arrives at the 6th trump. So, which comes first, 6 or 7? 6 does naturally, and when Christ returns and there's a gathering back to Him at the 7th, it's after Antichrist has already been here. I'll try to confirm that for you too, even in the book of 2nd Thessalonians, when Paul said don't be deceived about when we gather back to Christ. He makes it so specific that a child can understand it, if they're paying attention. Yet so many people want to fly away at the first sign or thought of trouble.

Let's stay with 1st Thessalonians 4 and let's see what the subject is and where it starts. The first 12 verses of the chapter are exhortation and instruction on living and walking as a Christian in being an example, to both nonbelievers and each other.

But then in verse 13 the subject changes and it stays on that same subject through the end of the chapter.

1 Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

You see, for those who especially don't believe in life after death, they have no hope. One trip through life, and when you're done with it, that's it, you're just done. There is a lot of sorrow in that, though many of them when they are alive say it doesn't bother them. But certainly, they have no hope.

4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also
sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
You know, I guess the key question or point here is when do you believe God will bring them with Him. You see, there are some who believe that at the rapture, or at this trump, the graves will open up and the dead in Christ will ascend into the air to be with God. That's a very, very unbiblical thing. You see, to believe that, you would have to ignore or be ignorant or Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 where it says that immediately upon death, when you take that last breath and your heart beats one last time, when there's no more brain activity and your flesh body has expired, then instantly the spirit returns to the Father who gave it. You would have to be ignorant of 2 Corinthians 5:8 where it says We are confident and willing to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. You would quite frankly have to be ignorant of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus of Luke 16 taught by Jesus Christ, where Lazarus died and was instantly taken to "Abraham's Bosom"... Abraham's Bosom was a teaching or belief of the Pharisees that basically was heaven or where the dead went. When a person died they said, "this day he sits in Abraham's bosom". But the thing too is even the rich man when he died, he was in the same basic location, but there was a gulf between that no one could cross. But they were both in the afterlife, in heaven if you will, with God. Different sides of heaven to be sure... one side for those who overcame and one for those who did not, and both still waiting for Judgment Day like everyone else. But they're in heaven, not buried in the ground.

4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Now I suppose if you're not careful here it can get a bit confusing. Shall not prevent them which are asleep means those who are alive won't come or go to God before those which are asleep. Why? Well, obviously they are already there. I don't know if you've ever been with someone at their death, at the very moment. I have not. But I was talking with a guy a few weeks back who said he was there at the moment his mother died and that he could just tell, couldn't really explain it, but he could just tell from her face that at the moment she died, something, that being her soul, left her body... at that very moment. So again, don't go thinking that those who die, saved/unsaved, believer or nonbeliever are buried and that they're still in that decaying flesh body, decaying over time anyway and are in the ground. They're not. They are with the Father, period. Some who did not overcome aren't in very good shape. But upon death God calls all souls back to Him where they all wait on one side of that gulf in Luke 16 or another, anticipating Judgment Day.

Now we get back to the "rapture verses". It's still the same subject concerning the dead.

4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

Why would the dead rise first? Because again, they have already risen. Let there be no great mystery in that. Go back to verse 14 if you have to where it says if you believe Jesus died and rose again and ask yourself where Jesus is. He's in heaven. Where then are the dead in Christ at this moment? They are in heaven also. You have to pull the entire Word of God together as best you can, and you have to be aware of what's been talked about and who is being addressed. It could get confusing if you let your mind wander, but don't let that happen. Stay focused. What was Paul's point? The point was that you sorrow not about where the dead in Christ are.

4:17 Then we which are alive, and remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Now, a few things here. First of all, does that say it will happen at "any moment"? No, it does not. It says it happens at the moment Christ descends at that particular trump. It only happens one time. There's only one trump out of the 7 in which Jesus returns, and that's the last trump. So guess when we gather back to Christ? At the last trump. But guess what happens before then? Satan comes to play his role of Antichrist to see who he can deceive, which will be most of the world. But there is no gathering back to Christ until after that happens.

I'll give confirmation of that in my next post.

Jason
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